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Duffman

Doherty: My Norwich career is all but over

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[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dr. Ink"]

 

Excellent work NutmegNigel, shows exactly why we have fallen so low.

Two more to add

Ashton - Earnshaw - Cureton

Huckerby - Hoolahan

[/quote]

Oh there''s countless more Dr. But Ashton, Earnshaw and Hucks weren''t given shed loads of abuse on here.

For me Earnshaw - Cureton and Etuhu - Russell were the catalysts for what has followed.

 

[/quote]

You are fighting an uphill battle Nigel.

Once they have found a scapegoat they are seldom open to reason.

The problem has been at fullback for several seasons now and whoever plays at centre back is going to have to face the same difficulties of being pulled out of position to cover.

I am just wondering who the next scapegoat will be.

[/quote]

Well put Ricardo (and Nutty). I would also add that as well as the full-backs, the midfield has been a pretty major problem too (arguably more so), in general, over the last few years, not offering enough protection to the defence or being willing enough to take the ball off them, and not getting forward to help the strikers out. How many games have we come away having been overrun and not being competitive in the middle of the park? Far too many.

But still, we won''t expect the forum''s resident simpletons to understand. They''ll just be waiting to choose the next scapegoat who will undoubtedly be the root of all the world''s problems. And when they leave and things aren''t any better, they''ll just choose somebody else.

[/quote]Back in the mists of time, the first Norwich City team I watched had a centre back pairing of Bruce and Watson.  Later on, I recall Polston being half-decent, then Linighan.  Matt Jackson was ropey but delivered more often than not.  We were always spoiled for centre backs a little bit, I feel.The Doc was never in the league of any of the players above, but he was a committed and whole hearted player who was too often left exposed by the frailties or "couldn''t care less" attitude of others.  If you look at some of the centre-backs (or players we''ve used at centre back) we''ve had recently:

Shackell

Charlton

Stefanovic

Kennedy

Taylor

Omosuzi

I''d say Doc was certainly one of the better ones.

No he wasn''t skillful, yes he wrestled and leaned and got in where it hurts, but I don''t think I ever saw the Doc go missing in a City shirt, and nor did he ever stop trying even when those around him had.  I''m sorry he''s not going to play for us any more, but yes, a move to a new club is probably the best thing for him and for us if we need to get the wage bill down (though we only stop paying him if he leaves, I presume).  Given Michael Nelson''s start to the season, I have a feeling we''re going to miss Doc.

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It is sad to see everyone so pleased with this situation. I can''t believe anyone truely thinks that Michael Nelson is a better player than Doherty, just as i am sure no-one really thinks that WLY or Lappin are any better than Wes Hoolahan. This is about cost cutting- not getting rid of poor players and shows the dire financial situation we are in and an acceptance that we will probably be in the lower leagues for some time. This is not something to be happy about in my opinion, quite apart from the fact that we are pushing out a loyal (but unpopular) servant to the club. Best of luck for the future gary :-) 

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="nolegs"]So we celebrate the departure of a player who always tried his best ,maybe not good enough,but didn''t see the champagne being broken out for a lot of the workshy,money grabbing mercenaries that have been on our books over the last few seasons...reallity check anyone!
[/quote]

I''m sorry NoLegs, but I cannot have any respect for a player, who, imo, should have never been signed  for the club, is useless and wanted to leave until he realised no one else wanted him!

I shed not one tear over this bumbling clown.........sorry mate.

[/quote]

Mr Wizard, is there any player or manager dead or alive, you consider to be average, okay, not bad, did a decent job but nothing special?

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[quote user="motley7"]

It is sad to see everyone so pleased with this situation. I can''t believe anyone truely thinks that Michael Nelson is a better player than Doherty, just as i am sure no-one really thinks that WLY or Lappin are any better than Wes Hoolahan. This is about cost cutting- not getting rid of poor players and shows the dire financial situation we are in and an acceptance that we will probably be in the lower leagues for some time. This is not something to be happy about in my opinion, quite apart from the fact that we are pushing out a loyal (but unpopular) servant to the club. Best of luck for the future gary :-) 

[/quote]Excellent post. This is quite simply cost-cutting and is something to be very worried about.What I can''t understand is why the board sanctioned the signing of more than ten new players in the summer before getting higher earners off our books first. Mismanagement from all levels at the club.

