Nelson or Doherty

[Hucka Hucka Huckerby 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Bruces Header"]

Wiz, tell me how Nelson is better in the air than Doc? What does he do differently because Doc wins his fair share!

Also, Doc can pass better, man mark better & has more pace... How the hell is Nelson better????

If Doc starts ahead of Nelson Saturday will you admit only you rate Nelson above Ginger Pele?

[/quote]

No Bruce, because thats clearly not the case is it? there''s 24.000 fans who aren''t even registered on this message board..........plus Nelson might not be fully recovered from his injury yet.

[/quote]

Well, Nelson has come out & said he''s fit & ready for selection plus he''s played in the last 2 cup games so I acan only assume he is fit... Also, I haven''t spoken to anybody who wants to see him lose his place to the limited Nelson. You can''t argue with form & Doc is bang in!!

Anyway, I worry more about Semmy... Now he is a defensive liability!!!

[a1canary 0]

Lol - Doc has more pace than Nelson? That''s like saying Phil Vickery has more pace than Martin Johnson!

[Hucka Hucka Huckerby 0]

I know Doc isn''t Usain Bolt, but he is MUCH quicker than Nelson!

[YellowNetsAreBetter 0]

Hmmm, just wondering what it is about Doc that makes people worry about him, as do I..

To be honest, I think it''s to do with his inability to lead+support the back line through truly difficult phases of a game (though that is a big ask I know, but is crucial for a CB). When results have been good, he''s fine. In brief, I think it''s a case of his mind needing to be that bit stronger, so as to have more self confidence, and not be so affected by the crowd getting on at him. If he isn''t affected by it, then he''d win the crowd as he currently doing.... the real test will be when we play decent opposition week on week, who have some pace that exposes his weaknesses--how will he react? I just hope he is man enough to recognise his weaknesses and potentially get someone else to help him out if he spots something..

Blimey, that was quite a bold bunch of statements I just made -- which I guess aren''t based on so much... but hey we''re allowed to do this in this forum :).

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Bruces Header"]I know Doc isn''t Usain Bolt, but he is MUCH quicker than Nelson![/quote]

He''s also quicker than Askou and Spillane.

[a1canary 0]

I too have always bemoaned out lack of defensive leader and marshaller, who we lost when Malky left. In fleming and shackell and doc and the various pairings we''ve had since, we''ve never got that back. Except when Dublin played there, which he wasn''t meant to. But he was a fantastic defensive marshaller and eventhough he had shortcomings, he made up for it by keeping our defence in order, in position and so on.

To be fair to the doc however, i''ve noticed he has started to take on more responsibility for this and to organise the back line a bit better. It''s so important and so often overlooked, to Nigel Worthington''s eternal cost i believe. If he had kept or replaced Malky like for like, as he so nearly did with Linvoy Primus, i think the recent history of NCFC could have been very different. To this day i don''t understand why he gave up getting a CB like Primus when that move didn''t come off. Instead, he appeared to have a funny turn, signed Simon Charlton, and the rest is history!

[The gut 0]

I''m pro Doc as previously stated. Do you all remember when (his player of the season season) he recovered from injury and appeared to have lost a couple of stone. I do think he could do himself a favour and shed a few pounds again, he''d probably improve his performance, win the fans over, eliminate most of the doubts and do himself justice. I really believe that whatever your standard it is always better with increased fitness. I also believe there are more in the team this applies to who could be leaner and fitter despite what the club fitness program is.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

The best I have ever seen Doc play was when we had Martin Taylor on loan. It seemed that having someone else "lead the line" took the pressure off Gary and allowed him to play better than ever. When playing with Shakell (before we sold him and not during the loan spell), Doc was the senior guy and had to take control, which freaked him out a bit I think and lead to mistakes from both defenders. I believe Roeder spotted this and wanted to get in someone to take that responsibility off the Doc but never really managed it.

Recently it seems as if Askou is acting as the boss allowing Doc to do what he does best, defend, without having to worry about the other CB.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Doc.  He''s calmer and classier than Nelson, and I''m aware that Doc''s not Beckenbauer when I say that.

Also, has anyone mentioned Drury is playing amazingly well at the moment?
[/quote]

Drury must be so relieved to have a midfielder in front of him, after years playing behind Hucks and then Hoolahan. He is back to his best and is a class above this league at least. Top bloke, too. Just gets on with it.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[/quote]

Can you not read Robert? I''ve seen Doc play live in many, many games at Carrow Road.................GOT IT?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[/quote]

Can you not read Robert? I''ve seen Doc play live in many, many games at Carrow Road.................GOT IT?

[/quote]

Is that your stock answer to everyone today Wiz? To make a fair comparison you would have to have seen both play live in many, many games.................... GOT IT?

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Doherty.

I think Nelson is alright at this level, especially to have as backup. But Doherty is a better defender and a much better player with the ball.

I''m yet to see a better centreback than Gary Doherty in this league.

[/quote]

 

Nail hit firmly on the head I think!

[Houston Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[/quote]

Can you not read Robert? I''ve seen Doc play live in many, many games at Carrow Road.................GOT IT?

[/quote]

Is that your stock answer to everyone today Wiz? To make a fair comparison you would have to have seen both play live in many, many games.................... GOT IT?

If you have to have seen both play in many, many games, then this entire thread, by your standards, is moot. I doubt any commenter here has seen Nelson play in many, many games.  How you can, by your own standards, claim Dork is better than Nelson is unclear. What I know is that our defense has been nails with either of them in the line up this year.  They are both seemingly quality central defenders at this level.

 

[/quote]

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

[quote user="paul lamberts bottle"]Which one would you prefer?[/quote]

doherty without a shadow of doubt.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Houston Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[/quote]

Can you not read Robert? I''ve seen Doc play live in many, many games at Carrow Road.................GOT IT?

