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Beauseant

Let's hope Lambert is as ruthless as McNally

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First of all, my respect and commiserations to those who travelled to Brentford last night. I know how bad I felt listening to the debacle on the radio, so I really feel for you guys.

A good result last night would have made us all that more positive as the Lambert era dawns, but we didn''t get one, or even a performance. Having said that, other than us being down another three points, little has really changed. The worrying thing is that on the evidence that we''ve seen, it may take several weeks for any real and lasting improvement to show through. To those who have argued that Gunn should have been given more time I would suggest that last night, with his team and coaching staff, proved that, had McNally not acted, we would have almost certainly have been too far off the pace after 10 games to even have a shot at the playoffs. Yet again the story was one of underperformance, lack of backbone under pressure and total inertia in the technical area.

My worry is that Lambert now has to work with what he''s got, because if that''s the case we really are in deep trouble. Although Alnwick seems to have solved the keeping problem and Askou has improved the defence, we clearly have major problems.I''m not Doc''s biggest critic, and thought he had a decent season last year, but every game is now riddled with incidents where he fails to deal adequately with a situation, using resulting in him scything a player down in a dangerous position. However, the real worry is central midfield where we have yet to show that we can control games. As anyone who has ever played the game at a decent level will tell you, if you can''t control this area you will lose most of your games. To me, OTJ and Gill are both naturally holding midfielders, so playing both of them causes a problem. However, I suspect that the thinking is that this is necessary to accomodate Hoolahan''s wanderings. The result though is that unless Hoolahan dominates the opposition defence (yet to happen this season, despite the adulation for him on here), we end up sitting too deep and the supply to the strikers dries up. It sounds to me as if Cody and Holt were starved in the second half, with Holt in particular coming deep to try to get the ball. Once that happens your whole shape goes out of the window.

In my view Hughes needs to start as he is proactive and creative. I''m also going to go out on a limb here and say that Wes in a  free role is  a luxury we can''t afford until such time as we can dominate possession more than at present. When players work their socks off to get the ball there is nothing more demoralising than seeing someone go on a virtuoso run and lose it cheaply, and he does that way too often. Players like Wes are great when you''re on top, but with our current personnel and system that isn''t going to happen very often.

The bottom line is that we have players who don''t appear good enough . If Lambert agrees with that then the club must back him to get rid and bring in replacements (even if it means the dreaded loan system in the short term, given our proximity to the end of the transfer window). We now have a ruthless CEO and I suspect we have a ruthless manager, but having gone this far the board must go the whole hog and find the resources to allow Lambert to perform surgery on the squad, otherwise the effects of Team Gunn''s (collective) ineptitude will continue to haunt us.

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I think you are right about the midfield. Not 100% convinced that Hughes is the saviour (though obviously prepared to give him the chance to prove me wrong)

I watched the Wigan game and we started with Hughes/OTJ. Both seemed to be playing as the ''holding'' midfielder in front of the back 4 with Wes given free rein.

Neither Hughes nor OTJ (nor Gill/Adeyemi when they came on as subs) looked like they knew what they were meant to be doing - which was one was sitting, which one pushing forward.

We started the Colchester game in the same fashion and it sounds like this has continued into the following games (first half at Yeovil wasn''t exactly awe-inspiring).

Hopefully Lambert will identify that problem and organise the team better, perhaps having a more ''normal'' 4-man midfield which includes two wingers (rather than Whaley + Wes playing wherever he wants leaving the left wing exposed)

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Gotta agree Beaus! The midfield is the problem and has been for a while. The fact that we don''t control the midfield puts the defence under pressure. The fans see the defence struggling so they get all the stick from the stands. Your point about Hughes is spot on. I have now seen the last 3 games and the only time we dominated was the last 40 minutes at Yeovil. We were 0-0 at half-time and it had been even. We brought on Hughes for Gill not long into the second half and scored 4 goals to win comfortably. It was a change crying out to be made at Exeter but wasn''t and again last night when it was left far too late.

The midfield have to be brave and support the forwards rather than retreating and looking for support from the defence.

 

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Hughes has to play. I also think we have to play WLY. At the moment the creative spark is hoolahan, and considering we''re asking him to try and do two things at once it aint working. McVeigh, despite his age, size and level of fitness is still by far the most talented player at this club. Other teams will always have to play him tight, and this will give us much more space in the midfield. Ok so he''s not the quickest defender (he''s still handy though) that''s why you have a holding midfielder. I believe that a large part of our problems have been not winning that space in the middle by not playing two wide players (last year, croft and nobody) and when having that space not exploiting it with players who can (no etuhu etc.). Hopefully bringing Hughes and McVeigh in will help solve that issue.

