Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The Butler

McNally

Recommended Posts

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I think it may become apparent what our new CE thinks....[/quote]

As he is now the man in possession of all the facts, I would be inclined to believe whatever he has to say on the issue.
[/quote]

Was that irony Blah?

This is where I came in!![:''(]

Do we stop the thread now or wait for Nutty to start all over again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I think it may become apparent what our new CE thinks....[/quote]As he is now the man in possession of all the facts, I would be inclined to believe whatever he has to say on the issue.[/quote]

Was that irony Blah?

This is where I came in!![:''(]

Do we stop the thread now or wait for Nutty to start all over again!

[/quote]No irony there Butler, you are making a generalisation about 2 separate points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I think it may become apparent what our new CE thinks....[/quote]

As he is now the man in possession of all the facts, I would be inclined to believe whatever he has to say on the issue.
[/quote]

Was that irony Blah?

This is where I came in!![:''(]

Do we stop the thread now or wait for Nutty to start all over again!

[/quote]

No irony there Butler, you are making a generalisation about 2 separate points.
[/quote]

I thought two points was what British bowmen (bowpersons) waved at the French. Same principal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I think it may become apparent what our new CE thinks....[/quote]As he is now the man in possession of all the facts, I would be inclined to believe whatever he has to say on the issue.[/quote]

Was that irony Blah?

This is where I came in!![:''(]

Do we stop the thread now or wait for Nutty to start all over again!

[/quote]No irony there Butler, you are making a generalisation about 2 separate points.[/quote]

I thought two points was what British bowmen (bowpersons) waved at the French. Same principal.

[/quote]If by the French you mean our fellow Europeans who live between the Channel and Belgium, then yes.  And the principal applies both ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Nutty, i remember the 16k figure being used several times as a general figure, not specific to one season ie. "we generally need about 16k to cover costs and break even"- and break even we generally did with the help of the odd player sale.  A bit different from needing 40k plus crowds to break even as in `08 hey?  But i assume we shouldn`t be curious as to why?

Football economy said nothing of the kind about Chelsea staff figures- it was misread by another poster and retracted on the same day.  The fact that you have to repeat lies to defend your weak position really says it all about you.  The fact that you whine about "nutty-baiting" when you`ve been caught contradicting yourself really does paint you as a comedy character frankly.  And you`ve apparently "cherry-picked" football economy as a site not to be trusted because you don`t like me using some of the figures they provide.....fantastic stuff!

And i wasn`t talking about non-player wages, but non-player wage costs- ie the amount it takes to run the club if you strip out player wages, and ours rose massively up to the Prem season and then stayed at the same level eating up nearly all our revenue in `08.  Don`t you think we should ask why?  I`ll tell you something someone who should know told me last season:  "They employ 5 full-timers in the press office....it must be the cushiest job in Norwich as we`ve all got Doncasters number and everything goes through him anyway".  I`ve also been told that McNally is amazed at the mess he`s inherited and there has been and will be big cut backs. 

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

[/quote]

How is that 16k figure relevant without putting it beside the costs and other income that it was measured against? And what is the relevance of it now? Are you saying we should still be able to break even on 16k gates?

Do you trust "football economy" more than you trust our own clubs annual report? "Football economy has been used on here for comparisons but does not compare like for like. I have not picked it as a site not to trust. I simply don''t trust the way the information has been used to try and make a point. It''s our club, an annual report is published every year, why don''t you trust it?

 

So anything that''s posted on here by you, or anyone you agree with, that''s found to be made up or untrue is just mis-read or a mistake. You get away with it because folk want to believe what you say. Even on this thread you still haven''t retracted your statement "and that is born out by the fact that the majority of years before promotion under Delia we did not make a transfer profit of any significance" even though you clearly made it up.

OK, I''ll rephrase it to your terminology : You say we spent 9m on non-player wage costs in ''01. What were these wage costs? Will you answer it this time?

