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Tumbleweed

Time for Bentley to start delivering

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As per usual any one who posts an opinion other than "we are the greatest" gets hammered from certain quarters as being moaners.

Tumbleweeds original post asked a number of questions -

  1. Is Bentley truly effective, or does he give away the ball too often?
  2. Is Bentley more effective than McVeigh or Mullers?
  3. If Jonson and Helveg can be dropped for being less than fully effective then why not Bentley?
  4. Is NW obliged to play Bentley a minimum number of times?

All of the above are valid questions.

To some people the answers are - 

  1. He is not effective as he could be because he does give away the ball on "miracle" passes too often, and he does get caught in possession too often 
  2. Both McVeigh and Mullers have an equal ability to turn a game, ipso facto Bentley is not more effective
  3. There is no reason why NW could not put Bentley on the bench
  4. Unless of course NW is obliged to play him if fit - Viduka had a "must play if fit" contract at Leeds.

It is a sorry day if questions cannot be asked and if people cannot hold different, views which they want to express, without being labelled as "moaners".

On the question of different views - was Safri really that good on Sunday or did he actually give away the ball on a too regular basis for a "play maker", thus immediately putting us back under pressure?

 Having watched the match again I would suggest that Mullers could do a better job if he was ever allowed to play at the base of the diamond. 

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The real question is can City afford to play him from the off for almost 90 minutes every game for a few moments of brilliance? His distribution seems poor. From what I saw of the Spurs highlights there were a number of times where he went on runs as the defense began to open up only to squander possession. Now that is a waste.

Would you get the same out of the alternatives - McVeigh, Jonson, Mulryne, Henderson (even)? If the answer is yes, then leave him in there but I''d agree with some posters who thinks he should earn his place in the side even if that means you have to put him on the bench after a poor game.

McVeigh must be thinking what must he have to do to get a start, same with McKenzie.

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In my opinion Bentley has been a definite asset to the team this season, but like all of us, he can be criticised if his performances are not to up to scratch.

He was poor (by his standards) on Sunday. I personally felt that he let the Tottenham crowd get to him, and this is possibly down to his age/experience.

However, I do not agree that he needs to calm down and make simple passes, etc. I feel that that he thinks too quickly for his team mates and makes passes/runs which certain players, aside from Hux, do not see or latch on to. This is not Bentley''s problem, it is more to do the with the "first division" thinking which applies to Holt, Safri, etc. In time, these players will adapt to his play which will help the team.

Bentley''s corner against Palace and his shot against Man Utd were both exceptional.What other player at the club could have done this except Hux? Yes, his Newcastle goal was helped by Given, but at least he had the vision and confidence to shoot, and it got us back in the game.

I still believe he was the best "buy" of the summer, and I am confident that this will be proven throughout the season.

 

 

 

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Everyone will have their own opinion over what is the best XL and who at the club is underrated and who is over-rated.
Having not missed a minute yet this season - unlike someone a few rows in front of me who was taken out the back of White Hart Lane for a ''seeing to'' by a steward - I happen to agree with much of the original post and based on performances to date would not select Bentley. Obviously from the responses so far opinion is divided.
That doesn''t mean I would boo him at a match. Yes, he has made some some good moments and I would like to see more and frankly I don''t care if he''s a loanee or permanent as long as he contributes to the team getting enough points to stay in the premier league (and more...).
I don''t however think Mulryne is better than Bentley (except maybe at passing back).
For what its worth I think Brennan and Mckenzie should start instead of Bentley and Doherty.

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hahahahaha touched a nerve I see...

I bet Hendo is pleased Bentley is here; it means he doesn''t have to suffer all the ''constructive criticism'' the pinkun faithful have to offer.

Ok all you wanna be Neil Warnocks, I''m all for discussion, alternative perspectives and well-rounded arguments, but if you''re having a moan, you''re having a moan. There ain''t no hiding from it.

Lighten up Pinkun fans, this board is getting heavy...

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[quote]Everyone will have their own opinion over what is the best XL and who at the club is underrated and who is over-rated. Having not missed a minute yet this season - unlike someone a few rows in front o...[/quote]

Nice one Bayern! Going to have a go at Tuffnel P C with personal remarks now then? At no point have I pointed the finger at anyone personally on this board. I was merely stating an opinion (as is everyone else) about having a go at a young lad still learning his trade. The same thing which has happened with Hendo in fact, which put him back a helluva lot, especially at the point in time when he wasn''t playing well he had a lot of personal problems.

