Time for Bentley to start delivering

[Tumbleweed 106]

So we have a highly rated product of the Arsenal youth system on loan, the next Dennis Bergkamp apparently.

Now the lad has produced a few nice touches and had that near wonder shot at Old Trafford. But I am afraid that I just do not see what all the publicity and fuss is about.

Yesterday he showed no understanding whatsoever with Doherty and Hux, balls kept going astray and far too ofetn he was in good positions and could not deliver the final pass.  On the positive side he harried OK and closed down reasonably well.

However I do not believe on current evidence that he is any better than either Paul McVeigh (who did score at Old Trafford) or good old Mullers who at least can deliver a telling pass.

In the first half he was just invisible behind the front two. It got a bit better in teh second half but teh team collectively upped their game.

Some will say that it will take time. Time we do not have until we need to pick up some chunky points. And time has not been afforded to any of Svensson, Jonson or Helveg.

So Nigel can make diffficult decisions, I just wonder if we are obliged to play him a minimum number of times under the Loan Agreement.

Now I''ll get my tin hat for all the flack to bounce off.............

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

Perhaps it didn''t happen and I am just dreaming (obviously you never saw it) but I could swear that I saw Bentley pick the ball up just inside the opposition half at Newcastle and then proceed to beat three players before scoring with a 25 yard shot to start the fightback which got us an excellent point.

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

We know Bentley is a young, inexperienced player who has a lot of potential. It''s a steep learning curve in the Premiership for all players new to it. Even steeper if you''ve not even played ten first team games in your entire career.

Personally, I think his first touch and control is excellent. When the ball is at his feet he can retain possession all day. It''s when he moves the ball on that he lets himself down, giving the ball away far too cheaply. He needs to simplify his passing. Pass and move, pass and move. Then try the flashy through ball when there is the opportunity, not when we have been defending for the last ten minutes.

We are going to have to forgive Bentley his silly mistakes if we want to see him reach his potential with Norwich this season. Like the goal at Newcastle, the near miss at Old Trafford etc. He won''t improve in the reserves, so if he''s not in the first team we may a well not have him at all. I think he can have a huge impact here. But he''s in a team that''s been changing every week, so we must be patient.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Tumbleweed, you are not far wrong. Sure Bentley has potential, but that''s what it is - potential. When he is more experienced he will start to play the percentage ball rather than an attempted miracle ball. Far too many times yesterday both Bentley and Safri gave away possession when a simpler ball would have kept us in control.

[FatMan Fat 0]

Tumbleweed, you are not far wrong. Sure Bentley has potential, but that''s what it is - potential. When he is more experienced he will start to play the percentage ball rather than an attempted miracle ball. Far too many times yesterday both Bentley and Safri gave away possession when a simpler ball would have kept us in control.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]So we have a highly rated product of the Arsenal youth system on loan, the next Dennis Bergkamp apparently. Now the lad has produced a few nice touches and had that near wonder shot at Old Trafford. ...[/quote]

Its about bloody time someone had the guts to say this Tumbleweed!. I thought the same as you, but I could''nt be bothered with the ''flak'' I think you may get for saying it.

Yes, he IS overated, there were several times against Spurs yesterday (and this is not the first game he done it) when Hucks got himself into good positions, only for Bently to miss pass to some other player, and not always to a player in a green shirt!. It takes more than flashy white boots to cut it with me. A quicker footballing brain would be better!.

One mazy run at Newcastle is not enough in my book, he''s no better than anyone we already have at the club, and should be rested.

I applaud your nerve in speaking out Tumbleweed. Well said my friend.

[Tufnell Park Canary 0]

Once again the norwich city moaners are at it again. C''mon, would you really play McVeigh or Mullers in place of Bentley? Yes he needs to play simple passes sometimes, but his quality is undeniable and whenever he gets the ball we look more dangerous.Also, he is very young and he should not be expected to perform like the more senior arsenal stars.We have made a decent start to the prem season and all some people want to do is moan. Shocking.Just wait - by the end of the season Bentley (and the rest of the team) will have done enough to keep us up. Even then, you''ll probably find something to moan about no doubt

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Once again the norwich city moaners are at it again. C''mon, would you really play McVeigh or Mullers in place of Bentley? Yes he needs to play simple passes sometimes, but his quality is undeniable an...[/quote]

Tufnell Park Canary: So we be patient, yes?. We ''bring him on'' till the end of the season, yes?. Then what?.