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[quote user="Metatron"]I think you are right about the midfield. Not 100% convinced that Hughes is the saviour (though obviously prepared to give him the chance to prove me wrong) I watched the Wigan game and we started with Hughes/OTJ. Both seemed to be playing as the ''holding'' midfielder in front of the back 4 with Wes given free rein. Neither Hughes nor OTJ (nor Gill/Adeyemi when they came on as subs) looked like they knew what they were meant to be doing - which was one was sitting, which one pushing forward. We started the Colchester game in the same fashion and it sounds like this has continued into the following games (first half at Yeovil wasn''t exactly awe-inspiring). Hopefully Lambert will identify that problem and organise the team better, perhaps having a more ''normal'' 4-man midfield which includes two wingers (rather than Whaley + Wes playing wherever he wants leaving the left wing exposed)[/quote]

 

Good point about Whaley. I like the idea of two wingers, but he hasn''t done too much to excite me and seems to drift out of games (particularly away from home) for long periods.

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[quote user="Fellas"]Hughes has to play. I also think we have to play WLY. At the moment the creative spark is hoolahan, and considering we''re asking him to try and do two things at once it aint working. McVeigh, despite his age, size and level of fitness is still by far the most talented player at this club. Other teams will always have to play him tight, and this will give us much more space in the midfield. Ok so he''s not the quickest defender (he''s still handy though) that''s why you have a holding midfielder. I believe that a large part of our problems have been not winning that space in the middle by not playing two wide players (last year, croft and nobody) and when having that space not exploiting it with players who can (no etuhu etc.). Hopefully bringing Hughes and McVeigh in will help solve that issue.[/quote]

 

I''d almost forgotten WLY, but you''re right. We have to be able to unpick defences and any creativity available needs to be utilised. Would you see him as the replacement for Whaley or in a more central role?

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Fellas"]Hughes has to play. I also think we have to play WLY. At the moment the creative spark is hoolahan, and considering we''re asking him to try and do two things at once it aint working. McVeigh, despite his age, size and level of fitness is still by far the most talented player at this club. Other teams will always have to play him tight, and this will give us much more space in the midfield. Ok so he''s not the quickest defender (he''s still handy though) that''s why you have a holding midfielder. I believe that a large part of our problems have been not winning that space in the middle by not playing two wide players (last year, croft and nobody) and when having that space not exploiting it with players who can (no etuhu etc.). Hopefully bringing Hughes and McVeigh in will help solve that issue.[/quote]

 

I''d almost forgotten WLY, but you''re right. We have to be able to unpick defences and any creativity available needs to be utilised. Would you see him as the replacement for Whaley or in a more central role?

[/quote] ???

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[quote user="methcanary"][quote user="Beauseant"]

I''d almost forgotten WLY, but you''re right. We have to be able to unpick defences and any creativity available needs to be utilised. Would you see him as the replacement for Whaley or in a more central role?

[/quote] ???[/quote]

WLY = Paul McVeigh (as in "We Love You Paul McVeigh")

 

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Excellent post Beauseant, but something McNally mentioned in the aftermath of getting Lambert suggests that there won''t be much extra to work with.  He mentioned something along the lines of improving the team day by day on the training ground.  Kind of suggests to me that we''re going with pretty much what we''ve got.  Quite how you give players extra pace I''m not sure.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"]Excellent post Beauseant, but something McNally mentioned in the aftermath of getting Lambert suggests that there won''t be much extra to work with.  He mentioned something along the lines of improving the team day by day on the training ground.  Kind of suggests to me that we''re going with pretty much what we''ve got.  Quite how you give players extra pace I''m not sure.
[/quote]i hope P.Lambert gets SOME money.....if not we might get the same scenario..."judge me when its my team" rubbish

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Good post Beau.

Hooly is a real problem. When he is allowed a free role (ala Blackpool) he is dangerous player. Other then in the friendlies he has been mainly patrolling the left wing. He is not a left winger, he has limited pace.

As you say, whether Lambert can accommodate him at the moment remains to be seen.

Thank goodness Lambert has witnessed the Col U and Brentford games. It doesn''t take a brain surgeon to see where immediate improvements can be made.

I understand his team tactics for the Col U game included highlighting the slowness of Doc and Nelson and the defensive inadequacies of Semi. Need we say more!!

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[quote user="city-till-i-die"]i hope P.Lambert gets SOME money.....if not we might get the same scenario..."judge me when its my team" rubbish[/quote]

We don''t have to though.. we can judge him after one game if we want and probably will.

