Rays funds for the Academy with the Pink un Pickers.

[Excited Canary 19]

CTID - He has already picked some PUP''s for the whole season, they are all the people who were attending this thread last year...so unless you joined in last year you will have to ask for a reserve spot like me, if that doesn''t go to plan then Eddie (NN) has promised for me to have a go early next season so I assume you will be likewise.

[city-till-i-die 7]

[quote user="Norwich"]CTID - He has already picked some PUP''s for the whole season, they are all the people who were attending this thread last year...so unless you joined in last year you will have to ask for a reserve spot like me, if that doesn''t go to plan then Eddie (NN) has promised for me to have a go early next season so I assume you will be likewise.[/quote]I did take part last season [Y]

[GMF 736]

I''m gutted [:(]

I don''t even make the 5 out of 6 club [:''(] [:$]

At least the PUP''s live to fight another week thanks to Dixmar Racing. [:D]

The batton is duly passed on! [;)]

[Big Slob 0]

Seeing you''re from Chelmsford do you attend their games often? Are they in good form? Unlucky xx

[Excited Canary 19]

Unlucky GMF, thought we had it!

[Excited Canary 19]

[quote user="city-till-i-die"][quote user="Norwich"]CTID - He has already picked some PUP''s for the whole season, they are all the people who were attending this thread last year...so unless you joined in last year you will have to ask for a reserve spot like me, if that doesn''t go to plan then Eddie (NN) has promised for me to have a go early next season so I assume you will be likewise.[/quote]I did take part last season [Y][/quote]

Then I suspect he will have a date down for you, just send him a P.M.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Since I''ve got in from work I have been reading this thread and I have come to realise that we may have to make changes to the way we do the final selections on the free bet. I don''t think it''s fair that some of the new PUPs will probably have to wait over a year to have a turn at making the final selections. We have around 65 PUPs selecting each week and only 40 weeks in a season. So obviously however hard I try and even with the fact that some don''t want to do it, I can''t get you all a turn.

Now at the presentation last week Pete suggested to me that maybe two pickers could share the final selections. He said how about maybe two PUPs picking three each. I think I was a bit hasty in dismissing the idea. I initially didn''t like it for two reasons. Firstly because I''m a believer of "if something works well don''t meddle with it". And secondly, and I know you will all understand this, I am loath to change anything from the way Ray did it.

Having had time to reflect I have changed my mind. I am now of the opinion that maybe change has to be made in order for the Free Bet to move forward. And I believe Ray would have been in favour of that change because he was one of the fairest people I have ever met.

Now I know it''s not that straight forward and can see a few problems with the mechanics of two PUPs picking three teams each, but I also have an idea about how it could work. But before I consider it further I am throwing it over to all of you. The Free Bet belongs to all of us so I need to know how you feel about the principle of this idea?

 

 

[Gentleman Jim 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So obviously however hard I try and even with the fact that some don''t want to do it, I can''t get you all a turn.

Now at the presentation last week Pete suggested to me that maybe two pickers could share the final selections. He said how about maybe two PUPs picking three each. I think I was a bit hasty in dismissing the idea. I initially didn''t like it for two reasons. Firstly because I''m a believer of "if something works well don''t meddle with it". And secondly, and I know you will all understand this, I am loath to change anything from the way Ray did it.

[/quote]

I think you were right to dismiss the idea Eddie for the very reasons you stated and having two pickers would bring it''s own logistic problems, I also agree newcomers should have an earlier opportunity to have a go at picking the weekly bet. May I therefore offer two alternatives that would fit the criteria :-

(1) Any of our existing pickers that have had two or more goes should stand down until the newcomers have had at least one attempt.

                                                                          OR

(2) Use the the 4/5 pickers of the month (POM) winners to pick the following 4/5 weeks, this would have two virtues it seems in that the POMs would be "in form" and perhaps improve our success rate, also everybody would have an equal chance whether  newcomer of only four weeks or a longer term member. I know there are sometimes more than 4/5 POMs but some sort of  tie breaker could be agreed perhaps.

