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a1canary

We should use the Doc as cover while he's here

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After looking unusually blessed in the centre back department at the start of the season - Askou, Nelson, Doc, Spillane, Dejan - we''re now down to just 2 seniors counting injuries, departures and imminent departures/cast offs. Not wishing to ignore upcoming youth products like Stephens and Dumic (indeed, it would appear Lambert is prepared to rely on these for cover), i think there''s a case to include the Doc in the travelling party to Kent. He''s offered himself and i think he''s professional enough to do a job if asked. I think he and Theoklitos have become the scapegoats for "7-1" largely because they haven''t played since. Nelson had as bad a game as anyone that day but has had the chance to put it right.

Will be interesting to see who we do take as cover at CB.

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How many other horrible games did nelson have for Norwich over the last 4 years? Was the 7 goal disaster D''OHerty''s first bad game and he never got another look like it was for Theokillingus?  And does Theocollisioncourse look like much in practice, because if he doesn''t, he should not be on the team.

Oh wait, I think I just answered all my questions.

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[quote user="a1canary"]After looking unusually blessed in the centre back department at the start of the season - Askou, Nelson, Doc, Spillane, Dejan - we''re now down to just 2 seniors counting injuries, departures and imminent departures/cast offs. Not wishing to ignore upcoming youth products like Stephens and Dumic (indeed, it would appear Lambert is prepared to rely on these for cover), i think there''s a case to include the Doc in the travelling party to Kent. He''s offered himself and i think he''s professional enough to do a job if asked. I think he and Theoklitos have become the scapegoats for "7-1" largely because they haven''t played since. Nelson had as bad a game as anyone that day but has had the chance to put it right. Will be interesting to see who we do take as cover at CB.[/quote]

You just have to be kidding...........oh no.............youre  not!

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"I think he and Theoklitos have become the scapegoats for "7-1" largely because they haven''t played since."Nope - Doc was in the starting 11 for quite a few games after the ColU disaster... Lambert had a few chances to look him over and came to the conculsion that most of us fans had about him all along...

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While I agree in general, and he should be used seeing as he is under contract, it clearly would not work.  Doherty has admitted publicly that his time is up, and to now stick him back in the team could be counter-productive.  My views on Donkerty have been very strong in the past, but I can see where you are coming from, and if needs be then why not put him back in, but I just don''t see it working out.

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Hmm, fair enough, got that wrong on reflection. Look, i''m not saying we shouldn''t be moving him on, i''m more talking about the lack of cover we have at CB right now.

One injury to Jens or Spillane, and who would you put in there. Another 17 year old or an experienced player like Doc. Defence is probably not the best position to be trying out your academy prospects.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Hmm, fair enough, got that wrong on reflection. Look, i''m not saying we shouldn''t be moving him on, i''m more talking about the lack of cover we have at CB right now.

One injury to Jens or Spillane, and who would you put in there. Another 17 year old or an experienced player like Doc. Defence is probably not the best position to be trying out your academy prospects.[/quote]And that is where  I agree with you, but like I said I also think it could be counter-productive to the team in general.

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[quote user="Yellow Submarine"]Doherty is pushing trolleys at Tesco so he''d have to give them four weeks notice![/quote]

what? as well as carpark attendant in Beccles, Skylarking hey. 

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[quote user="a1canary"]Some rant i didnt bother reading due to the fact that Doc is a liability and Laughed at the mere idea !.[/quote]

ARE YOU DOC IN DISGUISEARE YOU DOC, IN DISGUISE ?

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Or should we cover the Doc whilst he''s here?

Won''t be long until somebody fancies him. I mean Worthy, Grant, Roeder and Gunn all did, so........... 

OTBC

 

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I can''t imagine that the Doc will want to provide any cover for us now that he''s been told hes surplus to requirements.

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[quote user="cityangel"]I can''t imagine that the Doc will want to provide any cover for us now that he''s been told hes surplus to requirements.[/quote]

Why not, he''s getting paid handsomely isn''t he?

