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BlyBlyBabes

In over 50 years I have seen nothing more disgraceful at NCFC...

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.... than the brutal way in which Bryan Gunn was treated. And just think how Butterworth, Crook, Deehan and the players - especially those he brought in must be feeling.

This is not the Norwich way Miss Smith. You must go now.

I was rather underwhelmed by the original appointment of Bryan Gunn. But once Team Gunn emerged with the addition of the other former Carrow Road stalwarts I thought why not give it a go and wish them good luck. The psychological mess and loan policy left by Roeder was always likely to lead to relegation, so when Gunn was confirmed as manager, allowed to do a little housecleaning, throw out the loans policy, bring in 12 new players etc I thought Team Gunn would be given a few months to prove themselves.

I suspect that stagefright, bad luck and panic fed on each other against Colchester and the the Yeovil result was more a true reflection of the quality of the team. Surely there were no clues in the pre-season build-up which would have predicted imminent catastrope, which supports this theory.

No. Panic took over after Colchester, and McNally and Bowker saw their main chance - and Smith acquiesced in the vain hope that they would rescue her from the pending firestorm.

Ken Brown is bemused. I am bemused, embarrassed and angry. No matter how hard or difficult things are this is just not the way to do things.

Fire Gunn by all means if that is the considered solution.

But not in this brutal and unfair manner. I mean, by what kind of judgement do you give a man (a team really) a new contract, allow him to restructure the squad, bring in 12 new players etc and then fire him (them? as they must be almost as culpable mustn''t they?) after a freak  1-7 followed by a good 4-0 against comparable opposition.

And still the majority will not admit that their Empress has no clothes!

All I will say in summary is that there are ways to do things - and brutality and public humiliation are NOT the way. And the buck stops at the top.

And that''s the way I see it.

Nuff said.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

 

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

.... than the brutal way in which Bryan Gunn was treated. And just think how Butterworth, Crook, Deehan and the players - especially those he brought in must be feeling.

This is not the Norwich way Miss Smith. You must go now.

I was rather underwhelmed by the original appointment of Bryan Gunn. But once Team Gunn emerged with the addition of the other former Carrow Road stalwarts I thought why not give it a go and wish them good luck. The psychological mess and loan policy left by Roeder was always likely to lead to relegation, so when Gunn was confirmed as manager, allowed to do a little housecleaning, throw out the loans policy, bring in 12 new players etc I thought Team Gunn would be given a few months to prove themselves.

I suspect that stagefright, bad luck and panic fed on each other against Colchester and the the Yeovil result was more a true reflection of the quality of the team. Surely there were no clues in the pre-season build-up which would have predicted imminent catastrope, which supports this theory.

No. Panic took over after Colchester, and McNally and Bowker saw their main chance - and Smith acquiesced in the vain hope that they would rescue her from the pending firestorm.

Ken Brown is bemused. I am bemused, embarrassed and angry. No matter how hard or difficult things are this is just not the way to do things.

Fire Gunn by all means if that is the considered solution.

But not in this brutal and unfair manner. I mean, by what kind of judgement do you give a man (a team really) a new contract, allow him to restructure the squad, bring in 12 new players etc and then fire him (them? as they must be almost as culpable mustn''t they?) after a freak  1-7 followed by a good 4-0 against comparable opposition.

And still the majority will not admit that their Empress has no clothes!

All I will say in summary is that there are ways to do things - and brutality and public humiliation are NOT the way. And the buck stops at the top.

And that''s the way I see it.

Nuff said.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote]

dont bother following norwich then gunn needed to go and its the best thing the boards done in ages

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My first game was 1965 and this is the lowest ebb. Whatever his failings as a manager he was still a human being, and to be treated like this is disgusting.

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So what, timing may have been a little odd - but the decision to sack Gunn certainly was not. Better sooner than later.And during Roeders reign we were NOT in the bottom 3.It''s a harsh world. I know. But Gunn was not up to the job and someone with some balls is at last at the helm.