But as always whatever you decide Nutty I will go along with quite happily because I know you will do it for the good .[:D]

 

 

[Excited Canary 19]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Since I''ve got in from work I have been reading this thread and I have come to realise that we may have to make changes to the way we do the final selections on the free bet. I don''t think it''s fair that some of the new PUPs will probably have to wait over a year to have a turn at making the final selections. We have around 65 PUPs selecting each week and only 40 weeks in a season. So obviously however hard I try and even with the fact that some don''t want to do it, I can''t get you all a turn.

Now at the presentation last week Pete suggested to me that maybe two pickers could share the final selections. He said how about maybe two PUPs picking three each. I think I was a bit hasty in dismissing the idea. I initially didn''t like it for two reasons. Firstly because I''m a believer of "if something works well don''t meddle with it". And secondly, and I know you will all understand this, I am loath to change anything from the way Ray did it.

Having had time to reflect I have changed my mind. I am now of the opinion that maybe change has to be made in order for the Free Bet to move forward. And I believe Ray would have been in favour of that change because he was one of the fairest people I have ever met.

Now I know it''s not that straight forward and can see a few problems with the mechanics of two PUPs picking three teams each, but I also have an idea about how it could work. But before I consider it further I am throwing it over to all of you. The Free Bet belongs to all of us so I need to know how you feel about the principle of this idea?

 

 

[/quote]

I think it is a great idea, and no that is not me just being selfish because I want a go...I just think it will be good, the 2 posters can discuss picks through P.M''s and stuff & get to know each other. Not just that but I know you will make it good anyway as it is in very safe hands...so Im all for it!

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

Jims pickers of the month idea could be a goer Nutty as it gives new pickers the incentive to stick around.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Yes these are all good thoughts and ideas. Keep them coming. We don''t have to rush into anything - much better to make the right decision.

 

[Mister Chops 7]

I think we should stick to 1 person picking, but if you''re worried about getting new people involved as well as old then why not redraw the rota at Xmas?In future, the pre-season Pickers meeting could feature the draw for the next season''s pickers - like the FA cup draw but without Hansen and Lawrenson... would be good theatre, too.

[Buncey 1]

I''m with Jim here, I don''t think having two people picking the line will work. I don''t mind stepping down either, I''ve done it many times already (and won) so I''m more than happy to sit it out. I do like you''re idea Jim but what if you get the same 4/5 pickers every month? Then how do we go about it? The system we''ve got at the moment works the best at the moment.

[Gentleman Jim 0]

[quote user="Fellas"]I''m with Jim here, I don''t think having two people picking the line will work. I don''t mind stepping down either, I''ve done it many times already (and won) so I''m more than happy to sit it out.

I do like you''re idea Jim but what if you get the same 4/5 pickers every month? Then how do we go about it?

The system we''ve got at the moment works the best at the moment.
[/quote]

I think the competition would be too fierce for that to happen Fellas, we all have our winning and losing runs at times, but as I say we could have some sort of filtering mechanism, I''m sure with all the intellect we have in this Forum that someone could think of a way. [;)]

I too think the present system is best,  but of course it doesn''t solve Nutty''s desire to give the newcomers a quicker chance [^o)]

[Leedscanary 337]

I also think that the present system is the best. However I do see Nutty''s dilemma.

Obviously, any changes would have to be agreed to by our sponsor, Billy Dixon - he has agreed to sponsor the bet in its current format - any major changes to pickers would have to be run past him.

The only idea I have at the moment is to split the bet between 2 pickers - not the number of teams, but the stake. 2 pickers, picking 6 teams each for a reduced stake of £5 per line - this doubles the amount of pickers instantly from 40 to 80.

Otherwise, I like Jim''s picker of the month idea, and I certainly don''t mind standing aside if anyone wants a go.

[scrimmage 0]

[quote user="leedscanary"]

I also think that the present system is the best. However I do see Nutty''s dilemma.

Obviously, any changes would have to be agreed to by our sponsor, Billy Dixon - he has agreed to sponsor the bet in its current format - any major changes to pickers would have to be run past him.

