PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."]The lunatics have taken over the asylum Bly.....They''ve swallowed the medicine cynically fed to them for the past decade or so and now they believe it themselves.... or they supported a different team back than and so don''t really know the facts........[/quote]The poster on this thread who doesn''t know "the facts" is the one so woefully ignorant of the club''s history (or careless of the truth) that they claimed we had "a collection" of promotions under Chase''s leadership when we only had one. And that in a season when he took over part-way through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."]The lunatics have taken over the asylum Bly.....They''ve swallowed the medicine cynically fed to them for the past decade or so and now they believe it themselves.... or they supported a different team back than and so don''t really know the facts........Robert Chase created the "big" club the sycophants now claim to support.... yet they are blind to the fact that Delia''s "little old Norwich" has come into being while they all watched passively........Shame on them........[/quote]Here we go, same old same old.Just because everyone remembers things differently to you it makes them all wrong. The fact that you actually remember things that didn''t happen such as the multiple promotions suggests that perhaps nearly everyone else is actually remembering more detail.The other thing is that whilst this topic was originally about reflecting on the Chase ere - there are some that have sought to turn this into another "Chase was better than Delia is" argument in which no one is allowed to air an opinion counter to it.I would probably agree that we do look back on Chase more negatively than we should - especially taking into account what has happened since which isn''t all his making and yet we proportion blame to him.For me Cluck, I divide this latest era into two halves because it makes a little more sense to me, to do so. We have the emediate post Chase scene up until and including the season in the premiership. And then we have what has happened since.Initially the board as it was then had a plan to get the club back up to being competetive and 1st Division level because in all fairness we were struggling to even manage that. Football is no exact science but you cannot argue against that up until the Premiership season they were a success. Limited budgets, small squads and yet they managed to get the best out of what we had as a club. There are too many differentials for it to be claimed to be luck. The problem was that once we got to the premiership we lost direction, the board didnt have the ability to punch its weight at that level and then tried to make up for the misstakes made that season by following up with spending high on wages and low on transfer fees with Worthington which failed because we were paying good money for dross, Grant was given a massive fund but did not have the experience or expertise to fully utalise it, Roeder who started well but was more pop than fizzle and went the way of the weasle.For me the Chase reign could be seen as rather similar in terms of success and failures in that he started well and then slipped down the slope of failure.The main difference between the two though is that Chase built his own slope. And for me it is that simple. Delia and Mike took over an already underperforming and failing club in the midst of financial difficulty and have achieved, even if limited, some success for doing so. Chase took over a club and took it within perhaps a season or two of becoming a real premiership force to contend with. And yet at the height of this clubs success he started to mess with the foundations, destabalising the structure. Not only that but as it started to crumble it appears that he did little to prevent it and instead only aided it by selling players and not allowing even half-decent replacements. I am not trying to be overly critical but Windass has never been half the player that Sutton has been other than in size!So whilst our memories of Chase most probably are tainted by what has happened since I doubt whether it is unjustly so or infact due to any ''brainwashing'' programmes that the club has organised since. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
In Dubious Battle 0 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] [/quote]Not really Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [/quote]PRETTY........Unlikely.CLEVER........Your rants hardly suggest that.DAMNED........Certainly![8-|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="crafty canary"]Thank goodness for Geoff Watling saving the club even though the cook always sems to be given the credit.[/quote]So, apart from buying Chase''s shares and then selling them on to D&M who then loaned the club £1m, what exactly did Geoffrey Watling do to "save the club"?[/quote]G. Watling RIP. provided loan finance and a leagcy (gift to NCFC Plc) of £1.5m. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blahblahblah 2 Posted December 15, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] [/quote]First one in over 1600 posts, and that''s just on this username - I think we can safely put this one down to monkeys and typewriters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted December 16, 2009 [quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] [/quote]First one in over 1600 posts, and that''s just on this username - I think we can safely put this one down to monkeys and typewriters.