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West Ham and Milwall

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="pete_norw"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="IncH_HigH"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="Big Bob"][quote user="IncH_HigH"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="CT "]Anyone fancy going to the Den this year?[:|]

[/quote]

I said at the start of the season when there was a discussion on here what my cousin (Milly supporter) told me and my friends, don''t come to our ground and be very careful if you go to the Milly match at home.  If I went to the Milly match away and my cousin saw me he would frog march me back to the car lol.

Millwall have always had problems and they won''t ever change, however most of the fans on the pitch last night were West Ham supporters.

I hope both clubs take hard action on those involved for their actions last night, a dsigrace to modern football and something that belongs in the past.

[/quote]
Exactly. But maybe add Birmingham and Leeds to that too.

Sorry WAY but that is just scare mongering, I worked for London underground at Surrey Quays for many years and worked 100''s of Milwall matchdays, if you support another London club then you can expect problems otherwise they are not interested.
 They have no axe to grind with any club outside London and would make us most welcome. I personally am travelling to the Millwall game next year and meeting friends who are Milwall fans before and after the game and have no fear of any problems even wearing our colours. If people go with a bad attitude and taunt the locals then as with every other ground you can expect a problem. But believe me when I say,Millwall fans have no interest in us.
[/quote][/quote]

Not scaremongering at all, it came from a Milly supporter of 35 years who just so happens to be my cousin.

It''s up to everyone else to make their choices to go down to Milly.  Personally it''s a big no no for us.

So are you saying some of our fans won''t go with an attitude of starting a bun fight because they know the Milly fans will rise to it? 

 

[/quote]

I would be suprised if any did WAY, but these things are highly organised these days and rarely effect your average fan. As I said earlier, I''ve seen 100''s of Millwall games and the vast majority were peaceful affairs with nothing more than the usual harmless banter between fans in the ground.
I''ll be there enjoying a game of football as I have done many times in the past.
[/quote]

Well lets hope for their sakes they keep schtum and keep their heads down.

 

[/quote]

I don''t tink blame can or should be directed at one set of fans here, as both are as guilty as each other,  but from what has been seen I think Both clubs should be expelled for three years in this compitition and the individual fans banned for life, the FA has to make a stand on this they shold also ban travelling Milly fans, (TIN HAT ON )

[/quote]

No I totally agree, both clubs have to be punished, but the other side of that is why should the real fans be punished by the actions of the idiotic group who call themselves fans? by the clubs being expelled from this competition.

The individuals should be banned for a minimum or 3 years from their own clubs for such actions, and those caught fighting outside nicked and punished by the law, if they are also fans of either side, slap a banning order on them all.

A question, while watching last night, there were fans who invaded the pitch and were just ushered back to their respective stands, why weren''t they arrested?  To only go and invade the pitch again a short while later?  Bloody madness.

[/quote]

 

other teams fans have been getting away with invading the pitch for years - see just about every playoff game or last game of the season. At the Carra its always been very strongly prevented by the stewards (until recently!).

 

 

[/quote]

WAY, the reason why they were not arrested is that there are too many of them and this would really deplete the front line of old bill. Some elements of hooligans, will try and use that to soften the front line. They will have video evidence both from TV and the ground CCTV, the football intel unit will work with the club and other units to identify them and arrest them. Usually for something this big, there will be arrests at a later stage and I know that this is in the air. Watch out for the early morning knocks you fat chavs....

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Let em scrap...... the police should have been ready for it and why was this on a monday night!! Now we can impose huge sanctions against the two most annoying football teams in england

Bunch of f**kin idiots the lot of em both fans bad as each other.

Why did I go with a mate to millwall Forest at millwall to be able toget in and out of the ground without seeing a millwall fan, its like they wanted it all to happen to then impose rediculous rules to spoil it for everyone. Probably cant afford to host the World Cup so the government wanted it to happen,

All old men in loveless marriages who dont want to grow up and want to be the next danny dyer or hero in front of their mates because sentances are so light the pride in the pub and heros welcome after means more to them than some time in a holiday camp I mean prison.

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Im going Millwall this year to show them c**ts you can have a good time without all this have a few beers with ya mates have a laugh not try to think ya a big boy,

Sorry bout spelling on previous posts and structure of sentances just annoyed at last night, two teams ruining it for everyone!!

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"Anyone fancy going to the Den this year?"

I will, im sure they wont do anything to me, or anyone really, if they dont cause any trouble, eg shouting, singing etc. Keep my head down outside the ground and i will come out with a pulse :)

COYY

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And i think its good what they did. Well at least i thought they just trapped the willwall fans in, then let the hammers fans run around, then theres no violence on the pitch. The west ham fans wont fight with each other!? surely...

Cheeky bast**d for west ham though, the young black fella, celebrated in front of the millwall fans. Not a good idea!!!

