Six days into the season - but long overdue

[Skint Eastwood 0]

Take your point about the more professional nature of the new board members, but I think the timing of this is just awful.

I guess it all depends on who the new manager is, and what his success rate will be early doors. Will they give him 20 games then sack him too if we aren''t in the top few? Or will he, unlike Gunn, be afforded the luxury of building his own team?

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Why didn''t DM get the Arsenal job then?.....And why has he ''downsized'' his career at Carra?

[/quote]Because he didn''t: he was just linked with them. As for us, there are good things about the club as well as bad things - but with his background, we''re punching well above our weight in terms of who our CEO is now I''d say.

[Salopian 1]

Are you prepared for the new aggressive management to appoint a divisive manager? For instance many would like Boothroyd, but others are not keen on the long-ball approach he has adopted? To put it another way, we all want success and we all want good football, for which we are traditionally known.If the only candidate available who is likely to make us successful uses an approach which is unattractive to many supporters, and may not succeed at higher levels, do we go for him? Or we we use him for promotion and then look for someone else?

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Skint Eastwood"]Take your point about the more professional nature of the new board members, but I think the timing of this is just awful.

I guess it all depends on who the new manager is, and what his success rate will be early doors. Will they give him 20 games then sack him too if we aren''t in the top few? Or will he, unlike Gunn, be afforded the luxury of building his own team?[/quote]Here''s the thing. Whenever a manager leaves a football club, the timing is invariably regarded as awful. Of course, it''s ridiculous they didn''t do this in the summer - but I''ve at least tried to go into the reasons why in my OP. I doubt a new manager will get new players; but at this level, our squad should certainly be good enough. It''s enough to entice a decent manager I''d say - and sure, there''d be pressure. Pressure and ambition go hand in hand: we have to go up, this season.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Salopian"]Are you prepared for the new aggressive management to appoint a divisive manager? For instance many would like Boothroyd, but others are not keen on the long-ball approach he has adopted? To put it another way, we all want success and we all want good football, for which we are traditionally known.If the only candidate available who is likely to make us successful uses an approach which is unattractive to many supporters, and may not succeed at higher levels, do we go for him? Or we we use him for promotion and then look for someone else?[/quote]I''d love that. The overriding priority is promotion, so we need someone who can get us promotion. After that, who knows? Football is a ruthless world, and we''ve lost more and more ground by becoming more and more spineless: which starts at the top, and filters into the whole club and team. If you can''t beat ''em, join ''em: we''ll still maintain all our unique, ''nice'' characteristics: we were a much admired club under Robert Chase and Sir Arthur South too! It''s just crucial that we stop acting as though nice is all we are.As for Boothroyd: his legacy at Watford worries me, and I''d be concerned whether his style of play would suit the players we have. But he knows the club inside out, clearly has a deep affection for it, and was very good at Vicarage Road for getting on for three years. I''d take him.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="gsr600"]yeah ok well be on the road to success if hasselbank is appointed will we, ok i made a mistake about his appointing hodgeson but fulham had there most successfull season once he had left them,[/quote]Sheesh. First, we haven''t appointed Hasselbaink yet, and I''d like to think it''s just his agent bigging him up. Second - so what? Does being a part of years of success at Celtic, years of stability at Fulham, then appointing someone who turned into an absolute masterstroke not count at all?

[Skint Eastwood 0]

So Gunn has assembled a squad ''certainly good enough'' yet he deserved only one competitive game with this squad before being sacked? You aren''t making sense now.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

It''s one thing putting together a decent squad of players. It''s another thing altogether to show yourself to be capable of managing them.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Skint Eastwood"]So Gunn has assembled a squad ''certainly good enough'' yet he deserved only one competitive game with this squad before being sacked? You aren''t making sense now.[/quote]The squad is good enough, bar the keeper he signed. But a good squad still needs to be motivated, organised and inspired; and a manager needs to understand tactics and make substitutions. Gunn couldn''t do any of it. He also seems to have fallen out with his handpicked backroom staff: if he can''t even keep that together, what price the team?To put it another way: do you honestly think managing a football team is like a Football Manager computer game? Or does someone require real skill and ability to do it?

