What's wrong with moaning?

[Richard Lovett 0]

The last few days the majoroty has been about the fans slating the players and how wrong it is. When we win, we cheer, and people moan if we don''t. So if we play bad, why can''t we moan? After shelling out for a season ticket, and all the other bits and bobs, eveyone is entitled to there own opinion. And if a player is playing bad, especialy consistantly bad, then why can''t we let them know what we think?

If you want to give £5k a week, I''ll let you call me what you want!!!

[MadDan 0]

" If you want to give £5k a week, I''ll let you call me what you want!!! "

I think many of us will without the need to give you £5k a week.

What, I might ask you is what you think you are achieving by shouting personal abuse at players ? (Other than to confirm what other fans around you might already think of you !)

I can''t really think of any player who is going to play better as a response to the idiotic rantings of some herbert in row f. Quite the opposite I would suggest.

If you are a season ticket holder and a genuine City fan then you''ll know that you sign up for better or worse. The better or worse is not necessarily through game to game but over the seasons.

Worse is us stuck down here with the no hopers, failures and has beens.

Better is back where we belong.

Shouting out what is usually blinding obvious to the rest of the crowd and often the player concerned is not going to help however much it might relieve your frustration.

Almost all of us can see who is not up to scratch, it''s just we choose a different method to get them to step up a gear.

If you want something to moan about then wait to see if we don''t go up in May- then you''ll have all summer to moan.

And all summer to reflect on how much your contribution added to that failure.



ps if you want to go to a football ground where moaning and abusing the players is routine practice then head off for Poorman Rd - because they certainly ain''t going to see the premiership again

[YankeeCanary 0]

It only depends on what your objective is Richard ( and the objective of each individual fan ). If your need is to moan when they do poorly it''s certainly understandable and your right. If your objective, however, is to spur them on to promotion, probably we all know that positive reinforcement is more likely to have the desired effect.

[Mook 0]

Bang on, YC, absolutely bang on. Moaning may make the supporter feel better (or not, as the case may be) but it certainly does nothing for the team.

And if you want to do nothing for the team, then why bother shelling out for a season ticket?

[First Wizard 0]

Oh it now appears it is perfectly understandable to moan, unless of course your name is 1st wizard that is!!.

I wet myself when I read that one, in fact the tears are still running down my legs now. I got crucifed on here for moaning, now its understandable because a certain person says so. What an idiot and fool he really is, still give em'' enough rope I suppose.

Mind you when you don''t even go to games, I suppose its understandable that MR Coventry gets spiteful and illogical at times.

Can''t wait for his next rant!.

[Mook 0]

Chill Wiz. I think he''s saying if you really have to moan then go ahead, but it won''t do you or the team any good. I think you''re being spiteful yourself now.

[Matt Jones 0]

"Can''t wait for his next rant!."

Rant?? Yankee Canary posts a conciliatory and reasonable message SUPPORTING your position, and you respond by calling him "..an idiot and a fool"?

Give it up man, you are beginning to sound utterly pathetic....

[First Wizard 0]

Hi Matt, all good points, however he''s now advocating exactly what he condemed me for in previous threads!. And I just can''t get my head around his almost pathilogial rants, for thats what they are, in previous threads against that valuable poster, Diane. And I''m not having it!.

Now if his witch hunt against her is called off, then I might hold back myself. Now I can fend for myself, no problem. In fact I enjoy a good laugh, maybe in a perverse way I even enjoy his ludite thought pattens, but why he''s seems to single her out is quite beyond me?.

Now unless anyone else on here is prepared to back her up, I''ll have to do it alone, and no, I don''t know who she is, but I''ve always enjoyed her posts, and it ain''''t fair.

So before you start calling me pathetic, research the history on here, and find out just what this moron has said in the past to others, Its damn hurtful to them Matt.

In closing I would never dream of calling you pathetic, you have''nt as yet insulted female city fans on here yet, so please bear that in mind for the future.

With great respect Matt. 1st Wizard.

[nottingham nick 0]

The problem with moaning is that really at the moment we honestly have nothing to moan about.
Living in Nottingham I am surrounded by Forest, Derby and Notts County supporters. Now they DO have something to moan about.
Don''t forget that early September we were talking about having to start scoring goals soon otherwise this season we would be fighting relegation.
I was totally depressed about the football after losing to Forest (including Greeno give away goal to Johnson) and Northampton.
Now look at the league, Norwich on top, Forest near the bottom.

