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Hannibal

championship players

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A debate i was having with my friend today, How many players in the currant squad would make it into a team in the top half of the Championship? I said Forster, Askou, Russell, Hoolahan (I know many people will scream Holt but being honest with myself i think he is at the right level) He being an Arsenal fan who likes to watch the odd game at Norwich said only Askou which i thought was a tad harsh but he is supposedly unbias

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I think Forster and Russell could just about make it. Askou is still worryingly slow and it is still early to judge his true ability. Hoolahan is such an enigma, he is skilled enough to make it to the top level, but he is very slight and not particularly fast. I know there are other players who are small and not very strong, but they really have to have that extra level of skill to make it.

I agree with you regarding Holt, although I really hope he goes on to prove us both wrong with Norwich next year.

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Askou does not have Championship level pace or distribution. If he could be a specialist defensive header of the ball then yes, he could even be lower Premiership level.

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With regards to the Askou debate.. Defending isn''t about bags of pace! Look at some of the best centre backs over the years! Maldini wasn''t quick... Tony Adams and Martin Keown....

And for Championship level, saying a lack of pace makes you useless is silly... Chris Morgan has survived in an alright Sheffield United team for a while now and correct me if I am wrong.. But he ain''t Usain Bolt....

Hoolahan would cope.. as would Drury, has done before and still would... Russell in the holding role YES.. previous positions... not so much...

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I think Doc looks a better player when he plays with Askou. Just look at the cup game when we lost 3-1. Doc played with Nelson, we lost, he looked rubbish. First game of the Season Doc and Nelson again need i say more? Nelson also looks a better player when playing with Askou rather than Doc though to be fair to him.

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[quote user="The Duke"]

I think Doc looks a better player when he plays with Askou. Just look at the cup game when we lost 3-1. Doc played with Nelson, we lost, he looked rubbish. First game of the Season Doc and Nelson again need i say more? Nelson also looks a better player when playing with Askou rather than Doc though to be fair to him.

[/quote]Don''t forget the younger players. Korey Smith has not looked out of place in his first full season at championship level he could and should get significantly better over the next couple of seasons. You''d hope that at least a couple of the other youngsters will be able with time to make the step up.

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Mistakes in my post. 1. It was not intended as a reply to The Duke''s post2. I meant that Korey Smith has not looked out of place at league 1 level not championship. Have had too much caffeine to concentrate today. 

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I think this is actually a hard question.Essentially if this team wins promotion they all deserve a shot at Championship level because they have proven themselves better than league one as a team.As individuals it surprises me that no one has mentioned Drury. There are obvious others such as Doherty, Russell and Hoolahan who we have seen already perform at Championship level. Holt has never played there so it will be interesting to see if he cuts it. Hughes I think has what it takes as does Smith and potentially Adeyemi. Askou is not as slow as some say and his distribution is certainly no worse than captain perfect Malky''s was. Forster is still young and again has the potential to be a great keeper at least at Champs level. Same goes for Martin really although we have seen from his early days that he can cut it and given a chance probably still would. Spillane is another who we have seen glimpses of at that level who I think again has the potential and has shown us glimpses of class. He''s anotherone that apparently has no pace but has managed to outrun quite a few of the players he has come up against so far. Daley could do it if he can harness that pace and add to it the confidence of a couple of finishes to get him going.Lappin is ok - he can at least do a job there, and although some people will slate me for it so can Semi - I don''t think he is half as bad as some people make out and I would also like to see him given a go as a right winger. MacDonald is one that splits me - people say that he needs more time, he is 23 now and I wonder how much time he will be given ahead of say Daley who has potential but is 18. Theo - need I say?!!McVeigh is past it at that level now as is Cureton. I also think Nelson would struggle.I won''t be drawn on Gill or Tudor Jones as I havn''t seen enough of them yet and the same goes for MacNamee and R. Martin - that is if they become permanent.

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askou no pace they said that about malky he is a very good centre back one of our players of the season we miss him when he is not there otbc

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Has anyone mentioned Drury, who certainly played in the Premiership? In his present form he could play there.Or Hughes?One of the problems is in trying to see a players contribution in isolation. Players who may have struggled in our poor teams in the Championship may actually perform better if they have good players around them. You don''t play a slick passing game unless there are other team players able to do it. So far we have been confront by slow Div 1 cloggers, but we surely played well against Leeds.I wouldn''t even rule out the potential of  Martin (C), who has taken chances well and also worked hard to create goals - Saturday last, nor that of Askou - it depends who he is playing with.I would rule out McV and Curo for certain. They may have been up to it, but sadly are no longer.

