It's only results that matter....or is it?

[Yelverton Yella 0]

Why is it that some people seem to think

that to be decisive and successful, you have to be uncivilised and spiteful?

As I made clear at the time, whilst I

believe the decision to part company with Gunn was probably correct (he should

never have been appointed permanently in the first place), the timing and

manner of his dismissal was inept and unnecessary and reflects no credit on

McNally or the Board.

Lambert’s appointment and the whole way it

was handled frankly filled me with foreboding. Lambert may or may not be the

best manager in the League but to rush into an appointment without apparently

considering any other candidates whilst riding roughshod over the Board of

another club again to me demonstrates panic rather than cold logic and strategic

thinking.

I know some of you think these actions are

laudable and are a sign that we, as a club, have now grown ‘cojones’ and are

not to be trifled with but, with all my experience in business, (and I have

worked with and for some seriously nasty b**tards!) actions like this have a

nasty habit of rebounding in curious and unforeseen ways.

I also really hope that the stories of PL ‘freezing’

players out in order to precipitate a loan out or transfer are not true.

Behaviour like that was rightly condemned in Roeder and has a seriously bad

effect on morale and potential player recruitment.

The thing that really annoys me is that none

of the above behaviour was necessary. There were alternatives which would have

achieved the same result- possibly at the cost of a couple of day’s delay- but

would have retained the integrity of the club. Perhaps this is not important to

any of you but I have given my wholehearted support to the Club for the best

part of 50 years and, one reason for that support, has been the ability, by and

large, to identify with its values.

I am not a wimp and I want (demand) success

as much as anybody and I have said many times I would like to see new,

seriously wealthy, owners take over from DS and MWJ. I am not condemning PL’s

appointment- it would be unfair to judge for quite a while yet- all I am saying

is that, in the long run, you reap what you sow in business and in football and

I would not like to see us continue to feel we have to demonstrate machismo by

ignoring all the principles of good management which have stood the test of

time.

[Dronny Canary 0]

What would going through the whole process of applications and intreviews have achieved?  The same that that process did the previous times.  You end up appointing people who have the gift of the gab but who aren''t necessarily what you need.  This club was (and still is) in a very difficult position.  We moan when those in charge dither or fail to take decisive action.  On this occasion we had someone at board level who looked at the situation we were in and decided exactly the sort of person we needed to pull us out of the mess left by successive managers at this club and got it sorted.  It''s the way it works in the real world.

The "stories" of players being "frozen out" are just that...stories.  We rarely find out exactly what happens behind the scenes and the nature of the relationship between manager and player.  I suspect nothing is as straightforward as a lot of us think and it is pretty obvious that Lambert needs to move some of our more "expensive" players on before he can bring in the players needed to strengthen our squad.  I suspect a lot of our extremely well paid players aren''t quite as fussed about how the manager is to them personally as long as they keep getting their fat cheques through the post!

[Camuldonum 0]

[:|]

[Superflash 0]

[quote user="Yelverton Yella"]

Why is it that some people seem to think

that to be decisive and successful, you have to be uncivilised and spiteful?

As I made clear at the time, whilst I

believe the decision to part company with Gunn was probably correct (he should

never have been appointed permanently in the first place), the timing and

manner of his dismissal was inept and unnecessary and reflects no credit on

McNally or the Board.

Lambert’s appointment and the whole way it

was handled frankly filled me with foreboding. Lambert may or may not be the

best manager in the League but to rush into an appointment without apparently

considering any other candidates whilst riding roughshod over the Board of

another club again to me demonstrates panic rather than cold logic and strategic

thinking.

I know some of you think these actions are

laudable and are a sign that we, as a club, have now grown ‘cojones’ and are

not to be trifled with but, with all my experience in business, (and I have

worked with and for some seriously nasty b**tards!) actions like this have a

nasty habit of rebounding in curious and unforeseen ways.

I also really hope that the stories of PL ‘freezing’

players out in order to precipitate a loan out or transfer are not true.

Behaviour like that was rightly condemned in Roeder and has a seriously bad

effect on morale and potential player recruitment.

The thing that really annoys me is that none

of the above behaviour was necessary. There were alternatives which would have

achieved the same result- possibly at the cost of a couple of day’s delay- but

would have retained the integrity of the club. Perhaps this is not important to

any of you but I have given my wholehearted support to the Club for the best

part of 50 years and, one reason for that support, has been the ability, by and

large, to identify with its values.

I am not a wimp and I want (demand) success

as much as anybody and I have said many times I would like to see new,

seriously wealthy, owners take over from DS and MWJ. I am not condemning PL’s

appointment- it would be unfair to judge for quite a while yet- all I am saying

is that, in the long run, you reap what you sow in business and in football and

I would not like to see us continue to feel we have to demonstrate machismo by

ignoring all the principles of good management which have stood the test of

time.