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I agree with virtually everything you say, and I have supported them even a year or two longer. I feel sorry for Gunn, who I think did well in the circumstances. To be treated in that way while away with the team borders on the disgraceful.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

.... than the brutal way in which Bryan Gunn was treated. And just think how Butterworth, Crook, Deehan and the players - especially those he brought in must be feeling.

This is not the Norwich way Miss Smith. You must go now.

I was rather underwhelmed by the original appointment of Bryan Gunn. But once Team Gunn emerged with the addition of the other former Carrow Road stalwarts I thought why not give it a go and wish them good luck. The psychological mess and loan policy left by Roeder was always likely to lead to relegation, so when Gunn was confirmed as manager, allowed to do a little housecleaning, throw out the loans policy, bring in 12 new players etc I thought Team Gunn would be given a few months to prove themselves.

I suspect that stagefright, bad luck and panic fed on each other against Colchester and the the Yeovil result was more a true reflection of the quality of the team. Surely there were no clues in the pre-season build-up which would have predicted imminent catastrope, which supports this theory.

No. Panic took over after Colchester, and McNally and Bowker saw their main chance - and Smith acquiesced in the vain hope that they would rescue her from the pending firestorm.

Ken Brown is bemused. I am bemused, embarrassed and angry. No matter how hard or difficult things are this is just not the way to do things.

Fire Gunn by all means if that is the considered solution.

But not in this brutal and unfair manner. I mean, by what kind of judgement do you give a man (a team really) a new contract, allow him to restructure the squad, bring in 12 new players etc and then fire him (them? as they must be almost as culpable mustn''t they?) after a freak  1-7 followed by a good 4-0 against comparable opposition.

And still the majority will not admit that their Empress has no clothes!

All I will say in summary is that there are ways to do things - and brutality and public humiliation are NOT the way. And the buck stops at the top.

And that''s the way I see it.

Nuff said.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote]

Haven''t you already written this on another thread or two? Stop it now, this Empress new clothes thing you''re obviously really pleased with is embarassingly boring. Take the advice and save yourself.

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What a load of sentimental rubbish, he never should have applied in the first place as he was never up to the job. I would imagine he has recieved a lot of money during his time in charge also.He had to go and go immediately!Well done to McNally I say, christ people are never happy on here!

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I agree, I found - and still find - the incident extremely unsavoury.

I can honestly say that a part of what I used to feel regarding this club died when Gunn was sacked. I wasn''t pro-gunn, anti-delia or from any other sort of camp.

If I wanted to support a team of cutthroats who will grasp success at any cost I wouldn''t support Norwich in the first place.

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totally agree with all that was said gunny shoiuld have been given some games with the players he brought in and the board that sacked him werein place before most of the players were employed by the club , its bloody disgraceful way to treat gunny

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[quote user="canarywales"]totally agree with all that was said gunny shoiuld have been given some games with the players he brought in and the board that sacked him werein place before most of the players were employed by the club , its bloody disgraceful way to treat gunny[/quote]Yeah, all that success and just 2 years pay. Poor sod.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

.... than the brutal way in which Bryan Gunn was treated. And just think how Butterworth, Crook, Deehan and the players - especially those he brought in must be feeling.

This is not the Norwich way Miss Smith. You must go now.

I was rather underwhelmed by the original appointment of Bryan Gunn. But once Team Gunn emerged with the addition of the other former Carrow Road stalwarts I thought why not give it a go and wish them good luck. The psychological mess and loan policy left by Roeder was always likely to lead to relegation, so when Gunn was confirmed as manager, allowed to do a little housecleaning, throw out the loans policy, bring in 12 new players etc I thought Team Gunn would be given a few months to prove themselves.

I suspect that stagefright, bad luck and panic fed on each other against Colchester and the the Yeovil result was more a true reflection of the quality of the team. Surely there were no clues in the pre-season build-up which would have predicted imminent catastrope, which supports this theory.

No. Panic took over after Colchester, and McNally and Bowker saw their main chance - and Smith acquiesced in the vain hope that they would rescue her from the pending firestorm.

Ken Brown is bemused. I am bemused, embarrassed and angry. No matter how hard or difficult things are this is just not the way to do things.

Fire Gunn by all means if that is the considered solution.

