Rolf Harris 31 Posted August 16, 2009 Arsenal 6 Everton 0hmm this was on the openning day of the prem so maybe the colchester match was just a fluke beacause 6-0 arsenal seems a fluke aswell, everton are not a bad side they have some good players?so would people agree that maybe the two matches were just werid openning day flukes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Excited Canary 19 Posted August 16, 2009 It was 6-1, Saha scored in added on time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rolf Harris 31 Posted August 16, 2009 ok sorry 6-1 then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syteanric 1 Posted August 16, 2009 i expect David Moyes to be promptly sacked after this debacle then.jas :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Humphrey 13 Posted August 16, 2009 The difference being, of course, that Moyes has consistently had Everton challenging the top six in the Premier League on relatively limited resources and has built an impressive squad considering, taking them to the FA Cup Final and Europe. And let''s face it, Arsenal are a bit different to Colchester. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pak mei 0 Posted August 16, 2009 I thin k we displayed yesterday again that we''re ok going forward but when the opposition gets a head of steam going we don''t have the ability to stop teams playing, a prerequisite at this level, so I don''t think it''ll happen again but it wasn''t a fluke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Allman 1 Posted August 16, 2009 With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 Not a fluke at all. It was a disaster waiting to happen as soon as Gunn put Otsemobor and Theoklitis on the teamsheet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Graham Humphrey"]The difference being, of course, that Moyes has consistently had Everton challenging the top six in the Premier League on relatively limited resources and has built an impressive squad considering, taking them to the FA Cup Final and Europe. And let''s face it, Arsenal are a bit different to Colchester.[/quote]Not that consistently - they were nearly relegated in 2004 - Everton''s lowest ever position in the PL - we would have sacked him! I know Moyes is a bit of a media darling but his record is not really that good - he even paid £8.6 million for Andy Johnson! Everton used to be regarded as one of "the big five," they get big crowds and plenty of TV money and play incredibly boring football - about even par I''d say! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Tim Allman"]With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but theimpression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper hadimpressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"]With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barclay Kid 0 Posted August 16, 2009 But Did You See Everton''s Defence?! It Was Worse Than Ours!! No Wonder They Conceeded 6!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"]With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. [/quote]I can your point but I don''t agree. It would have been a strange decision to play the loanee ahead of your first choice on th grounds that he might be nervous!As it happened, of course, you were right but I didn''t see many others saying so before the game. I thought that he had received positive reviews on the message board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Badger"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"] With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. [/quote]I can your point but I don''t agree. It would have been a strange decision to play the loanee ahead of your first choice on th grounds that he might be nervous!As it happened, of course, you were right but I didn''t see many others saying so before the game. I thought that he had received positive reviews on the message board. [/quote]He got positive reviews but they were in a few friendlies in front of mostly just a few thousand fans. His experience in front of large crowds and against strong opposition was extremely limited and I would guess that he had never played in front of 25,000 fans before and IMO the manager should have taken this into account. You are entitled to disagree, and it would be very boring indeed if we all agreed, but I really do think that it was a risky decision to rely on him, and even worse not to replace him at half-time. His confidence and that of the fans in him has now been all but totally destroyed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gentleman Jim 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Crox"]Arsenal 6 Everton 0 hmm this was on the openning day of the prem so maybe the colchester match was just a fluke beacause 6-0 arsenal seems a fluke aswell, everton are not a bad side they have some good players? so would people agree that maybe the two matches were just werid openning day flukes?[/quote]1-7 & 1-6 at any time of the season are unique scores, it''s almost certain that neither club will encounter such reversals again this season if ever.Gunny''s 1-7 reversal was probably linked with our woeful display on the last day of last season, in effect,discounting the pre-season games, they were two consecutive League matches and I feel that is how he was judged not on the Colchester match alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Gentleman Jim"][quote user="Crox"]Arsenal 6 Everton 0 hmm this was on the openning day of the prem so maybe the colchester match was just a fluke beacause 6-0 arsenal seems a fluke aswell, everton are not a bad side they have some good players? so would people agree that maybe the two matches were just werid openning day flukes?[/quote]1-7 & 1-6 at any time of the season are unique scores, it''s almost certain that neither club will encounter such reversals again this season if ever.Gunny''s 1-7 reversal was probably linked with our woeful display on the last day of last season, in effect,discounting the pre-season games, they were two consecutive League matches and I feel that is how he was judged not on the Colchester match alone. [/quote]Having seen the terrific performance of Darren Bent and Sunderland last night and having memories of how he demolished us in a friendly last season, I do hope that you are not tempting fate there !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gentleman Jim 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="paul moy"]Having seen the terrific performance of Darren Bent and Sunderland last night and having memories of how he demolished us in a friendly last season, I do hope that you are not tempting fate there !! [/quote]Good point Paul, I have been known to talk things up before, lets hope it puts the jinx on Everton and not us [:$] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Gentleman Jim"][quote user="paul moy"] Having seen the terrific performance of Darren Bent and Sunderland last night and having memories of how he demolished us in a friendly last season, I do hope that you are not tempting fate there !! [/quote]Good point Paul, I have been known to talk things up before, lets hope it puts the jinx on Everton and not us [:$] [/quote] I fear the worst with it being on Sky as well. [:$] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salopian 1 Posted August 16, 2009 Yes - I think that most of the team collapsed when the Us scored so many so quickly. I would like to think that, although Colchester have a good team, if we played them again at CR we would give them a run! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbo 131 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"] With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. [/quote] The 25000+ crowd excuse can be thrown straight out the window mate. Melbourne Victory have a capacity of around 56,000 and get attendances of 30,000+. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Gibbo"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"] With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. [/quote] The 25000+ crowd excuse can be thrown straight out the window mate. Melbourne Victory have a capacity of around 56,000 and get attendances of 30,000+.[/quote]Ooops !! That kills my theory on crowd size, so I''ll go for debut nerves due to playing at a higher level and also behind a totally crap defence. [:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbo 131 Posted August 16, 2009 Playing behind Capt''n Doc sounds like theory enough! :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Wal 314 Posted August 16, 2009 It''s so easy afterwards to think of reasons why things went wrong. Paul the 25000+ crowd theory might well have worked with about half of the team ..... the goalkeeper being one of the exceptions.Perhaps from his previous record we should realise that he is not going to become a crap goalkeeper overnight. Either he was bad before he came here, in which case why did he come here and on whose recomendation, or he simply had a nightmare match, which does happen to even the best.A change of sports and look at Graham Gooch''s first two scores for England .... 0 and 0, but that did not make him a poor batsman! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camuldonum 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Gibbo"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Tim Allman"] With the defence and keeper that was selected, the Colchester result was not a fluke. [/quote]This isn''t aimed at you because you may well have said so - but the impression that I got from reading the boards was that the Keeper had impressed in friendlies and that Otsemobor had a good game against Wigan.I don''t recall many don''t play the Aussie keeper threads.[/quote] Otsemobor has always been dodgy defensively, whereas Spillane had a very solid season with Luton. Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. Having now also seen him in a Norwich shirt, I think he is as good as many of our previous keepers, and it shows what a terrible decision it was to prefer Theoklitis to him, especially in our first home game of the season. I don''t think it was fair for Gunn to play him in that very crucial game and yet again it shows his poor management decision-making. [/quote] The 25000+ crowd excuse can be thrown straight out the window mate. Melbourne Victory have a capacity of around 56,000 and get attendances of 30,000+.[/quote]Ooops !! That kills my theory on crowd size, so I''ll go for debut nerves due to playing at a higher level and also behind a totally crap defence. [:D] [/quote]I have had the advantage of watching the Colchester video (marketed at £6 "at less than a pound a goal" which is true, aside from postage and packing).I''m going for the crap defence, myself. The first goal was a suicide back pass which would have instantly propelled Semmy into the International Taliban Suicide XI. I don''t think he looked to see where his keeper was. It was an awkward bounce which caught Theo out and who missed his punch which is of little matter really because had he connected with same it would have been a free kick to Colchester. His option was to try and head it away but hand contact would have been a free kick.Second goal was down to him. It was a spill and The Great Useless Lump had kept on running and picked it up. Happens.Two good strikes from distance I thought - the free kick your keeper got to but the power on it was too great to put over. Despite his apparently dodgy positioning I thought that was about okay to get the sight on the striker. If you can''t seeing the ball being hit you are ****** anyway.I thought Colchester only had three good goals. The free kick and the volley and the long throw in which all your lot ball watched which, aside from Semmy, I actually thought your worst conceded goal as it was telegraphed all the way.Anyway he is gone now. Onwards and upwards! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Wal 314 Posted August 16, 2009 Thanks for that Cam ..... a sensible reply about Theo at last. I think some posters on here were blaming him for all 8 goals! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camuldonum 0 Posted August 16, 2009 [quote user="Yellow Wall"]Thanks for that Cam ..... a sensible reply about Theo at last. I think some posters on here were blaming him for all 8 goals![/quote]If you lot want an example of dreadful goalkeeping I''d look at Marshall in the 1-4 away v Sheffield. He seems to have got away with that scot free (no pun intended).Look at the indecision. How much did he cost you?Of course Theoklitos was at fault but if you are in goal you sometimes wonder how the ball came to you in the first place. There are ten who are supposed to keep it away from you lest you **** up.[:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fair dinkum 0 Posted August 17, 2009 [quote user="paul moy"]Theoklitis has never played at this level and certainly not in front of 25,000 crowds, so nerves were probably an issue that should have been considered, whereas Ben Alnwick has the experience and has played consistently well at Championship level. [/quote]Many consider the standard of the A-league, and in particular Melbourne Victory, as at least League 1 standard. Over the last three seasons, Melbourne Victory''s home crowds have averaged over 25,000, and Theoklitos has played in front of more than 50,000. (Melbourne v Sydney 8 Dec 2006). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 271 Posted August 17, 2009 I suspect that without the self destruct back pass things would have been ok for Theo - he had made one very good claim towards the edge of the box. However that back pass and a momentary indecision affected his confident leading to him not dealing with the shot from lisbie as welll as he usually would. From that moment his, the team and the fans confidence in him had evaporated and it was career over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites