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Hoolihan's worth to this team

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In my opinion he is a very weak player, who offers very little to the team. Good at going round in circles but nothing beyond that. No guile, no end product, no balls. Nothing. Sell him at the earliest opportunity i say.

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Who in our team this year can get you excited when they get the ball at their feet? IMO Hoolihan is the only one! I know he often does too much but the coaching staff should be hammering it into him to release the ball earlier.

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[quote user="Touching Cloth"]We''ll agree to disagree, Whaley is a much greater threat with the ball at his feet[/quote]

You are joking! The only threat that Whaley offers, when he has the ball at his feet, is to supporters behind the goal as he delivers yet another awful cross!

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[quote user="Touching Cloth"]In my opinion he is a very weak player, who offers very little to the team. Good at going round in circles but nothing beyond that. No guile, no end product, no balls. Nothing. Sell him at the earliest opportunity i say.[/quote]

It would have been more impressive had you managed to spell his name right.

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Had touching cloth actually seen a Norwich match this season he may realise that HoolAhan is actually a better player than Whaley, also the fact they play in different position doesn''t really help his case, as the comparison should be with our current and only (?) left winger Simon Lappin. Who are both completely different players so still the comparison is hard to make as HoolAhan''s best position would be sitting just off Grant Holt.

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[quote user="Touching Cloth"]In my opinion he is a very weak player, who offers very little to the team. Good at going round in circles but nothing beyond that. No guile, no end product, no balls. Nothing. Sell him at the earliest opportunity i say.[/quote]

Sorted.  I assume the Avatar is a personal portrait?

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[quote user="Zippy23255"]Who in our team this year can get you excited when they get the ball at their feet? IMO Hoolihan is the only one! I know he often does too much but the coaching staff should be hammering it into him to release the ball earlier.
[/quote]

 

cody macdonald??

 

i like hoolahan though [:D]

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[quote user="Touching Cloth"]In my opinion he is a very weak player, who offers very little to the team. Good at going round in circles but nothing beyond that. No guile, no end product, no balls. Nothing. Sell him at the earliest opportunity i say.[/quote]

 

To be honest you must be fairly thick not to recognise Hoolahan''s quality. Of course he is not the complete player but he offers something to the team that no other player possesses. The ability to beat his man (yes, he tries it in too often) and do something completely different. he should have come on for the last 30 minutes on saturday playing up front (just behind Holt) in place of Cureton. IMO Hoola was in the shop window last night and as Cam implied I don''t think he will be with us too much longer.

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Viva, you speak sense mate, I have been talking about playing Hoolahoop behind Grolt for a some time now, and think that it should be considered as a Plan B if not a plan A. After setting out a 4-4-2 against Walsall, it seemed that there was no other way the team could play.

I rate Chris Martin to be left winger, has scored two goals from there, one last night for the reserves and one against Brentford... surely it could be an option for Lambert as well.

Touching Cloth, I think that your perception of Whaley is far from the same as mine this season. There is definite potential there, but we are yet to see his qualities through an entire 90 mins. A run in the reserves, and coming on from the bench for WLY should give him some game time he needs.

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Interesting To See What Crook Said About Hoolahan Last Night -

“What can I saw about him (Wes) tonight, he was excellent. If Wes comes into tonight with a bad attitude, then he doesn''t perform like that. His attitude was spot on, he has done everything. I said to him beforehand, ''when a manager leaves you out, don''t give him an excuse to make it easy the next time'', and to be fair they didn''t do that tonight. They made it difficult for him.”

I Know It Was Only A Reserve Game, But That Certainly Goes Against What Other''s Have Been Saying About Him Having The Wrong Attitude, And Not Wanting To Be Here.

 

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Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go. 

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[quote user="B-ru"]

Viva, you speak sense mate, I have been talking about playing Hoolahoop behind Grolt for a some time now, and think that it should be considered as a Plan B if not a plan A. After setting out a 4-4-2 against Walsall, it seemed that there was no other way the team could play.

I rate Chris Martin to be left winger, has scored two goals from there, one last night for the reserves and one against Brentford... surely it could be an option for Lambert as well.