[/quote]Oh my... here comes Mr. Popular.......Why don''t you go pick on someone your own size Blubblub... that is if there is anyone in existence less relevant than you...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted December 16, 2009 [quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]G. Watling RIP. provided loan finance and a leagcy (gift to NCFC Plc) of £1.5m.[/quote]Thanks for that Tangy. Now, the important bit, was the whole amount (£1.5m) loaned to the club after he bought Chases shares and before he sold them to D&M or was this figure made up of several loans over the period when he was chairman and later, president? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 0 Posted December 17, 2009 [quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] [/quote]First one in over 1600 posts, and that''s just on this username - I think we can safely put this one down to monkeys and typewriters.[/quote]Oh my... here comes Mr. Popular.......Why don''t you go pick on someone your own size Blubblub... that is if there is anyone in existence less relevant than you......[/quote]Please alter your poster name to: Conversation Killer Cluck. What was a good conversation about how we look back at things has been killed by overbearing personal vendetta''s - nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jelltex 0 Posted December 18, 2009 Having supported the club through the 70s and beyond, what annoys me is this revisionist view of the Chase era.That there were good days cannot be denied, but the end when it came was bad and ugly, horse on Carrow Road and supporters boycotting games.I believe now, and believed at the time, that the success we had was despite of Chase rather than because of him. I have yet to see an answer as to where all the money from those first Prem years and the run in Europe went. Players sold over and over again until there was no one else any other team wanted.Finance in football now is more difficult and complicated so that a local businessman would be out of his depth; maybe Chase was the first of these to struggle. I remember failure to publish the club accounts, promises of being floated on the stock exchange, broken promises to managers and being sent cuttings from daily newspapers by him to those who wrote in the old Pink Un Soapbox. That he fooled Fleet Streets best might explain why people are blinded by 15 years of time passing.That this has descended into a Chase vs Delia argument is sad. I feel that people are cherrypicking what they chose to remember from those days. Given a choice I would have chosen financial stability and mid-table animosity rather than a singular run in Europe and financial ruin. Does that make me odd or just a realist.I hate to see the club in the 3rd division, which is what it is, we can climb out of it and be a better club, with or without Delia, but this bickering amongst supports about who owns the past serves no purpose.Delia or Fat Bob? I''d chose neither just stability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Levi Stubbs 0 Posted December 18, 2009 [quote user="Lord Flashheart"]My thoughts on Chase were summed up wonderfully by Kevin Baldwin in his book The Second Coming:He was condemned by his own criteria for success. His famous three-stage plan was as follows: 1) to secure the financial position of the club; 2) to complete a new ground with fine facilities; 3) to win something. The third part of this was later revised, when Chase said that success for Norwich would simply be to remain in the top division, but perhaps that is beside the point. After all, we could even manage to do that - and in any case, he left the club somewhere between stages 0 and 1.In fact, we are worryingly close to zero. When the club accounts were published in March, they tore away the last tattered shreds of his credibility and left him utterly exposed. He wasn''t a the shrewd, careful businessman that he pretended to be; the club is now millions of pounds in debt.Not only has all the money received for player like Sutton, Fox, Ekoku and Robins disappeared, along with that from the Premiership and European campaign, but millions on top of that have been spent. But what has it been spent on? It hasn''t gone on expensive replacements on the pitch. Not has it gone on inflated wages; after all, there have been precious few win bonuses paid out in the last two seasons. Some money has been spent on the ground, but insurance money and a large grant from the Football Trust mean that we cannot attribute our present plight to this alone.Far too much money has been spent on unnecessary things, such as Radio Canary, new gates to the car park, and the flour mill next to the ground - the latter bought after a promise by Chase that capital expenditure would be ''put on the back burner''.A fortune was spent on the new training ground at Colney, and very impressive it is too - but even here, a vital point was missed. Instead of appreciating what was being achieved on the pitch in the Premiership and in Europe, and putting resources into continuing the success, Chase cast an envious eye at other clubs'' facilities. He argued that a plush training centre would attract good youth players - but surely the best way to do this is to have a successful first team. It was as if Chase distrusted players. Spending money on them was an unacceptable risk.On top of all this, Chase cannot claim much credit for the team’s performances during his reign. It is now clear that success was achieved in spit of his policies, not because of them. We cannot even applaud his judgement in appointing Mike Walker and Martin O’Neill to manage the team, for it now appears that he wanted to appoint others (Phil Neal and Gary Megson) before the rest of the board objected. And when faced with a strong, successful manager, he effectively nudged him out of the door by failing to give him the backing he wanted. He was extraordinarily lucky for a long time. However, if you keep pushing Lady Luck, she will eventually respond with a most unladylike knee in the balls.