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I think Askou would definately make the team.  Although he is not quick he has all the attributes a defender needs and like someone else said, there are lots of world class defenders without bags of pace.  Drury also definately would, he has done before and he was also very good for us in the premiership, I always think people are a little unfair with Drury.  Russel in the holding role but anywhere else he is a definate no, like he has proved before.  I think Korey Smith will turn out to be a great player but if we went up next year he might struggle at first, likewise with Adeyemi.  I do though think this is definately Holt''s and Hoolahan''s level.  Hoolahan showed us last year that despite being in a different position he is just not quite good enough.  And for Holt, he has scored goals everywhere he has been but there is a reason he has never made it at a higher level.

If we did go up next year we would require a lot of players to be brought.

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Holt has played at Championship level. With Sheffield Wednesday and on loan with Blackpool. Granted, he didn''t get many games but he has been there!

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The initial question asked of Askou was not just his pace, but his distribution (which is not great).There may be lots of good defenders without pace, but a centre back without pace OR distribution is not going to be in a top championship team. If Askou works on his passing then he could easily cope a league up.

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[quote user="Salopian"]Has anyone mentioned Drury, who certainly played in the Premiership? In his present form he could play there.Or Hughes?

One of the problems is in trying to see a players contribution in isolation. Players who may have struggled in our poor teams in the Championship may actually perform better if they have good players around them. You don''t play a slick passing game unless there are other team players able to do it. So far we have been confront by slow Div 1 cloggers, but we surely played well against Leeds.

I wouldn''t even rule out the potential of  Martin (C), who has taken chances well and also worked hard to create goals - Saturday last, nor that of Askou - it depends who he is playing with.

I would rule out McV and Curo for certain. They may have been up to it, but sadly are no longer.
[/quote]

I Was Just Thinking The Same Thing. Drury Would Have To Be Added To That List!

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My god. If we have learnt anything this season its this: A real team isnt based on individuals. Lambert has found unity. He has pretty much the same players he started with. True he has his favourites but he sticks by every player in the squad. This is how he wins games.

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[quote user="Mook"]The initial question asked of Askou was not just his pace, but his distribution (which is not great).There may be lots of good defenders without pace, but a centre back without pace OR distribution is not going to be in a top championship team. If Askou works on his passing then he could easily cope a league up.[/quote]Sorry but a defenders first job is defending - like I said before, people seem to remember Malky with this kind of ''he was a great player'' mentality but the truth is he wasn''t quick, nor was his distribution good but what he was able to do was win the ball and be a bugger to get past not to mention win everything in the air. Fleming was the player that built passing up from the back.Askou is the same, he is not as slow as Malky was when he left mind you. He is the ball winner and as for his distribution - he is happy to push forward and I think isn''t that bad, at least he looks to try and pass it to feet, Malky just used to launch it forward hoping to find Iwan or someone like MacKenzie to bomb onto it. I actually think its laughable really. I sat there for season after season watching Malky and the reason he was great is that he was like a wall, he would equalise any physical threat a team may have in their striking department, he could defend a good/dangerous cross and positionaly was sound. However his lack of pace is one reason we tended to play so deep. He was a great player but when you look at Askou its amazing how many attributes they share, not sure you could claim Askou couldnt cut it as well as Malky did - and Malky was defenitely not a Premiership class defender.

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[quote user="Thecanaryfan"]My god. If we have learnt anything this season its this: A real team isnt based on individuals. Lambert has found unity. He has pretty much the same players he started with. True he has his favourites but he sticks by every player in the squad. This is how he wins games.[/quote]

 

Totally agree its the sum of the team not individuals, add on a decent manager and backroom staff and they can get more out of average players.

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The Original post was nothing about potential to play Championship level or even about who could play in the Championship. The original question was how many of are currant squad would make it into a top half of the table championship team. Going by a club of similar size to us take a look at Notts Forests team from Sat and tell me how many of our players would get in their first team?? now be honest for me its 2 at most, mainly cause i dont know much about Wilson or Majewski!

