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Murphy and the Bricks

Chris Martin

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The way the front 3 work (and why I don''t think it works as well with cody thus far) is that Holt likes to search for the ball similar to how wayne rooney does in a way, hoolahan comes in even deeper and martin is on the last defender or coming out left... If martin ran round like holt did we wouldn''t have the sharp point of attack that i think martin is. He''s actually a clever player who doesn''t get the credit his game play deserves... 10 goals this season already, assists he''s probably on 10 as well... I am sure defenders dread playing against our front 3 and chris is a key element of that. Super Chrissy Martin.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="king canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Superflash"]He''s only going to get better with time. His loan spell at Luton certainly did him the world of good and he is almost a dead cert for 20 goals this season at least. Sure, he''s not gonig to have play blinder every game. But he''s still been an important player for us this season so far and will no doubt become even more important as the season''s conclusion arrives.[/quote]

I actually think, unless he starts putting more into games and/or scoring more goals, he could be someone who could let us down (in terms of our promotion campaign). And by "let us down" I just mean...not good enough to do what we need.

But as I said earlier, and several times before, he''s a talented player. So it''s up to him to prove himself (which he''s still yet to do).

 

[/quote]Dont see how he has let us down. He may not chase all the time but we need someone to remain in the middle to give us options.[/quote]

To be fair I said "could let us down"

I''ve said it earlier on in the season, he is someone who I could see not being good enough across a full season for a team chasing promotion.

[/quote]Potentially anybody ''could'' let us down. Holt could forget where the goal is. Wes could convert to Buddism and decide he needs to move to Tibet. Lambert could go a bti crazy and play Luke Daley in goal. Bit unfair to criticise based on what someone ''could'' do.Now whether he will be good enough across a season is an interesting question, but one that cant be answered til May really. For me he has been good enough so far and I see no reason why he wont be for longer.

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I find it rather bemusing some posters picking out certain players for critisism after Saturdays 1st defeat how many games 7 or 8 when quite simply the whole team didn''t perform very well and didn''t have the same desire as Carlisle.

 

I think Martin has had certain games this season when he hasn''t been all that good but at the end of the day his levels of end product have been good - look at his goals tally and the games hes been involved that Norwich have won!

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[quote user="king canary"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="king canary"][quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Superflash"]He''s only going to get better with time. His loan spell at Luton certainly did him the world of good and he is almost a dead cert for 20 goals this season at least. Sure, he''s not gonig to have play blinder every game. But he''s still been an important player for us this season so far and will no doubt become even more important as the season''s conclusion arrives.[/quote]

I actually think, unless he starts putting more into games and/or scoring more goals, he could be someone who could let us down (in terms of our promotion campaign). And by "let us down" I just mean...not good enough to do what we need.

But as I said earlier, and several times before, he''s a talented player. So it''s up to him to prove himself (which he''s still yet to do).

 

[/quote]
Dont see how he has let us down. He may not chase all the time but we need someone to remain in the middle to give us options.
[/quote]

To be fair I said "could let us down"

I''ve said it earlier on in the season, he is someone who I could see not being good enough across a full season for a team chasing promotion.

[/quote]
Potentially anybody ''could'' let us down. Holt could forget where the goal is. Wes could convert to Buddism and decide he needs to move to Tibet. Lambert could go a bti crazy and play Luke Daley in goal. Bit unfair to criticise based on what someone ''could'' do.

Now whether he will be good enough across a season is an interesting question, but one that cant be answered til May really. For me he has been good enough so far and I see no reason why he wont be for longer.
[/quote]

I didn''t criticise him based on what could happen, though. I was more expressing a gut feeling that he could end up not being good enough.

He''s got 5 league goals so far this season (and league goals is what counts for us) which is ok, not great but ok. He''s still got a long way to go to prove himself. With Holt and Wes I don''t doubt that they can do the business consistently through the season, I''m just not so sure about Martin.

Like I always say though, I think he''s got talent and I like him as a player but there''s still a lot of room for improvement.