Now going back to the original point of the discussion. He is young, things will go astray, he is not on the same wavelength as the other players, but I think this is more to do with the fact that he has a very quick footballing brain, and has seen a situation which the other players haven''t, but they will learn from him and he will learn from them. So he has made mistakes, as has most of the other players, and particularly Holt and Drury which have cost us goals, perhaps they should be rested or not played as well?

I''m not saying that he should be played all the time, all I am saying is that (in the limited time I have seen him play compared to you) he is no worse than the players on the sidelines waiting their chance and I would prefer a player on the field who could turn the game with a moment of magic than someone who just plods on doing what is expected.

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Aw, come on TPC.

I have defended Svensson to the hilt because he has proved (to me) that he can do it - last season. And he''s only had one and half matches to prove himself.

I will also defend Helveg and Jonsson because they only got two matches and that''s not a fair crack of the whip either.

But with Bentley, he''s played four games and showed nothing but his ability to cut in from the left and shoot from 30 yards. This is all very well, but they don''t go in that often.

When he shows glimpses of the ability to dig in, to select the correct pass, and to move the ball crisply and sharply to unlock a defence, I''ll be in the queue to see him back in the first team.

As for Hendo, I love that kid! He just went off the boil a bit.

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[quote]Everyone will have their own opinion over what is the best XL and who at the club is underrated and who is over-rated. Having not missed a minute yet this season - unlike someone a few rows in front o...[/quote]

bayern eunuch

you are talking out of your arse mate, this post was originally about bentley, but if you choose to be personal, so will i

i have seen every home game (and those televised on tv away) - and i think bentley is a great prospect, and hasn''t done much wrong so far.... obviously we should all bow to your superior knowledge i suppose, as you have seen every single second, you MUST be right

 

we are not all as fortunate as you to be able to attend every game - i doubt if everyone who has stated their opinion of bentley, or anything else, has either

so keep to the facts you know about and don''t get personal, it doesn''t help anyone and only weakens your case

of course you will now respond that as a female i know nothing about football, it''s par for the course

 

but at least i am now a forum guru 

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Fairplay Bananaman, your opinions are well constructed and worthy of respect (as are all on the site).

However, I just want this talented youngster to have the time to prove himself - if we can give Svensson a chance, surely we can give Bentley the same!

He''ll come good and have the moaners/constructive critics (I''ll leave people to choose their own label this time) proved too early in their judgments.

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Spot on there TPC, he deserves the chance to turn his potential into telling contributions to our play.

My concern, and a fair few others who have contributed to this thread, is how many games constitute a chance? Sven had one and a half and, according to the idiots that sit around me in the South Stand, he''s now completely useless.

Helveg, you guessed it, he''s useless too and he only got one game!

The issue is when blooding a youngster becomes a threat to our results. And, in my opinion, it is already an issue. Every time we give the ball away it takes an opportunity from us and hands it to our opposition. It will, and arguably already has, cost us.

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I see we have moaners and barrackers in the Barclay who have now been joined by idiots in the South Stand

Dear God, that leaves the River End and Main Stand as our main areas of support

I am leaving out the Snake Pit because they are far too loud in expressing their opinions of both ours and the opposing players

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Its a sad day when we can''t ask legitimate questions.

My view is that whoever plays has to be better than who is left on the bench.

The question here is not whether Bentley is good or bad or that we are getting on his back. Its a debate over whether he should have his place over others and whether "reputation" and the association with Arsenal has deceived us or not.

Some came on to this thread and want to stifle debate, but some of the contributions have been extremely interesting. At the end of the day we all have our opinions on who plays and who does not.

I will be interested to see how Nigel treats David and whether he will be as ruthless as he has been already this season with others. The lad has fantastic potential and some nice touches but we must not harm the team''s interests in order to train up someone else''s talent.

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Oh Dear, oh dear....oh well, might as well be hung as a sheep as a lamb

Firstly, my comments were not intended to be personal (but they can be taken that way now if it suits). In hindsight I can see how they could be perceived as patronising or pompous but that wasn''t my intention at the time. My comments regarding not missing a minute was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that I noticed one of throng being taken aside for a chat at White Hart Lane while I continued to watch the game. Furthermore, to put into context, why I felt I my opinion regarding Bentley was ''equally'' (not better) qualified.

Ironically, the target of my quip was not TPC, unless he happened to wearing the shirt belonging to another with whom I have dared to differ in opinion.

Quite how this merited the vitriolic response from GTG is beyond me. However having seen her ''wade in'' with such eloquent prose on other threads, perhaps I shouldn''t be surprised. The relevance of your gender also perplexed me. I''d be more concerned about that chip on your shoulder, MATE.