Unless he''d be reluctant to show off his talents in the shop window?

OTBC

 

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Hmmm, i think this post merits a boost!

I still think he''s been made a scapegoat for 7-1 and treated unfairly since being told he''s not wanted. Like i said here, he can still help us out and, as last night proved, is professional enough to go out there and perform for NCFC.

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And to think I once had the cheek to call you Gingerist[;)]

But seriously now - what happens if the cover proves yet again to be the best option? Where do Lambert and those who hailed his decison to cut the Doc adrift go from there?

[;)]

 

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Don''t get me wrong Nutty - IF we have to lose one of Spillane, Nelson, Doc and Askou, in order to balance the books, it would be close between Nelson and the Doc and i would go along with whoever the manager chooses out of those two. Unfortunately it''s a financial decision as much as a football one and you can be sure Doc is on more than Nelson. So if Lambert goes with Doc, I''ll go along with that.

The point of this thread was that while he''s still here and we''re down on central defenders, he''s a useful option to have that we should use if we need to. And Lambert clearly came to the same conclusion. But i don''t expect him (or McNally to allow him) to change his mind.

I do also think the reaction of some fans to him being told he can leave has been disrespectful and unnecessary to put it mildly.

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It''s interesting that it did seem as though we were going to have to lose Hoolahan and Doherty to balance the books. Hoolahan forced his way back in and Lambert made him part of his plans. I see no reason why Doc can''t do the same.

The problem with tailoring a side to balance the books is that you invariably end up with a side that is not capable of playing above the standard that you are balancing the books for. Wes and Doc are two players easily capable of playing Championship football. They are on Championship contracts. We will be left hoping that the players we bring through the academy are good enough to step up or we may never get out of this league.

 

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Can''t find anywhere a quote saying they were selling him to balance the books.

I think Lambert is being very clever and bringing a few players back to earth.

Russell, Wes and Doc have all had their cards marked. Perform how we want or get out.

I applaud the principal as watching the three of them last night put in a goos shift it obviously works.

Doc, MOM no, my vote went to young Smith who never stopped talking, shouting positioning his "elder" team mates and was again box to box.

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I''m not sure there was ever such a quote either so I hope you''re right Butler. This quote from Lambert fills me with optimism :-

 

Lambert said: "[Gary] hasn''t played for a long time but he did great - you have to earn your right to be in my side."

 

I haven''t been as easily won over by Lambert as some on here. Too many false dawns since Worthy. But I like this quote and it proves he has no agendas.

 

As a poster said on another thread, Steve I think, Lambert has made no signings and has to manage the players he inherited. I agree with his point that managers often play their own signings, regardless of others earning the right, in order to justify making the signing in the first place.

 

 

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It''s a policy that he got a little slated for at Colchester. Personally I have always felt that every player has to earn the right to be included in the team and there should not be any automatic places.  I think Lamberts earn the right to play policy is a good one and it seems like it''s now starting to produce the desired result. It''s shut Smudger up anyway.[;)]All he needs now is to teach Hoolahan he has 2 feet and we''ll be fireing on all cylinders.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]
Lambert said: "[Gary] hasn''t played for a long time but he did great - you have to earn your right to be in my side."

 

I haven''t been as easily won over by Lambert as some on here. Too many false dawns since Worthy. But I like this quote and it proves he has no agendas.

 
[/quote]+1Can''t put it any better. The jury has been out, but I''m starting to like his way with the players - tough, but nothing personal - and his tactical nous. Changes of shape to take advantage of certain situations, it''s a good, good sign.

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Who mentioned a quote?

It was reading between the lines from the clear availability of Hoolahan, Doherty and Russell during the transfer window. And from the fact, plain and simple, that our wage bill had become unsustainable under Roeder and that was in the Championship. Now we''ve gone down a division, this only amplifies the problem.