The only idea I have at the moment is to split the bet between 2 pickers - not the number of teams, but the stake. 2 pickers, picking 6 teams each for a reduced stake of £5 per line - this doubles the amount of pickers instantly from 40 to 80.

Otherwise, I like Jim''s picker of the month idea, and I certainly don''t mind standing aside if anyone wants a go.

[/quote]Leeds, I had the exact same idea. How about halving the stake and two pickers?

[I am a Banana 0]

NN have you agreed for next year''s free bet?

 because if you havn''t then i wouldn''t start talking about next seasons bets imo!

I also think that it should stay the same but give a different picker a pick each week like it is now, but if someone has already had a turn in previous seasons, they should wait until there is a free space and give new pickers a turn!

 

But as long as we raise more money for the academy im happy!!

 

[:D]

[Leedscanary 337]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

I also think that it should stay the same but give a different picker a pick each week like it is now, but if someone has already had a turn in previous seasons, they should wait until there is a free space and give new pickers a turn!

 

But as long as we raise more money for the academy im happy!!

 

[:D]

[/quote]

Its not all about "new" pickers though - alot of us have gone on a rollercoaster ride on this thread over the last 3 years, these are the people that deserve the status of picker at the moment. If Nutty does decide to change the format for selecting the picker, I for one, hope he has a qualifying period for a new picker.

For instance, jonnyfirstpost surely can''t expect to pick the six until he/she has selected maybe 10 naps??

Really, Nutty''s final league table should highlight the top 40 pickers, and these are the people that stick with the thread week in week out - it also gives the rest of the pickers something to aim for, gives them an opportunity to really seek out some good Naps. This, more than any other one thing, will enable us to beat the bookie more often.

[NCFC_Shaun 0]

[quote user="leedscanary"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

I also think that it should stay the same but give a different picker a pick each week like it is now, but if someone has already had a turn in previous seasons, they should wait until there is a free space and give new pickers a turn!

 

But as long as we raise more money for the academy im happy!!

 

[:D]

[/quote]

Its not all about "new" pickers though - alot of us have gone on a rollercoaster ride on this thread over the last 3 years, these are the people that deserve the status of picker at the moment. If Nutty does decide to change the format for selecting the picker, I for one, hope he has a qualifying period for a new picker.

For instance, jonnyfirstpost surely can''t expect to pick the six until he/she has selected maybe 10 naps??

Really, Nutty''s final league table should highlight the top 40 pickers, and these are the people that stick with the thread week in week out - it also gives the rest of the pickers something to aim for, gives them an opportunity to really seek out some good Naps. This, more than any other one thing, will enable us to beat the bookie more often.

[/quote]

 

I realise it''s getting tough to keep everybody happy, and this is with no disrespect to the people who have put forward the idea - but I feel splitting the final picks between 2 people would take a lot away from the free bet. I''m not sure what - maybe the individual proudness of playing a major part in helping add to the grand total of money won for the academy.
I don''t think this particular change should be implemented. There are far more problems than that with this, though. For instance, what happens if both pickers want to have the same game in their individual three choices? Also, if one of the pickers gets 3/3 correct, and one fails with - for example - one. They will feel far more guilt, regardless of the fact that nobody is ever blamed on here.

I also agree with Leeds. Now that there is so many pickers wishing to take part in the final selections. I think those that are currently missing out have to show a degree of commitment. This season, the 40 chosen pickers have been chosen through loyalty - those that have had at least a year of picking. I think that is fine for this season, and I don''t see how anybody can complain with that reasoning.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

Just for the record,I''ll relinquish my week if needs be Nutty.

[The Great Drinkell 50]

As far as I''m concerned, the fact that NN is continuing this bet in memory of his close friend Ardee, means the final format is down to him.  however I have reservations about the options being offerred so far

• If you choose the picker on current form then the likes of Chelsea,Rangers,Celtic and the likes will be put forward time after time. My understanding is that we - as PUPs - make our choices to help the academy not for personal fame and fortune.(this is not intended as a slurr or dig at any individual (s) it''s just an expression that emphsises my point)
• By having 2 pickers each week takes away some of the honour that the weekly pickers express (I have yet to pick so can only put over my impression of the previous pickers)
• Splitting the stake in my opinion is not the "Ray Way" although I accept that he would be a proud man to see the community he has created.