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Martin has done a job for us this season but would be nothing without Holt and Wes. However, without the other two I feel Holt and Wes would still perform pretty well. Martin''s young and still learning but my main beef with him is his arrogance. I remember at Stockport away when Cody went through 1 on 1 with the keeper and squared the ball to Holt for him to put into an empty net. At the time I questioned whether Martin would have done the same, I doubt it. He''s not as much of a team player as some and when the chips are down I don''t fancy him to be in there scrapping. All that said, he has bagged 10 so far this season, albeit 4 against Paulton but we can''t really complain when you compare it to the shower of sh!t we''ve become used to in seasons gone by.

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[quote user="Salford City YELLOW"]Martin has done a job for us this season but would be nothing without Holt and Wes. However, without the other two I feel Holt and Wes would still perform pretty well. Martin''s young and still learning but my main beef with him is his arrogance. I remember at Stockport away when Cody went through 1 on 1 with the keeper and squared the ball to Holt for him to put into an empty net. At the time I questioned whether Martin would have done the same, I doubt it. He''s not as much of a team player as some and when the chips are down I don''t fancy him to be in there scrapping. All that said, he has bagged 10 so far this season, albeit 4 against Paulton but we can''t really complain when you compare it to the shower of sh!t we''ve become used to in seasons gone by.[/quote]I think every team needs a ''selfish'' striker. How often last season did we simply pass the ball round the opponents penalty area with no one taking a shot? Holt isn''t that selfish, Hoolahan is often quite reluctant to shoot. I think having someone like Martin as part of the forward 3 is absolutely vital.

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[quote user="motley7"]Best finisher at the club by a country mile. One of those frustrating strikers that drift in and out of games, but why would you even think of breaking up the 3 forward lads that contributed  +30 goals already?   [/quote]

Not so sure Mr Holt would agree

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[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Salford City YELLOW"]Martin has done a job for us this season but would be nothing without Holt and Wes. However, without the other two I feel Holt and Wes would still perform pretty well. Martin''s young and still learning but my main beef with him is his arrogance. I remember at Stockport away when Cody went through 1 on 1 with the keeper and squared the ball to Holt for him to put into an empty net. At the time I questioned whether Martin would have done the same, I doubt it. He''s not as much of a team player as some and when the chips are down I don''t fancy him to be in there scrapping. All that said, he has bagged 10 so far this season, albeit 4 against Paulton but we can''t really complain when you compare it to the shower of sh!t we''ve become used to in seasons gone by.[/quote]I think every team needs a ''selfish'' striker. How often last season did we simply pass the ball round the opponents penalty area with no one taking a shot? Holt isn''t that selfish, Hoolahan is often quite reluctant to shoot. I think having someone like Martin as part of the forward 3 is absolutely vital.[/quote]

Without a doubt. Although I could understand his selfishness and poor work-rate if he was top scorer. They are a lethal trio at the moment, the balance is right so I''m kind of contradicting myself. I''m just not convinced Martin (alone) is that good. Holt and Hoolihan I think are.

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Martin, Hoolahan and Holt are the three sides that hold together to form a triangle - take one away and the other two pieces just don''t make the same robust shape.
I quite like Martin for his selfish play sometimes as he''s not afraid to get an early shot off to catch the opposition keeper unprepared. Hoolahan is perhaps a more clinical finisher, i.e. penalties and the like, and Holt is a battering ram of a striker who''s simple aim is to get the ball over the line by hook or by crook.
Put it this way, would you rather Martin were up front for us, or for the opposition, I know which I''d prefer...

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[quote user="Anderz"]

Martin, Hoolahan and Holt are the three sides that hold together to form a triangle - take one away and the other two pieces just don''t make the same robust shape.
I quite like Martin for his selfish play sometimes as he''s not afraid to get an early shot off to catch the opposition keeper unprepared. Hoolahan is perhaps a more clinical finisher, i.e. penalties and the like, and Holt is a battering ram of a striker who''s simple aim is to get the ball over the line by hook or by crook.
Put it this way, would you rather Martin were up front for us, or for the opposition, I know which I''d prefer...

[/quote]

Rubbish...Holt and Hoolahan can play fine together without Martin and with Russell out tonight I think Lambert might even go with that.

