Hurray, the donkey is gone!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="ncfcfan"]Finally a manager has seen sense and got rid of Doherty! I think we will actually keep a clean sheet now.[/quote]

Who?

[Canary02 III 0]

I have to say that I was delighted to see us play without Doc. Someone as repeatedly dodgy as him simply doesn''t deserve to be the automatic pick that our previous (poor) managers have made him. In fairness I think if we get a break from Doc playing week in, week out, it could well prove to be good for both parties. We may realise the positive things he gives us which we take for granted, and he gets a little time without us blaming him for every goal we concede.

With the goals today, Askou was to blame for the first although the ball reached him and the striker far too easily for my liking and the team as a whole could have done more. With the second I don''t think there was too much wrong and it simply sat up perfectly for the guy to hit, which will happen sometimes and you have to expect these over the course of the season.

Askou is a big lump and for me you have to have only 1 from him, Doc and Nelson and play them aside a defender with some pace. Spillane played this role today and did well. I hope we play the two of them together for a run of games now because we need a settled partnership for them to be effective. 3 different centre back partnerships in 4 matches is a reason why we are looking defensively rocky. For me we''ve hit upon our best options now though.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

It''s not Doherty''s individual abilities that make him poor, it''s the affect he has on the team. He gets deeper and deeper until we get camped on the edge of our own area unable to break out, then there is a huge gap between the strikers and the defence which the midfield has to cover, resulting in attacks constantly breaking down, having that little bit more pace at the back means we can hold a higher line, getting on the front foot more easily.

[Badger 0]

My guess is that we will see plenty of the Doc this season. I wouldn''t say his replacements excelled.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Delia really it was nothing"]The goals that were conceded today would have been prevented by the doc. Saying that we were reasonably solid today. Sometimes i think people have a vendetta against him no matter what he does[/quote]

How would the first goal (an mistimed Askou passback) have been prevented by the Doherty?

Why do you make such dribble up??? [:$]

Spillane played very well in my opinion and although Askou lost his concentration once or twice I think that he shown far more potential than the Doherty has shown in 4 or 5 years with us now.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Delia really it was nothing"]The goals that were conceded today would have been prevented by the doc. Saying that we were reasonably solid today. Sometimes i think people have a vendetta against him no matter what he does[/quote]

How would the first goal (an mistimed Askou passback) have been prevented by the Doherty?

Why do you make such dribble up??? [:$]

Spillane played very well in my opinion and although Askou lost his concentration once or twice I think that he shown far more potential than the Doherty has shown in 4 or 5 years with us now.

[/quote]Did you enjoy your day Smudger? You went for the first time in aaages [:O][;)] Just joking mate [Y]

[Mason 47 1,373]

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Delia really it was nothing"]The goals that were conceded today would have been prevented by the doc. Saying that we were reasonably solid today. Sometimes i think people have a vendetta against him no matter what he does[/quote]

How would the first goal (an mistimed Askou passback) have been prevented by the Doherty?

Why do you make such dribble up??? [:$]

Spillane played very well in my opinion and although Askou lost his concentration once or twice I think that he shown far more potential than the Doherty has shown in 4 or 5 years with us now.

[/quote]

Mr Smudge, the first goal came because Askou mistook the flight of the ball and it bounced over his head leaving their forward with an easy chance. I put that down to the ball being in the sun but there you go. Ill check later on the highlights programme but Im fairly sure he wasnt trying to pass anything back, apologies if Im indeed wrong here.

It doesnt exactly curtail your point but dont accuse others of dribble when you arent exactly fact-dry yourself (he says, hoping to not have spewed an inaacurate argument himself).

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Mason 47"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Delia really it was nothing"]The goals that were conceded today would have been prevented by the doc. Saying that we were reasonably solid today. Sometimes i think people have a vendetta against him no matter what he does[/quote]

How would the first goal (an mistimed Askou passback) have been prevented by the Doherty?

Why do you make such dribble up??? [:$]

Spillane played very well in my opinion and although Askou lost his concentration once or twice I think that he shown far more potential than the Doherty has shown in 4 or 5 years with us now.

[/quote]

Mr Smudge, the first goal came because Askou mistook the flight of the ball and it bounced over his head leaving their forward with an easy chance. I put that down to the ball being in the sun but there you go. Ill check later on the highlights programme but Im fairly sure he wasnt trying to pass anything back, apologies if Im indeed wrong here.

It doesnt exactly curtail your point but dont accuse others of dribble when you arent exactly fact-dry yourself (he says, hoping to not have spewed an inaacurate argument himself).

[/quote]

You may be well be right Sir... is amazing what a few [B]''s and an afternoon in the sun can do to a shiny head!

It was Askou that was at fault for that goal though and the only person who had any chance of bailing him out would of been Alnwick in goal.  There is no chance that the pacey Doherty would of come in with a the mother of all sliding tackles from nowehere if he was on the pitch was there?

[Dronny Canary 0]

In summary - we''re still waiting for that commanding, solid centre half that we''ve needed for 4/5 years now.  Sounds like the ones we currently have at the club all have their weaknesses - or want to leave!