[/quote]

Is that your stock answer to everyone today Wiz? To make a fair comparison you would have to have seen both play live in many, many games.................... GOT IT?

[/quote]

If you have to have seen both play in many, many games, then this entire thread, by your standards, is moot. I doubt any commenter here has seen Nelson play in many, many games.  How you can, by your own standards, claim Dork is better than Nelson is unclear. What I know is that our defense has been nails with either of them in the line up this year.  They are both seemingly quality central defenders at this level.

 

[/quote]

Is this load of old drivel aimed at me Whitney[:^)]

My point was the comparison can''t be made on the basis you have seen one of the two play many, many games. You can of course make a comparison based on seeing them both once. But if your comparison is made by what you see live in games it''s not a comparison if only one has been seen live.

You can of course make a comparison  without seeing either live. You could compare the goals against/minutes played this season. That would be a fair comparison too don''t you think?

But just saying that Nelly is Docs equal or in fact better, because of a poor opinion of The Doc, is not a comparison is it? It''s more a prejudiced point of view.

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

As a dance partner? Nelson. Doc has two left feet.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

They''re both saddled with the same livery...."Clippety Clop, but they''re all we''ve got"....

Nutless Nigella won''t slate the Doc....coz Worthy brought him in....

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Is that your stock answer to everyone today Wiz? To make a fair comparison you would have to have seen both play live in many, many games.................... GOT IT?

 

[/quote]

Yes.

Because it seems that some posters are so thick and dim that I had hoped by using repitition it might sink into their collective thick skulls!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

Because it seems that some posters are so thick and dim

repitition

[/quote]Ah Wiz, we have to love you.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

They''re both saddled with the same livery...."Clippety Clop, but they''re all we''ve got"....

Nutless Nigella won''t slate the Doc....coz Worthy brought him in....

[/quote]

Do they have a part in this years panto?

[newcastle uni canary 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.[/quote]looks like Doc has worked his way back in the first team

[Herman 9,713]

[quote user="paul lamberts bottle"][quote user="First Wizard"]Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.[/quote]

looks like Doc has worked his way back in the first team
[/quote]

Lol,doesn''t look like Lambert knows what he is doing[:P]

[CanaryJames 0]

Doherty should be dropped.

I mean. We''re keeping clean sheets and he''s scoring.

It''s disgusting he''s still in the team.[:|]

[nolegs 0]

Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.try not to make your opinions sound like facts mate,or they tend to come back and bite you in the bum!

[Paul Argent 0]

Buy in Jan, and make the defence stonger, we need players that play in the champonship and get us out of L1.

If we get up, we need a defence that can stand up to this. We need strong players at the back for the second part of the season, with play offs and cup games, were going to be playing many games in the next few months. improve the squad for the future!!!

[ca 1]

[quote user="nolegs"]Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.


[/quote]

 

How come he didn''t play Nelson today then?

[Houston Canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Houston Canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

The Doc has been excellent since he came back, which says a frightening amount about the difference between League One and the Championship. He''s just as good as Nelson in the air, despite what Wiz might have worked out from a few grainy pixels on CanariesWorld, and his distribution is far better. He''s actually a lot quicker than people think, though he turns slower than milk. Part of his problem is that he looks like an old man: he''s actually a pretty decent footballer.

I am sure Nelson will get better, but I''ve seen nothing of him this season to suggest that he''s anywhere near good enough to play for Norwich. He is by some distance the least sophisticated centre half I''ve ever seen play for the club. If he gets it at his feet all he can do is hoof it into the Jarrold Stand. He looks like a League One/Two clogger to me. Possibly he will get better with more fitness and settling in the area etc, but I''m not really sure how that will effect his ability to pass to another yellow shirt.

Still, they say he had a good game on Tuesday.

Doc and Askou is working well. Let''s keep em together.

[/quote]

Can you not read Robert? I''ve seen Doc play live in many, many games at Carrow Road.................GOT IT?

[/quote]

Is that your stock answer to everyone today Wiz? To make a fair comparison you would have to have seen both play live in many, many games.................... GOT IT?

[/quote]

If you have to have seen both play in many, many games, then this entire thread, by your standards, is moot. I doubt any commenter here has seen Nelson play in many, many games.  How you can, by your own standards, claim Dork is better than Nelson is unclear. What I know is that our defense has been nails with either of them in the line up this year.  They are both seemingly quality central defenders at this level.

 

[/quote]

Is this load of old drivel aimed at me Whitney[:^)]

My point was the comparison can''t be made on the basis you have seen one of the two play many, many games. You can of course make a comparison based on seeing them both once. But if your comparison is made by what you see live in games it''s not a comparison if only one has been seen live.

You can of course make a comparison  without seeing either live. You could compare the goals against/minutes played this season. That would be a fair comparison too don''t you think?

But just saying that Nelly is Docs equal or in fact better, because of a poor opinion of The Doc, is not a comparison is it? It''s more a prejudiced point of view.

 

[/quote]

You seem to have back-pedaled away from your statement and reworded it. Your opinion of Dork is as senselessly biased as anyone''s; it just happens to be pro.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="nolegs"]Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.

try not to make your opinions sound like facts mate,or they tend to come back and bite you in the bum!
[/quote]

Hence the imo on the end of my post........mate.........wake up![:S]

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="nolegs"]Nelson every single time..........and PL thinks the same imo.


[/quote]

 

How come he didn''t play Nelson today then?

[/quote]

Again Angel, explain IMO on the end of my post my dear!

I trust Lambert to make the correct call, maybe Nelson needs more games who knows?

But I won''t piss on the boy Doc''s good game today and of course he scored a vital goal, whatever''s good for City I''ll go with