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Matt Juler

Hoolahan on Saturday

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My first chance to post since Saturday and only looked back over the last 20 or so posts, so apologies if I''m repeating what others have said.

As many of you know I''ve been critical of Hoolahan, especially after Tuesday night where I described his play as the "Wesley show", constantly trying to do too much.

On Saturday I couldn''t fault his performance at all. It was full of the skill and trickery that we want to see from Wes, but most importantly for me he didn''t keep hold of the ball for a second longer than needed. He also only beat his man 3 times instead of the usual 4 or 5!

 

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[quote user="Matt Juler"]

My first chance to post since Saturday and only looked back over the last 20 or so posts, so apologies if I''m repeating what others have said.

As many of you know I''ve been critical of Hoolahan, especially after Tuesday night where I described his play as the "Wesley show", constantly trying to do too much.

On Saturday I couldn''t fault his performance at all. It was full of the skill and trickery that we want to see from Wes, but most importantly for me he didn''t keep hold of the ball for a second longer than needed. He also only beat his man 3 times instead of the usual 4 or 5!

 

[/quote]

 Like you, I''ve been very critical, but we now have a more disciplined model, and, most importantly, he''s playing further up the pitch and not getting near our box, so the danger of him losing it in dangerous areas has decreased dramatically. Great penalty too!

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In that hole behind the strikers he is unplayable at this level.

What encourages me the most though is his workrate now. His chasing back was first class on Saturday and he is gradually becoming less of a ''luxury'' player.

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[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Matt Juler"]

My first chance to post since Saturday and only looked back over the last 20 or so posts, so apologies if I''m repeating what others have said.

As many of you know I''ve been critical of Hoolahan, especially after Tuesday night where I described his play as the "Wesley show", constantly trying to do too much.

On Saturday I couldn''t fault his performance at all. It was full of the skill and trickery that we want to see from Wes, but most importantly for me he didn''t keep hold of the ball for a second longer than needed. He also only beat his man 3 times instead of the usual 4 or 5!

 

[/quote]

 Like you, I''ve been very critical, but we now have a more disciplined model, and, most importantly, he''s playing further up the pitch and not getting near our box, so the danger of him losing it in dangerous areas has decreased dramatically. Great penalty too!

[/quote]

To quote Lambert

"when he learns to do what I want I will play him"

I assume Lambert/Crook/Culverhouse have now worked out what they want and how they want it, and got it into Wes''s head.

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Have to agree with what everyone has said. I''ve moaned about Wes in the past but he''s a very influential player for us right now! Credit must go to Rusty as well though. I think people miss alot of work that he does in front of the back four. He has effectively changed his style of play and reverted to a more defensive midfielder. He allows Wes and Korey to be more offensive.

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[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]I think Lambert has to be saluted for the way he''s sorted out the sides shape and balance and then brought in players like Hoolahan and Martin who give us that little bit extra going forward.[/quote]

Exactly, the guy has got Hoolihan playing like he means business and has also managed to improve the Doc (on the basis of the last two showings) and has brought Russell back into the fold.  Man management skills his 3 predecessors could only have dreamed about!

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Lambert''s done what he needed to do with Wes which is put him in his best position, we were never going to see him at the top of his game out wide because he doesn''t have the pace. Never understood people saying we shouldn''t play him because he''s a luxury player, why is an intelligent, skillful player a luxury?  i''d say they are a necessity in any team that wants to play attractive passing football! He''s got the skills which mean at this level he should be the fulcrum of the team, now he''s being utilised effectively we are seeing the best of him and  reaping the benefits, hopefully we will continue to do so.

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[quote user="Road to Nowhere"]

In that hole behind the strikers he is unplayable at this level.

What encourages me the most though is his workrate now. His chasing back was first class on Saturday and he is gradually becoming less of a ''luxury'' player.

[/quote]Completely agree with this. He is a different player since Lambert took over; more disciplined, more creative and less greedy. Still room for improvement. Imagine how good he would be if he spent two hours a day practising with his right foot?