Touching Cloth, I think that your perception of Whaley is far from the same as mine this season. There is definite potential there, but we are yet to see his qualities through an entire 90 mins. A run in the reserves, and coming on from the bench for WLY should give him some game time he needs.

[/quote]

Agree with you totally BRU, you speak the truth sir!

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[quote user="Wes Hoolahans Middle Finger"]

Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go. 

[/quote]I think you''re absolutely spot on with regards to people not giving him support. Anybody who says he holds onto the ball too long needs to look at

Whaley''s goal against Wigan pre-season - he spotted that pass and

released the ball first time, because the player was available.I don''t think anybody''s saying he''s the perfect player, but people who think our squad will be stronger without him needs their heads checked IMO. Perhaps he shouldn''t be started in all games, but to not even have him on the bench is a travesty.I''m sure Lambert knows this, so I can only assume that financial constraints means we have to get our "prized assets" off the payroll so he can get his own players is.

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[quote user="Touching Cloth"]In my opinion he is a very weak player, who offers very little to the team. Good at going round in circles but nothing beyond that. No guile, no end product, no balls. Nothing. Sell him at the earliest opportunity i say.[/quote]loltroll.

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I know why he doesn''t try his best... its because know one seems to know how to spell HOOLAHAN there is no I in it,  its not even said with an I, its Hool-a-han how it is spealt..... (hahaha i like it when i get to complain about other''s spellings mistakes, i have probably made a few in here as well :P)

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[quote user="Wes Hoolahans Middle Finger"]

Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go. 

[/quote]

An excellent post and exactly the point I''ve been trying to make on this thread http://www.pinkun.com/cs_pinkun/cs/forums/1837633/ShowPost.aspx over the past couple of days.

[Y]

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"Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go."  (Wes Hoolahan''s Middle Finger)

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

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[quote user="Dronny Canary"]

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

[/quote]Agree with you - he should certainly be able to play on the wing. The problem is, like with Hucks, you need a decent midfield (three lungs helped I''m sure) to cover for him, as he does little defensively and isn''t your traditional pacy winger. And let''s be honest, our midfield is pretty dire at the moment, with the exception of Hughes.

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[quote user="Dronny Canary"]

"Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go."  (Wes Hoolahan''s Middle Finger)

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

[/quote]

Depends on the managerial approach I would say.  The Hooligan can start on the wing but whichever it is he will drift and if the Manager doesn''t want that in his formula and can''t cope with it the player is pretty much done for.  Grayson coped with it as I remember.

We had a more extreme example at Colchester.  Step forward George Elokobi, a full back who ended up spending much of his time in the opposition penalty area.

The then Manager (Williams) couldn''t cope with it because it buggered his "formula." of being where people should be on the blackboard.

Whereas at Wolves McCarthy says: "He''s a nightmare.  You think where the **** has he gone and he''s battling his oppo in their area.  but we''ve learned to cope with that.  Love him to pieces."

[:|]

 

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[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="Dronny Canary"]

"Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go."  (Wes Hoolahan''s Middle Finger)

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

[/quote]

Depends on the managerial approach I would say.  The Hooligan can start on the wing but whichever it is he will drift and if the Manager doesn''t want that in his formula and can''t cope with it the player is pretty much done for.  Grayson coped with it as I remember.

We had a more extreme example at Colchester.  Step forward George Elokobi, a full back who ended up spending much of his time in the opposition penalty area.

The then Manager (Williams) couldn''t cope with it because it buggered his "formula." of being where people should be on the blackboard.

Whereas at Wolves McCarthy says: "He''s a nightmare.  You think where the **** has he gone and he''s battling his oppo in their area.  but we''ve learned to cope with that.  Love him to pieces."