As for DB, I doubt whether he''ll lose any sleep or be to traumatised by comments on this message board. I am not a boo-boy at matches and never have been. I wish him well. As far as I''m concerned, anyone can pass a ball into space or off the pitch. The pass that finds a team-mate would be more incisive to me.

Now I''ll get me coat and refarin from indulging this thread any further (regardless of any subsequent responses).

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[quote]Spot on there TPC, he deserves the chance to turn his potential into telling contributions to our play. My concern, and a fair few others who have contributed to this thread, is how many games consti...[/quote]

As I believe this is an important issue, can I just restate, that young Mr Bentley is NOT and never will be a City player!.

Therefore I would rather we concentrated on OUR own players. Svenny, Hendo and Jarvis, should all be ''brought on'' full steam ahead, because make no mistakes about it, at the end of the day, whether he performs well or not, at the end of the season Mr Bentley merrily skips off back to Arsenal.

I''ve always thought this was a bad deal, Arsenal gain far more out of it then we do. And I also believe we have at this moment in time, as good as, if not better players than him, already at the club.

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1st wiz - thats like saying we should not have played crouch, hux or harper last season because they were not our players and at no stage were all three going to be future city signings.

Like the loans of hux and crouch Worthy brought in Bentley beleiving he could bring some significant quality to the club that is not currently here. With HUx & co he could be a bit more confident that he was getting proven quality - with Bentley, due to his age, the risk was slightly bigger. However you dont get to be an Arsenal pro without having some outstanding ability - he is up against the likes of clichy, fabregas, aliadiere and is talked of just as highly.

Like 1st I have always challenged why we should bring Bentley in when Jarvis is just as highly rated and could also do with thattime on the pitch. However shooting Bentley down in flames now does us no favours
- we have hime for the season like it or not.

Bentley has taken time to settle in and does need to start to prove his worth. But the same applies to all our signings with the exception of Charlton. At 19 he will not be able to play all season and what I have been advocating is appropriate use of resting and reintroduction will do him and the team much good.

Bentley can be a player who excites us as much as Hux does - his inexperience means we just havenet seen it yet.

OTBC

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[quote]Oh Dear, oh dear....oh well, might as well be hung as a sheep as a lamb Firstly, my comments were not intended to be personal (but they can be taken that way now if it suits). In hindsight I can see ...[/quote]

bayern eunuch

you were not referring to TPC as i recall, but to Meeky who you were having a go at because he was one of a few who dared to challenge the majority verdict on this thread

He knew you were having a go at him too, i see no response from TPC so perhaps he thought he was safe too!  You seem to be one of these people who are always right just because they have been to every game in the last hundred years.  Would the rest of us be so fortunate! 

The relevance of my name has nothing to do with this thread, but for your information it is to do with when my son used to play football - nothing to do with anything else, i take it your name doesn''t refer to you (it would if i ever caught up with you)

The reason Meeky and a friend''s son were spoken to by stewards, was that they shouted the referee''s a ****er (sorry peter), if you can honestly say you have never chanted this, you must be a lump of concrete! 

I am not going to change my style for you ''mate'' - why should i?  If i have something to say, i say it, don''t need fancy words, this board is for everyone, you don''t have to have a degree to watch football - yet. 

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[quote]1st Wiz - Bentley plays for Norwich albeit only on loan. Therefore for the time being at least, he is a Norwich player.[/quote]

Tufnell PC: you miss my point, badly put I agree, But I''m concerned that Bentley is preferred choice ahead of OUR lads, because (a) He''s an Arsenal player, so he must be good and (b) Worthy may not have a choice, due may be to some contract clause.

Zipper: I always thought that we had a realistic chance of getting Hucks and Crouch on a permanent basis, that''s not the case with Bentley, the price would be well out of City''s range.

Gazza: Go girl go!. give em'' hell I say, and hold your ground, well done my friend!.

Now can someone explain to me apart from the old cover excuse, just why did Worthy drop a proven goalscorer?, ie Leon!.

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Wiz, I agree and disagree with what you''ve said.

I agree that Bentley is and always will be an Arsenal player. We won''t get him when his loan is up at the end of the season.

I disagree that home talent should have higher priority than him.

However, I will temper my disagreement with the following comment. Worthy has got to pick the best eleven that he has available for a particular match for the given tactics that he wants to go out and play with. If that means Bentley is in ahead of Henderson, Jarvis or Svensson then that''s what he should do. However, I do think he needs to be fair to his homegrown talent when their performances are over and above what Bentley is currently giving you. Both Jarvis and Henderson have been putting in meritable performances in the reserves, whilst the jury is still out on Bentley''s contribution to the first team. If it means Bentley sits one out then Worthy should be brave enough to make that decision.