[ref89 0]

A good manager will adapt to the style of team suited to the team.  Why does everyone assume that if we got Boothroyd in he would suddenly shoehorn us into playing long ball - he was a coach here for years FFS.

[ref89 0]

The board obviously saw things that WE DID NOT SEE that led them to get rid of him.

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Skint Eastwood"]So Gunn has assembled a squad ''certainly good enough'' yet he deserved only one competitive game with this squad before being sacked? You aren''t making sense now.[/quote]The squad is good enough, bar the keeper he signed. But a good squad still needs to be motivated, organised and inspired; and a manager needs to understand tactics and make substitutions. Gunn couldn''t do any of it. He also seems to have fallen out with his handpicked backroom staff: if he can''t even keep that together, what price the team?To put it another way: do you honestly think managing a football team is like a Football Manager computer game? Or does someone require real skill and ability to do it?[/quote]

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="gsr600"]yeah ok well be on the road to success if hasselbank is appointed will we, ok i made a mistake about his appointing hodgeson but fulham had there most successfull season once he had left them,[/quote]Sheesh. First, we haven''t appointed Hasselbaink yet, and I''d like to think it''s just his agent bigging him up. Second - so what? Does being a part of years of success at Celtic, years of stability at Fulham, then appointing someone who turned into an absolute masterstroke not count at all?[/quote]

firstly we need someone to succeed gunn, secondly we need someone with experience, and according to radio norfolk weve interviewed hasselbank who has no experience as a manager, if he is appointed it would be because the board wish it,

some masterstroke getting rid of a manager who won 4 - 0 against yeovil and bought in 12 new players and went unbeaten in a preseason against a championship side and a premiership side and possible one of the best youth teams in the country man u.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Skint Eastwood"]So Gunn has assembled a squad ''certainly good enough'' yet he deserved only one competitive game with this squad before being sacked? You aren''t making sense now.[/quote]

The squad is good enough, bar the keeper he signed. But a good squad still needs to be motivated, organised and inspired; and a manager needs to understand tactics and make substitutions. Gunn couldn''t do any of it. He also seems to have fallen out with his handpicked backroom staff: if he can''t even keep that together, what price the team?

To put it another way: do you honestly think managing a football team is like a Football Manager computer game? Or does someone require real skill and ability to do it?
[/quote]

Hi Shaun happy birthday for yesterday!

Strange you only seem to turn up on this board when something major is happening or about to happen. What''s the opposite of an Albatros.

You know my opinions of Gunn and I still think the rash of sackings and his appointment was to spike the St.Andrews Hall meeting.

Do not underestimate the devious duo they have not achieved their position in the media by being "nice people".

The reaction on Saturday by the crowd and maybe Monday night as well shook her and another sacrifice was needed. We all expected it would happen but the speed and timeing to me smacks of panic not considered thought.

Perhaps the new CEO can control them but I doubt it. Lets see who is now handed the poison chalice and the length of contract they are given before rejoicing in the streets!

The last few must have cost the club millions to straighten out and they say DS/MWJ are benifactors.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="gsr600"]Sheesh. First, we haven''t appointed Hasselbaink yet, and I''d like to think it''s just his agent bigging him up. Second - so what? Does being a part of years of success at Celtic, years of stability at Fulham, then appointing someone who turned into an absolute masterstroke not count at all?firstly we need someone to succeed gunn, secondly we need someone with experience, and according to radio norfolk weve interviewed hasselbank who has no experience as a manager, if he is appointed it would be because the board wish it,

some masterstroke getting rid of a manager who won 4 - 0 against yeovil and bought in 12 new players and went unbeaten in a preseason against a championship side and a premiership side and possible one of the best youth teams in the country man u.[/quote]The manager was clueless beyond belief. He even changed a system that had worked great in preseason for another one as soon as the actual campaign began! He didn''t know what he was doing; he had to go.And to repeat: we haven''t appointed JFH yet! Or are you going to react to everyone we might be linked with and assume their appointment is imminent?

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="The Butler"]

Hi Shaun happy birthday for yesterday!

