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Target Man

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Why are so many people so desperate for us to play with a target man?  All we hear is "We should have kept Iwan" and so on but I believe having a target man has been one of our main problems when not playing well in recent seasons.  It just encourages our players to boot it long and hope someone will get their head on it rather than passing the ball though midfield.  When Iwan was out of the side last year we played much better passing football.

It is clear to me that what we need up-front is penalty box striker, a "goal-hanger" if you like (Mr Raven will know about this from what I remember about playing football at school).  When Robinson saved from Hux Sunday, there should have been someone in the box for him to pass to for a simple tap-in.  Hux is more of a provider than a goal-scorer and we need someone quick enough and instinctive enough to get in the box, maybe that''s leon but I don''t know.

 

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I completely agree that the desire for a target man is a bit of a myth.

Hucks and Leon were tried in the Bradford game which ultimately didn''t work out well, but I don''t agree that they should scrap the idea forever on the back of one result. As far as I''m concerned playing two smaller strikers was not the problem in itself, it was the way in which the rest of the team continued to play as if we had a big man upfront. Dare I say that a key reason why the Bradford game was a disaster was due to a certain Scotsman''s tendency to "hoof!" it anywhere which was completely unsuited to the two strikers and meant we were unable to keep hold of possession, thus putting ourselves under pressure. We have enough quality players in our squad now to get the ball on the deck and to either pass it through the opposition or to work the channels. Even long balls (as all teams have to simply clear the lines at points in the game) are not necessarily a problem if they are diagonal balls and if they are long enough to at least make the defence back-peddle, let alone turn them completely allowing Leon or Hucks to chase behind them. Let''s face it, 7 times out of 10 when we play it long we are launching something for Hucks to chase onto anyway, not aiming at the current target man. I''m also in agreement with Leon, that he is far from the worst striker in terms of winning balls in the air and using his strength.

Playing a rigid 4-4-2 with Hucks alongside a target man just might not gain us enough goals with the likelihood that the targetman would probably be Doherty or Svenny, and the fact that for all Hucks does for us, he would admit himself that he isn''t going to score the goals we need on his own. If so, then it''s up to Worthy, Dougie and Steve to find a way to change it. There''s no point in us sitting here for four months and saying "well if we had been able to get another targetman etc" if we are not scoring goals.

I am completely convinced that there is more than enough creativity in our squad to create plenty of chances in all our games, particularly when you watch a lot of the defences in this league. We need a striker in our team capable of taking the chances, particularly those Hucks creates. He is so quick and direct that it is often difficult for the midfield to get there in time to support him. I think Leon has as good a chance as anyone to do so. Trouble is, that would involve taking a bit of a risk in trying it out (and in a run of games, not just as a one-of), and with every point being precious, it is a difficult decision to make. But if we are sitting here at the end of December wanting a striker because we haven''t scored enough goals, and Leon''s only been making subs appearances for four months, it would be a massive shame. Leon just has the look of a natural goalscorer about him. You can never really tell if a striker can make the step up to scoring regularly at Prem level, but at the same time you will never know if he isn''t given a proper run of games to find out.

Perhaps it''s now over to Worthy to find a way to incorporate Hucks and Leon in the same team. Worthy showed on Sunday that he isn''t obsessed with playing a rigid 4-4-2 so maybe, with a lot of work at Colney, a plan can be formed. It''s certainly worth a go in my book.

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leon said today (on a website, not too me personally), that it was a myth that he and darren can''t play up front together and he wishes Nigel would give him a chance, so do I and most people on here I think but his attitude is good and he''s prepared to be patient and wait and that''s encouraging, you never hear any dissenting voices coming out of the club.

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i dont really believe a target man is that useful in the Premiership to be honest. In Division one its is ok, there is more time and space for someone like Iwan to pop in the odd header etc. But i think in the Premiership a target man would just not get the ball. They are too reliant on the other players, they need a good cross etc. In the Premiership i think a target man would just get blocked off and not get many oportunities. A player like McKenzie is more useful because he is so mobile, he is strong, and can hold up the ball, he can keep up with the pace aswel. A target man is useful to have in a side, but just not vital.