But not in this brutal and unfair manner. I mean, by what kind of judgement do you give a man (a team really) a new contract, allow him to restructure the squad, bring in 12 new players etc and then fire him (them? as they must be almost as culpable mustn''t they?) after a freak  1-7 followed by a good 4-0 against comparable opposition.

And still the majority will not admit that their Empress has no clothes!

All I will say in summary is that there are ways to do things - and brutality and public humiliation are NOT the way. And the buck stops at the top.

And that''s the way I see it.

Nuff said.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote]

Agree totally!

Whatever anyone thought about Gunns credentials for the managers job to appoint him, let him sign a virtually new squad and then sack him 2 games into the season was ludicrous to say the least!

Yes the Colchester game was my most embarrassing NCFC ever it was very freaky and the team had rectifyed matters at Yeovil in the next game!

I was very unconvinced over whether Gunn was up to the job but I know after many years supporting the club that their is no guarantees with anyone and every manger makes baffling decisions. People kept harping on about experience but that was the reason we appointed Roeder and look what a useless plank he was!

After appointing Gunn the board should of given him until November at least to see if he could get the results we crave!

Apart from Gunn this club is in dire need of some stability and continuity which won''t happen when sacking a manager 2 games into the season!

All this from a club that claims to not have 2 pennies to rub together. Gunn will obviously be paid of, compensation will probably be paid to another club for our new manager who''ll no doubt not rate some of Gunns signings and will want his own players brought in!

This just reiterates the fact that our club will be better of without messrs Smith and Wynn Jones and possibly Foulger as well!

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This isn''t a rest home for former legends, it''s supposed to be an ambitious competitive football club. 

But if we''re talking public humiliation, the sacking of Nigel Worthington was far worse imo.

 

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[quote user="NCFC1"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

.... than the brutal way in which Bryan Gunn was treated. And just think how Butterworth, Crook, Deehan and the players - especially those he brought in must be feeling.

This is not the Norwich way Miss Smith. You must go now.

I was rather underwhelmed by the original appointment of Bryan Gunn. But once Team Gunn emerged with the addition of the other former Carrow Road stalwarts I thought why not give it a go and wish them good luck. The psychological mess and loan policy left by Roeder was always likely to lead to relegation, so when Gunn was confirmed as manager, allowed to do a little housecleaning, throw out the loans policy, bring in 12 new players etc I thought Team Gunn would be given a few months to prove themselves.

I suspect that stagefright, bad luck and panic fed on each other against Colchester and the the Yeovil result was more a true reflection of the quality of the team. Surely there were no clues in the pre-season build-up which would have predicted imminent catastrope, which supports this theory.

No. Panic took over after Colchester, and McNally and Bowker saw their main chance - and Smith acquiesced in the vain hope that they would rescue her from the pending firestorm.

Ken Brown is bemused. I am bemused, embarrassed and angry. No matter how hard or difficult things are this is just not the way to do things.

Fire Gunn by all means if that is the considered solution.

But not in this brutal and unfair manner. I mean, by what kind of judgement do you give a man (a team really) a new contract, allow him to restructure the squad, bring in 12 new players etc and then fire him (them? as they must be almost as culpable mustn''t they?) after a freak  1-7 followed by a good 4-0 against comparable opposition.

And still the majority will not admit that their Empress has no clothes!

All I will say in summary is that there are ways to do things - and brutality and public humiliation are NOT the way. And the buck stops at the top.

And that''s the way I see it.

Nuff said.

One love.

OTBC

 

 

 

[/quote] dont bother following norwich then gunn needed to go and its the best thing the boards done in ages[/quote]

 

But there are ways and then there are ''ways'' of doing things.

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

This isn''t a rest home for former legends, it''s supposed to be an ambitious competitive football club. 

But if we''re talking public humiliation, the sacking of Nigel Worthington was far worse imo.

 

[/quote]

Ambitious pah, I have more ambition in my little finger [:)]

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Leave out the freak 7 -1 defeat and it was a freak result, I think Gunn was bringing things together and for the first time in years we were showing signs of actually making progress, the sacking of Gunn in my eyes is yet another setback for the club, the way he was sacked was indeed disgraceful.