Nottm Forest

  • 01 Camp
  • 03 Shorey
  • 05 Morgan
  • 06 Wilson
  • 16 Gunter
  • 07 Anderson (McCleary 70)
  • 15 Cohen yellow card
  • 18 McKenna
  • 28 Majewski (Tyson 60)
  • 10 Earnshaw
  • 23 Blackstock (Adebola 66)

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[quote user="The Duke"]The Original post was nothing about potential to play Championship level or even about who could play in the Championship. The original question was how many of are currant squad would make it into a top half of the table championship team. Going by a club of similar size to us take a look at Notts Forests team from Sat and tell me how many of our players would get in their first team?? now be honest for me its 2 at most, mainly cause i dont know much about Wilson or Majewski!

Nottm Forest

  • 01 Camp
  • 03 Shorey
  • 05 Morgan
  • 06 Wilson
  • 16 Gunter
  • 07 Anderson (McCleary 70)
  • 15 Cohen yellow card
  • 18 McKenna
  • 28 Majewski (Tyson 60)
  • 10 Earnshaw
  • 23 Blackstock (Adebola 66)
[/quote]Going by that you might as well pick out Middlesborough and Newcastle and compare . . . . . This was not the Nottingham (not Nots) Forrest team that got promotion and played out most of their first season back in the champs.I think it was a big misstake not to get Camp when we had the chance - however - how much did Earnshaw cost them? Shorey is on loan from the premiership (Aston Villa) and some of the others are ok but not miles better than what we have. They have no target man for example and play two smallish quick players up front. Holt wouldn''t get in their team because of his ''previous'' with them. Its a bit of a strange comparison. Choose a mid-table club and I think the answer would be different. Nottingham Forrest are pushing for promotion and have money to spend having been linked with a host of other premiership team fringe players.

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="The Duke"]The Original post was nothing about potential to play Championship level or even about who could play in the Championship. The original question was how many of are currant squad would make it into a top half of the table championship team. Going by a club of similar size to us take a look at Notts Forests team from Sat and tell me how many of our players would get in their first team?? now be honest for me its 2 at most, mainly cause i dont know much about Wilson or Majewski!

Nottm Forest

  • 01 Camp

  • 03 Shorey

  • 05 Morgan

  • 06 Wilson

  • 16 Gunter

  • 07 Anderson (McCleary 70)

  • 15 Cohen yellow card

  • 18 McKenna

  • 28 Majewski (Tyson 60)

  • 10 Earnshaw

  • 23 Blackstock (Adebola 66)


[/quote]

Going by that you might as well pick out Middlesborough and Newcastle and compare . . . . . This was not the Nottingham (not Nots) Forrest team that got promotion and played out most of their first season back in the champs.

I think it was a big misstake not to get Camp when we had the chance - however - how much did Earnshaw cost them? Shorey is on loan from the premiership (Aston Villa) and some of the others are ok but not miles better than what we have. They have no target man for example and play two smallish quick players up front. Holt wouldn''t get in their team because of his ''previous'' with them. Its a bit of a strange comparison. Choose a mid-table club and I think the answer would be different. Nottingham Forrest are pushing for promotion and have money to spend having been linked with a host of other premiership team fringe players.

[/quote]

I chose Forest because they are a club of compareable stature to us. In terms of ground size and Fan base they are about the level we should be. Never the less i take your point so i have chosen Reading currently 18th in the Champ and only 3 points of the drop zone. Far from what you would call Mid table

  • 01 Federici

  • 16 Ingimarsson

  • 24 Bertrand

  • 26 Pearce

  • 04 Cisse

  • 07 Tabb

  • 08 Matejovsky

  • 11 McAnuff

  • 25 Sigurdsson (Gunnarsson 65)

  • 18 Church (Kebe 23)

  • 23 Rasiak

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In all honesty... Most of our first 11 are good enough to make it as a collective team... The jump in class is high to the champ but i think this norwich side with the manager they have got is easily good enough for the champ...

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I agree that it is about the team, rather than individual players.

GK: I would rate Forster similar to Marshall and Rudd has potential.

CB: Doc and Askou could do a job in the CCC, Spillane maybe, but I can''t see Nelson there so another CB would be needed.

FB/WB: Drury yes, Semmy maybe (as WB). Need to see more of others.

MF: Russell as holding player, Smith, Lappin and Hughes, yes. Hoolahan if  Lambert stays with the diamond. Need to see more of Adeyemi, Gill and OTJ (particularly in the holding role). 

S: Holt yes, though he wouldn''t score as many. C. Martin if he can continue his present form and up his work-rate.  McDonald & Daley as impact players and perhaps more if they continue to develop.

The other key question is how the other young players currently on the fringe will continue to develop.

 

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