He b****rs off back to Arsenal, thats what!.

I would pick a ''real'' City player anytime above him, even if it is McVeigh or Mullers. 

End of moan.

[Tufnell Park Canary 0]

I understand your concerns 1st wizard, but Bentley looks proud to wear a city shirt and that makes him a ''real city player'' in my eyes.

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

First I think we have to define moaning.

A constructive viewpoint ISN''T moaning.

Good!!

Nigel has been pretty brave with most of his team decisions this year attempting to put the best team out appropriate to the opposition and resources available.

He''s dropped the scandinavians, he''s played short defenders and played a temporary forward. Brave - and appropriate decisions that have come off. And he''s persisted with the unproven Bentley.

I agree with most on this post - not as extreme as The Wizard - that Bentley shouldn''t be an automatic choice as it appears. He should be the appropriate choice. And at the moment, I don''t think he is totally appropriate. His passing success ratio is low and we can''t afford it.

He''s ambititious, has tremendous self belief and has great potential. But he''s here to learn - he''s not the finished article.

He''ll gain just as much if he''s dropped and has to fight back for his place.

[chipster 0]

we do need to hang on to the ball a hell of a lot better, and we did look a lot more dangerous when we where closing a lot higher up the pitch, but as for bentey giving the ball away cheaply i didn''t see he was any where near as bad as some, at least he was trying to play incisive balls and he will click sooner rather than latter, his touch and ball carrying ability are of a very high standard and his choice of pass will improve with experience, i for one cannot wait to see him blossom with us!

[Bayern Eunuch 0]

I thought after the Man Utd game that all Bentley had in common with Dennis Bergkamp was his propensity to pass to a red shirt As for the Newcastle goal I think Shay Given merits a key contribution to that one.Problem is that he''s expecting his colleagues to be on the same wavelength ashis Arsenal teammates and everyone to have the pace of Henry.Having said that, I think he''s a better option than McVeigh or Mulryne and I think he''s worth persevering with.

[Robbo007 0]

I think Bentley is surprised at how different it is playing for arsenal compared to Norwich. He is beginning to realise a few fancy touches now and again won''t bring much to the cause. I thik after a bit of an ear-bashing from Huckerby he played better. Will definitly be an asset to us though

[bananaman 0]

Nah, Tumbleweed and the Wizard are quite right. Bentley was the worst player on the pitch yesterday, and had more success in breaking down our attacks than any of the tottenham defence had. Because he looks comfortable on the ball, people seem to get confused that he is actually contributing to our attacks.

McVeigh can defend and attack, and until Bentley can pass to one of his teammates he needs to be .... rested.

As for his 25 yarder against Newcastle, if Given hadn''t fumbled it then it would have been another wild attempt on goal when there was a much better pass available.

So far I''ve seen him -

Cut in and shoot from 25 yards and hit the bar.
Cut in and shoot from 25 yards and score through the keepers error.
Give the ball away.

We need results now, and any player who is below the required standard needs to shape up, or make way for another member of our squad.

[KeelansGlove 0]

I have to agree (as I have said before) He does have a tendancy to go for the showboat rather than playing it simple and therefore loses the ball more than he should and also creates little end product. Think he could do with a word from Worthy, needs to be more of a team player otherwise Mcveigh or Jonson would be a better option.

[Meeky 0]

[quote]So we have a highly rated product of the Arsenal youth system on loan, the next Dennis Bergkamp apparently. Now the lad has produced a few nice touches and had that near wonder shot at Old Trafford. ...[/quote]

Yippee!!!

This is just what I like to see on message boards!!