But while those players are here and we''re paying them, we should use them if they can perform for us, which is a conclusion that Lambert has clearly come to as one by one, all those players have made their way into the side. But i will eat my and anyone else''s hat if at least one of the three doesn''t move on in January unless we''re top of the league by then. We can NOT afford to keep them all, and Lambert can''t get in any players of his own without moving current squad members out. We''re in a one in one out situation now, of that i''m certain. That''s not to say we might not move out someone like Maric but that will limit the quality of who PL can bring in because he won''t be on as much.

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[quote user="IncH_HigH"]It''s a policy that he got a little slated for at Colchester. Personally I have always felt that every player has to earn the right to be included in the team and there should not be any automatic places.  I think Lamberts earn the right to play policy is a good one and it seems like it''s now starting to produce the desired result. It''s shut Smudger up anyway.[;)]

All he needs now is to teach Hoolahan he has 2 feet and we''ll be fireing on all cylinders.
[/quote]

I don''t think that is why he got slated at Colchester - there''s absolutely nothing wrong with every player having to earn the right and I suspect most Managers would say they all do this.  What upset "some" people at U''s was his complete banishment of what were considered by the supporters to be potentially good players - banished to youth training, no word from the Manager for literally weeks on end, and no explanation as to why.  At least three of the Siberians were in the squad which slaughtered Charlton last night. 

Hoolahan will tell you himself that he doesn''t have two feet and never will have in professional terms.  Probably because he learned his football without any formal coaching - in the streets of Dublin - and there was no one then to correct the situation.

The complaint of the Siberia Six was that he never explained to them what they had done wrong and therefore they had little chance of trying to improve to his standards.  His treatment of Elito was nothing short of scandalous - training with the England U19 squad and on the FA radar while being forced to train with Tiptree United and Halstead Town during the week because he was banned from being anywhere near the first team squad.  It''s one thing to do hard ball with some gnarled old pro - quite another to a kid of 18 I would say (and a kid who thought about quitting the game as a result).

It may be that he will take a more "mellow" approach your end. 

Boothroyd takes exactly the same approach to "winning the shirt" but says it is self harm to banish players from first team training because, as he says, if you need through injuries/suspensions to call on them (and none of us know what those will be) the incoming "replacement" will not be up to speed with whatever match tactics are being used and rehearsed on the training ground.

 

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]It''s a policy that he got a little slated for at Colchester. Personally I have always felt that every player has to earn the right to be included in the team and there should not be any automatic places.  I think Lamberts earn the right to play policy is a good one and it seems like it''s now starting to produce the desired result. It''s shut Smudger up anyway.[;)]All he needs now is to teach Hoolahan he has 2 feet and we''ll be fireing on all cylinders.[/quote]

I don''t think that is why he got slated at Colchester - there''s absolutely nothing wrong with every player having to earn the right and I suspect most Managers would say they all do this.  What upset "some" people at U''s was his complete banishment of what were considered by the supporters to be potentially good players - banished to youth training, no word from the Manager for literally weeks on end, and no explanation as to why.  At least three of the Siberians were in the squad which slaughtered Charlton last night. 

Hoolahan will tell you himself that he doesn''t have two feet and never will have in professional terms.  Probably because he learned his football without any formal coaching - in the streets of Dublin - and there was no one then to correct the situation.

The complaint of the Siberia Six was that he never explained to them what they had done wrong and therefore they had little chance of trying to improve to his standards.  His treatment of Elito was nothing short of scandalous - training with the England U19 squad and on the FA radar while being forced to train with Tiptree United and Halstead Town during the week because he was banned from being anywhere near the first team squad.  It''s one thing to do hard ball with some gnarled old pro - quite another to a kid of 18 I would say (and a kid who thought about quitting the game as a result).

It may be that he will take a more "mellow" approach your end. 

Boothroyd takes exactly the same approach to "winning the shirt" but says it is self harm to banish players from first team training because, as he says, if you need through injuries/suspensions to call on them (and none of us know what those will be) the incoming "replacement" will not be up to speed with whatever match tactics are being used and rehearsed on the training ground.