So I say don''t get onto Huckerby, Hendo, Worthy etc. Just appreciate where we could be without Huckerby, Crouch, Harper, Francis etc etc.

[beelsie 0]

I suppose that it depends on whether the so called rant or moan is constructive or not. The team is in my opinion a group of talented people who are by all standards expected, unless injured, to work hard at their game and consistantly produce good results to their capability. When players are consistantly shirking their responsibilities on the pitch. It is necessary that they are confronted by the management staff and told how they must improve their output, and if necessary told how it can be done and what efforts are to be expected if they are to retain their jobs as footballers. Presumably a player will address a situation with management if there is a pay discrepancy or any thing that is causing grief to himself or his family. Nigel Worthington seems to be a fair minded man when he deals with the media. I would think that it is likely that, if we are to go by accolades from the others in the management team I would also say that is their opinion too.
I know that when I was in business, my people were to a great degree extremely good in recognising their duties to our customers; if there was an odd occasion when a slip up occured then we would talk about it and make sure that with good management it would not occur again, and that the customer was not the looser in any way. In thirty four years in business I had only to give notice to two employees, they slipped up too often for our standards. If kept on they would have endangered the reputation of the business. So it is with any occupation, football included. To put things in perspective, I doubt that our board criticisms are even read by the players, therefore they have no effect on them at all. When we then talk about the poor attitude of the voiciferous few who moan at the players on the field undermining the performance and the players confidence, this is another matter. Any criticism of a NCFC player while on the pitch should be left to the manager and coaching staff. After all that is what they are paid for. I thought that the contributions to the boards was a source for spectators criticisms and praises to be aired about the efforts by the players in reasonably civilised way. Best wishes, Beelsie

[Mook 0]

I agree with all you''ve said Beelsie, but I think the original post was "If I spend money on going to a match, then why can''t I shout at the players having a bad game?". And the reason is that it does NO good at all, for the team, the staff and the rest of the crowd.

However, coming on a message board and moaning is perfectly allowed and is a good way of venting the frustration that can be felt after watching your team under-perform. It is also a good way of gaining some perspective on your depression, as I''m sure Mr Wizard felt after "learning" that everything was going to be just fine!

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

It''s interesting how differently we all define criticism. Personally, I don''t feel that shouting ''get forward'' at Hendo or whomever every now and again is a criticism - it''s a kind of constructive encouragement. There''s a difference between that and - as I was ashamed to witness on Saturday - hurling a torrent of abuse and filth at Mark Rivers after his excellent corner was well taken by Bradford''s ''keeper. The poor bloke was still in earshot as this ''fan'' decided to blame all of our defeats / bad performances / his own lack of sexual prowess on Mark Rivers. Quite unnecessary.

Which brings me to our dear old 1stWiz. Eager though I am to read all of your posts, it''s getting a little tiresome that the majority of your stuff is about how much offence you''ve taken to someone else''s ''criticism'' of the things you have to say. You''ve got some great things to say about football mate, but if someone disagrees with you, please spare us the tirade of ''I''m allowed my say etc etc''. No-one''s disputing your right to say what you want but please don''t think people hate you. You have your opinions about football, as do we all, but it''s not personal! Hell, I don''t rate Phil Mulryne as much of a team player but it doesn''t mean I take great personal offence to his mere existence! It''s just my opinion!

So please old friend, start enjoying the brilliant banter we all have on this site and keep giving us your opinions, ''cos they certainly get us talking, but remember, we all love the Yellow and Green and that makes us all friends.

OTBC

[YankeeCanary 0]

Wizard, think carefully before you speak next as you are getting awfully close to bringing me out of Coventry ( which you decided all on your own to impose ). With respect to my reaction to Richard on this thread vs the reaction to your moaning; if you can sit back and think for a few minutes the extremity of your reaction on the loss to Bradford was far more extreme than what was stated by Richard on this thread, and other posters reacted to you accordingly. Before "giving up the ghost" you then isulted people further and that was not appreciated either. Ultimately realizing the population at large was against you, you ultimately offer an apology. Your apology rings hollow, however, when you come on this thread and again whine at the reaction to your moaning. You then go on the attack against me again engaging in name calling which, ironically, is what you accuse me of, telling others to research the history on this board. I advise you to do the same. I have had two basic criticisms of others since joining this board and I try to do it constructively and without bad language. One was to single out a small group ( of which you are a part ) for appearing to want to claim more credit than deserved regarding the pursuit of Darren Huckerby. I was not the only one doing that by the way. Second was to point out to cityangel ( consistently ) that this board is made up of a lot of people with different points of view and not just for those that enjoy a like point of view, so I asked her to refrain from telling people to go play somewhere else. Finally, while I understand your "gallant knight" defense of females ( "I won''t have it" was your comment ), it should make no difference if a poster is male or female. Everything on here is fair game for constructive criticism regardless of the source.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

Oh dear this thread is (if I may say so without upsetting the ladies?) a clear case of handbags! So let me pick up my crocodile skin handbag and join in.