You can assume what you want Mr Carrow. Can I ask you, given that you would have built the Jarrold and the hotel, which items on your list of infrastructure spends would you not have done and what would you have done instead? I remain sceptical that this spend has made much of an impact on our football performances. I stand by my point that poor manager appointments and the waste of competetive player budgets is the reason for our poor performance on the field and I''ve yet to be convinced that even 20m player budgets would have changed that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

[/quote]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

[/quote]

Butler, your assertion: "We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross mismanagement", might have some credibility if you were to explain away why Southampton and Charlton find themselves in the same position, having recently enjoyed the benefit of more sustained presence in the Premiership than Norwich City. Further, Ipswich, Reading, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are on the cusp of enjoying a similar fate of moving down the leagues. This gross mismanagement you refer to must be an awfully contagious disease. What''s more, I would not be at all surprised to see the infection strike Portsmouth the season after next. Who knows who it may strike next? Perhaps the message board of such clubs also have their share of "Butlers etc" who put their blinkers on and blast away at the gross incompetence of their respective clubs as if the malady only applies to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

[/quote]

Butler, your assertion: "We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross mismanagement", might have some credibility if you were to explain away why Southampton and Charlton find themselves in the same position, having recently enjoyed the benefit of more sustained presence in the Premiership than Norwich City. Further, Ipswich, Reading, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday are on the cusp of enjoying a similar fate of moving down the leagues. This gross mismanagement you refer to must be an awfully contagious disease. What''s more, I would not be at all surprised to see the infection strike Portsmouth the season after next. Who knows who it may strike next? Perhaps the message board of such clubs also have their share of "Butlers etc" who put their blinkers on and blast away at the gross incompetence of their respective clubs as if the malady only applies to them.

[/quote]

I would suggest that the blinkers are on your eyes not mine.

Just because one person has flu does not mean that many others can''t have it.

My concern is not with Charlton, Southampton (badly missmanaged) or Portsmouth, but with my club, the one I have supported for fifty odd years.

If you cannot see the missmanagement in our club then I would suggest that distance is clouding your view.

Who appointed, Hamilton,Gunn Roeder,Grant, Bob the grocer. Who has dabbled with building land and failed. Who has led the club into more debt.

They should have stuck to what they knew I would not have asked Bob to write a cookery book. so why did they think they could be succesful land agents?

There is this great myth Yankee that I am against the club and Directors. That myth is spread by Dearest Nutty it is not true.

I fully support the appointment of McNally,Lambert,Culverhouse and pray that this is the start of our renaisance but pretending the past has not happened is not the way to see that it does not happen again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

[/quote]

It''s not pathetic for any of those reasons.

It''s pathetic because the true fan you are talking about is you and your ilk.

It''s pathetic because the only audible discontent over the period that you have been accepting the crap dished up has been against the last decent football manager we had at the club and a few players who, although not the best, in the main gave 100%.

The real happy clappy fans are those who behave exactly like me in the stands or the directors box or wherever else they watch the game but then turn into crusaders on here.

If you need to hound out Smith&Jones then for Gods sake man have the courage to do so.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

Mr C why would you think that would make a difference to our Supporter?

He will be on the terraces applauding Delia and the team regardless because HE IS A TRUE FAN.

Takes whatever crap is dished up, watches relegations and sale of our best players,to be replaced by ? appointment of a succession of crap managers all to finance multi million loss making land deals.

They must be good for the club because they say so and the club (other than about player sales) does not lie does it.

And we are told that it could not be made up

[/quote]

This post is, to be quite frank, pathetic[:|]

 

[/quote]

Why reply then?

Did you recognise someone ?

Why is it you are the only one that can hold the facts?

Can change your mind with the wind and still think everyone else is wrong?

Pathetic because it does not match with your preconcieved ideas of our position.

We are now in the third division having been taken there by a level of gross missmanagement. First time in 50Years,if Bob was leading us there they certainly finished the job. The debt has more than quadrupled without any silver left to sell, that''s not already been hocked.

We have a team that has steadily been downgraded over the last 10 years to a level that can just compete in the third division.

You are happy so everything must be rosy.

We may just have appointed,in time people to get us out of this mess, but can we question the incompetence. Not in your book.

