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thebigfeller

Sorry folks - I'm disappointed

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It''s certainly a darn sight better than Gunn - but when I look at Lambert''s record, all I see is a gradually improving manager: hardly a proven one. Awful at Livingston, albeit in very difficult circumstances which weren''t his fault. OK at Wycombe - League 2 play-offs is merely OK for them, though the Carling Cup run was certainly impressive. And OK at Colchester too: in their first season back down, how can 12th place be anything more than OK?Great that we''ve finally dispensed with the Mr Nice Guy nonsense and finally gone after our top target, regardless of what his club thought - but what bemuses me is that he was our top target in the first place. Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. And the feeling his appointment was sealed by one game is awfully uncomfortable too: didn''t that happen in Gunn''s case as well?My hope is that he can galvanise us and get us into the top six come May - but this could very much go either way. I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.

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[quote]I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big

question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.[/quote]Can you vocalise the more that you were hoping for ?  Who did you want here ?

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Peter Grant, like Gunn, was approached by the club, he didn''t apply for the job.  He had a decent record as a coach but absolutely no managerial experience and nothing to suggest that he wanted to be one until we came along and made him an offer he couldn''t refuse.  To link Lambert and Grant as managers because they both played for Celtic seems illogical and irrelevant.  I''m surprised at you.

Who did you have in mind btw?

 

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[quote user="thebigfeller"]Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. [/quote]

Obviously I must have missed the moment when Peter Grant won the Champions League [^o)]

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big

question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.[/quote]Can you vocalise the more that you were hoping for ?  Who did you want here ?[/quote]Someone who''d already done it I guess - but there''s an element of gut instinct in my thoughts. So, however inconsistently this sits with "someone who''d already done it", I''d have preferred any of Boothroyd, Robins or, probably, Peter Taylor - and when we were linked with Adkins, was unsure about him too! Because my gut instinct in his case is that he''s unlikely to be as successful at other clubs.

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. [/quote]

Obviously I must have missed the moment when Peter Grant won the Champions League [^o)]

[/quote]I don''t see what a player winning the CL has to do with their managerial abilities. If it did, wouldn''t he have taken Wycombe or Colchester up, and not been relegated with Livi?

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Appointing anybody other than Steve Coppell (which was unlikely anyway) was always going to provoke a level of disappointment. The fact is, there aren''t that many desireable managers who were attainable. I''m reasonably happy with Lambert.

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

Peter Grant, like Gunn, was approached by the club, he didn''t apply for the job.  He had a decent record as a coach but absolutely no managerial experience and nothing to suggest that he wanted to be one until we came along and made him an offer he couldn''t refuse.  To link Lambert and Grant as managers because they both played for Celtic seems illogical and irrelevant.  I''m surprised at you.

Who did you have in mind btw?

 

[/quote]The link I''ve made with PG and PL is more that they both talk a very good game, and would be perceived as ''winners'' by many. McNally seems to have based a lot of this on knowing Lambert well when they were at Celtic - but how does that constitute an objective appraisal of all the candidates? Again, what in Lambert''s managerial record thus far consititutes anything outstanding, in a season when we must get promoted?

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A few names to cheer you up bigfeller - Mike Walker, Dave Stringer, Martin O Neill, John Bond.  All had more in common with Grant or Lambert (little or no experience, lower league only managers) than Steve Coppell or Peter Taylor when they started managing us.

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[quote] but how does that constitute an objective appraisal of all the candidates?[/quote]It doesn''t - but since when did going through 40 cvs and having lots of interviews lasting a week win us anything ?  McNally had a man in mind as manager, probably when he started his own job.  He had an excuse to remove Gunn and did so.  It''s certainly different to the Doncaster approach, but when did that achieve anything ?

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I think Lambert''s record at Colchester is more impressive than stats would suggest. When he took over from Geraint Williams they were in big trouble and he piloted them out of that and moved them up the table with the same players he inherited. This season, with little investment they already look better than last year again.

I agree that he wouldn''t have been my first choice but he does seem like a manager who''s getting better with every job, so he obviously learns and improves. I''m happy to give him a good chance and a lot of backing.