I disagree with all of you sometimes and I dare say you do with me, so thats why I come on here. You get little new information, little "expert" opinion but you do get humour, different viewpoints, and some good banter and a little nastiness which if done funnily I still quietly smile at.

So thanks to all of you and keep writing in the same vein and I will too, and yes that will be criticising all in sundry, and praising too!

Be happy and if you can''t, don''t stop me being happy!

[HERALDO 0]

With great respect 1st Wiz I have been reading your rants and moans and have sympathy with some of your views. What is worrying me is the fact that despite our league position at present you and others criticise the players to a degree that it can only affect their attitude and form if they read this board.

What I find totally unacceptable is the abuse levelled at players at the ground if they have a bad five minute spell. The latest is poor Hendo who has been moaned at for not taking on players when I believe he has possibly been told not to-the evidence is his performance at Everton-He ran at their defence in the second half and scared the living daylights out of them. I thought he was Huckerby in disguise! Lets comment constructively on this board and get behind all the players on the pitch especially Rivers and Easton. Look what the crowd chanting Flemings name has done for his recent performances.

I speculate why this is happening and would offer the following explanation. There is climate change, the En Ninyo effect and worries over genetically modified food. I suspect that there is another genetic effect - genetically modified supporters where a rogue gene has infiltrated some supporters from individuals who mainly come from the south but support ITFC. I have supported NCFC for over 40 years (sorry) and up to twenty years ago it was always known that as soon as a Town player played badly the crowd would moan and get on his back and this continues today. This never happened at Carrow Road until the last 10 years so how can this trait be reversed?

I have an answer also. Unless some fairy godfather or godmother injects £1m plus into the ITFC share issue it could fail to reach the initial £1.25m target so that all monies have to be returned. This could lead to insolvency and ITFC being wound up as well as perhaps LEEDS. City supporters would then realise how lucky they are and the gene would regress.

Perhaps Master Green, Old Boy and Nottingham canary who have also supported City for over 40 years might also like to comment. Wiz since you live in Suffolk the bad gene has less distance to travel as well as for Bury Belvoir and Bury Green who sometimes suffer from its effects. As for me, also now living in Suffolk and having been conceived within a stones throw of The Nest, I have an immunity. Sensible comments please!

[StevenageFan 0]

Now before anyone says it, yes this only my second post, but I have been reading the boards for ages now and:
Yankee and Wizard, you two really should get a room, it is obvious you are madly in love with each other and just have pent up sexual frustration, sort it out and stop stealing other peoples threads.

Back onto the original topic which I believe is what''s wrong with moaning?

There is nothing wrong with moaning (especially if your partner is naked, sorry couldn''t resist), expressing a difference of opinion or whatever, on this message board as that is exactly what they are intended for. However moaning and shouting at a player, in agreement with Mook and others, achieves nothing.

I am Manager/Secretary/Chairman/Coach of two Sunday League Football teams and have been for some years now. Giving a player abuse really doesn''t achieve anything apart from denting his/her confidence. It doesn''t matter whether they earn £5K a week or whether they have to pay me £3 a week to play. They are still human beings. The majority of us take personal criticism badly, there are a lucky few that rise above it and put it about next time, but on the most part if someone abuses you, you get upset.
This is one of the first things you learn when you take the FA Coaching courses. The FA absolutely hate parents that scream at their kids from the sideline when they mess up, becuase at a young age it can make or break a player. Now Hendo is only 18, he is still only a young player and can still be affected by what people say about him.

Now it is completely different when the boss has a major go at the whole team together as this can inspire some team spirit. Most Managers if they want to keep a player positive will not criticise him/her in front of the team, it will be a 1-2-1 quietly and this is the case in all walks of life. It is the Managers job to point out where a player is going wrong, not the fans.