No one tells lies, just not truths.

DS was supporting Gunn until he was sacked, missmanagement or err untruths again.

As you are fond of saying you could not make it up.

[/quote]

It''s not pathetic for any of those reasons.

It''s pathetic because the true fan you are talking about is you and your ilk.

It''s pathetic because the only audible discontent over the period that you have been accepting the crap dished up has been against the last decent football manager we had at the club and a few players who, although not the best, in the main gave 100%.

The real happy clappy fans are those who behave exactly like me in the stands or the directors box or wherever else they watch the game but then turn into crusaders on here.

If you need to hound out Smith&Jones then for Gods sake man have the courage to do so.

[/quote]

What are you a crusader for nutty?

OTBC

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"][

I would suggest that the blinkers are on your eyes not mine.

Just because one person has flu does not mean that many others can''t have it.

My concern is not with Charlton, Southampton (badly missmanaged) or Portsmouth, but with my club, the one I have supported for fifty odd years.

If you cannot see the missmanagement in our club then I would suggest that distance is clouding your view.

Who appointed, Hamilton,Gunn Roeder,Grant, Bob the grocer. Who has dabbled with building land and failed. Who has led the club into more debt.

They should have stuck to what they knew I would not have asked Bob to write a cookery book. so why did they think they could be succesful land agents?

There is this great myth Yankee that I am against the club and Directors. That myth is spread by Dearest Nutty it is not true.

I fully support the appointment of McNally,Lambert,Culverhouse and pray that this is the start of our renaisance but pretending the past has not happened is not the way to see that it does not happen again.

[/quote]

Okay Butler, allow me to use your analogy, i.e. "Just because one person has the flu does not mean that many others can''t have it." I would say that''s exactly the point. The financial problems inherent now in English football, in particular, are being felt across the broad spectrum. The bug is far-reaching. I agree that, geographically, you are closer to it than I am, but that appears not to be helping you. Your questions regarding the land dabbling and the growing debt are hardly isolated to NCFC, are they? To look at the growth in debt numbers for Norwich without looking at what they have escalated by across English football over the past decade or so is, quite frankly, foolish.

You say you are not concerned with other clubs but only your own club. Try telling your wife that she should have kept her food budget at the same cost level over the past decade when friends and neighbours are paying twice as much. She''ll hit you with a ham hock. As for the land "dabbling", that''s an area that has served Norwich and many other clubs well in the past. Do you think there was no discussion about such matters between Geoffery Watling, for example, with Michael and Delia? It''s easy to be an expert after the event but a lot of us got caught out after the stock market collapse in believing land was a good way to go. Finally, gross mismanagement is what Leeds, Ipswich and Southampton ( to name a few ) demonstrated. Portsmouth being in the Prewmiership but unable to pay players wages borders on the same thing. Gross mismanagement is not the correct term for what is occurring at NCFC and it''s unfair of you, as a supporter, to say that it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="The Butler"][

I would suggest that the blinkers are on your eyes not mine.

Just because one person has flu does not mean that many others can''t have it.

My concern is not with Charlton, Southampton (badly missmanaged) or Portsmouth, but with my club, the one I have supported for fifty odd years.

If you cannot see the missmanagement in our club then I would suggest that distance is clouding your view.

Who appointed, Hamilton,Gunn Roeder,Grant, Bob the grocer. Who has dabbled with building land and failed. Who has led the club into more debt.

They should have stuck to what they knew I would not have asked Bob to write a cookery book. so why did they think they could be succesful land agents?

There is this great myth Yankee that I am against the club and Directors. That myth is spread by Dearest Nutty it is not true.

I fully support the appointment of McNally,Lambert,Culverhouse and pray that this is the start of our renaisance but pretending the past has not happened is not the way to see that it does not happen again.

[/quote]

Okay Butler, allow me to use your analogy, i.e. "Just because one person has the flu does not mean that many others can''t have it." I would say that''s exactly the point. The financial problems inherent now in English football, in particular, are being felt across the broad spectrum. The bug is far-reaching. I agree that, geographically, you are closer to it than I am, but that appears not to be helping you. Your questions regarding the land dabbling and the growing debt are hardly isolated to NCFC, are they? To look at the growth in debt numbers for Norwich without looking at what they have escalated by across English football over the past decade or so is, quite frankly, foolish.