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To be honest I''m a little disappointed too, but for personal reasons.  I was hoping for an older manager.  I''m now only 3 years younger than the Norwich boss !

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As I''ve posted elsewhere, I think that there are clear parallels with John Bond. They are/were virtually the same age , have had playing careers characterised by trying to play the "right" way, ie in a Norwich City style and are/were  good tacticians and football thinkers with a hunger to do well. Bond was hardly proven when he came here, but he led us to great success.

I think that this whole "we need somebody who''s done it" argument is flawed. How can Lambert prove himself unless someone gives him the chance? I''m genuinely excited about this and becoming more so by the minute. In fact my PA may have to chuck a bucket of cold water over me soon!

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.Fans often say that choosing a new manager is not rocket science.

They''re right, but not in the way they mean. If it WAS a science it

would be easy. It would be possible to know if someone was a good or a

bad choice.In reality all directors can do is take an educated

guess. Even with a manager with a fantastic track record there is no

guarantee they will do well at a particular club. Paul Jewell should

have succeeded at Derby (back in the Championship). He was a disaster.As for our choice I had the following criteria:1. Someone with a track record as a manager. Not someone who had only been a coach.2.

Someone with some record of success, even if there was a failure or two

as well, providing the failures were explicable and understandable.3. Tactical nous.4. Youth (comparitive youth, at least) and ambition.Lambert fulfils those criteria. Others (such as Boothroyd and Robins) would have done too.We shall see.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="thebigfeller"]Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. [/quote]

Obviously I must have missed the moment when Peter Grant won the Champions League [^o)]

[/quote]

I don''t see what a player winning the CL has to do with their managerial abilities. If it did, wouldn''t he have taken Wycombe or Colchester up, and not been relegated with Livi?
[/quote]

Sorry but you were the one comparing his playing career with that of Peter Grant (or at least that''s how it read to me). Maybe I missed the point you were trying to make?

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[quote user="Shack Attack"]

Sorry but you were the one comparing his playing career with that of Peter Grant (or at least that''s how it read to me). Maybe I missed the point you were trying to make?

[/quote]McNally spoke yesterday about the right man having proven he can handle being at a big club. How many great players go on to become great managers? Very few - which is odd how many great or highly accomplished players played for big clubs, isn''t it? Not that I''m against Lambert because he was a top player or anything like that: I''m not even against him. But I''m troubled by the idea that anything in any player''s career is particularly relevant to their managerial ability: they''re completely different jobs.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"]It''s certainly a darn sight better than Gunn - but when I look at Lambert''s record, all I see is a gradually improving manager: hardly a proven one. Awful at Livingston, albeit in very difficult circumstances which weren''t his fault. OK at Wycombe - League 2 play-offs is merely OK for them, though the Carling Cup run was certainly impressive. And OK at Colchester too: in their first season back down, how can 12th place be anything more than OK?

Great that we''ve finally dispensed with the Mr Nice Guy nonsense and finally gone after our top target, regardless of what his club thought - but what bemuses me is that he was our top target in the first place. Sorry, but his experience as a player makes little or no difference to his prospects as a manager: otherwise, Peter Grant would''ve been a big success. And the feeling his appointment was sealed by one game is awfully uncomfortable too: didn''t that happen in Gunn''s case as well?

My hope is that he can galvanise us and get us into the top six come May - but this could very much go either way. I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.
[/quote]

He strikes me as an ambitious guy who''s got something to prove and sees Norwich as a stepping stone to a Premiership role. Do the do for the Canaries; get promoted and be a contender in the Championship, have a couple of strong seasons, a decent cup run or two and who knows?

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[quote user="thebigfeller"]The link I''ve made with PG and PL is more that they both talk a very good game, and would be perceived as ''winners'' by many. McNally seems to have based a lot of this on knowing Lambert well when they were at Celtic - but how does that constitute an objective appraisal of all the candidates? Again, what in Lambert''s managerial record thus far consititutes anything outstanding, in a season when we must get promoted?[/quote]Sorry, but that''s rubbish. Lambert looked uncomfortable & slightly embarassed, more like a man who wants to be out on the pitch doing stuff rather than talking about it.Grant could talk the proverbial hind legs off a donkey. Although I tried to persuade myself otherwise, there was always a nagging doubt that a man who could start off saying one thing then keep talking long enough to say the opposite was not the ideal material for a football manager.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"] But I''m troubled by the idea that anything in any player''s career is particularly relevant to their managerial ability: they''re completely different jobs.
[/quote]

I agree with you to an extent but there''s something impressive about a man who leaves Scotland at the age of 27 to go on and win the Champions League and who becomes one of a very few numbers of non-Germans to be given special dispensation to study for his UEFA badges in Germany. That sort of stuff transcends his ability as a footballer in my opinion and speaks more about the type of man he is.