Strange you only seem to turn up on this board when something major is happening or about to happen. What''s the opposite of an Albatros.

You know my opinions of Gunn and I still think the rash of sackings and his appointment was to spike the St.Andrews Hall meeting.

Do not underestimate the devious duo they have not achieved their position in the media by being "nice people".

The reaction on Saturday by the crowd and maybe Monday night as well shook her and another sacrifice was needed. We all expected it would happen but the speed and timeing to me smacks of panic not considered thought.

Perhaps the new CEO can control them but I doubt it. Lets see who is now handed the poison chalice and the length of contract they are given before rejoicing in the streets!

The last few must have cost the club millions to straighten out and they say DS/MWJ are benifactors.

[/quote]Thanks mate! Remember though: if we go into admin, the devious duo lose everything. It''d be the final indignity for them. I think that''s what''s forced this: we have to win promotion, or else. So as my Mum used to say, "don''t care was made to care".

[Skint Eastwood 0]

OK. Seems you are saying the 4 - 0 was a fluke, and 7 - 1 a more fair reflection of Gunn''s abilities. I say its too early to judge either way. I wasn''t that impressed with Gunn towards the end of last season, but he was a new manager working in very difficult circumstances. If you let someone build a new team you should give them a chance to show what they can do with it.

I re-read your OP and notice you made the same point that I''m making - Gunn''s sacking can only be judged once we know who the new man is.

[O.T.B.C 0]

Someone said on the WOTB that the Mirror broke the story and maybe it was due to happen after todays game but had to act quicker. What do people think?

Mirror not reknown for their accuracy, but it may have some mileage.

[Buncey 1]

21 games 6 wins. I agree with you bigfellar. Bryan Gunn is/was simply not good enough as a manager. The decision to give him a new contract must have been enforced by Delia. McNally has shown that he''s not messing about, which is something we really need to do. The club over the past 5 years has shown itself to be fundementally weak and fragile. Southampton showed their intent this season with the signing of Pardew (I know some will claim he''s not a great manager, but he has the experience, I feel you need in the position we find ourselves in). I sincerely hope this is a corner we have turned and that things are on the way up, but I can''t share the optomism.

[Mello Yello 2,287]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="Skint Eastwood"]So Gunn has assembled a squad ''certainly good enough'' yet he deserved only one competitive game with this squad before being sacked? You aren''t making sense now.[/quote]

The squad is good enough, bar the keeper he signed. But a good squad still needs to be motivated, organised and inspired; and a manager needs to understand tactics and make substitutions. Gunn couldn''t do any of it. He also seems to have fallen out with his handpicked backroom staff: if he can''t even keep that together, what price the team?

To put it another way: do you honestly think managing a football team is like a Football Manager computer game? Or does someone require real skill and ability to do it?
[/quote]

Is the squad good enough? A defeat of less proportions last Saturday would have been annoying.....But a 7-1 demolition is totally unacceptable. One guy in our back four who played pre-season games but wasn''t in our squad last season, one other guy who hadn''t featured heavily in the friendlies....The rest were all gelling to solidify having played many pre-season games against mediocre opposition....We capitulated in front of 25,200+ and it won''t be forgotten.

10 players in front of the keeper....where were they? Even when outfield players have to don the keeper jersey for whatever....they rarely see 5/6/7 goals net bound whistle past them. 

I have serious doubts about our squad....one or two individuals seem ok....but for many of our others?....Just not good enough.

The club''s been run by Charlatans.....and we now get what we deserve and it''s being exposed and coming to the fore.

We are a fuggin'' football laughing stock....and anyone who is in denial of it is quite frankly....one of the reasons why we are.   

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Skint Eastwood"]OK. Seems you are saying the 4 - 0 was a fluke, and 7 - 1 a more fair reflection of Gunn''s abilities. I say its too early to judge either way. I wasn''t that impressed with Gunn towards the end of last season, but he was a new manager working in very difficult circumstances. If you let someone build a new team you should give them a chance to show what they can do with it.