You say you are not concerned with other clubs but only your own club. Try telling your wife that she should have kept her food budget at the same cost level over the past decade when friends and neighbours are paying twice as much. She''ll hit you with a ham hock. As for the land "dabbling", that''s an area that has served Norwich and many other clubs well in the past. Do you think there was no discussion about such matters between Geoffery Watling, for example, with Michael and Delia? It''s easy to be an expert after the event but a lot of us got caught out after the stock market collapse in believing land was a good way to go. Finally, gross mismanagement is what Leeds, Ipswich and Southampton ( to name a few ) demonstrated. Portsmouth being in the Prewmiership but unable to pay players wages borders on the same thing. Gross mismanagement is not the correct term for what is occurring at NCFC and it''s unfair of you, as a supporter, to say that it is.

[/quote]

Surely a key point is Yankee that all English clubs have to operate in the same economic and financial environment.

So why is it that since the launch of the Premiership in 1992-93 ( after we had been in the top tier for most of the previous 20 years) we are currently doing worse than most of our erstwhile colleagues? Remember them?

F.A. Carling Premiership League Table - 1992/1993 Season 

Chairmen have come and gone 

Boards have come and gone

Chief Executives have come and gone.

Managers have come and gone.

Coaches have come and gone.

Players have come and gone.

Kitmen have come and gone.

But the owners have remained the same.

Your Harry Truman must be turning in his grave because at NCFC the buck evidently does not stop at the top.

OTBC

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I LOVE that league table. When we were great. Until Bly posted, I didn''t realise that Delia owned the club then. Well done her.

That table looks alien now, 4 teams in League One, one franchised to MK, 7 in the Championship and Newcastle aren''t even on there!! Villa, Blackburn, QPR finishing above Liverpool, Arsenal in tenth, Chelsea 11th.

The only thing that hasn''t changed is our bloody owners...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[:D][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]

I LOVE that league table. When we were great. Until Bly posted, I didn''t realise that Delia owned the club then. Well done her.

That table looks alien now, 4 teams in League One, one franchised to MK, 7 in the Championship and Newcastle aren''t even on there!! Villa, Blackburn, QPR finishing above Liverpool, Arsenal in tenth, Chelsea 11th.

The only thing that hasn''t changed is our bloody owners...

[/quote]

careful Duncan, Robert Chase was the Chairman from 1986-1996.

Delia secured ownership in 1996 after our relegation from the Prem.

And since you love that league table, here it is again.[:D]

F.A. Carling Premiership League Table - 1992/1993 Season 

[:D]

OTBC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][:D][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]

I LOVE that league table. When we were great. Until Bly posted, I didn''t realise that Delia owned the club then. Well done her.

That table looks alien now, 4 teams in League One, one franchised to MK, 7 in the Championship and Newcastle aren''t even on there!! Villa, Blackburn, QPR finishing above Liverpool, Arsenal in tenth, Chelsea 11th.

The only thing that hasn''t changed is our bloody owners...

[/quote]

careful Duncan, Robert Chase was the Chairman from 1986-1996.

Delia secured ownership in 1996 after our relegation from the Prem.

And since you love that league table, here it is again.[:D]

F.A. Carling Premiership League Table - 1992/1993 Season 

[:D]

OTBC

[/quote]

"Pulls tongue firmly out of cheek"

So the owners are different? At least football is still the same. If you score more than them, you win.