So next time you hurl abuse at someone that you feel should be performing better because you bought a season ticket a) stop to think how you would react if your boss shouted similar at you in front of all your work mates (assuming you have a job, no offence) and b) think when we get promoted will your abuse of the players have anything to do with it??? NO!!
Also if you don''t want your ticket, I''ll have it off ya.

[HERALDO 0]

Stevenage Fan
Absolutely spot on - total common sense. Ist Wiz please read, digest and consider-but still keep posting.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Thank you for your comment Stevenage Fan. I agree with the basic thrust of your message and will do my best to respect the original subject for each thread... but, please forgive me for pointing out that on this thread alone I have been called an idiot, a fool, a pathological ranter, a moron, and now you weigh in with my pent-up sexual frustration. I am a mere mortal and do feel the need to indicate there is blood running through my veins on occasion.

[Herb 0]

If people want to moan in here, providing its constructive and they have an alternate solution to offer its fine. I''m sure most of the players have better things to do than read these forums considering the money they earn. If not they need to get themselves an imagination ;)

Getting on the players backs during a match is another thing entirely. The so called fans who were having a go at Henderson on Saturday were bang out of line.
Is no one allowed to have a bad game anymore?
If you want the team to succeed they need support, not abuse. I''ve seen first hand how a team can be lifted to a higher lvel by the crowd.
Get behind the lads!

Herb

[Tilt 12]

This is certainly a lively messageboard (!)

On the issue of moaning the points set out by YC and Mook sum up my opinion. While I may not agree with all of his posts I find YC''s opinions to be well written and interesting.

Now to address the slightly strange "Witch hunt" analogy suggested earlier: The criticism levelled at Diane for constantly disrupting threads with her own personel messages I believe was fair and should not be an issue that is constantly brought up. As set out clearly in other posts a coherent argument is much easier to follow than random, scattered posts. It was nothing more than criticism designed to improve the board for the majority of users. You say you want it put to rest? Then stop bringing it up!

[StevenageFan 0]

Yank,
was tounge in cheek humour, I am sure you are sexually active really, ;-)

[First Wizard 0]

Hi Yankee my dear old friend, now wether you believe this or not I really don''t care, but I actually found your thread quite well thought out this time. Whilst I may admit at times I have gone ''over board'' in replies to you, as I''ve stated on other threads, I do tend to do that, sorry, and yes that is, I assure you, meant sincerely.

Now I must say that I have begrudgingly admired your tenacity, although I won''t dwell, if you don''t mind, on your sexual activity (YUK). But its reached the point now where we will never, ever agree on anything, so in the interest of these boards and fellow posters sanity, who I respect greatly, I shall in future try and refrain from mud slinging in your direction, and try to be a bit more respectful towards you views, OK.

Now I don''t believe I can be fairer than that do you?, but I really do enjoy Diane''s posts, and I get a little ''wound up'' when she is attacked by you, which I felt was harshly delivered. But this does''nt mean a climb down on my part, far from it. I still disagree strongly, with many of your past posts, and will continue to do so, when I have no doubt, the occassion arises. But I shall try and be a bit more respectful to your views, OK. Have a nice day now!.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Well, gee W(h)iz, wow, shucks, omigosh, I''m speechless! You must have taken a pill. I''m not sure I can be quite as gracious as you Wizard. Also, I don''t know that I can quite bury the hatchet but I do agree to cover the blade for a day or two ( other than for the following ). You must have been a rum old feller to live with all these years with the breadth of emotional swing you appear to generate. I am assuming of course you were able to find someone to put up with you, no offense intended, of course. Just morbid curiosity on my part. I just added this last bit because I needed to inject a little complaining so I can maintain integrity on the subject thread.

[First Wizard 0]

Hi YC to satisfy you morbid curiosty, can I quote my dear wife of 34 years ''Dear, you are a right pain in the a**e to live with some times'', God, the woman''s a saint I tell you. But thats me, an emotional coaster ride, but in the end, a really nice bloke, until I throw my toys out of the pram again.

And of course YC, I could find someone to put up with me (Cheeky), because (A) I''m very good looking, (B) well built (C) generous and (D) modest with it.

And no, I''m not on pills, but am chilling out a little, and at the moment my sword is gently resting in its scabbard, but.............................

As for mainting integrity of the thread, I trust you have someone to put up with you as well, thats if they can get a word in, sorry, I could''nt resist that one, no offence intened, I don''t think so anyway.

[First Wizard 0]

To myself, check your spelling more carefully next time please.

[Beaker 0]

just for you cityangel you lovely old bint