[Mason 47 1,373]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="Mason 47"][quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="Delia really it was nothing"]The goals that were conceded today would have been prevented by the doc. Saying that we were reasonably solid today. Sometimes i think people have a vendetta against him no matter what he does[/quote]

How would the first goal (an mistimed Askou passback) have been prevented by the Doherty?

Why do you make such dribble up??? [:$]

Spillane played very well in my opinion and although Askou lost his concentration once or twice I think that he shown far more potential than the Doherty has shown in 4 or 5 years with us now.

[/quote]

Mr Smudge, the first goal came because Askou mistook the flight of the ball and it bounced over his head leaving their forward with an easy chance. I put that down to the ball being in the sun but there you go. Ill check later on the highlights programme but Im fairly sure he wasnt trying to pass anything back, apologies if Im indeed wrong here.

It doesnt exactly curtail your point but dont accuse others of dribble when you arent exactly fact-dry yourself (he says, hoping to not have spewed an inaacurate argument himself).

[/quote]

You may be well be right Sir... is amazing what a few [B]''s and an afternoon in the sun can do to a shiny head!

It was Askou that was at fault for that goal though and the only person who had any chance of bailing him out would of been Alnwick in goal.  There is no chance that the pacey Doherty would of come in with a the mother of all sliding tackles from nowehere if he was on the pitch was there?

[/quote]

Perhaps Doherty would have leapt like a young salmon and headed the ball away, perhaps he would have pulled down their striker like a huggy bear trying in vain to catch a young salmon (such a good metaphor I have going here) and conceded a free kick that they score from anyway. Swings and roundabouts I guess, just so happens this time we gave away less then they did... so Hurray indeed, if for different reasons!

[Brendo 0]

Ahahahah i thought a moan from Smudger was on the cards [:D]

 

[Lambo 0]

While i don''t despise Doc the way some people do, i think the Spillane/Askou pairing has potential and i was more confident in them than i am Doc , Fair enough Askou was at fault for their first but generally i thought he was good today, i agree with an earlier post sayinig the second dropped nicely for their player.

I don''t know why people think Doc would have stopped them scoring where Askou failed, on Tuesday i specifically heard "and Docherty fails to clear it adequately" followed less than a minute later by "and City are a goal down"  Which applied to Askou''s error however he has the excuse of still adapting to the English game, if in another 5 games he''s still doing it i''d be worried.

If Spillane didn''t make the odd error at his age then i''d be very suprised,

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

knew we would win soon as i saw donkerty was out of the team :)

[Houston Canary 0]

[quote user="JTG"]Defence was very shaky today. Would certainly have been more solid with Doherty in there.

I am not Doherty''s biggest fan but the stick he gets on here is rediculous, over the top and unjust.
[/quote]

What the defenders of him seem to keep ignoring is the fact we scored FIVE goals.  The back 4 were instrumental in that.  Not only did they bring the ball up well, they finished a couple, too.  I don''t recall that happening much when the donkey is back there making an azz of himself.

[martin ayers 0]

a lot of people seem to be blaming askou for the first goal but just before he went up for the header he had the striker stand on the back of his heel so he couldn''t jump that''s why the ball bounced over his head

[Downloads 35]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]

[quote user="JTG"]Defence was very shaky today. Would certainly have been more solid with Doherty in there.

I am not Doherty''s biggest fan but the stick he gets on here is rediculous, over the top and unjust.
[/quote]

What the defenders of him seem to keep ignoring is the fact we scored FIVE goals.  The back 4 were instrumental in that.  Not only did they bring the ball up well, they finished a couple, too.  I don''t recall that happening much when the donkey is back there making an azz of himself.

[/quote]

I think that is what some people are missing and its also like the poster further up that said we get camped far too deep.

Spillane and Askou from what i have seen are good passers of the ball and if you get a good link up with the midfielders then mistakes are cut out and you end up doing less defending. If you lump the ball up or play a poor pass out to the midfield, then you can be back on the defence immediately.

That old saying that ''the best form of defence is attack'' will always be true and is even more true when you don''t have the greatest defence like us.

[topoftheleague 0]

ive got certain opinions of the great legend, but when is the last time you actually saw doc mark someone comfortably out of a game or play reasonably well? i cant think of 1 for a long time

[ZLF 271]

Opinion - Doc.. is one the main reasons why we''ve sunk so far over such a short period. when is the last time you actually saw doc mark someone comfortably out of a game or play reasonably well? i cant think of 1 for a long time

Fact - since relegation, we win more games,  lose fewer, gain more points per game and conceed fewer goals per game when he starts then when he does not.

Opinion - Based on the above fact I think that Doc is probably the best centre half at the club, 

Opinion - based on the above fact I think he has consistently been one of our best defenders since we were relegated. 

Opinion - I think we could do with better central defenders

Opinion - I think our back four has looked shaky this season,  incl doc. 

Opinon - I think Ots and our midfield are the prime reasons we have been defensively so poor over the last 3 seasons.