These are my personal thoughts but would accept whatever changes or not that NN implements. At the end of the day it is not compulsory to participate and if I don''t enjoy it at any time then quiet simply I leave the thread alone each week.

  The question in my opinion that needs to be answered is why has the thread become so popular?  If you can answer this then maybe that would answer the questions.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Some really good points there from all who have responded. I''d like to add a couple more of my own : -

Before the season started, and again on this thread, quite a few of our most experienced pickers offered to step down in order to give more PUPs an opportunity to make the final selections. I was and still am against that. While I really appreciate the sentiment behind those offers I don''t believe in doing so, or not using pickers who have had more than one turn in the past, would be for the good of the thread. I believe that discarding these people for a season would seriously reduce are chances of raising funds for FONCY. I also know in my heart that Ray would not have gone for that option.

The logistical problems with two different pickers doing three each are certainly there. And Leeds and Shaun have made very good points about commitment which I agree with. Last season 43 PUPs selected in over half the available weeks and it was the majority of these who took the 40 places on this seasons rota. Moving on to this season and over 60 PUPs are regularly picking. There are some pickers who showed the commitment from when they joined last season right through to the four weeks of this season, possibly amounting to 20 weeks continuous picking, and I can offer them nothing until next season (And only then if we get the free bet).

The Great Drinkell asks the question why has the thread become so popular? Certainly a big reason is because Ray was so popular, posters loved and respected him and so respect eachother on this thread. Comradeship would be another reason because of the way we all get along together and support eachother. The opportunity to do something to help the club we love would be another. The competition of our own PUPs league would be another. And of course the fact that it works so well in it''s present format cannot be ignored.

This comment from "Norwich" reminded me about something Ray and I did.

Norwich wrote:

I think it is a great idea, and no that is not me just being selfish because I want a go...I just think it will be good, the 2 posters can discuss picks through P.M''s and stuff & get to know each other. Not just that but I know you will make it good anyway as it is in very safe hands...so Im all for it!

 

We used to do our own line with Billy. We discussed it through emails and of course on the phone. But we got our heads together and came up with six every week. I guess I am of the opinion that if you enjoy something and share it with someone that enjoyment is enhanced.

I think it could work with the right people. That''s why I asked what you PUPs thought about it in principle and not so much about the mechanics of it. The natural thing we all do is look for problems, not to put a downer on it but to stop us making a mistake. But "Norwich" immediately saw the upside and how it could work.

Before the season started both Jim and Yankee offered to step down to make more space. If I''d have agreed we wouldn''t have had them doing the final selections at all this season. But what about if I asked would they share a week to make room for Doris and Mandie to share a week? I''m not saying it would suit everyone and we wouldn''t need everyone to do it. Would maybe The Great Drinkell share his week with Nana? And so on...

Anyway.. these are just thoughts and we have plenty of time. I see no reason to change the rota over the next few weeks while we consider our options. If in the end nothing changes at least it will be because that was what we agreed together.

 

 

[Yellow Peril 4]

I joined this thread last season as a bit of fun & a chance to raise some funds for the academy.

The fact I have been chosen to pick this season is a great honour, & I''m really looking forward to it.

 

However, I didn''t join the thread on the understanding that I would one day become a picker, & if I hadn''t become a picker then I would still have joined in.

I also don''t think it unreasonable that I had to "show my commitment" for a season before I became a picker.

 

I feel the present set up of 1 picker a week works well & leaves less confusion, & as NN has already decided on this seasons pickers then he shouldn''t feel under pressure to alter these.

Maybe next season is the time to implement any changes.

 

If it is a matter of trying to let everyone have a go at picking, then I think it only fair that it will be regulars that get first shout.

So, how about next season, the pickers are taken from people that have given selections for at least 75% of the season.

The first 20 will be the top 20 who have done the best over the season (the idea is to raise money, so let''s try to concentrate on that first)

The next 20 could be drawn from a hat leaving everyone else with an equal chance.