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Agree with that motley. It is sad but preditable the reaction to this and i''m with you in the view that Nelson is a long long way behind Doc in terms of ability. Doc has been loyal and always puts in a shift. He''s not the greatest player but he''s a long way off being the worst. Good luck Doc.

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[quote user="Fuglestad"][quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="nolegs"]So we celebrate the departure of a player who always tried his best ,maybe not good enough,but didn''t see the champagne being broken out for a lot of the workshy,money grabbing mercenaries that have been on our books over the last few seasons...reallity check anyone!
[/quote]

I''m sorry NoLegs, but I cannot have any respect for a player, who, imo, should have never been signed  for the club, is useless and wanted to leave until he realised no one else wanted him!

I shed not one tear over this bumbling clown.........sorry mate.

[/quote]

Mr Wizard, is there any player or manager dead or alive, you consider to be average, okay, not bad, did a decent job but nothing special?

[/quote]

Oh behave!

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Anyone else thought about how similar Hoolahan is being treated to Doc at the mo, i.e. not even making the bench? Are we about to get a similar article on Hoolahan being told he can sling his hook? I really hope not as he could be a valuable asset if handled properly (either on the pitch or to sell)

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dr. Ink"]

 

Excellent work NutmegNigel, shows exactly why we have fallen so low.

Two more to add

Ashton - Earnshaw - Cureton

Huckerby - Hoolahan

[/quote]

Oh there''s countless more Dr. But Ashton, Earnshaw and Hucks weren''t given shed loads of abuse on here.

For me Earnshaw - Cureton and Etuhu - Russell were the catalysts for what has followed.

 

[/quote]

You are fighting an uphill battle Nigel.

Once they have found a scapegoat they are seldom open to reason.

The problem has been at fullback for several seasons now and whoever plays at centre back is going to have to face the same difficulties of being pulled out of position to cover.

I am just wondering who the next scapegoat will be.

[/quote]

Well put Ricardo (and Nutty). I would also add that as well as the full-backs, the midfield has been a pretty major problem too (arguably more so), in general, over the last few years, not offering enough protection to the defence or being willing enough to take the ball off them, and not getting forward to help the strikers out. How many games have we come away having been overrun and not being competitive in the middle of the park? Far too many.

But still, we won''t expect the forum''s resident simpletons to understand. They''ll just be waiting to choose the next scapegoat who will undoubtedly be the root of all the world''s problems. And when they leave and things aren''t any better, they''ll just choose somebody else.

[/quote]

Back in the mists of time, the first Norwich City team I watched had a centre back pairing of Bruce and Watson.  Later on, I recall Polston being half-decent, then Linighan.  Matt Jackson was ropey but delivered more often than not.  We were always spoiled for centre backs a little bit, I feel.

The Doc was never in the league of any of the players above, but he was a committed and whole hearted player who was too often left exposed by the frailties or "couldn''t care less" attitude of others. 

If you look at some of the centre-backs (or players we''ve used at centre back) we''ve had recently:

Shackell
Charlton
Stefanovic
Kennedy
Taylor
Omosuzi

I''d say Doc was certainly one of the better ones.

No he wasn''t skillful, yes he wrestled and leaned and got in where it hurts, but I don''t think I ever saw the Doc go missing in a City shirt, and nor did he ever stop trying even when those around him had.  I''m sorry he''s not going to play for us any more, but yes, a move to a new club is probably the best thing for him and for us if we need to get the wage bill down (though we only stop paying him if he leaves, I presume). 

Given Michael Nelson''s start to the season, I have a feeling we''re going to miss Doc.

[/quote]

This is all far too sensible for this forum Chops.

If they think Doc was the worst ever centre back then god only knows what they would have made of Charlie Billington, Ray Pointer or Mick (or was it Matt?) McNiell.