So! Hendersons not playing so who shall we moan about? I know let''s moan about the other youngster on the pitch! Let''s moan about a bright prospect who has been loaned to us, by far and away the best team in he Premiership and who there manager said "would only go to a club who played football the right way". The guy is young and passes do go astray, but I suggest you look at a video of the match and analyse some of the incisive passes that he made, which weren''t completed either because a defender got a lucky foot in, or our players weren''t on his wavelength.

Oh and by the way, why don''t you boo his name on Saturday when it''s read out before the Villa game.

[NavMan 0]

I hear what you are saying Meeky but the guy still needs to shape up.  We cant afford to help Arsenal by blooding the youngster for them during this season if he is not going to come up with the goods.  Must admit I was surprised when we got him mainly because of the plaudits I had heard but must admit up until now have not been that overly impressed.  Yes I know he hit the bar against Man U but needs to contribute on a more regular basis than one flash in the pan stroke of cleverness.  

[Meeky 0]

"one flash in the pan stroke of cleverness. "

The lad has played four games with his current team mates, I would suggest you watch the game again and have a look at some of the situations which he helped create, and with a bit of good fortune would have resulted in a goal or goal scoring opportunity, and if one of them had come off we you would all be singing his praises. Sure he''s young and inexperienced and not all he does comes off, but let''s not get on his back eh?

At least he can control the ball, run with it, try the incisive pass and is not afraid to have a shot. How many of the other midfielders can or will do that? If we''re going to have a go about his distribution then let''s have a go at Holt and Safri as well, who in the first half yesterday were pretty diabolical.

[nycanary 1]

I''m content with Bentley''s performances to date. Not too excited. Not too disappointed. The simple reality is that he and Huckerby are our ONLY players who can actually dribble past people consistently. Bentley routines picks his way past players but how he uses it is still a question.

I think it''s partly because he isn''t at Arsenal anymore. With his style, he is used to players who make short, quick passes and then move quickly to a space not too far away to receive another pass and move from there and so on. Our players simply don''t do that nearly as well as the megastars at Arsenal and so Bentley is having a little harder time creating productive partnerships at the club.

The logical person to work with Bents on this is Hux. But Darren tends to do more head-down running than the type of things the Bents would be suited to (the Ljungberg, Pires, Reyes style of player...obviously not as good but you know what I mean). Who else is good for this? I don''t know...maybe Safri. Maybe Francis over time.

I guess I''m just seeing Bents as a real talent who simply needs more time with this team to mould his game as well as other moulding to him. The reason Wenger let him come to Norwich is that we are the type of place that can help him develop in as close a style to Arsenal as possible. So I believe it''s just a question of time.

I think the formation used in the Spurs match is definitely the best one for us. And I think that with time, and another striker signing in the winter, that the combo of Hux, new striker and Bents with Safri, Holt and Francis behind them will be a very strong lineup. *would still consider swapping Holt for Helveg*

[Meeky 0]

[quote]I''m content with Bentley''s performances to date. Not too excited. Not too disappointed. The simple reality is that he and Huckerby are our ONLY players who can actually dribble past people consistentl...[/quote]

Common sense at last! Cheers

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

Meeky

Don''t interpret well meant suggestions as either moaning - or - being on his back.

By that tone, you''re suggesting he''s untouchable, and anyone who even thinks otherwise is a heretic.

The Board has mixed views on this one - who is to say who is right and who is wrong. But the point being made is  - is there benefit now in a rest?

Not sure personally - but NW needs to be confident he can sort out his distribution to be compatable with our style of play. How he achieves that is up to Nigel.

[bananaman 0]

I hate the moaners, but I can assure you I am not one of them.

I have seen Bentley 4 times this season, and (IMHO) he has done nothing but try and look good for the replays.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but he needs to get knuckled down and dig in like his team mates, and stop playing for himself. I play football, and if I had someone on my team that played like Bentley I''d be swinging for him before too long.

There were (and have been) far too many moments where we need to exploit the space we have on the counter-attack, the ball goes to Bentley, and by the time he''s done his customary drag-back, one way then the next, ALL the runs that have been made are rendered useless. Francis could have walked the ball in to the goal a couple of times yesterday, and Bentley had his head down, checking his own skills out from close up.