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See Smudger it''s not that difficult [;)]

A few decent points raised in this thread already. Firstly, if you have a creative player who on occasions has the tendency to give the ball away whilst trying something a little different you want to get him as far away from your goal as possible. You also don''t want to stifle his creativity by sticking him out on the left wing. Credit to Paul Lambert for giving him what is essentially a free role and one where he can link play between the defence and attack.

Secondly, his work rate when he loses the ball in the final third seems to have improved dramatically. In the second half on Saturday he was constantly buzzing around the Rovers defence when we lost the ball and this pressing high up the field helps us turnover possesion in more advanced areas. He doesn''t throw himself around as much as Grant Holt but sometimes all you need to do is apply a little pressure. Time after time on Saturday this led to Rovers hoofing the ball straight down the throats of Askou and Doc which obviously plays to their strengths.

Thirdly, the performances of Smith and Russell in more defensive midfield roles are providing him with a very solid platform. Smith looks every inch the modern day central midfielder and Russell seems to have taken on board what his role in the team is (win possession, give ball to better passer than me and get ready to shield defence if we lose it). If he can continue in that role then it gives the more creative players, such as Wes, the confidence to try something a little different every now and again.

Finally, the inclusion of Chris Martin on Saturday as a second deep lying attacker gave Rovers something else to think about and made it more difficult to stick an extra man on Hoolahan. The pair of them in tandem behind a target man such as Grant Holt will be a handful for any team in this division.

So in conclusion although I am a huge fan of Wes, and I''m very pleased that more and more people are coming round to my point of view, we should not ignore the other factors that have led to his improvement in recent weeks. In essence that is exactly what I have been arguing for the past month or so. If you set your team up correctly and get the ball to him in the right areas then he has the potential to be one of the best players in the league. People who were writing him off based on his goal scoring and assist statistics after playing almost all of his City career as a left sided midfielder seemed to missing this point.

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Good post Shack. the thing is that Wes is, and always will be, a one-off. The problem that Lambert had when he came was that we needed to tighten up and develop a system, which is a situation that requires conformity, hence Wes'' exclusion. Now we have that system working properly we can accomodate a mercurial player like Wes because now he becomes a dangerous wild card for the opposition, but no real risk to us, because he is kept away from areas where he could be . Great management by Lambert and Culverhouse and great attitude by Wes to stick it out.

One other point, which we debated a few weeks back, is that I feel that Wes feeds off confidence around him, something we now have in spades.

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Wes has been fantastic lately, he likes it here and I think he has a chance at inspiring us to promotion, this new 4-3-3/ Diamond formation is working very well, long may it continue.

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

Good post Shack. the thing is that Wes is, and always will be, a one-off. The problem that Lambert had when he came was that we needed to tighten up and develop a system, which is a situation that requires conformity, hence Wes'' exclusion. Now we have that system working properly we can accomodate a mercurial player like Wes because now he becomes a dangerous wild card for the opposition, but no real risk to us, because he is kept away from areas where he could be . Great management by Lambert and Culverhouse and great attitude by Wes to stick it out.

One other point, which we debated a few weeks back, is that I feel that Wes feeds off confidence around him, something we now have in spades.

[/quote]

I agree completely. When Lambert first arrived  we needed some solidity and it was no surprise that he picked reasonably conservative teams with two banks of four in midfield and defence. My concern then was that he would freeze Hoolahan out completely by not even picking him in the squad but as you say he must have displayed a good attitude in the reserves.

Agree with your second point too and maybe you could go further and suggest that he needs to have confidence in his team mates too. Is that why he hangs on to the ball too long sometimes? He seemed to have no issue with playing the ball first time to the likes of Lappin, Holt and Martin on Saturday and then moving into space for the return ball. Does the inclusion of such players, along with the fact that Russell and Smith seem to use the ball quite economically, take the pressure off him to a certain extent?