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[quote user="motley7"]

It is sad to see everyone so pleased with this situation. I can''t believe anyone truely thinks that Michael Nelson is a better player than Doherty, just as i am sure no-one really thinks that WLY or Lappin are any better than Wes Hoolahan. This is about cost cutting- not getting rid of poor players and shows the dire financial situation we are in and an acceptance that we will probably be in the lower leagues for some time. This is not something to be happy about in my opinion, quite apart from the fact that we are pushing out a loyal (but unpopular) servant to the club. Best of luck for the future gary :-) 

[/quote]

Here here!

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Can someone send Docs legit finest moments in a youtube video up to Portaloo ?Maybe Keaneo will sign him in a bid to save his binners.That will mean League 1 at Portaloo for sure next year :) :)

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[quote user="Shaker"]

Agree with that motley. It is sad but preditable the reaction to this and i''m with you in the view that Nelson is a long long way behind Doc in terms of ability. Doc has been loyal and always puts in a shift. He''s not the greatest player but he''s a long way off being the worst. Good luck Doc.

[/quote]

He''s also more than likely a long long way behind in salary. Nelson is certainly no world beater but i dont feel he is miles behind Doherty in terms of ability and if Doherty''s wages can be used to bring in a decent partner for Askou then that''s fine by me. I like Doherty''s attitude but we''ve struggled for too long to find a player who he plays well alongside him, defences have to work as a unit and i''ve not seen a solid one very often with him in the side, time for a change imo.

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The Doc''s been fortunate to survive at the club this long and has earned a decent crust. I''m curious to see who his next employer will be.....but I also wish him the best in whatever he does......

He wasn''t the best, but he certainly wasn''t the worst.... Cheerio Gary - and good luck.

Shame we didn''t buy Martin Taylor....in hindsight.

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Doc is a far more accomplished player than Nelson.  In the same way that Hoolahan is our most creative midfielder and Rusty our key combative player (Burnley wanted him for the Prem, after all).  This is either cost cutting on wages (very worrying) or Lambert is another Roeder (let''s kick out Hucks to prove I am the boss) which is even more worrying....

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[quote user="Lambo"]

Cheers for everything Doc, good luck at your next club.

 

Not the best but always gave 100%.

[/quote] I like the youtube vid idea of highlights.  Very funny.  As for the "cheers for everything", would that be for having 10 more goals scored against that the next worst defense in our Prem season, the huge number of goals conceded since then, the too frequent losses due to shockingly stupid plays after an otherwise acceptable, or even sometimes great effort, or for holding out on his contract signing while waiting for someone else to come calling?

We will miss you, Dorkerty.  The laughs at your expense made an otherwise miserable situation tolerable.

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[quote user="Duffman"]I just can''t believe it has taken so long for a manager to work this one out.

Well done Paul Lambert.
[/quote]

Pity its taken this long to realise it, shall we have a leaveing party, Mustard pot saturday, but he can''t come  

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="nolegs"]So we celebrate the departure of a player who always tried his best ,maybe not good enough,but didn''t see the champagne being broken out for a lot of the workshy,money grabbing mercenaries that have been on our books over the last few seasons...reallity check anyone![/quote]

I''m sorry NoLegs, but I cannot have any respect for a player, who, imo, should have never been signed  for the club, is useless and wanted to leave until he realised no one else wanted him!

I shed not one tear over this bumbling clown.........sorry mate.

[/quote]just like cureton then.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Dr. Ink"]

 

Excellent work NutmegNigel, shows exactly why we have fallen so low.

Two more to add

Ashton - Earnshaw - Cureton

Huckerby - Hoolahan

[/quote]

Oh there''s countless more Dr. But Ashton, Earnshaw and Hucks weren''t given shed loads of abuse on here.

For me Earnshaw - Cureton and Etuhu - Russell were the catalysts for what has followed.

 

[/quote]

You are fighting an uphill battle Nigel.

Once they have found a scapegoat they are seldom open to reason.

The problem has been at fullback for several seasons now and whoever plays at centre back is going to have to face the same difficulties of being pulled out of position to cover.

I am just wondering who the next scapegoat will be.

[/quote]totally agree ric.drury often camps in the 18yd box inviting a cross and semi is just *centre backs have their work cut out with them. luckily players like askou will happily cover using a little bit of speed and good manouvreability. and nelson will just beat opponents out the air with his body (despite jumping like an elephant).