Football hasn''t changed though, Arsenal only lost 16 games that season, Liverpool 15 and Chelsea 14. Just like now. If only we hadn''t bowed down to Smith and Jones we''d be bang up there. Maybe the door that every "blamer" should be knocking on is that of Sky. Their mini-league is the reason clubs are in the shoite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If You look at that league table you can see that there are 13 Clubs no longer in the Prem . Some are in the Champoinship and 5 are lower !  Is Delia to blame for that as well???  Norwich , QPR and Sheffield Wednesday were in the top 7 and all three failed to push on from there I grant you , BUT , 13 out of 22 clubs failed to become established in the premiership following on from that season. That shows how difficult it is!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That would mean looking at the bigger picture. Something that is beyond the likes of the NCISA committee members and their like minded souls unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="T"]That would mean looking at the bigger picture. Something that is beyond the likes of the NCISA committee members and their like minded souls unfortunately.[/quote]

Surprise surprise!!

The unwarrented attack starts again.

You really must get a different pair of glasses T . You are missing so much in life.

You might just see some questions left over for you to answer from last time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Nutty, i remember the 16k figure being used several times as a general figure, not specific to one season ie. "we generally need about 16k to cover costs and break even"- and break even we generally did with the help of the odd player sale.  A bit different from needing 40k plus crowds to break even as in `08 hey?  But i assume we shouldn`t be curious as to why?

Football economy said nothing of the kind about Chelsea staff figures- it was misread by another poster and retracted on the same day.  The fact that you have to repeat lies to defend your weak position really says it all about you.  The fact that you whine about "nutty-baiting" when you`ve been caught contradicting yourself really does paint you as a comedy character frankly.  And you`ve apparently "cherry-picked" football economy as a site not to be trusted because you don`t like me using some of the figures they provide.....fantastic stuff!

And i wasn`t talking about non-player wages, but non-player wage costs- ie the amount it takes to run the club if you strip out player wages, and ours rose massively up to the Prem season and then stayed at the same level eating up nearly all our revenue in `08.  Don`t you think we should ask why?  I`ll tell you something someone who should know told me last season:  "They employ 5 full-timers in the press office....it must be the cushiest job in Norwich as we`ve all got Doncasters number and everything goes through him anyway".  I`ve also been told that McNally is amazed at the mess he`s inherited and there has been and will be big cut backs. 

As i assume you think i`ve got it wrong that "obsession" with infrastructure spend has led to less money being available for the team rather than more, can i ask you to join me and T in our proposal to sell Askou, Holt, Hooly, Russell and Smith in January, replacing them with freebies on not more than 1k a week, thereby guaranteeing a profit in this financial year and leaving a surplus to be re-invested in land near the bottom of the economic cycle? 

 

[/quote]

How is that 16k figure relevant without putting it beside the costs and other income that it was measured against? And what is the relevance of it now? Are you saying we should still be able to break even on 16k gates?

Do you trust "football economy" more than you trust our own clubs annual report? "Football economy has been used on here for comparisons but does not compare like for like. I have not picked it as a site not to trust. I simply don''t trust the way the information has been used to try and make a point. It''s our club, an annual report is published every year, why don''t you trust it?

 

So anything that''s posted on here by you, or anyone you agree with, that''s found to be made up or untrue is just mis-read or a mistake. You get away with it because folk want to believe what you say. Even on this thread you still haven''t retracted your statement "and that is born out by the fact that the majority of years before promotion under Delia we did not make a transfer profit of any significance" even though you clearly made it up.

OK, I''ll rephrase it to your terminology : You say we spent 9m on non-player wage costs in ''01. What were these wage costs? Will you answer it this time?

You can assume what you want Mr Carrow. Can I ask you, given that you would have built the Jarrold and the hotel, which items on your list of infrastructure spends would you not have done and what would you have done instead? I remain sceptical that this spend has made much of an impact on our football performances. I stand by my point that poor manager appointments and the waste of competetive player budgets is the reason for our poor performance on the field and I''ve yet to be convinced that even 20m player budgets would have changed that.

 

[/quote]

I count four question marks in my post, none of which have been answered.  I`ll answer your questions when you address mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="T"]The only overspend Mc C and Tangie has been able to substantiate in all this time is the proverbial property deal which is costing 300k a year and had an expected 3m profit when the deal was done plus some minor bits and pieces. Otherwise it is just a pet theory. That is not to say I don''t accept that the Directors are probably taking a hard look at costs such as moving the reserve games which a few people moaned about. [/quote]

£9m non-player wage costs in `02= £6m left to be spent on the team.