Fact - we have defended crosses poorly this season

Fact - we conceeded too many goals to late arriving midfielders last season

Opinion - I think Doc is an "ugly" footballer.  effective but does not play a pretty game.

Opinion - Berthel Askou and Spillane were good yesterday and can pass out of defence

Opinion - I think that BA & S have funadamental problems that were evident yesterday against very poor opponents that will be exploited by better players 

Fact - I want our defenders to do defend,  I am not worried if they can defend and dont score,  scoring and not defending is not a strength we need in our defenders. 

Opinion - I think we are harder to score against with a better midfield and Spillane at right back with Doc in the middle  than without Doc in the side.   

Fact - My opinion that  Doc is better than those seen as alternatives.the above does not mean that I think doc is fantastic.  

Fact - I would like us to buy a better center half

Fact - we conceeded two extrenely soft goals against a v poor Wycombe due to not one but 2 central defensive errors. Those errors were not Docs fault, but give it time 

Opinion - I feel that other areas of the team/defence require strengthening before the centre, right back,  right wing,  centre forward 2nd centre back,  before replacing Doc.

[topoftheleague 0]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz £5 all u can drink zippers? boys forget doc the cricket is on

[Yelverton Yella 0]

[quote user="martin ayers"]a lot of people seem to be blaming askou for the first goal but just before he went up for the header he had the striker stand on the back of his heel so he couldn''t jump that''s why the ball bounced over his head[/quote]I''m surprised nobody else noticed this. Askou''s boot was half off and he had to put it on again after the ball went in. In general, I think Askou and Spillane is a partnership well worth persevering with and should be given a few games to settle down. I am by no means a ''doc hater'' but I agree with the points other people have made- he seems to have a habit of spreading nervousness and panic rather than the calm reassurance that you would like to see from your captain and a senior pro.

[ZLF 271]

So he cant jump without his boot?  Fantastic excuse making for a error that would be painful on a sunday morning,  it was thethrid time he misjudged and easy header and got it wrong.  And ALL centre backs should be criticised for such and error,  not just BA

[S.Yorks Canary 0]

what about nelson then...is he finished after one game....not worth another chance?

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Downloads"]

Spillane and Askou from what i have seen are good passers of the ball

[/quote]

When exactly have Askou and Spillane shown themselves to be "good" passers?

They play the same sideways passes along the back four that any other defender players. Askou has hit a couple of hopeful clearances/balls over the top up the pitch. And I think yesterday the only time Spillane tried to knock a decent ball forward he got it wrong and it sliced out for a throw in.

And just to clarify, this post isn''t really so much commenting on whether they are good passers or or not as such it''s just wanting to know where the evidence for this has come from because so far there has been nothing to show that they are "good passers".

I think the best ball played out of defence yesterday came from Semmy when he dropped a great ball in to Cody. Not that he''s likely to get much credit for it.

Dejan can knock a good ball, I''m not convinced any of the other centre backs can.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Mason 47"]

I think Askou should get the excuse that it was his first time playing in front of a crowd that big.

[/quote]I haven''t seen the same generosity offered to Theolilitis![quote user="Mason 47"]

Id also like to commend Lambert for picking Korey Smith, I thought he was excellent today and his tenacity and enthusiasm really kept the midfield ticking over.

[/quote]Agree completely - like a little terrier!

[Mason 47 1,373]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Mason 47"]

I think Askou should get the excuse that it was his first time playing in front of a crowd that big.

[/quote]

I haven''t seen the same generosity offered to Theolilitis!

[/quote]

I did mean it in the same way though, its not much of an excuse but.... if the shoe fits [:P]

[catlineker 11]

Theoklitos as mentioned a few times before has played in front of bigger crowds than what we get every week for Melbourne Victory who average well over 30,000.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Two Wycombe goals today due to two centre back mistakes.  Make of that what you will.

[/quote]

both mistakes by Askou as well.. but no one will slag him off for his goals will they? if that was the doc he''d be lynched.

jas :)

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Flying Pastie"]Did we have anyone to win headers in our box today? Not really. Did we let in goals when the ball should have been easily cleared? Yes.

The Doc''s job is to stop the sort of goals that we let in today. I ain''t saying he''s perfect but he''s not as bad as is being made out here and we clearly missed some important qualities that he brings.

Do we continue playing Spillane and Bertel Askou and remain vulnerable to crosses, long balls and big strikers? Bit risky no?
[/quote]

Are you serious?  Askou made some positional errors but his heading was fine.  He was rararely beaten in the air and some of his headed clearances went half the length of the pitch.  Even against Colchester Nelson won more headers than the doc and Nelson was marking Platt

[Mason 47 1,373]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Two Wycombe goals today due to two centre back mistakes.  Make of that what you will.

[/quote]

both mistakes by Askou as well.. but no one will slag him off for his goals will they? if that was the doc he''d be lynched.

jas :)

[/quote]

Because Askou took control of Spillanes body with his mind and made him be outmuscled by Harrold? Pretty impressive that you can spot that sort of thing on tv replays.