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

See Smudger it''s not that difficult [;)]

A few decent points raised in this thread already. Firstly, if you have a creative player who on occasions has the tendency to give the ball away whilst trying something a little different you want to get him as far away from your goal as possible. You also don''t want to stifle his creativity by sticking him out on the left wing. Credit to Paul Lambert for giving him what is essentially a free role and one where he can link play between the defence and attack.

Secondly, his work rate when he loses the ball in the final third seems to have improved dramatically. In the second half on Saturday he was constantly buzzing around the Rovers defence when we lost the ball and this pressing high up the field helps us turnover possesion in more advanced areas. He doesn''t throw himself around as much as Grant Holt but sometimes all you need to do is apply a little pressure. Time after time on Saturday this led to Rovers hoofing the ball straight down the throats of Askou and Doc which obviously plays to their strengths.

Thirdly, the performances of Smith and Russell in more defensive midfield roles are providing him with a very solid platform. Smith looks every inch the modern day central midfielder and Russell seems to have taken on board what his role in the team is (win possession, give ball to better passer than me and get ready to shield defence if we lose it). If he can continue in that role then it gives the more creative players, such as Wes, the confidence to try something a little different every now and again.

Finally, the inclusion of Chris Martin on Saturday as a second deep lying attacker gave Rovers something else to think about and made it more difficult to stick an extra man on Hoolahan. The pair of them in tandem behind a target man such as Grant Holt will be a handful for any team in this division.

So in conclusion although I am a huge fan of Wes, and I''m very pleased that more and more people are coming round to my point of view, we should not ignore the other factors that have led to his improvement in recent weeks. In essence that is exactly what I have been arguing for the past month or so. If you set your team up correctly and get the ball to him in the right areas then he has the potential to be one of the best players in the league. People who were writing him off based on his goal scoring and assist statistics after playing almost all of his City career as a left sided midfielder seemed to missing this point.

[/quote]

While you fail to accept the point that if Lambert had been allowed to bring his own players in by now then we would be unlikely to be having this discussion.

Let''s wait and see if Hoolahan can make it in to Lamberts team once he has been allowed to sign 3 or 4 players in January before you present him with the Barry Butler Trophy shall we???

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[quote user="Smudger"]

While you fail to accept the point that if Lambert had been allowed to bring his own players in by now then we would be unlikely to be having this discussion.

Let''s wait and see if Hoolahan can make it in to Lamberts team once he has been allowed to sign 3 or 4 players in January before you present him with the Barry Butler Trophy shall we???

[/quote]

The problem here Smudge is that all the points that I have raised can be debated, and disagreed with if you so wish, by anyone who was at the game on Saturday. Your assumption that he wouldn''t be here if PL had have brought in his own players is pure conjecture on your part. There''s no point in even discussing it. Plus I find it hard to believe that if PL really didn''t rate Hoolahan he would change the formation of his team to accomodate him.

He''s playing well at the minute and I really fail to see why you can''t be happy with that. Changing your mind about something isn''t a sign of weakness you know. I never really rated Lappin before but I''ve been impressed by most of his performances I''ve seen this season.

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I have to add I was wrong about him too, always thought he flattered to deceive and would have been quite happy to see him go in the summer to allow money to be spent elsewhere, but having seen Gillingham away, Orient and Rovers at home I''m happy to admit I was wrong....Rovers had no answer to him in that position, his faults (pace, ability to give the ball way simply don''t hurt us there, in the way they did on the left).

Credit has to be given to Lambert for the way he''s handled him and is bringing the best out of both him and Russell (who I though was a revelation as a defensive midfielder on Saturday) 

However to add to another point in this discussion, Lappin remains a big weakness for me, started the season well, but if we continue to play the same formation I''d have Hughes in for him asap.

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Lambert has finally done what previous managers failed to do.Played Wes in the best position. In the hole behind 2 strikers with a defensive midfield 3 behind him. And look at the results, 9 goals.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Smudger"]

While you fail to accept the point that if Lambert had been allowed to bring his own players in by now then we would be unlikely to be having this discussion.