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[quote user="Billabong"]Leave out the freak 7 -1 defeat and it was a freak result, I think Gunn was bringing things together and for the first time in years we were showing signs of actually making progress, the sacking of Gunn in my eyes is yet another setback for the club, the way he was sacked was indeed disgraceful. [/quote]

Here Here, I was unconvinced about Gunn but things looked potentially promising!

Now back to square 1 with a new manager who won''t have a magic wand as noone has, who will want to reshape the squad and have to work with our majority shareholders who have a history of bad, nieve decision making and a reluctance in recent years to put some decent amounts of cash into the club!

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I have never been a Gunn fan HOWEVER the way he has been treated is unacceptable and really is not the way to treat anyone let alone a true city legend.Some of the posts here are ridiculous. Of course we all know that as a football manager you can be sacked at any stage however a significant number and indeed our majority shareholders put Gunn there ONLY ONE LEAGUE match ago. They have clearly changed their minds or been pursuaded to change them what does that say about their judgement!I just hope this isnt a job for one of his former associates by our new member of the Board Mr McNally That would really stink

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I don''t understand. Everyone on here is saying categorically it''s McNally and the others'' call to fire Gunn, an Delia wanted him to stay.

But you''re saying it''s Delia''s fault.

Who''s right here?

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I read the first paragraph of the original post and I''m bored already. Get over it. If managers aren''t good enough, they get sacked. Gunn was nowhere near good enough and he got sacked.Right decision. That''s just the way it is.

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Excellent post Bly.

I agree that Gunn was probably a bad choice to begin with, but yes he was the manager and had been given money to get in 12 players. So why sack him after one, admittidley very bad, result?  There were many factors contributing to that result apart from Gunny like you said.

So agreed, he was treated very badly and should definitely have been given more of a chance, otherwise why back him with the cash?!

Indeed the clubs lowest moment to date, let''s hope it has bottomed out.

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

This isn''t a rest home for former legends, it''s supposed to be an ambitious competitive football club. 

But if we''re talking public humiliation, the sacking of Nigel Worthington was far worse imo.

 

[/quote]Leaving aside the question of Worthington''s sacking, the method, timing and location of Gunn''s dismissal were nothing short of brutal.No, I wouldn''t hasve appointed Gunn in the first place and to hastily confirm his re-appointment before the St Andrew''s Hall meeting was crass stupidity but I genuinely thought that we had hired more professional management and that we had seen the last of over-hasty, amateurish decision making.If the decision to dismiss needed to be made for whatever reason, so be it, but in the absence of malicious or criminal action NOBODY deserves to be dismissed in the way Gunn was.Never mind the effect on the players and other employees and officials, how would you like to be bussed to a meeting hundreds of miles from home, be pulled out from doing your job, told you were instantly dismissed and left to find your way home by public transport? I''m sorry, those are not the actions of an ''ambitious, competitive'' representative of a football club but those of a bully or a coward exulting in the power thay have acquired (or desperate to act before other Directors changed their minds?). I sincerely hope this was an aberration because I shall be desperately unhappy if this crude management ''hire and fire'' style is repeated. Oh, and the other problem is that management by fear does not actually work- that is why it largely died out in the seventies.Before anybody questions my credentials, I have spent 35+ years advising Boards and Managers on how to deal properly with difficult performance problems under numerous cultures and legislative frameworks from the Netherlands to Singapore and have probably fired or helped to fire several hundred people including a Witch Doctor! I am not proud of this but I do take pride in saying that every dismissal was handled properly and sensitively while allowing the recipient to retain his or her dignity. I was a huge supporter of McNally''s appointment, I desperately want him and the new regime to succeed, with DS and MWJ taking a back seat or disappearing but there is simply NO excuse for not doing these things properly.

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......the most disgraceful scene I''ve ever seen at Carrow road was two Saturdays ago. Beaten by six goals in the lowest leagues for 50 years.

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Agreed Yelverton Yella. Even though he wasn''t up to the job he still should have been treated with respect. As a loyal club servant for many years he at least deserved to be dismissed properly.