£17m non-player wage costs in `08= £1.9m left to be spent on the team.

Preston non-player wage costs were about £4m in `08.  What`s gone wrong T- all that capital expenditure (a large amount which would have been available to spend on the team) and we end up with less to spend on the team than before? 

Are you going to back my proposal to sell our best players and buy more land?  You keep arguing it`s a great strategy yet when it comes to the crunch you won`t support it.....[:^)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="carpio"]If You look at that league table you can see that there are 13 Clubs no longer in the Prem . Some are in the Champoinship and 5 are lower !  Is Delia to blame for that as well???  Norwich , QPR and Sheffield Wednesday were in the top 7 and all three failed to push on from there I grant you , BUT , 13 out of 22 clubs failed to become established in the premiership following on from that season. That shows how difficult it is!!
[/quote]

Good point carpio. Of course she is not.(bit obvious that)

It''s really like schools these days, just because some pupils fail then it''s ok for all to fail.

I would just like our club to be the exception and achieve, wouldn''t you?

At the moment promotion to the 2nd Division would be an improvement.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8.5m was spent on the team not 1.9m as well you know. Try again.

Preston had lower costs but lower revenues so that argument is also irrelevant.

Whilst you''re at please explain the losses of Preston; Hull, Burnley etc

Pleae explain the number of clubs that have gone into administration

Please explain why the majority of football clubs are dependant on player sales and benefactors

Please explain how you get a loan from a bank to pay player wages, agent fees and transfer fees.

Plesae explain how you would fund a football club

 .....and then you may have some credibility otherwise I suggest you join the flat earth society as I suggested earlier where your denial of reality will fit in nicely.

and yes if I was looking at a deal with an expected profit of 3m then I would support that deal  because a profit of 3m would be a huge boost to the club''s playing budget. But then I have ambition for NCFC beyond a pitch with a bit of string around it and a burger fan unlike yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][

 

Chairmen have come and gone 

Boards have come and gone

Chief Executives have come and gone.

Managers have come and gone.

Coaches have come and gone.

Players have come and gone.

Kitmen have come and gone.

But the owners have remained the same.

Your Harry Truman must be turning in his grave because at NCFC the buck evidently does not stop at the top.

OTBC

[/quote]

This of course is a lie. The current owners took over the club nearly five years after that league table and we had already spent nearly three seasons in the Second Division and were at the time fighting relegation to the third.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][

 

Chairmen have come and gone 

Boards have come and gone

Chief Executives have come and gone.

Managers have come and gone.

Coaches have come and gone.

Players have come and gone.

Kitmen have come and gone.

But the owners have remained the same.

Your Harry Truman must be turning in his grave because at NCFC the buck evidently does not stop at the top.

OTBC

[/quote]

This of course is a lie. The current owners took over the club nearly five years after that league table and we had already spent nearly three seasons in the Second Division and were at the time fighting relegation to the third.

 

[/quote]

For those who would like the facts here they are:-

In 1992–93, the inaugural season of the English Premier League, Norwich City led the league for most of the season, before faltering in the final weeks to finish third behind the champions, Manchester United, and Aston Villa F.C.. The following season Norwich played in the UEFA Cup for the first time, defeating Vitesse Arnhem of the Netherlands, and Bayern Munich of Germany, before going down to Inter Milan, 2–0, over two legs.

Mike Walker quit as Norwich City manager in January 1994, to take charge of Everton where he would be sacked after less than a year. He was replaced by 36-year-old first team coach John Deehan, who in his new role would be assisted by 34-year-old midfielder Gary Megson. Norwich City finished the 1993-94 season 12th in the Premier League and during the 1994 close season sold 21-year-old striker Chris Sutton to Blackburn Rovers for a then British record fee of £5 million.

By christmas 1994, Norwich City were seventh in the Premiership and looked good bets for a UEFA Cup place. But the club went into freefall and won just one of their final 20 Premiership fixtures, plummeting to 20th place and relegation in the final table. Just before relegation was confirmed, Deehan resigned as manager and his assistant Megson took over until the end of the season.