I re-read your OP and notice you made the same point that I''m making - Gunn''s sacking can only be judged once we know who the new man is.[/quote]I absolutely agree with your last sentence: you''re dead right. As it is, we won 4-0 against an awful side at this level away from home in the League Cup, where there was less pressure. What would''ve happened in a league game in front of 25000 at CR, especially if we''d gone behind, as all sides do sometimes? If Gunn had stayed, I think we''d have won a few (games we could cruise through), lost a few, and lost a load we should''ve won with a proper manager in charge, leaving us mid-table at best, and stranded. Which isn''t what Foulger put his money in for, isn''t what the players were signed for, and isn''t what McNally will have signed up to either.

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="gsr600"]Sheesh. First, we haven''t appointed Hasselbaink yet, and I''d like to think it''s just his agent bigging him up. Second - so what? Does being a part of years of success at Celtic, years of stability at Fulham, then appointing someone who turned into an absolute masterstroke not count at all?firstly we need someone to succeed gunn, secondly we need someone with experience, and according to radio norfolk weve interviewed hasselbank who has no experience as a manager, if he is appointed it would be because the board wish it,

some masterstroke getting rid of a manager who won 4 - 0 against yeovil and bought in 12 new players and went unbeaten in a preseason against a championship side and a premiership side and possible one of the best youth teams in the country man u.[/quote]The manager was clueless beyond belief. He even changed a system that had worked great in preseason for another one as soon as the actual campaign began! He didn''t know what he was doing; he had to go.And to repeat: we haven''t appointed JFH yet! Or are you going to react to everyone we might be linked with and assume their appointment is imminent?[/quote]

i never said he wasnt clueless and i agree he shouldve gone but he shouldve gone in june if not he shouldve been given at least 6 games into the season, and i was always against his appointment in the first place but what we need is someone with expereince we should be interviewing thos with that experience not those with none,

i wouldnt react so badly if the news was saying we had interviewed mark robbins or aidy boothroyd or coppell as they all have experience and would be a step in the right direction, and no where did i say he was on the verge of signing,

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

Is the squad good enough? A defeat of less proportions last Saturday would have been annoying.....But a 7-1 demolition is totally unacceptable. One guy in our back four who played pre-season games but wasn''t in our squad last season, one other guy who hadn''t featured heavily in the friendlies....The rest were all gelling to solidify having played many pre-season games against mediocre opposition....We capitulated in front of 25,200+ and it won''t be forgotten.

10 players in front of the keeper....where were they? Even when outfield players have to don the keeper jersey for whatever....they rarely see 5/6/7 goals net bound whistle past them. 

I have serious doubts about our squad....one or two individuals seem ok....but for many of our others?....Just not good enough.

The club''s been run by Charlatans.....and we now get what we deserve and it''s being exposed and coming to the fore.

We are a fuggin'' football laughing stock....and anyone who is in denial of it is quite frankly....one of the reasons why we are.   

[/quote]Properly managed, yes, I think it is. I bet most other managers in this league think so too. Poor squads can achieve remarkable things as this level, let alone decent ones: they just need organising, motivating and inspiring, as I keep saying. And yes, we are a laughing stock at present: but whereas last weekend, I felt the club was getting everything it deserved after the way it''d behaved for so long, this weekend, I''m more hopeful. Everything will depend on who we appoint.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="The Butler"]

Hi Shaun happy birthday for yesterday!

Strange you only seem to turn up on this board when something major is happening or about to happen. What''s the opposite of an Albatros.

You know my opinions of Gunn and I still think the rash of sackings and his appointment was to spike the St.Andrews Hall meeting.

Do not underestimate the devious duo they have not achieved their position in the media by being "nice people".

The reaction on Saturday by the crowd and maybe Monday night as well shook her and another sacrifice was needed. We all expected it would happen but the speed and timeing to me smacks of panic not considered thought.

Perhaps the new CEO can control them but I doubt it. Lets see who is now handed the poison chalice and the length of contract they are given before rejoicing in the streets!

The last few must have cost the club millions to straighten out and they say DS/MWJ are benifactors.