Let''s wait and see if Hoolahan can make it in to Lamberts team once he has been allowed to sign 3 or 4 players in January before you present him with the Barry Butler Trophy shall we???

[/quote]

The problem here Smudge is that all the points that I have raised can be debated, and disagreed with if you so wish, by anyone who was at the game on Saturday. Your assumption that he wouldn''t be here if PL had have brought in his own players is pure conjecture on your part. There''s no point in even discussing it. Plus I find it hard to believe that if PL really didn''t rate Hoolahan he would change the formation of his team to accomodate him.

He''s playing well at the minute and I really fail to see why you can''t be happy with that. Changing your mind about something isn''t a sign of weakness you know. I never really rated Lappin before but I''ve been impressed by most of his performances I''ve seen this season.

[/quote]

I still don''t rate Lappin... where as you no doub''t were singing his praises after just one good performance and a couple of ok ones before returning to his usual standard?

It is the same with Hoolahan in my opinion.

If we look at the facts then Chris Martin or Cody McDonald have offered about as much as Hoolahan has this season in a fraction of the pitch time that he has had.

I don''t really expect to see Hoolahan or Lappin in our team come the end of the season.

I do not know if you went to Gillingham or not?  But Grant Holt actually had to give Hoolahan a good telling off for being a lazy little sod.  I don''t doub''t that Hoolahan can do a job for us at this level if he is on top of his game (like many of our players).  Half the problem with Hoolahan in my opinion is his lack of ability and the other half of his problem is that he seems to think that he is better than what he is.  I for one do not like lazy players.  The facts are that he has yet to play at much of a higher level than he is currently playing at and it seems to me that unless his manager or captain are constantly geeing him up then he slips back in to his old habits.

I have no problem admitting that I am wrong when I believe that I am wrong SHACK.  You may be happy to proclaim Hoolahan one of the best players in this league and give him the player of the season trophy after a couple of reasonable performances.  If he wishes to convert this critic though then it will take a lot more than he has done for us so far. 

When he has scored about 15 league goals and played most of the matches for a team that has actually won promotion for us, then come and tell me that I am wrong then at the end of the season... [;)]

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[quote user="Smudger"]

I still don''t rate Lappin... where as you no doub''t were singing his praises after just one good performance and a couple of ok ones before returning to his usual standard?

[/quote]

I''ve never really ''sung his praises'' but he''s done a decent enough job for us so far this season. Previously I thought he was pretty useless. That''s all.

[quote user="Smudger"]

If we look at the facts then Chris Martin or Cody McDonald have offered about as much as Hoolahan has this season in a fraction of the pitch time that he has had.

[/quote]

What ''facts''? The performances of Chris Martin (in tandem with Hoolahan in the past two league games)have been hugely important to our progress but I''ve not noticed Cody McDonald making the same impact.

[quote user="Smudger"]

I do not know if you went to Gillingham or not?  But Grant Holt actually had to give Hoolahan a good telling off for being a lazy little sod.  I don''t doub''t that Hoolahan can do a job for us at this level if he is on top of his game (like many of our players).  Half the problem with Hoolahan in my opinion is his lack of ability and the other half of his problem is that he seems to think that he is better than what he is.  I for one do not like lazy players.  The facts are that he has yet to play at much of a higher level than he is currently playing at and it seems to me that unless his manager or captain are constantly geeing him up then he slips back in to his old habits.

[/quote]

I wasn''t at Gillingham so I''ll take your word for it. The Gillingham manager seemed pretty impressed with his performance though. He even praised his work rate. Not bad for a lazy little sod [:P]

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/Sport/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=Sport&itemid=NOED28%20Sep%202009%2012%3A20%3A17%3A090

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[quote user="king canary"]I dont think we will see a single midfielder in this division finishing the season with 15 goals, promotion or not.
[/quote]

Midfielder or Striker... what is his position exactly?

If we are to be promoted then we need somebody who along with Holt will probably hit 20+

If we are going t o continue playing the current formation then that would probably mean Martin and Hoolahan would have to contribute between 10 and 15 each.

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