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[quote user="Brendan"]And i think its good what they did. Well at least i thought they just trapped the willwall fans in, then let the hammers fans run around, then theres no violence on the pitch. The west ham fans wont fight with each other!? surely... Cheeky bast**d for west ham though, the young black fella, celebrated in front of the millwall fans. Not a good idea!!![/quote]

When you grow up you are not going to be a neuro-surgeon are you? [:|]

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WHU v Millwall, the history so far.The

bitter and bloody rivalry between West Ham and Millwall supporters is

one of the oldest, most intense feuds in the history of British

football.

Both teams were created in the industrial heartland of east London in the late 19th century by rival factory workers.

Millwall FC was formed in 1885 by labourers at JT

Morton''s canned food factory on the Isle of Dogs. Ten years later, a

foreman at Thames Ironworks, London''s last major shipbuilding firm,

decided to form a football team to improve the morale of his workers.

The two sides frequently played each other in heated local derbies.

At

start of the 1906/07 season, a particularly ferocious encounter saw one

player hurled against a metal advertising board. Millwall finished the

game with only nine men, after the others were stretchered off

following heavy tackles.

The East Ham Echo

reported: "From the very first kick it was seen that there was likely

to be some trouble. All attempts at football were ignored." The

supporters were also criticised for fighting each other in the stands.

In

1926, when tough economic times were taking their toll on the docks,

the rivalry turned nasty. The General Strike of that year was observed

by workers in the East End, who were mainly West Ham supporters, but

the Millwall-supporting shipyard workers of the Isle of Dogs refused to

lend their support, provoking mass outrage.

The bitterness of this betrayal would endure for years.

In

the 1960s, the two sides were again divided, this time by the arrival

of London''s two most notorious gangster families, the Krays and the

Richardsons. The former were born and bred in the East End and

supported West Ham, the latter were from south of the river and

followed Millwall.

In 1972, a testimonial for

Millwall defender Harry Cripps was marred by intense fighting between

the two club''s "firms": groups of hooligans intent on violence.

Four years later, a Millwall supporter died at New Cross station after falling out of a train during a fight with West Ham fans.

Leaflets were later distributed at Millwall''s home matches bearing the words: "A West Ham fan must die to avenge him".

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Yes, all that but unfortunately the MET f*****d up and are blaming the BTP who are currently blaming the MET.

As to Can You Sit Down Please on the 1000 officers we think not.  Indeed we think it a complete and total f**k up on behalf of Messrs Plod which is no surprise this end. 

[:P]

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http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=116105

An interesting thread from a West Ham message board. I used to work with the guy who wrote the opening post. He is mod on the board, and his dad used to be a policeman. I haven''t read it all, but the low police numbers are mentioned 350 vs 850 the last time West Ham played Millwall and the game was on a Sunday lunchtime. 

 

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[quote user="Tim Allman"]

http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=116105

An interesting thread from a West Ham message board. I used to work with the guy who wrote the opening post. He is mod on the board, and his dad used to be a policeman. I haven''t read it all, but the low police numbers are mentioned 350 vs 850 the last time West Ham played Millwall and the game was on a Sunday lunchtime. 

[/quote]

I find it funny that the blame is put onto a low number of police, rather than the high number of morons.

If people acted like proper fans rather than thugs, there wouldn''t be a need for as many as 350 police.

It''s the world we live in though, I suppose.

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Hooliganism has never gone away, the game has changed around it but the latent potential has remained.

My view will I suspect be echoed by other reporters and columnist who, like me and others on this message board who attend games all around the country most weekends.

To my mind one reason why this sort of violence had erupted is that rarely these days is there a stage for it, take our own local derby which is consistently (or at least it was) played on a Sunday morning with a  well rehearsed police involvement to quell any potential problems.  Rest assured if we had played Ipswich last Monday in this cup competition there would have been far more trouble, all afternoon drinking, the cover of darkness and just being an evening match.  Not for one minute would I suggest our supporters are capable of mass violence on this scale but trouble absolutely. 

Many of us will have been to Portman Road and watched them run on the pitch, seen our own fans tear up their catering facilities and seen many a punch and missile thrown but this of course does not form part of the games new found middle class acceptability but it is an undeniable truth.

For many lads, blokes, hooligans, call them what you will the last year or two has been economically difficult, jobs have been lost and the general level of disenchantment has grown, look back to the early eighties and the same applied, nothing much to do all week but the chance of tear up at the weekend and so it is today.

Another point I’ve read this morning which raised an eyebrow but I can understand none the less,  is a certain type of bloke sees this type of violence as a means of resting the game away from the middle classes that taken it over in the last few years.  This sort of behaviour is a massive two fingered salute to the box going, corporate hospitality enjoying occasional fan.