 

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[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Good post Beau. Hooly is a real problem. When he is allowed a free role (ala Blackpool) he is dangerous player. Other then in the friendlies he has been mainly patrolling the left wing. He is not a left winger, he has limited pace. As you say, whether Lambert can accommodate him at the moment remains to be seen. Thank goodness Lambert has witnessed the Col U and Brentford games. It doesn''t take a brain surgeon to see where immediate improvements can be made. I understand his team tactics for the Col U game included highlighting the slowness of Doc and Nelson and the defensive inadequacies of Semi. Need we say more!![/quote]

It''s a very good point and one which the last two managers haven''t worked out. Where to play Hoolahan? Perhaps we should capitalise on our large number of central midfielders and lack of wide men that are really doing it and try the Christmas tree:

 

                                     Holt

                         Wes             WLY/Cody/Whaley

                Adeyemi     Hughes     OTJ

      Lappin     Askou           Doc      Spillane

                               Alnwick

I think this could bring the best out of Wes who could roam, and you''d think that the midfield three could dominate possession. The major obvious weakness is at left full-back: I went for Lappin as Drury would lack the pace and stamina to provide width, but neither is an ideal candidate for this role.

Just an idea and a fairly radical one at that but could it play to our strengths and make us a bit less predictable?

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[quote user="Dion DublinLegend"]

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]Good post Beau. Hooly is a real problem. When he is allowed a free role (ala Blackpool) he is dangerous player. Other then in the friendlies he has been mainly patrolling the left wing. He is not a left winger, he has limited pace. As you say, whether Lambert can accommodate him at the moment remains to be seen. Thank goodness Lambert has witnessed the Col U and Brentford games. It doesn''t take a brain surgeon to see where immediate improvements can be made. I understand his team tactics for the Col U game included highlighting the slowness of Doc and Nelson and the defensive inadequacies of Semi. Need we say more!![/quote]

It''s a very good point and one which the last two managers haven''t worked out. Where to play Hoolahan? Perhaps we should capitalise on our large number of central midfielders and lack of wide men that are really doing it and try the Christmas tree:

 

                                     Holt

                         Wes             WLY/Cody/Whaley

                Adeyemi     Hughes     OTJ

      Lappin     Askou           Doc      Spillane

                               Alnwick

I think this could bring the best out of Wes who could roam, and you''d think that the midfield three could dominate possession. The major obvious weakness is at left full-back: I went for Lappin as Drury would lack the pace and stamina to provide width, but neither is an ideal candidate for this role.

Just an idea and a fairly radical one at that but could it play to our strengths and make us a bit less predictable?

[/quote]Whiggins must be fit soon.

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Wes is fine on the left, it''s where he was during the yeovil game and his time at Blackpool.

Hughes needs to come into the midfield Wiggins at LB when fit also.

I don''t think breaking up the Cody/Holt partnership is going to benifit us as they''re looking to be developing a good understanding together.

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[quote user="Lambo"]Wes is fine on the left, it''s where he was during the yeovil game and his time at Blackpool. Hughes needs to come into the midfield Wiggins at LB when fit also. I don''t think breaking up the Cody/Holt partnership is going to benifit us as they''re looking to be developing a good understanding together.[/quote]

 

I agree, although Cody needs a goal to lift his confidence in front of goal. The fact is that the strikers are being made to look worse than they are by the inept midfield. Having said that I''d still be interested to see what Maric  can do if on the pitch for more than 5 minutes!

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I''m not going to comment too much as Saturday will be my first game of the season but from what I''ve heard the left side is a real worry. Having a player like Hoolahan as an orthodox winger in a 4-4-2 might be OK if you have a left back with pace behind him. When he drifts inside you need someone to make the most of the space that is being left there. Is Wiggins quick? Drury certainly isn''t.

The other thing that strikes me is that we appear to be playing two holding midfielders as well. So we have a left winger who drifts into the centre behind the front two, a right winger who hugs the touchline but can''t beat his man and two central midfielders who are sitting in front of the defence. That seems to leave a huge gap in the left-centre of the pitch for the opposition to exploit, especially if they are blessed with pace on that side.