 

[/quote]Cam, sorry if this is blatantly obvious, but who are the Siberia six? I have tried the usual enquiry routes but alas no joy.

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[quote user="Fonejacker"][quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="IncH_HigH"]It''s a policy that he got a little slated for at Colchester. Personally I have always felt that every player has to earn the right to be included in the team and there should not be any automatic places.  I think Lamberts earn the right to play policy is a good one and it seems like it''s now starting to produce the desired result. It''s shut Smudger up anyway.[;)]

All he needs now is to teach Hoolahan he has 2 feet and we''ll be fireing on all cylinders.
[/quote]

I don''t think that is why he got slated at Colchester - there''s absolutely nothing wrong with every player having to earn the right and I suspect most Managers would say they all do this.  What upset "some" people at U''s was his complete banishment of what were considered by the supporters to be potentially good players - banished to youth training, no word from the Manager for literally weeks on end, and no explanation as to why.  At least three of the Siberians were in the squad which slaughtered Charlton last night. 

Hoolahan will tell you himself that he doesn''t have two feet and never will have in professional terms.  Probably because he learned his football without any formal coaching - in the streets of Dublin - and there was no one then to correct the situation.

The complaint of the Siberia Six was that he never explained to them what they had done wrong and therefore they had little chance of trying to improve to his standards.  His treatment of Elito was nothing short of scandalous - training with the England U19 squad and on the FA radar while being forced to train with Tiptree United and Halstead Town during the week because he was banned from being anywhere near the first team squad.  It''s one thing to do hard ball with some gnarled old pro - quite another to a kid of 18 I would say (and a kid who thought about quitting the game as a result).

It may be that he will take a more "mellow" approach your end. 

Boothroyd takes exactly the same approach to "winning the shirt" but says it is self harm to banish players from first team training because, as he says, if you need through injuries/suspensions to call on them (and none of us know what those will be) the incoming "replacement" will not be up to speed with whatever match tactics are being used and rehearsed on the training ground.

 

[/quote]

Cam, sorry if this is blatantly obvious, but who are the Siberia six? I have tried the usual enquiry routes but alas no joy.
[/quote]

Johnny White, Matt Lockwood, Phil Ifil, Medy Elito, Matt Heath, Jamie Guy - to which you could add Johnny Jackson who quit specifically over Lambo with the owner saying that had he known the Manager was leaving he wouldn''t have let him go.

Whitey played the entire game last night, Ifil, Heath and Elito used subs.  But all are now part of the training sessions which is what I personally think matters.  If they don''t get the shirt that is one thing (that''s football etc) but why you would need to take it further than that is not clear to me.

It is NOT to criticise Lambert''s view of them but to banish them from involvement at first team level is slightly unusual to say the least and with no explanation to the players concerned even more so.

 

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Is the Doc really free to leave?

I''m probably putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5, but it wouldn''t suprise me if this was a ploy by Lambert.  Lambert knows the Doc has the ability to perform, especially at this level, Lambert said the Doc had gone a bit stale, something which the Doc agreed with. 

Maybe this was Lambert''s plan to ''freshen'' him up, by telling him he is free to leave?

If it didn''t work, Lambert is justified with his decision to allow him to go.  If on the otherhand it did work, and the Doc starts performing a lot better, Lambert then has a decision to make come January if someone comes in for him, and even if the Doc did go in Jan, we would have benefitted from his improved performances prior to this.  Likewise, if the doc stayed till the end of the season, he would believe that the rest of the season would be his ''shop window'' to earn a deal at another club over the summer, which may lead to consistently improved performances.  If we found ourselves promoted at the end of the season and the Doc had been playing really well, it may be worth keeping him for the Championship season ahead.

Like I say, I''m probably jumping to assumptions, not only this, it shouldn''t take this to get a player to perform.

[*-)]

 

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