He could turn out to be a complete flop, in all honesty neither of us knows how things are likely to turn out, but I just think he''s got a certain something about him. It''s my first game of the season on Saturday so I hope I''m proved correct [:D]

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It''s the winning mentality. If you are used to success then you don''t countenance failure.

I know very little about Lambert other than the usual google and from my knowledgeable fellow posters on here.

He seems a serious winner at all levels he played at and a fast learning winner at management.

If he continues that improvement rate in his stay as Norwich manager I think we will all be well pleased.

As always time will tell,for now he must at least be given a fair chance.

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Fair enough everyone. There''d have been no guarantees, whoever we''d appointed (I never considered Coppell, because he''s done with management completely, and may have lost his hunger after so long in the game), and I certainly wish Lambert the best of luck. I''m sure I''ll come round in time anyway.Thinking about it, these were my gut reactions to the appointments of all Norwich managers since 1995:Martin O''Neill: absolutely delightedMike Walker: deliriously happyBruce Rioch: very pleasedBryan Hamilton: are you kidding me?Nigel Worthington: for heavens sake Norwich! (but I was wrong here - completely wrong, in fact)Peter Grant: oh, for fuck''s sakeGlenn Roeder: crushing sense of despair (any Wrathers on here will know what I''m referring to!)Bryan Gunn: this club is an absolute jokePaul Lambert: meh!Which already puts him above Gunn, Roeder, Grant, Hamilton and Worthington - oh, and Megson too, which I left out because it seemed so incidental to what was going on with Chase. Can''t be bad overall when put in that context!

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Some people will never be satisfied - time to stop the moaning and getting on with supporting the club instead of living in the past

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]A few names to cheer you up bigfeller - Mike Walker, Dave Stringer, Martin O Neill, John Bond.  All had more in common with Grant or Lambert (little or no experience, lower league only managers) than Steve Coppell or Peter Taylor when they started managing us.
[/quote]

Walker came from Colchester and O''Neill from Wycombe . . . so does that make Lambert a combination of Walker and O''Neill?  (JOKE [:D]

PS blah, if you''re feeling old, Lambert is young enough to be my kid!  I was hoping for Dave Stringer myself . . . [:)]

 

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I did a press conf with Lambert after Colchester beat millwall last season and i was very impressed by him. I said on here at the end of last season he would be my first choice if it wasn''t to be Gunn. I am surprised and not surprised that there is a luke warm responce for him on here... but... maybe that is a good thing. Lambert is a determined clever manager who will get norwich playing well. I am sure Cam will back me up here but he was loved by the U''s faithul and with good reason. he did a good job at Colchester and will do a good job here i have zero doubts. Best managerial appointment to be made this season across the whole league. Neck on the line but that is how confident i am with Lambert... This is, if he gets decent backing.

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Frankly, up and coming managers like - for example - Darren Ferguson are never going to come here with the club in the state it is and proven managers like Steve Coppell are looking for those elusive Premiership jobs. I think Lambert is right up there with the best we could get. Gone are the times where this club was among the elite and I think any manager has to be given a chance to prove himself.

One thing I will say, our reaction to Lambert smacks very similarly to the reaction Burnley fans had to Owen Coyle. Open minded, but sceptical. I think Lambert has proven that he knows the lower leagues of this country very well, and I like a manager who has worked his way up, if you like. And at the end of the day, if he gets us playing simple, efficient football again, I''ll be more than happy.

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I am very happy with this appointment. Martin O,Neill rates him highly and thinks he will go all the way to the top in management.

He isnt gonna turn us into League champions overnight but i am confident once he brings a few of his players in and give him a little time he will turn us into a good attacking footballing side.