 

The following season, same procedure, but anyone who was drawn from the hat in the previous season will be left out of the hat that year to give others a go.

 

I know this may mean that some will have to wait a while but all good things come to he / she who waits.

After all, this thread has become a safe haven where the comradeship is a joy so let''s not spoil it by putting pressure on NN to push through changes. Let''s all wait patiently & just enjoy the ride.

 

Finally, just to say well done to NN for thinking of others as usual. An unfortunate position to be in where it is difficult to keep everyone happy, but a wonderful position to be in all the same as it proves how popular the thread has become.

I would imagine that Ray would be very proud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cosmic Twin 189]

In a way, this is a great dilema, Nutty Nigel, because it shows just how popular and successful the ''Free Bet'' has become!

Just to echo what Yellow Fever wrote. I joined this thread towards the end of the season before last as a bit of fun and also as a way of doing something to help the club. I was always pleased if my nap got picked (and slightly nervous!) It never crossed my mind that I would be a picker. So it was a real honour that I have been chosen to pick at some point this season. If I hadn''t been chosen to do so, I would still be choosing and posting my nap every week.

This thread is sometimes a sanctuary on this message board! The PUPs are always friendly, supportive and polite to one another! We are working together, but with the added incentive of the PUPs League!

It doesn''t sound as if there is an obvious way to include more pickers and give ourselves the best opportunity each week to raise money for the academy! (Which is the dilema.) There have been some good suggestions and I think that Yellow Fever''s tries to combine both these elements.

You are doing a fantastic job, Nutty, and I''m sure that whatever is decided, will ensure that this thread continues to go from strength to strength! [:)]

 

[Gentleman Jim 0]

Well said Yellow, I agree with your sentiments [:D]

 

[scrimmage 0]

I think it should stay as it is, it works well and there can''t be too many people who feel left out. I''m not a main picker but I feel good just contributing to the final selections. Maybe for next season''s selection for the final pickers the best overall pickers from this season should be picked.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

[quote user="Norwich"]Bugger! I have just realised my Helskinki vs RoPS Home Win is not until September 13th! Nooooo, that means I have lost my 100% record! Please Nutty will you let me off! [;)][/quote]

I just saw that too Norwich! You are still on 100% but your "goal difference" for want of a better description is still 3/3. Obviously those who are on 100% with 4/4 are top of our PUPs league.

This is a really good site for the various leagues all ove Europe. Ray and I used it loads! http://www.soccerstats.com/index.asp I don''t think Finland is included though.

 

[Trent Canary 0]

I would leave detailed thoughts regarding the structure of the bet but think most of it has been covered. However I thought id add I would be more than happy to share a week with a fellow PUP. The downsides already stated are that it could lead to arguements, what happens if both pickers want the same fixture in their final three etc. However on the positive side im sure the decision-making would take place in the usual spirited way, and Im sure the two posters doing it would get to know each better, and probably have a good laugh in the process.I think if it were to work it would be best for the two posters to work together to finalize six matches, rather than two posters making three each. As I said id be more than happy to do this, im sure you could put me with any of the PUPs on here and Id have a laugh.

[ncfcstar 289]

Personally I think the free bet should stay as it is.  I would love to be able to pick NN, but after not understanding how it actually worked a couple of years ago, and then only taking part in the first few weeks last year I don''t think I would deserve to pick this season.  I''m pretty sure I''ve made a pick every time so far this season, and I hope I will be able to continue that through to the end, maybe then getting a chance to pick next season.  I don''t think that you should feel under pressure to let people who''ve just come to the board a chance to pick, they should have to wait their turn imo.

[Diesel Doris 128]

I''d prefer to see the free bet stay as it is. I only joined in towards the end of last season and there is no way I would have expected to go on the "Fab 40" list. I enjoy putting my nap in each week to try and help to" Rays" some lovely lolly for our Academy and will continue to do so. If I do ever get to be a "picker" I''ll be really chuffed but it certainly won''t be this season and probably not next either. For me thats not a problem. I''l wait my turn.The old adage probably applies here "if it aint broke don''t fix it"[:D]