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I have to agree that a target man is not essential, but given our stil poor quality distribution from the back, a striker who can make the ball stick and link with Hux is.  This can easily be Leon.

Looking at Sundays game again there is still no sign of any understanding between Doc and Hux and so we may as well give Leon at least a half.   Mind you linking with Hux aint easy given his tendency to always drift wide!

I have made the same point about target men when arguing that its the quality and not height of our central defenders that is important..

OTBC

 

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mcs, as usual you talk a lot of sense, we have to find another way to attack and must not rely totally on a target man, or whatever he might be called.  This is real football now and if necessary the squad will have to go back to basics to learn to pass to each other.  It isn''t that difficult - but using someone to (hopefully) win greeno''s goal kicks or a defensive hoof is both negative and outdated.  It is time to move on. 

I really like Leon, he is (or would be, given the chance) the most natural goal seeker we have, he reminds me so much of robins or cureton, we should be playing him every game, for the whole 90 minutes.  Thank god we didn''t splash out all our dosh on a target man in the summer, we need someone to be able to keep pace with hucks (this could be leon, let''s hope he gets the chance to prove himself) if,  sadly he isn''t going to make the grade, we then have to invest (as in hucks last year) and go for real quality. Hucks is not god, he cannot do it on his own. 

We have taken a long, long time to arrive in the prem, let''s not forget where we are and adapt accordingly, that means no more hoofing, no more target men and learning to pass it on the deck.  I know it isn''t going to be easy, but it has to start somewhere. The time is now.

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Rubbish. We do need a target man. In this Division passing and playing flowing football is extremely difficult and sometimes there is no option but to play the long ball game. If we have no-one up front to hold it up then we will find ourselves in big trouble.

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Bedscanary - do you think we are still in Div 1? Did you see how Arsenal played - all movement, assured touches and quality passing?

I know that not all teams play as well as Arsenal but that is the type of game they try and play. Very few signs have the traditional english centre forward any more and City do need to move away from that and encourage better passing. After 3 games we had more failed passes and the worst pass completion ratio of any prem side. I nee dto check where we are now but I dont expect much difference in our position partly due to a relaince on a long ball out approach.

Whatever happens we are stuck with the currrent set of strikers until Jan and Worthy has plenty of games to see which combination works well.

I would give the doc/hux partnership a couple more games - doc deserves 4/5 games to prove his worth. If they are still not hitting it off then Worthy can either bring Sven back or, my preference, give Leon a few games as starting partner. In the meantime Worthy should be linking Hux and Leon on the training ground so each understands what their role in the partnership is to overcome the they are too similar factor.

MCS is right that we do need to move away from the just get the ball t o hux at any cost approach. Eventually opponents will either stop hux or stop the ball getting to him and we will carry no threat, or worst still he will get injured and the whole team is severely damaged. A more rounded approach is needed that encourages improved passing and more that one attacking outlet. With Leon and Jonson (who is still likely to come good given time) I am sure we have this in the squad already.

OTBC

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The alternative to a target man to hold the ball up is to have the man take it up himself and then pass it on, we have that man in Hucks, trouble is he does it and often nobody has kept up with him to receive the pass. We also  have a man fast enough to do that task too, Leo.

Remember the Arsenal 1st. goal against us ?

 Henry picked the ball up on the half way line facing his own goal, evaded the attentions of half the City team and passed to the one man who had kept up with him, he was unmarked by the rest of the City team who hadn''t got back quick enough. No clever tactics there !

If it''s good enough for Arsenal then ........

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I would love to see Leon start against villa, and I think someone of his style of football is better suited to the ''diamond'' formation we were playing against spurs. With Bentley playing behind the front 2, it means he will be feeding balls through, and not crossing them from the wing, so the strikers need to have the speed of hucks and leon, but also leons pouchers touch. As good as doherty has been in his target man role, I think if we are going to play the diamond formation it means we need someone of leons style instead.

The game against bradford was played against basically their whole team in defence and it was never a true test of a hucks-leon partnership. Obviously taking off someone with the aerial abilities of doherty means we lose something, but I think Leon can make up for that in other ways, aslong as the team plays to our strikers strengths. With Leon playing, it could mean we keep the ball down for longer periods and we''ll keep posession alot more, which seems to be the key in this league.