[/quote]A good, well thought out post. In the spirit of debate I''d like to counter some of this.Whilst the timing was certainly a surprise, the short term shows us that McNally has probably got his tough decision correct. Lambert has produced three wins and a draw in 5 games, the only defeat being against a Premier League side. He''s made the relevant changes to the first team that were required and it''s paying dividends. I loved Gunn, I still think he could do a job. But McNally needed a safer bet. If Gunn had kept us in the Championship I''m sure he''d have gone on to keep us stabalised and so on. But in the position we are in, we need a manager who can actually get results. In the short term at least, Lambert is helping us do just that.Results absolutely matter, more than ever in the modern game. The competition in the English leagues gets tighter every year. Even in the Premier League, the big four compete in amongst each other and now Man City have been thrown in the mix as well. In the lower leagues, teams can start badly and end up winning the league. It''s all very well us losing a game and playing out of our skins, but if it happens continuously then something needs to be changed. Again, it''s quite surprising Gunn went after just one game, but the nature of that defeat against Colchester was awful. After all the optimism, signings, pre-season games etc that result us inexcusable. Yes, we bounced back in the cup. But to be fair McNally thought whilst it was still early in the season we could bring in a new manager now and pick up some crucial points for the potential promotion run in. Just because Gunn''s departure was quickly sorted with Lambert''s appointment doesn''t mean the board (or McNally, which appears to br the case here) decided it overnight. They will have almost certainly discussed it behind closed doors before deciding to act, despite Delia''s war cry not long before Gunn''s dismissal. I believe the integrity of the club in the eyes of others won''t take much of a battering. Our suppourters are regularly praised by other club''s fans and thus that is how our integrity will be measured. It won''t be because of our board.  

[Yelverton Yella 0]

Thanks to DC and Superflash for their rational and measured responses.The thing is, I don''t think we are disagreeing about the ''big'' decisions. I freely acknowledge that Gunn had to go. The mistake was the ridiculous, knee-jerk, appointment before the St Andrew''s Hall meeting and before the new Board had been appointed. The subsequent debacle against Colchester probably sealed Gunn''s fate but I still say the WAY in which Gunn was fired was inexcusable and simply not necessary. I don''t believe that the team performance the following day was enhanced by Gunn''s dismissal and, indeed, may have been adversely affected.Again, I am not objecting to Lambert''s swift appointment (although I hope it was based on more than just a reaction to the opening fixture) and, frankly, we must have interviewed or at least received applications from most potential managerial candidates over the last couple of years so we would know enough about most of them! Again, my issue is with how it was done. Surely, with some sensible and reasonable negotiation,we could have reached a compromise to allow PL to join within a few days rather than end up with a hugely confrontational situation. Apart from anything else, we are lucky that Colchester either chose not to or didn''t have the contractual right to enforce ''gardening leave'' for the notice period.I made it clear that the ''freezing out'' stories are hearsay and was expressing a hope that the current manager would not repeat the mistakes of one of his predecessors (ask Lappin whether this is good management!).The main point I was trying to get across is that it is perfectly possible to be ''decisive and positive'' (and God knows, we have had enough of ''weak and woolly'' thinking from our Board!) without deliberately alienating people with whom we may want / need to deal in future!

[canary cherub 1]

The "confrontation" was set up by Colchester for refusing Lambert permission to speak, thereby precipitating his resignation.  They probably thought they were dealing with the old Norwich, who would have said "sorry to have troubled you" and put the phone down.  They may be the injured party but they''ve done themselves no favours imo. 

I don''t think we''ve "deliberately" alienated anyone.  You can''t expect Colchester to be pleased about it but that''s football.  Should Lambert prove to be a success I confidently predict that the same thing will happen to us at some stage.  If it does we won''t have any excuse to start bleating, and a good thing too.  No more "poor little us, we can''t compete with all these nasty clubs" thank you.

It''s not a case of the club growing a pair but simply rejoining the wider football community instead of trying to be a little island of niceness in a world of our own.  Isolating ourselves from the mainstream has alienated us from "people with whom we may need to deal" just as much, if not more, than nicking Colchester''s manager.  I''m not defending it, but it''s high time we got real. 

There''s no doubt that Lambert''s appointment was made in haste, and I hope the board found time to tell him the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about our financial situation, otherwise we could have another Martin O''Neill scenario on our hands.  That''s what concerns me now.

 

[nutty nigel 7,527]

I reckon Sir Arthur alienated Bournemouth all those years ago... mind you, we didn''t take everything... we let them keep the kit man[;)]

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I reckon Sir Arthur alienated Bournemouth all those years ago... mind you, we didn''t take everything... we let them keep the kit man[;)]

[/quote]

Fair point Nutty, at least we didn''t pinch any of Colchester''s players! 

Not for the want of trying I suspect.  Lambert said at one point that we had to sell before we could buy, and in the end we didn''t sell.  I wonder how frustrated he''s feeling right now?

 

[The Butler 0]

It would be nice to think we have a manager that another club might want.

The last one, I think, was Walker and Everton for all the good that did him and them.

Certainly no one head hunted Roeder,Grant,Gunn,(Worthington) et al.

I put Worthington in brackets so as not to upset you know who!![:D]

The club is too steeped in it''s "nice" history to change for long. Like any person if you go against what you naturally are,it become obvious and you finally revert to type.

It''s not a question of "growing a pair" that''s for inexperienced juveniles. It''s what you can achieve with an iron fist in a velvet glove at the same time smiling that counts.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="The Butler"]

It would be nice to think we have a manager that another club might want.

The last one, I think, was Walker and Everton for all the good that did him and them.

Certainly no one head hunted Roeder,Grant,Gunn,(Worthington) et al.

I put Worthington in brackets so as not to upset you know who!![:D]

The club is too steeped in it''s "nice" history to change for long. Like any person if you go against what you naturally are,it become obvious and you finally revert to type.

It''s not a question of "growing a pair" that''s for inexperienced juveniles. It''s what you can achieve with an iron fist in a velvet glove at the same time smiling that counts.

[/quote]

I thought you put him in brackets because you realised you were wrong. I would say certainly he was head hunted.  Hugely respected in the game if not on this messageboard. [;)]

 

[ref89 0]

Of course it is only results that matter.  Gunn was crap and had to go.