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I''m not sure who are demeaning more here, yourself or MLK. And on the day Mary Travers died. Good Lord man show some respect. Treat some thinks seriously.

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[img]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/111/thedoccurve.jpg[/img]I''ve been critical to the Doc in the past, and I''m going to go lightly because he doesn''t deserve a lot of the stick he gets.Doc has been a good servant to the club, but he is and always will be a limited player and a symptom if not sometimes a cause of our recent turmoil. But as a professional he always tried hard and although I was disappointed with his refusal at signing a contract (an aparent show of disloyalty) he has proved that he was here for the long haul (a good thing or not).I''m not sad he''s on the way out though. For me it can only be a good thing, even though we have big gaps in our squad. I think with him gone, we will have finally have shut the book on a disastrous couple of years at the club.Good luck in finding somewhere where you are more wanted Gary!

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]Either way if you can''t get shot of him you will just have to carry on paying him.  You know it makes sense.[:D][/quote]

And that''s the whole point Cam. Lambert didn''t give Doc his contract true enough. But Doc didn''t give it to himself either. Roeder offered it and Doc signed it. If he doesn''t want to uproot his family right now he doesn''t have to. He can stay in the stiffs and we have to pay him. If he was a gambling man he may well look at the 5 managers we''ve had in his 5 seasons at the club and take a punt on a new manager being in situ by the time his contract runs out. And as he''s been rated by 4 of the last 5 managers the odds would be on his side that he''d get a new contract.

As always I''ll give an example to illustrate my point and that example is Simon Lappin. Not wanted under any circumstances by Roeder, Lappin chose to take his money and stay. The next two managers were happy to play him and offer him a new contract. And all the time Roeder froze him out we were paying him too.

 

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CARRY ON NORWICH!

Starring:

Kenneth Williams (Lambo)

Jimmy Shand (Peter Grant)

Bernard Bresslaw (Doc)

Sid James (McNally)

Barbara Windsor (Delia)

Peter Butterworth (Joe Ferrari)

Charles Hawtrey (Admiral Nelson)

 

 

 

 

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Gary may well think I will sit this one out as history suggests Lambert won''t be here for too long but the one think he won''t be thinking is Lambert has probably looked at the squad and thought ''Right, there must be some people that have played under all 4 previous managers and they all ended up on the dole''. Lambert took a week to work out what Worthy, Grant, Roeder and Gunn failed to spot in 5 years and for that reason Gary would be wrong to assume PL won''t be here in 12 months time.

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[quote user="Duffman"]Gary may well think I will sit this one out as history suggests Lambert won''t be here for too long but the one think he won''t be thinking is Lambert has probably looked at the squad and thought ''Right, there must be some people that have played under all 4 previous managers and they all ended up on the dole''. Lambert took a week to work out what Worthy, Grant, Roeder and Gunn failed to spot in 5 years and for that reason Gary would be wrong to assume PL won''t be here in 12 months time.[/quote]

Yeah right! Time will tell but right now you''re taking a huge leap of faith. All this Worthy being unable to work players out as well as the fans is so 2005 and so wrong. Where is Worthy, where is Etuhu and where are we?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Duffman"]Gary may well think I will sit this one out as history suggests Lambert won''t be here for too long but the one think he won''t be thinking is Lambert has probably looked at the squad and thought ''Right, there must be some people that have played under all 4 previous managers and they all ended up on the dole''. Lambert took a week to work out what Worthy, Grant, Roeder and Gunn failed to spot in 5 years and for that reason Gary would be wrong to assume PL won''t be here in 12 months time.[/quote]

Yeah right! Time will tell but right now you''re taking a huge leap of faith. All this Worthy being unable to work players out as well as the fans is so 2005 and so wrong. Where is Worthy, where is Etuhu and where are we?

 

[/quote]Andy Hughes, Jason Jarrett, Carl Robinson, Gary Doherty, Louis-Jean, Paul Gallacher, Jim Brennan, Jurgen Colin and Peter Thorne.Shall we play where are they now also ?Worthy lost the plot in 2005 and the above backs that up.P.S - Dickson Etuhu is the player he is now due to Roy Hodgson.   Worthy can take no credit for that and nor should you be using it as a way of defending Nigel Worthington.

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