Also, its good to see Jarvis is trying to prove himself to worthy - a goal for england u19s and 2 goals against chelsea reserves, not bad!

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We have the players that can keep up with hux! huckerby is quick on the ball, we''d just need someone who can run as fast without it, think about it! how about playing hux in the role bentley had against tottenham, drifting behind the front two. leon and A.N. Other up front sticking bentley in midfield?

While i''m on the subject of midfield what the hell is wrong with Holt? he can''t pass, can''t close down and can''t keep up with play! Francis is doing a great job defensively in midfield on his own (partly because he has to with holt playing) maybe bentley can play in midfield alongside him?

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I agree with much of this, and think that Leon really can be that goal poacher we need to support Hucks. The diamond works fine but there needs to be support in the box (how often did Bentley get that far forward on Sunday?) and the Doc just can''t keep up with Hucks pace.

The problem is I think Worthy has got himself a bit stuck here though - Flemo and Charlton seems to be working as a central defensive pairing, but given their lack of height he want''s a taller striker to pull back for corners/setpieces.

It''ll also be different home and away - more expectation on us to attack at home so the midfield SHOULD be able to provide more support, so maybe it''s as we were this sat and dependant on performance Leon at Liverpool.

Nigel''s shown us he can make the difficult decisions so far, so let''s hope he continues!

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leon and jarvis to start up front then! didn''t jonson say he could play up front too?

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Generally agree with this. Two fast mobile strikers will work better in this league than slow, lumbering old style forwards. The forwards doing well these days are the likes of Defoe, Bellamy, Henry (doesn''t use his height), Angell and so on. Even England use small forwards.

The big guys - well they''re not generally effective are they? Heskey. Fergussen. Some exceptions of course - Beattie. Modern day centre backs of calibre will just eat them up.

If there''s speedy support coming through behind them from midfield then its a potent option. And we have Bentley, Jonssen - even Francis who can do that.

Nige - give it a go.

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we really need to give jarvis a go. i have this bad re-occurring dream where we buy another target man in january and end up loaning jarvis out to a lower division club, only for him to leave for a nominal fee and eventually become a 6m+ player!

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It IS possible to play a short oassing game without a target man, but it requires everyone on the pitch to be a good passer, comfortable on the ball, and always looking tom receive the ball.  We won''t be able to do that while we have the likes of Holt & Fleming in the team. 

We often play a long ball not because there is a target man up there but because we have no short options.  For a team short on quality (and in this league we are) a target man is unfortunately almost essential.  That said, McKenzie isn''t bad in the air and could probably do a reasonable job.  Seems harsh that a Mac/Hucks partnership is being condemned on the basis of one game where we actually created some really good chances but (ironically given the reason being forward for his inclusion) McKenzie just hashed them up...

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maybe if i dressed up as a cheerleader nigel will notice...

TARGET MAN GO AWAY, BRING ON JARVIS ANY DAY! YEEEEAAAAHHHHH JARVIS! wanna touch my pom-poms?

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Target man.. doesn''t have to be in the Iwan mould, nor does it have to be the long ball punt. as long as the ball can be held up and layed off

 we finished last season playing passing football and at time we were breathtaking to watch.. the quickier we get back to that the better...

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Mr Carra makes a good point about a lack of options - something that was evident last season too.

What made Arsenal so good to watch was that there was always 2 players available for the ball and the whole team seemed to be in perpetual motion, looking for or trying to create space for themselves or a colleague to receive the ball.

In contrast our midfield takes far too long to make themselves available and on times seem to hide with an opponent rather than wanting the ball. The same applies to the forwards, including Hux who too frequently are too static. This is something we can solve on the training ground but takes time to get right.

Az - RU Ryan Jarvis? I would not contemplate starting with him just yet but would like to see him get some time during the season though. With Doc up front Sven and Leon do seem logical subs, and having 3 strikers on the bench does seem like overkill. Leon and Jarvis on the bench would be good though.

OTBC

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