[/quote]

Thanks mate! Remember though: if we go into admin, the devious duo lose everything. It''d be the final indignity for them. I think that''s what''s forced this: we have to win promotion, or else. So as my Mum used to say, "don''t care was made to care".
[/quote]

The last roll of the dice. Could be, 9million all on riding on the red!

Sounds like a good theme for a disaster movie[:D]

Their only chance then is success for this season and a hope of a sale of some description on promotion.

Two good cup runs for the money, unearth some decent young players to sell on. An upturn in the property market to get rid of the millstone of the LSE land. A buyer for the hotel and...........

If not we are stuck again with no money for a Championship team and the merry go round restarts.

No one could ever say supporting City was dull!!

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

.We seem to have entered a looking-glass universe, in which people who

three days ago were calling for Gunn to be sacked are now complaining

that their wish has come true...Moving on, I would agree with

most of what thebigfeller has said, although I''m not sure how much of

Celtic''s success should be ascribed to McNally - he was sales and

marketing director there rather than chief executive.I have no

idea how successful he will be here, or how effective Bowkett and

Phillips will be. But the mere fact that Smith and Jones brought in

three new people always was going to be extremely significant. On any

boardroom issue S&J (if you think they are the problem) can be

out-voted 4-2.This week one of two things happened:1. The six directors decided (genuinely unanimously) to sack Gunn.2. There was a 4-2 majority for sacking Gunn and Smith and Jones changed their view/vote to make it publicly unanimous.Either

way, the new board - faced with its first big decision - has made the

right decision. How is that a bad thing, or a sign that nothing has

changed or ever will change?PS. It will NOT be Jimmy-Floyd...

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"].

We seem to have entered a looking-glass universe, in which people who three days ago were calling for Gunn to be sacked are now complaining that their wish has come true...

I have no idea how successful he will be here, or how effective Bowkett and Phillips will be. But the mere fact that Smith and Jones brought in three new people always was going to be extremely significant. On any boardroom issue S&J (if you think they are the problem) can be out-voted 4-2.

This week one of two things happened:

1. The six directors decided (genuinely unanimously) to sack Gunn.

2. There was a 4-2 majority for sacking Gunn and Smith and Jones changed their view/vote to make it publicly unanimous.

Either way, the new board - faced with its first big decision - has made the right decision. How is that a bad thing, or a sign that nothing has changed or ever will change?

PS. It will NOT be Jimmy-Floyd...


[/quote]

The decision to give McNally a seat on the board straight away looks like a crucial one.  I was rather surprised, since Doncaster wasn''t on the board for at least his first five years here.  As CE he attended board meetings but didn''t have a vote.

Even though it may have worked in our favour on this occasion, in principle I don''t agree with it because it blurs the boundaries.  McNally is an employee of the club.  What happens if they want to sack him?

 

[Skint Eastwood 0]

Last word from me.

Bigfeller, let me just say I appreciate you well-written and considered opinions. I think you are being too quick to praise the board for this move, but it''s good to see someone has some optimism for the future, even if I don''t share it!

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="Skint Eastwood"]Last word from me.

Bigfeller, let me just say I appreciate you well-written and considered opinions. I think you are being too quick to praise the board for this move, but it''s good to see someone has some optimism for the future, even if I don''t share it![/quote]

i agree, but i do have optimism because i have to believe there is away forward for the club,

good times at NCFC here they come, (hopefully)

[thebigfeller 200]

Thanks guys. A bit of consensus on here? Whatever next?! I disagree with CC about McNally''s place on the board though: it''s absolutely crucial that the CEO and public face of the club has such a position. Why should he stand or fall on decisions he has no say in? And if they wanted to sack him, it''d only take a 4-2 majority - but crucially, because it''d take four votes, it couldn''t just happen because Tweedledum and Tweedledee had had yet another of the brain farts they seem to specialise in.All on who we appoint now. Fingers crossed, for all our sakes!

[Yellow Rose of Texas 0]

This is a top notch discussion ...... enjoyed reading every bit of it.

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"].

PS. It will NOT be Jimmy-Floyd...

[/quote]One glance at this post would have spared a lot of you a great deal of angst this afternoon!