The whole set up of the team doesn''t really make any sense. In one of the pre-season games (Wigan I think) Martin played and dropped left so that Hoolihan could drift inside. That makes sense (although we could still do with a left back with pace to really make that work) if you''re trying to make the best of his undoubted ability. Stick him on the left wing without taking precautions over his wandering nature and you unbalance the whole team. Look back to the Championship winning team and there were always players willing to cover Hucks when he cut inside or just didn''t track back. Svensson and McKenzie were awesome as ''defensive attackers'' (look at the work rate of Carlos Tevez or Dirk Kuyt for what I''m talking about) and coupled with Francis they gave us real unpredictability. There wasn''t a huge amount of pace in the side, with the obvious exception of Hucks, but if you have more than one way of creating chances then it''s not so important. Over the last few years our attackes have become increasingly predictable and that''s something that Paul Lambert needs to change fairly quickly.

Saturday should be interesting but Lambert has a lot of work to do. If he''s given some backing (and my big hope is that he''s been told there''s ''something'' to spend) I think he''ll turn out to be a very good manager.

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Lambo"]Wes is fine on the left, it''s where he was during the yeovil game and his time at Blackpool. Hughes needs to come into the midfield Wiggins at LB when fit also. I don''t think breaking up the Cody/Holt partnership is going to benifit us as they''re looking to be developing a good understanding together.[/quote]

 

I agree, although Cody needs a goal to lift his confidence in front of goal. The fact is that the strikers are being made to look worse than they are by the inept midfield. Having said that I''d still be interested to see what Maric  can do if on the pitch for more than 5 minutes!

[/quote]

 

I always prefer teams that play two strikers as well, so perhaps an adventurous 4-3-1-2 with a narrow midfield three and Hoolahan free to roam? The great disadvantage to this formation is a lack of width, but from what other posters are saying we don''t seem to have much width in the team even when playing 4-4-2. Hughes, OTJ and Adeyemi would all offer something different in a midfield three as a creator, enforcer and box-to-box player respectively.

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[quote user="Dion DublinLegend"][quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Lambo"]Wes is fine on the left, it''s where he was during the yeovil game and his time at Blackpool. Hughes needs to come into the midfield Wiggins at LB when fit also. I don''t think breaking up the Cody/Holt partnership is going to benifit us as they''re looking to be developing a good understanding together.[/quote]

 

I agree, although Cody needs a goal to lift his confidence in front of goal. The fact is that the strikers are being made to look worse than they are by the inept midfield. Having said that I''d still be interested to see what Maric  can do if on the pitch for more than 5 minutes!

[/quote]

 

I always prefer teams that play two strikers as well, so perhaps an adventurous 4-3-1-2 with a narrow midfield three and Hoolahan free to roam? The great disadvantage to this formation is a lack of width, but from what other posters are saying we don''t seem to have much width in the team even when playing 4-4-2. Hughes, OTJ and Adeyemi would all offer something different in a midfield three as a creator, enforcer and box-to-box player respectively.

[/quote]

I quite like the diamond formation in that it gives some cover to the back four, allows for someone to have a free role and, if you have athletic fullbacks, can give you width AND solidity in the middle. I''d love to see this:

                                                                Alnwick

                  Spillane                   Askou                Stefanovic    Whiggins     

                                                                OTJ

                                   Hughes                                 Adeyemi

                                                            Wes

                                                   Holt                 Maric/Cody       

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A really good post and I agree with what you say....too many people rave about Hoolahan but for me he is one of our problems,can,t defend,can,t tackle but can see a opening the only problem there is how many times does that happen?mostly he farts around trying to get the ball onto his only good foot and by that time the tackle has come in and the ball is lost...meanwhile he makes the team unbalanced.Saturdays game I would play OTJones with Hughes + Lappin wide left and Maric in for Cody who appears more and more like a non league player each game...thats about the best we can do given the standard of the player that Gunn has got in,we can only hope that Lambert is a very very good coach and motivator to get this lot playing

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

It''s far more important to make the right decisions than ruthless decisions.

Roeder was pretty ruthless.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Sorry, don''t quite see what you''re getting at there. What are your thoughts on formation and the perceived weaknesses in the squad?

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[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

It''s far more important to make the right decisions than ruthless decisions.

Roeder was pretty ruthless.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Sorry, don''t quite see what you''re getting at there. What are your thoughts on formation and the perceived weaknesses in the squad?

[/quote]I presume that he is referrig to the title of the post - being ruthless is easy - Roeder even sacked the kitman! Grant spent months criticising the players; the board have sacked managers left right and centre - all might be seen as ruthless - but has it worked?Being tough and taking action is always popular - as it seems like it is decisive - but it only works if the tough decisions are the right ones. Sometimes the really tough decision is to see things through!

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

It''s far more important to make the right decisions than ruthless decisions.

Roeder was pretty ruthless.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Sorry, don''t quite see what you''re getting at there. What are your thoughts on formation and the perceived weaknesses in the squad?