The problem is nearly everyone was expecting a big name we have all heard of but we have to remember we are 3rd division team and some managers who have been around for a long time refuse to drop down to that level.

Paul Lambert is an upcoming young manager who is very ambitious and hungry for success. Managers all have to start somewhere and im confident he will get us fighting at the top end of the table by the end of the season. There is still 44 games left in the league so a long way to go yet.

Anyway welcome to Norwich City Mr Lambert. Im backing you all the way to turn this club around and get us winning matches again.

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[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]I''m not anti his appointment as such: it''s more that there''s just a big question mark in my head, and I was hoping for more really.[/quote]

Can you vocalise the more that you were hoping for ?  Who did you want here ?
[/quote]

Someone who''d already done it I guess - but there''s an element of gut instinct in my thoughts. So, however inconsistently this sits with "someone who''d already done it", I''d have preferred any of Boothroyd, Robins or, probably, Peter Taylor - and when we were linked with Adkins, was unsure about him too! Because my gut instinct in his case is that he''s unlikely to be as successful at other clubs.
[/quote]

and Boothroyd, Robins and Taylor have achieve what exactly???  [:^)]

With the exception of Taylor @ Hull City (two promotions - runners up in Div 2 and Div 1) the answer is nothing.  Ask Leicester fans what they think of Peter Taylor... had more money to spend than any other manager there and got them relegated (or alternatively ask Palace fans what they think of him).

Boothroyd = one promotion, followed by a relegation and slipping in to mid-table obscurity with Watford.

Robins has achieved nothing as yet, but similar to Lambert has a good win ratio (all be it at a lower level than Lambert has been working with at Colchester for the last year).

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Shaun, you write so well and echo my own opinion usually, but on this one we have to differ. Lambert (and I have to admit, I know virtually nothing about him) has had experience in this league and the one below. The fact he did so well at Wycombe (on less money than us) is the sealing fact for me. I hope with our more than obvious advantages over them such as supporter base, facilities and our academy etc, he can move things on.

I like the fact he''s not an old boy (though his coaching staff maybe). I like the fact he wasn''t "asked" to do the job by Delia. Your list of reactions to the appointments of former managers are pretty insightful and perhaps we are all somehow trying to capture those feel good feelings as in Martin O''Neill''s appointment. Up to that point he''d only managed Wycombe himself. Maybe, just maybe eh? What about your reactions to all of those leaving? Probably worth a thread on its own!

I would have put Robins as my first choice (just for his work at Rotherham). But I am not disappointed, in fact with Lambert I feel a very strange optimism coming on. Women''s intuition or just a good feeling that as far as it can be from a typical Delia appointment. It''s perhaps now the start of our season and it will be very interesting to see who he wants to retain from the squad and if he can achieve not only the much needed promotion but promotion in style.

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[quote user="TheGoogler"]

Frankly, up and coming managers like - for example - Darren Ferguson are never going to come here with the club in the state it is and proven managers like Steve Coppell are looking for those elusive Premiership jobs. I think Lambert is right up there with the best we could get. Gone are the times where this club was among the elite and I think any manager has to be given a chance to prove himself.

One thing I will say, our reaction to Lambert smacks very similarly to the reaction Burnley fans had to Owen Coyle. Open minded, but sceptical. I think Lambert has proven that he knows the lower leagues of this country very well, and I like a manager who has worked his way up, if you like. And at the end of the day, if he gets us playing simple, efficient football again, I''ll be more than happy.

[/quote]

I agree that if we were looking for anybody more proven than Lambert with our current standing then we would of been living a pipe dream.

The chances of us getting Ferguson would of been remote to say the least and we had absolutely no chance of getting Coppell.

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I''ll echo that Malcolm. I don''t know much about him aside of what''s been in the papers this afternoon, but am prepared to give him a chance.

Hunger for greater things. Yes please, I am sure we can all echo that. I hope indeed he has hunger and he''s not satisfied with just getting out of this division. I don''t know what his record on getting players in is like, I am sure plenty of posters will have done their research, but his record at Wycombe looks good.

Strangely I feel very optimistic and I haven''t felt like that about NCFC for a very long time.

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