None the less, life bans must follow, draconian prison sentences are a must but none the less these events are pretty  understandable and I suspect the first in a new wave of football violence.

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[quote user="ncfcstar"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Is this the same message board which was recently full of apologists for the Norwich supporters imprisoned after the Leicester incident saying what nice, kind and misunderstood chaps they all were????[/quote]

Completely agree Cambridge, I remember Arthur was very supportive of them.

Last nights events are absolutely disgusting.  I hope the repercussions are strong for both clubs, and West Ham should be kicked out of the Carling Cup in my opinion, whether this is the right course of action I am not sure, because I am sure the fans who caused the trouble wont really care.
[/quote]

Right lets get something straight here.

I was NEVER supportive of their actions, what i said was along these lines.

I never once condoned what they done and i was in agreement that those responsible should be punished. There were families who witnessed that fight and its not fair they should see such behaviour. On a personal level i like the guys as they have always been very polite and nice to me and Doris. What pisses me off is that as soon as you put the word FOOTBALL in to the court room it becomes overkill,lets not forget this happened 2 miles from the stadium. If this had happened down Riverside on a Friday night those lads would of been in and out of court on Monday morning but this case went on for 18 months before the Defendants got 7 months and 3 months. The ones who got 3 months for Public disorder...[yes that heinous crime!] had their sentence quashed on their release! Make of that what you will. In no way do i support violance but the proof was in the sentence getting quashed by the high court. So accuse me for whatever you like but it seems my protest for their sentence was right all along.

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As for blaming films like football factory I ask you this....

Did you watch Pretty Women and go on the game?

Did you watch Godfather and want to join the mafia?

Did you watch Spiderman and think you could jump off buildings?

Did you watch Layer cake and become a drug dealer?

Did you watch Snatch and become a unlicensed boxer?

Did you watch Clockwork Orange and go out and rape?

Did you watch Scum and think it might be a laugh to go to prison?

Did you watch Friday The 13th and become a serial killer?

No? So where is your argument???

 

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="Brendan"]And i think its good what they did. Well at least i thought they just trapped the willwall fans in, then let the hammers fans run around, then theres no violence on the pitch. The west ham fans wont fight with each other!? surely... Cheeky bast**d for west ham though, the young black fella, celebrated in front of the millwall fans. Not a good idea!!![/quote]

When you grow up you are not going to be a neuro-surgeon are you? [:|]

[/quote]

a case of ''Physician heal thyself''

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well said it makes me laugh when people refer to films as a point of starting the trouble, the fact is when you get together with a big  group you get caught up!

Yes there where people there who organised it, but a majority were season ticket holders! who got caught up! it was wide spread and pretty scary stuff, if there were more police it would have been avoided and the fans kept apart!

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="Brendan"]And i think its good what they did. Well at least i thought they just trapped the willwall fans in, then let the hammers fans run around, then theres no violence on the pitch. The west ham fans wont fight with each other!? surely... Cheeky bast**d for west ham though, the young black fella, celebrated in front of the millwall fans. Not a good idea!!![/quote]

When you grow up you are not going to be a neuro-surgeon are you? [:|]

[/quote]

Why be so condescending, he''s a young lad with opinions that may or may not be right.  But try using some tact and put him right instead. [:O]

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[quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle OBE, CBE, OAP."]

As for blaming films like football factory I ask you this....

Did you watch Pretty Women and go on the game?

Did you watch Godfather and want to join the mafia?

Did you watch Spiderman and think you could jump off buildings?

Did you watch Layer cake and become a drug dealer?

Did you watch Snatch and become a unlicensed boxer?

Did you watch Clockwork Orange and go out and rape?

Did you watch Scum and think it might be a laugh to go to prison?

Did you watch Friday The 13th and become a serial killer?

No? So where is your argument???

 

 

 

 

well said it makes me laugh when people refer to films as a point of starting the trouble, the fact is when you get together with a big  group you get caught up!

Yes there where people there who organised it, but a majority were season ticket holders! who got caught up! it was wide spread and pretty scary stuff, if there were more police it would have been avoided and the fans kept apart!

[/quote]

Exactly mate.

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[quote user="Sir Arthur"]

As for blaming films like football factory I ask you this....

Did you watch Pretty Women and go on the game?

Did you watch Godfather and want to join the mafia?

Did you watch Spiderman and think you could jump off buildings?

Did you watch Layer cake and become a drug dealer?

Did you watch Snatch and become a unlicensed boxer?

Did you watch Clockwork Orange and go out and rape?

Did you watch Scum and think it might be a laugh to go to prison?

Did you watch Friday The 13th and become a serial killer?

No? So where is your argument???

 

[/quote]Did you watch The Crying Game and..well....you know....