[:|]

 

[/quote]

Somewhere in amongst all this we need to remember it is a team game.  Players need to be able to play with other people.  The point is that Wes has plenty of experience of playing on the wing and knows what comes with that role.  The impression that I get (and judging by the other comments on these boards I''m not the only one) is that Wes is a very skillful player who likes to do what he likes and to go where he wants whether its in the interests of the team or not.  I have this horrible feeling that for Wes, what is most important is Wes looking good rather than the team.  I''m possibly being very unfair but that''s the way it seems to me.  When we played at Blackpool last season I spent some time in a pub talking to some Blackpool supporters and the subject of Wes came up.  They described Wes as a player who had bags of skill and was capable of turning a match.  They also felt that he often wasn''t satisfied with beating a man once but almost had to go back and do it several times and would then dribble down dead-ends and lose the ball.  Now that sounds mighty familiar.   

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]

Hopefully he will be gone so all the discussion will be redundant your end.

 

 

 

[/quote]

I''d love to see him stay but play a bit more as part of team but I suspect that this won''t happen!

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Oh well, hired by a Manager who thought he ripped you to pieces (that was then of course) but then didn''t know what to do with it, acquired by a Manager who went with the "freedom" bit and handed over to a bloke who just does formula.

Funny old game football.

Wrong player, wrong club, wrong Manager (s).

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For me there is nothing wrong with having that kind of a free spirit player in the team- but Wes (as good as he is) is not good enough to have that level of freedom. If you have Cantona, Maradona or Messi you build a team that will cover and accomodate, but Wes?? Not enough end product for that- you would need a team that would at least draw as 10 men and then let him be the luxury 11th. We don''t have that team of 10 and I don''t think he''s good enough to be considered a worthwhile luxury.

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[quote user="Dronny Canary"]

"Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go."  (Wes Hoolahan''s Middle Finger)

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

[/quote]

He is playing out of position IMO. I''d play Lappin on the left with Wes behind Holt. Look at where Hoolahan was playing last year when he was playing at his best, behind the striker ''in the hole'' as it''s known such as his game vs Ipswich.

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[quote user="ryan1992"][quote user="Dronny Canary"]

"Maybe its not the player himself that''s the problem but rather the lack of adequate support from those around him? If others aren''t making themselves available in the right positions then he can''t pass to them, so he tries to hold the ball up until somebody makes a run forward, this leaves him open to criticism for hogging or losing it unecessarily. He''s also not being played in his best position (in the hole behind the strikers) and therefore his influence on the game has been limited. Hoolahan''s not a wide player, doesn''t have the speed to be, therefore if he''s continualy played in that postion then we''ll never see what he can really do and he will be criticised for not performing. I don''t think anyone would expect Askou or Nelson to play on the right wing , so why do we expect Hoolahan to play out of position and then criticise him for not fulfilling our expectations of what a right wing should do? If he''s played in the right place then he can control the game going forward. We saw last season when he played in his favoured position against the scum what he can do, it was one of his best performances in a Norwich shirt and a game in which we controlled the midfield battle from start to finish. I fear if events continue in their current direction then we will never have the chance to see him equal or better it. This would be a travesty, as IMO he has the potential to be a truly special player for us; Lambert will be making a massive error of judgement if he lets him go."  (Wes Hoolahan''s Middle Finger)

Strange. Started off as a winger. Referred to by his first club as "wizard of the wing".  Picked for Republic of Ireland U21 to play on the wing.  His international manager said that "he beats defenders by skill as much as speed and he''s got a great engine for a little fellow. He can play left or right and is willing to learn."  From this I think we can safely say that Wes knows how to play on the wing and so playing him there is not really the same as playing Askou or Nelson there is it?  It also appears that he can play on the right or the left and not just down the middle.  Come on, you can hardly say that asking him to play on the wing is playing him "out of position"!

[/quote]

He is playing out of position IMO. I''d play Lappin on the left with Wes behind Holt. Look at where Hoolahan was playing last year when he was playing at his best, behind the striker ''in the hole'' as it''s known such as his game vs Ipswich.

[/quote]

It might be your opinion that there is a better place to play Wes, but there is no doubt that he started off as a winger and had plenty of success there both at club level and U21 level.  To now suggest that he is "out of position" when playing there and saying (as the original posted did) that it would be the same as asking Nelson or Askou to play there is really stretching credibility.  It may be that he can contribute more somewhere else but you simply cannot excuse mediocre performances on the wing by Wes by arguing that he can''t play there.

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