Martin O''Neill, who had taken Wycombe Wanderers from the Conference to Division Two with successive promotions, was appointed as Norwich City manager in the summer of 1995. He lasted just six months in the job before moving to Leicester City, and Gary Megson was appointed Norwich manager for the second time in eight months - on a temporary basis. Megson remained in charge until the end of the season before leaving the club, while chairman Robert Chase also stepped down after protests from supporters who complained that he kept selling the club''s best players and was to blame for their relegation. Indeed, between 1992 and 1996 Norwich offloaded key players including Robert Fleck, Jeremy Goss, Chris Sutton, Tim Sherwood, Efan Ekoku and Mark Bowen. Just four seasons after finishing third in the Premiership and beating Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup, Norwich had finished 15th in Division One.

T.V. cook Delia Smith and husband Michael Wynn-Jones took over the majority of Norwich City''s shares, and Mike Walker was re-appointed as the club''s manager. But he was unable to repeat the success achieved during his first spell, and quit two seasons later with Norwich languishing around the middle of Division One. His successor Bruce Rioch lasted two seasons and departed in the summer of 2000, with promotion still yet to be achieved. Rioch''s successor Bryan Hamilton lasted in the job for six months before making way for assistant manager Nigel Worthington.

When Nigel Worthington took over as Norwich City manager in January 2001, the club was 20th in Division One and in real danger of sliding into the bottom half of the league for the first time since the 1960''s. But just 18 months later, Norwich qualified for the Division One playoff final and only a defeat on penalties against Birmingham City prevented them from gaining promotion to the Premiership. Norwich just missed out on the playoffs in 2002-03 but were crowned Division One champions at the end of the 2003-04 season. After nine years and six managers,

So not as Bly or Nutty states.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T,

a., The £8.5m was in reference to LAST season and we don`t yet have the accounts for that.  Now address my point about `07-`08.

b., So again, are you saying it`s better to be a club with £19m turnover but non-player wage costs of £17m than a club with £8.5m turnover and non-player wage costs of £4m?  You think it`s better to be a football club with less to spend on football?!

c., If you want to do a detailed comparison with those clubs as we have with Preston, let`s see it.

d., Clubs have gone into administration because of debts for infrastructure.  Players can be sold and the wage bill cut to the bone- you cannot do that with enormous debts for stands which are not filled and useless land and roads.  You actually defeat your own argument by saying you can`t get a bank loan for players.

e., Our faultless majority shareholders were saying as recently as a few months ago "No-one is interested in investing in football clubs", now it`s "The majority of football clubs have wealthy benefactors"- which is it?  Incidently, given that the whole "Wealthy benefactor" thing is quite new, how do you think football clubs survived before they turned up?

f., Proves my point that debt for infrastructure sends clubs into administration.  Thanks!

g., I would fund the football club how it was funded before the disastrous infrastructure "obsession" kicked in when we made a profit the majority of years.

h., Grow up.

i.,  So there you have it.  T proposes asset-stripping our team, bringing in freebies on not more than 1k per week and buying land.  What effect do you think that will have on the team and our chances of a promotion worth a good £3m T?  Once we have made a profit from the land, would it not be sensible to buy more land and roads rather than wasting it on football players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

I count four question marks in my post, none of which have been answered.  I`ll answer your questions when you address mine.[/quote]

Question mark1&2) I thought I had answered this as best I could. But I can''t possibly answer why you assume we shouldn''t be curious as to why. All I''d say is that your comment about the "odd player sale" is spin at best. I listed a lot of those sales and they amount to millions and millions of pounds. I also listed a couple of million on sell ons that I remember but their could be more. There was also a share rights issue. But without knowing what income those 16k gates were supposed to bring in against what costs they were meant to break even there''s nothing more I can say.

Question mark3) I could answer that if I knew what these non-player wage costs were. Are they wages or costs. Where can I find them. As with all costs I guess they have to be measured against the relevant income to paint a true picture. Without knowing anymore about these non-playing wage costs this is the best I can do.