--So, too harsh on Chase? Ask me another one. [:S][/quote]I don''t usually agree with much you say Lord,but on this subject you have it to a ''T''! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grantroederdisaster 0 Posted December 18, 2009 Chases policy of buying cheap, developing young players then selling for profit, while investing in land and improving facilities worked for a number of years till Wlaker got fed up and left. After that it was a disaster and he wasn''t the financial wizard he seemed to be but at least Chase eventually got out!In recent years we have benefited from his land deals, just a shame that Chases policies which led to relegation and near financil ruin coincided with the Premierships money explosion in the mid 90''s. This put us years behind teams in the Premiership and led to the very barren years from 1995 to about 2001. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted December 18, 2009 [quote user="chicken"][quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Cluck the Purist...."][quote user="BigFish"][quote user="Cluck the Purist"] How quickly the success he brought us was forgotten though. Nobody is perfect but it was an ungrateful lynching by any other name and when that was allowed to happen the whole ethos of the club changed.Personally I feel the club has never recovered from what happened to Robert Chase and it''s mentality has slipped into over expectance and ideas way above it''s station.Robert Chase made NCFC into something it never was..... and never will be again without another man like him.[/quote]Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Cluck says something that makes sense![/quote]Pretty damned clever aren''t I?....... [Y] [/quote]First one in over 1600 posts, and that''s just on this username - I think we can safely put this one down to monkeys and typewriters.[/quote]Oh my... here comes Mr. Popular.......Why don''t you go pick on someone your own size Blubblub... that is if there is anyone in existence less relevant than you......[/quote]Please alter your poster name to: Conversation Killer Cluck. What was a good conversation about how we look back at things has been killed by overbearing personal vendetta''s - nice.[/quote]No vendetta for me I can assure you.......Check out who actually has the vendetta against who. Nice try but a sadly misplaced effort as usual from you luvvie........ [N] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barclay hero 0 Posted December 18, 2009 Crafty you shoot down your own argument here"His big (and really stupid) mistake was to short term finance everything so that relegation would bring us to the brink"....."Thanks to his foresight, the Stowmarket 2 had land to sell that kept the club afloat"Dont you think that the Stowmarket 2 wouldnt have had to ''sell land to keep the club afloat'' if Chase hadnt taken it to the brink?Although it was our most succssful period, the club was successful in SPITE of Chase - not because of him. I''m not the biggest fan of DS but I dont think shes the worst this club has had. What will be interesting will be to see what happens to the club when she goes - will we have a Junior Clucklet on this board one day pining for the ''good old days when Delia was involved''? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Starr 519 Posted December 19, 2009 Football 15 years ago is nothing like football is today! Given the same situation now with Chase in charge, there is not a chance we''d reach europe, and we would certainly never be top of the prem come december 25th. Sorry but Chase was a sign of the times, and our fall from grace was equally a sign of the times... a time in the mid-90s when other clubs were able to buy our premiere league ticket (and indeed the premiere league title in Blackburns case). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyCanary 0 Posted February 20, 2010 Anyone who questions what Geoffrey Watling did for the club is either daft, or naive. And he left much more for the club than the £1.5m after his passing. Not everything is publicised.He also has left a charity:http://www.geoffreywatling.org.uk/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gshub 0 Posted February 21, 2010 At least under Robert chase years we hadtop flight football in Europe in Fa cup leaguecup success and beat top 6 clubs regulayand fans that got behined their team ,manager not keep slagging everyoneoff.or maybe its just my age it was all just a dream thats turned into a nightmere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
. 0 Posted February 22, 2010 Robert Chase should be hailed for the great club man he was.......The way he has been castigated by this present flossy regime is disgusting in so many ways.... but thankfully the memories of what he gave us cannot be lied about or "spun" in order to discredit him.Good old Bob. Some of us never fell for the "Delia myth" and would have you back at CR any day you chose..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