Time will tell - maybe come the end of the season we''ll see Bentley was in all matches that he was fit for (because his loan contract said he had to be!).

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[quote]As I believe this is an important issue, can I just restate, that young Mr Bentley is NOT and never will be a City player!. Therefore I would rather we concentrated on OUR own players. Sven...[/quote]

i`m with you on this one wiz.

i said when he first came that everyone was looking through green and yellow specks, with all the hype he was getting.

 

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So what did everyone think of Bentley''s performance against Villa today?I find him an infuriating player. One minute he is giving the ball away left, right and centre. Then the next minute he puts a couple of great shots just past the post. His nickname should be Mr Inconsistent.For me McVeigh looked much better than Bentley when he came on. Time for Bentley to start delivering or join the reserves.

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Master Bentley is our best balanced attacker - seven shots today, none on target, seven off target. Glory hunting I think they call it!

Gazza - a ''forum guru'' - is our best balanced contributor. Seems from the evidence above & from elsewhere on this forum that she has a chip on both shoulders.

Gazza, mate, just what is it that constitutes fancy words? Is it those used when you are losing the argument, or what?

OTBC  

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Could it be that the balance of opinion is swinging round to that Bentley is not Berkamp reincarnate?  I have evn noticed parts of the media questionong his contribution to the team, rather than to the possibility of enhancing his own ego.

Bentley was, and is, a good signing for us. However, he does need to appreciate that the simple ball, the simple pass, or even simply passing to a team mate is very often the best option.

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I know he is young an has talent seen in flashes on the pitch probally more on the training ground, I feel he certainly isn''t the talent he is hyped up to be.... yet Sky rated him as top canary..certainly not for me he wasn''t

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I agree that Fatman Fat.  Bentley will be good for us through the season but he is still very raw.  Once he learns to chose the right option he could be special.  At the moment his option selection is poor and that is costing us as a team.  We cant afford to let that continue through the season.

Sky top canary?!? - well by shot count may be but Flem was superb and McVeigh showed him what a team player is. 

 

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The tw*t in the sunday express said that ''the only time the Canaries looked a little chirpy was when Bentley had the ball and the fact that he is on loan from Arsenal says it all''  There you are, we all know now!!

OTBC

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I think that Mr Bentley suffers from the same problem as Quaresma, a Portugese wunderkid who was playing here at Barca last season.  Bags of talent, fabulous touch combined with a total inability to recognise that you are playing in a team.  It was the same old story yesterday against Villa, every time he got the ball he wanted to score.  Of course this in itself is not a bad thing but the problem was that he wanted to do it on his own without his team.  I reckon a large part of this is down to his age, Quaresma was the same age last year as Bentley and he didn''t make it through the season because of this selfishness.  He was starting every game at the beginning of the season and got dropped more and more as the season progressed until in the end he was sold back to Portugal.  When you''re that young and the media is hyping you up that much inevitably it''s going to give you an ego and you are going to try and feed that ego by doing amazing things on the pitch.  Unfortunately this is usually going to be to the detriment of the team''s performance.

Worthy needs to let him know that he is playing in a team and he certainly should not be above being dropped if he doesn''t start doing this.  It''s great to have a creative player in a team which feels a bit lacking in creativity but it''s useless if that player ignores the men around him.

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[quote]Master Bentley is our best balanced attacker - seven shots today, none on target, seven off target. Glory hunting I think they call it! Gazza - a ''forum guru'' - is our best balanced contributor. Seem...[/quote]

Bly Bly Babes :-A posse of forum gnus has been despatched from Squares to hunt you down and tar and feather you.

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He is a good player and I think he wants to do well for city - but he has to start involving the players around him.

On more than one occasion Saturday he had Hucks to his right and The Doc to his left and he still took the shot - I don''t mind him having a dig but it seemed that everytime he was within 25 - 30 yards passing was not an option to him.

If he continues being so selfish he hasn''t got a hope getting in the Arsenal line-up when he goes back.

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Zipper says it all: "Once he learns to chose the right option he could be special.  At the moment his option selection is poor and that is costing us as a team".

On Saturday it was hugely frustrating- why play in the hole behind the front two if whenever you get into a good position you send the ball spiralling over the bar or wide- it must have happened half a dozen times.

I could also see the body language of the others- there they were running to get into good positions, David lets fly with another 25 yarder, and their shoulders droop with disappointment.

Nigel needs to take care that the desire to see Bentley do well does not antagonise the others- I saw nothing on Saturday which Paul McVeigh could not do.

Bentley is what Mulryne was- mercurial. Flashes of inspiration but hugely inconsistent. Needs time, but maybe time we as a team don''t have before we need consistent end product.

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