[/quote]

I presume that he is referrig to the title of the post - being ruthless is easy - Roeder even sacked the kitman! Grant spent months criticising the players; the board have sacked managers left right and centre - all might be seen as ruthless - but has it worked?

Being tough and taking action is always popular - as it seems like it is decisive - but it only works if the tough decisions are the right ones. Sometimes the really tough decision is to see things through!

[/quote]

 

Thanks Badger, I must admit that we''d got so tied up in discussions of tactics etc that I''d forgot the title of the original post. In that context it''s a good point by Bly, and I suppose we will only find out whether the ruthless decisions were right in the fullness of time. Having said that, I think that there''s been rather too much inertia in the last few years!

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However, please bear in mind that being ruthless is not the same as being inept, weak & sentimental resulting in a completely panic-stricken decision. That''s just stupidity. And I am afraid, of late, the preferred NCFC business model.

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[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

It''s far more important to make the right decisions than ruthless decisions.

Roeder was pretty ruthless.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Sorry, don''t quite see what you''re getting at there. What are your thoughts on formation and the perceived weaknesses in the squad?

[/quote]

I wouldn''t attempt an answer to that question because, as you know, I am only there in spirit.

OTBC

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Beau - to go back to your point about Whaley...I agree.

I''m of the opinion that he''s this season''s Lee Croft - without quite so much pace. I''m hoping he proves me wrong but I''m yet to see a killer cross.

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[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

It''s far more important to make the right decisions than ruthless decisions.

Roeder was pretty ruthless.

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Sorry, don''t quite see what you''re getting at there. What are your thoughts on formation and the perceived weaknesses in the squad?

[/quote]I presume that he is referrig to the title of the post - being ruthless is easy - Roeder even sacked the kitman! Grant spent months criticising the players; the board have sacked managers left right and centre - all might be seen as ruthless - but has it worked?Being tough and taking action is always popular - as it seems like it is decisive - but it only works if the tough decisions are the right ones. Sometimes the really tough decision is to see things through![/quote]

 

Thanks Badger, I must admit that we''d got so tied up in discussions of tactics etc that I''d forgot the title of the original post. In that context it''s a good point by Bly, and I suppose we will only find out whether the ruthless decisions were right in the fullness of time. Having said that, I think that there''s been rather too much inertia in the last few years!

[/quote]Sorry Beau - I can''t agree with the too much inertia statement. I''ve lost count of the number of managers, assistants, first team coaches. youth team (academy, or now it seems, football development managers) we have had. Twelve new players since June? We have also had a major change in the board as well. I don''t think inertia is the word! Recent actions leave only two people unchanged!

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[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Dion DublinLegend"][quote user="Beauseant"]

[quote user="Lambo"]Wes is fine on the left, it''s where he was during the yeovil game and his time at Blackpool. Hughes needs to come into the midfield Wiggins at LB when fit also. I don''t think breaking up the Cody/Holt partnership is going to benifit us as they''re looking to be developing a good understanding together.[/quote]

 

I agree, although Cody needs a goal to lift his confidence in front of goal. The fact is that the strikers are being made to look worse than they are by the inept midfield. Having said that I''d still be interested to see what Maric  can do if on the pitch for more than 5 minutes!

[/quote]

 

I always prefer teams that play two strikers as well, so perhaps an adventurous 4-3-1-2 with a narrow midfield three and Hoolahan free to roam? The great disadvantage to this formation is a lack of width, but from what other posters are saying we don''t seem to have much width in the team even when playing 4-4-2. Hughes, OTJ and Adeyemi would all offer something different in a midfield three as a creator, enforcer and box-to-box player respectively.

[/quote]

I quite like the diamond formation in that it gives some cover to the back four, allows for someone to have a free role and, if you have athletic fullbacks, can give you width AND solidity in the middle. I''d love to see this:

                                                                Alnwick

                  Spillane                   Askou                Stefanovic    Whiggins     

                                                                OTJ

                                   Hughes                                 Adeyemi

                                                            Wes

                                                   Holt                 Maric/Cody       

[/quote]

Let''s hope that Lambert has the same idea: this looks an excellent line-up.

As a somewhat related aside, lots has been written already about Lambert shaking things up, shipping people out, bringing people in etc. etc. I don''t think major changes to the squad is a realistic proposition 10 days before the window closes and in the financial position we''re in. Lambert''s success or failure will depend firstly on his ability to identify his best team quickly and then deploy it in a formation that allows our best players to shine, and secondly on restoring confidence amongst the players as quickly as possible.

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