Question mark 4) I don''t agree with your proposal. I am heartened to hear that money from any transfers will go straight back to Lambert. But I''m sceptical about it because I''ve "heard it all before". Which is where I came into this thread on page one.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][

 

Chairmen have come and gone 

Boards have come and gone

Chief Executives have come and gone.

Managers have come and gone.

Coaches have come and gone.

Players have come and gone.

Kitmen have come and gone.

But the owners have remained the same.

Your Harry Truman must be turning in his grave because at NCFC the buck evidently does not stop at the top.

OTBC

[/quote]

This of course is a lie. The current owners took over the club nearly five years after that league table and we had already spent nearly three seasons in the Second Division and were at the time fighting relegation to the third.

 

[/quote]

For those who would like the facts here they are:-

In 1992–93, the inaugural season of the English Premier League, Norwich City led the league for most of the season, before faltering in the final weeks to finish third behind the champions, Manchester United, and Aston Villa F.C.. The following season Norwich played in the UEFA Cup for the first time, defeating Vitesse Arnhem of the Netherlands, and Bayern Munich of Germany, before going down to Inter Milan, 2–0, over two legs.

Mike Walker quit as Norwich City manager in January 1994, to take charge of Everton where he would be sacked after less than a year. He was replaced by 36-year-old first team coach John Deehan, who in his new role would be assisted by 34-year-old midfielder Gary Megson. Norwich City finished the 1993-94 season 12th in the Premier League and during the 1994 close season sold 21-year-old striker Chris Sutton to Blackburn Rovers for a then British record fee of £5 million.

By christmas 1994, Norwich City were seventh in the Premiership and looked good bets for a UEFA Cup place. But the club went into freefall and won just one of their final 20 Premiership fixtures, plummeting to 20th place and relegation in the final table. Just before relegation was confirmed, Deehan resigned as manager and his assistant Megson took over until the end of the season.

Martin O''Neill, who had taken Wycombe Wanderers from the Conference to Division Two with successive promotions, was appointed as Norwich City manager in the summer of 1995. He lasted just six months in the job before moving to Leicester City, and Gary Megson was appointed Norwich manager for the second time in eight months - on a temporary basis. Megson remained in charge until the end of the season before leaving the club, while chairman Robert Chase also stepped down after protests from supporters who complained that he kept selling the club''s best players and was to blame for their relegation. Indeed, between 1992 and 1996 Norwich offloaded key players including Robert Fleck, Jeremy Goss, Chris Sutton, Tim Sherwood, Efan Ekoku and Mark Bowen. Just four seasons after finishing third in the Premiership and beating Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup, Norwich had finished 15th in Division One.

T.V. cook Delia Smith and husband Michael Wynn-Jones took over the majority of Norwich City''s shares, and Mike Walker was re-appointed as the club''s manager. But he was unable to repeat the success achieved during his first spell, and quit two seasons later with Norwich languishing around the middle of Division One. His successor Bruce Rioch lasted two seasons and departed in the summer of 2000, with promotion still yet to be achieved. Rioch''s successor Bryan Hamilton lasted in the job for six months before making way for assistant manager Nigel Worthington.

When Nigel Worthington took over as Norwich City manager in January 2001, the club was 20th in Division One and in real danger of sliding into the bottom half of the league for the first time since the 1960''s. But just 18 months later, Norwich qualified for the Division One playoff final and only a defeat on penalties against Birmingham City prevented them from gaining promotion to the Premiership. Norwich just missed out on the playoffs in 2002-03 but were crowned Division One champions at the end of the 2003-04 season. After nine years and six managers,

So not as Bly or Nutty states.

[/quote]

This is simply not true. Geoffrey Watling brought Chases shares. Martin Armstrong and Watling appointed Mike Walker as manager. Smith & Jones then joined the board in return for a couple of mil in a similar way to the Turners did a few years ago. It wasn''t until 18 months later that he sold the lot to Smith and Jones. By that time we were well into our third season in Division Two and looking extremely likely to be relegated to Division Three.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...