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Like you, Bly, I feel very sorry for Gunny.    I still hope that our new man can turn it round and get us promotion - and if he does, since he''ll be doing it with Gunny''s squad, we may come to feel differently about Gunn''s tenure as manager, and come to thank Gunny for having laid the foundations of our recovery.    Wishful thinking, perhaps.

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[quote user="Scottlarock"]......the most disgraceful scene I''ve ever seen at Carrow road was two Saturdays ago. Beaten by six goals in the lowest leagues for 50 years.

[/quote]

And what has that got to do with the brutal and counterproductive way in which Gunn was fired?

OTBC

P.S. And when did we last win 4-0 away at a club in the same league?

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I agree.  This was no way for Gunny to be treated.  I still find it bizarre that he''s allowed to sign 13 players, and get the boot 1 league game later.  Joke.

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[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

[quote user="Scottlarock"]......the most disgraceful scene I''ve ever seen at Carrow road was two Saturdays ago. Beaten by six goals in the lowest leagues for 50 years.

[/quote]

And what has that got to do with the brutal and counterproductive way in which Gunn was fired?

OTBC

P.S. And when did we last win 4-0 away at a club in the same league?

[/quote]

You may be right from the moral point of view, the way it was done and the timing. But many think Norwich has been missing the mean streak that it often takes to be successful. Maybe this is exactly the decisive method of running the club that we very much need.

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[quote user="Yelverton Yella"][quote user="canary cherub "]

This isn''t a rest home for former legends, it''s supposed to be an ambitious competitive football club. 

But if we''re talking public humiliation, the sacking of Nigel Worthington was far worse imo.

 

[/quote]Leaving aside the question of Worthington''s sacking, the method, timing and location of Gunn''s dismissal were nothing short of brutal.

No, I wouldn''t hasve appointed Gunn in the first place and to hastily confirm his re-appointment before the St Andrew''s Hall meeting was crass stupidity but I genuinely thought that we had hired more professional management and that we had seen the last of over-hasty, amateurish decision making.

If the decision to dismiss needed to be made for whatever reason, so be it, but in the absence of malicious or criminal action NOBODY deserves to be dismissed in the way Gunn was.

Never mind the effect on the players and other employees and officials, how would you like to be bussed to a meeting hundreds of miles from home, be pulled out from doing your job, told you were instantly dismissed and left to find your way home by public transport? I''m sorry, those are not the actions of an ''ambitious, competitive'' representative of a football club but those of a bully or a coward exulting in the power thay have acquired (or desperate to act before other Directors changed their minds?). I sincerely hope this was an aberration because I shall be desperately unhappy if this crude management ''hire and fire'' style is repeated.

Oh, and the other problem is that management by fear does not actually work- that is why it largely died out in the seventies.

Before anybody questions my credentials, I have spent 35+ years advising Boards and Managers on how to deal properly with difficult performance problems under numerous cultures and legislative frameworks from the Netherlands to Singapore and have probably fired or helped to fire several hundred people including a Witch Doctor! I am not proud of this but I do take pride in saying that every dismissal was handled properly and sensitively while allowing the recipient to retain his or her dignity.

I was a huge supporter of McNally''s appointment, I desperately want him and the new regime to succeed, with DS and MWJ taking a back seat or disappearing but there is simply NO excuse for not doing these things properly.

[/quote]

Exactly so Yelverton. Well put.

OTBC

 

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

[quote user="Scottlarock"]......the most disgraceful scene I''ve ever seen at Carrow road was two Saturdays ago. Beaten by six goals in the lowest leagues for 50 years.

[/quote]

And what has that got to do with the brutal and counterproductive way in which Gunn was fired?

OTBC

P.S. And when did we last win 4-0 away at a club in the same league?

[/quote]

You may be right from the moral point of view, the way it was done and the timing. But many think Norwich has been missing the mean streak that it often takes to be successful. Maybe this is exactly the decisive method of running the club that we very much need.

[/quote]

The way in which it was done was stupid from every point of view.

To be decisive one does not have to be brutal, and, frankly nasty. Those are the characteristics of a bully.

Read Yelverton above.

OTBC

 

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