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[quote user="Salford City YELLOW"]Martin has done a job for us this season but would be nothing without Holt and Wes. However, without the other two I feel Holt and Wes would still perform pretty well. Martin''s young and still learning but my main beef with him is his arrogance. I remember at Stockport away when Cody went through 1 on 1 with the keeper and squared the ball to Holt for him to put into an empty net. At the time I questioned whether Martin would have done the same, I doubt it. He''s not as much of a team player as some and when the chips are down I don''t fancy him to be in there scrapping. All that said, he has bagged 10 so far this season, albeit 4 against Paulton but we can''t really complain when you compare it to the shower of sh!t we''ve become used to in seasons gone by.[/quote]

But surely it`s his selfishness in the penalty area which has won us three (i think) penalties this season?  I don`t mind players being selfish if they deliver the goods.

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As I''ve said before, I really do think that Martin suffers from his earlier time at the club. The whole lazy and big time Charlie thing was perfectly justifiable then, but still hangs over him now, at least as far as some fans are concerned. He also has rather unfortunate body language which can make him appear disinterested when he isn''t.

I think he''s had a really good season and is always likely to get a goal from nothing because of the quality of his shooting and a natural ability to get a shot away with minimal backlift, but the thing I really like is his ability and willingness to run at defenders. I think he complements the other two really well and that in all three cases the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

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Only just december, he has scored 10 goals so far and still he gets criticised - sometimes fans opinions completely baffle me.  How often have we had a secondary striker hit double figures for the club?   So rarely - even in promotion seasons. 

What we have is a team with real balance,  and an ability to work together.  Martin is accused of being lazy,  but that is more body language than anything.  watch his movement;  his interplay with holt and hoolahan means that we have a threat across the width of the pitch,  if holt goes wide and hoolahan in the middle martin will be on the other flank  to give options.

He does not have the creativity of hoolahan or the blood and thunder approach of Holt,  but he works superbly with them to make the three of them together better than their individual parts;  and that is the benefit of team work - getting more out of the players as a unit than you would as individuals. Being a good footballer is not always about making a grand statement,  quiet effectiveness such as claude makalele, dider deschamps or Dunga provided are just as essential to a team.

The same applies to Smith and Lappin,  they give the team balance shape and energy which alone is not enough,  but together with either Russel of Hughes at the base makes them and effective central midfield unit.  Change either and we are not so good...    

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Only just december, he has scored 10 goals so far and still he gets criticised - sometimes fans opinions completely baffle me.  How often have we had a secondary striker hit double figures for the club?   So rarely - even in promotion seasons. 

What we have is a team with real balance,  and an ability to work together.  Martin is accused of being lazy,  but that is more body language than anything.  watch his movement;  his interplay with holt and hoolahan means that we have a threat across the width of the pitch,  if holt goes wide and hoolahan in the middle martin will be on the other flank  to give options.

He does not have the creativity of hoolahan or the blood and thunder approach of Holt,  but he works superbly with them to make the three of them together better than their individual parts;  and that is the benefit of team work - getting more out of the players as a unit than you would as individuals. Being a good footballer is not always about making a grand statement,  quiet effectiveness such as claude makalele, dider deschamps or Dunga provided are just as essential to a team.

The same applies to Smith and Lappin,  they give the team balance shape and energy which alone is not enough,  but together with either Russel of Hughes at the base makes them and effective central midfield unit.  Change either and we are not so good...    

[/quote]

I take all that on board & for me it could well be his body language. I will take a closer look at him tonight & if I am wrong I will freely admit so I''m not too proud, just beacuse I have been invloved in football one way or another for the past 30 years it doesnt make me anymore an expert than a 6 yearold lad just starting out!  

Thats the beauty of this board, football & life itself, someone else''s opinion can change your whole outlook on something!

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Only just december, he has scored 10 goals so far and still he gets criticised - sometimes fans opinions completely baffle me.  How often have we had a secondary striker hit double figures for the club?   So rarely - even in promotion seasons. 

What we have is a team with real balance,  and an ability to work together.  Martin is accused of being lazy,  but that is more body language than anything.  watch his movement;  his interplay with holt and hoolahan means that we have a threat across the width of the pitch,  if holt goes wide and hoolahan in the middle martin will be on the other flank  to give options.

He does not have the creativity of hoolahan or the blood and thunder approach of Holt,  but he works superbly with them to make the three of them together better than their individual parts;  and that is the benefit of team work - getting more out of the players as a unit than you would as individuals. Being a good footballer is not always about making a grand statement,  quiet effectiveness such as claude makalele, dider deschamps or Dunga provided are just as essential to a team.

The same applies to Smith and Lappin,  they give the team balance shape and energy which alone is not enough,  but together with either Russel of Hughes at the base makes them and effective central midfield unit.  Change either and we are not so good...    

[/quote]Totally agree.

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[quote user="Spud1973"]

I take all that on board & for me it could well be his body language. I will take a closer look at him tonight & if I am wrong I will freely admit so I''m not too proud, just beacuse I have been invloved in football one way or another for the past 30 years it doesnt make me anymore an expert than a 6 yearold lad just starting out!  

Thats the beauty of this board, football & life itself, someone else''s opinion can change your whole outlook on something!

[/quote]

Just my opinion too spud - but with far less credible entirely arm chair view point ;-) - I am just hoping Chris - and the whole team - can sustain their current league form   

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I think, at the end of the day (to use the cliché) we''ll have to wait and see what Chris Martin has done by the end of the season. For me, he''s not proven yet. He''s played what? About 15 games or so? And got 5 league goals.

There''s a long way to go as yet.

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See thats the other thing, people going on about him hitting 10 goals & its only December. Four of those were against non league oposition in the FA Cup & yes I  know you have to beat whats infront of you, but for me he''s still not proven.

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[quote user="Spud1973"]See thats the other thing, people going on about him hitting 10 goals & its only December. Four of those were against non league oposition in the FA Cup & yes I  know you have to beat whats infront of you, but for me he''s still not proven.[/quote]

He is far from proven and as I said I hope he continues his current form.

However since the 2002/3 season (only stats I can quicly lay my hands on, and including the promotion season) only 6 times has a city player hit more than 10 across a whole season,  and none have hit 20.  In two of those seasons no one scored more than 7.

The third best player (where Martin is now) has averaged only 7 goals, with the best 9 goals (Dublin, all competitions 07/08). 

Only once in that period have we had two players get more than 10 goals - hux (13) and earnshaw(19) in 06/07. 

Martin can only score in the games he players - to have three players in double figure so early in the season suggests that as an attacking force the strikers and team are doing something right.

Two of those 6 players to hit more than 10 in a season are still at the club - name them :-) 

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

 

Two of those 6 players to hit more than 10 in a season are still at the club - name them :-) 

[/quote]

Macca and Jamie?

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Yup WLY and Curo - neither reached the dizzy heights of 16 though!

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IMO Chris Martin has a good first touch, great feet, pace, powerful shot and and eye for goal, prepared to shoot on sight and from distance. He comes across as arrogant but that goes with the territory as they say. In short, I think he has genuine quality and definitely has potential to play and be successful at least at Championship level, possibly higher. He burst onto the scene at Carrow Road, then had problems and a season at Luton and it''s great to see him back at Norwich, playing so well and scoring goals .....and he is a local lad to boot. For crissakes, don''t knock him.

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Because he wasn''t a very nice lad a year or two ago alot of people just can''t get over it. The games i have thought. "Oh, Martin is having a quiet game." He scores. He has 10 goals and you still slag him off. And for you people who think he hasn''t changed he has.

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thought that the lad played pretty well last night setting up another goal worked hard when needing to. marking the space well.

thats another aspect of his game which seems to get over looked.

not sure on the figures but on top of his 10 goals he has a fare few assists along with a few pens won!!!

Keep it up CM

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It annoys me how fans can complain about a 21 year old, youth academy product, that has scored 10 goals by December. Obviously you think that every striker is going to work as hard as Grant Holt and if Martin did who would be up front. Most strikers play like Martin and to be honest nobody should be moaning if he has already scored 10 goals and he is ''lazy''. Martin has a great touch, an eye for goal, good cross and generally just a good finish. Stop moaning unless you want Cureton to start in his place.

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