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It was me who said it was a 1000 officers and I know that there was close to that figure. You may have heard some rumours that there wasn''t for you''re trade, but trust me on this one. It''s always easy to blame the police and most do, try being in that situation, training or no training it can be scary. There may have been some mistakes, as there always is, but these will be looked at. I have spoken to mates on the ground and thus was very well planned by the hooligans, they all split up and were everywhere with pre planned meets in place to scrap. The cardif spurs game a few years ago, there was 800 cops on duty, but because they came down in coaches it is easy to control them and heard them into the ground, unlike at west ham, where they all were in casuals and come all over the place. Maybe you should be a bit more respectable cam in relation to the old bill and not just believe you''re ''sources''......

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[quote user="Canaries in Bed"]It was me who said it was a 1000 officers and I know that there was close to that figure. You may have heard some rumours that there wasn''t for you''re trade, but trust me on this one. It''s always easy to blame the police and most do, try being in that situation, training or no training it can be scary. There may have been some mistakes, as there always is, but these will be looked at. I have spoken to mates on the ground and thus was very well planned by the hooligans, they all split up and were everywhere with pre planned meets in place to scrap. The cardif spurs game a few years ago, there was 800 cops on duty, but because they came down in coaches it is easy to control them and heard them into the ground, unlike at west ham, where they all were in casuals and come all over the place. Maybe you should be a bit more respectable cam in relation to the old bill and not just believe you''re ''sources''......[/quote]

Indeed it''s scarey even as a trained officer.  It''s so easy to blame the police and forget they are actually human and have the same feelings as everyone else, including fear.

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[quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle"]

As for blaming films like football factory I ask you this....

Did you watch Pretty Women and go on the game?

Did you watch Godfather and want to join the mafia?

Did you watch Spiderman and think you could jump off buildings?

Did you watch Layer cake and become a drug dealer?

Did you watch Snatch and become a unlicensed boxer?

Did you watch Clockwork Orange and go out and rape?

Did you watch Scum and think it might be a laugh to go to prison?

Did you watch Friday The 13th and become a serial killer?

No? So where is your argument???

[/quote]Suddenly my behaviour over the last few years starts to make sense! If only I''d realised! [:$]

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[quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle OBE CBE OAP."]

As for blaming films like football factory I ask you this....

Did you watch Pretty Women and go on the game?

Did you watch Godfather and want to join the mafia?

Did you watch Spiderman and think you could jump off buildings?

Did you watch Layer cake and become a drug dealer?

Did you watch Snatch and become a unlicensed boxer?

Did you watch Clockwork Orange and go out and rape?

Did you watch Scum and think it might be a laugh to go to prison?

Did you watch Friday The 13th and become a serial killer?

No? So where is your argument???

 

[/quote]

lol my nephew who was about 5 at the time did actually think he was superman, hurled himself off the top of the stairs and broke both legs, he ran shouted ''superman'' and launched himself.

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To finish this off once and for all. This is why the meetings between the clubs will always be like last night.

A rivalry that dates back to the heyday of British shipbuilding

The bitter and bloody rivalry between West Ham and Millwall supporters

is one of the oldest, most intense feuds in the history of British

football.

Both teams were created in the industrial heartland of east London in the late 19th century by rival factory workers.

Millwall FC was formed in 1885 by labourers at JT Morton''s canned food

factory on the Isle of Dogs. Ten years later, a foreman at Thames

Ironworks, London''s last major shipbuilding firm, decided to form a

football team to improve the morale of his workers.

The two sides frequently played each other in heated local derbies.

At start of the 1906/07 season, a particularly ferocious encounter saw

one player hurled against a metal advertising board. Millwall finished

the game with only nine men, after the others were stretchered off

following heavy tackles.

The East Ham Echo reported: "From the very first kick it was seen that

there was likely to be some trouble. All attempts at football were

ignored." The supporters were also criticised for fighting each other

in the stands.

In 1926, when tough economic times were taking their toll on the docks,

the rivalry turned nasty. The General Strike of that year was observed

by workers in the East End, who were mainly West Ham supporters, but

the Millwall-supporting shipyard workers of the Isle of Dogs refused to

lend their support, provoking mass outrage.

The bitterness of this betrayal would endure for years.

In the 1960s, the two sides were again divided, this time by the

arrival of London''s two most notorious gangster families, the Krays and

the Richardsons. The former were born and bred in the East End and

supported West Ham, the latter were from south of the river and

followed Millwall.

In 1972, a testimonial for Millwall defender Harry Cripps was marred by

intense fighting between the two club''s "firms": groups of hooligans

intent on violence.

Four years later, a Millwall supporter died at New Cross station after falling out of a train during a fight with West Ham fans.

Leaflets were later distributed at Millwall''s home matches bearing the words: "A West Ham fan must die to avenge him".Andy.

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