It''s all very well saying he looks for the killer ball, but HE CAN''T FIND IT! It doesn''t appear to be where he is looking for it. He should try the simple stuff and the classic "tv replay" stuff will come later.

I know I''m being harsh - and I apologise. But I have kept this in for 360-odd minutes, and it has to come out sometime. In the premiership, every attempt we can get is vital. Every lost opportunity comes at a very high price, and careless loss of posession is harming our chances of survival which, right now, don''t look good.

[rich 0]

can I just say ayrton twigge hit the nail on the head way back on the first page.  true bentley has the potential to be the best player on the pitch and great for us this season, but he also needs to realise he''s not as good as he thinks he is. maybe dropping the player will teach him that he has knuckle down and try a lot more.  I think he''ll come good, but in the meantime maybe we need to look to slot mcveigh in to that role and see how Bently respond, hopefully he''ll come out all guns blazing rather than sulking.

p.s can we stop with the whole any negative opinion is moaning rubbish that doesn''t help, any kind of debate is welcome on a webboard.

[ZLF 271]

Without a doubt Bentley has talent but his current performances do not match the ''he will save norwich from relegation'' hype that accompanied his signing.

His current performances have confirmed what we knew - he could be something one day - however city cant afford to wait for that day and in the meantime we have more able players who give the ball away less and work defensively.

As I said elsewhere if McVeigh/Yonson/Helveg put in a performance like that there would have been outrage and Worthy would drop him from the next game. As a comparison Yonson didnt even make the bench and he was far more effective against Arsenal than Bentley against SPurs.

Part of Bentleys learning curve has to be that you have to perform at a high level week in week out and if you fail to do so you will be dropped, cos its a harsh competitive world out there!

However if he does play sat I will cheer him wholeheartedly and look for him to start fulfilling his potential.

OTBC

[Tumbleweed 106]

Well, some mixed reaction here and some good points too- an interesting debate!

Since I can''t see any names next to the posts I can''t associate posts with names but I did see teh Wizard popping up (its worrying when even the great Wiz thinks I am being brave in broaching this subject!!).

First point: this is not moaning, its a simple observation and I agree with "Senior member with 625 posts" who stresses the need to get away from the thought that unless a thread states that all is well in the garden of eden its a moan. I like the lad- he comes cross well in interview and its a great credit that we have him, but looking at it objectively as we must is he actually an improvement on what we have- that is the question.

Second: yes I forgot his goal against Newcastle but that did owe a lot to Given rather than brilliance but they all count and he still had to get into position.

Third: do we have to train up someone else''s talent? We are a big enough club to train our own prodigious teenagers and I hate to see our own good people squeezed out unless for cause.

Finally: yes, others'' passing has also been poor. But we (or at least I) had high expectations of Bents and haven''t really seen the evidence. But I also had high hopes of Jonson and Helveg- they got dropped when not really delivering and it just seems a bit strange that when we need to keep the ball and create danger in teh box the man who is supposed to be the next Bergkamp looks as dangerous as Clint Easton at times.

I really hope it works out- there is genuine talent there- but in patches. We need our chaps firing more regularly and consistently for 90 mins- goodness knows its going to be hard enough to stay up.

But I am loving every minute of our return so far and its nice to have such small and petty concerns to raise rather than really serious issues. Roll on Villa and a double from young David!

[nolegs 0]

i''m sorry, but he''s still a kid for all you who were expecting the 2nd coming  you will bee dissapointed ,i''m sure he''s trying his best but he came here to gain experience...he''s getting it, so we get the early mistakes get a life and leave the BOY alone, hammer him and we''ll get hendo mk.2 after the barclay killed his confidence!!

[Northern Canary 0]

IMO Bentley has great potential and will turn into a quality player over the course of the year. That was probably the whole point of loaning him out for Wenger. He will just keep getting better, and it this stage thats just great

[Flick Fleck 0]

I have been well impressed with Bentley up until now, what little I''ve seen of him on the tv.  In my opinion his performance against Spurs was his best yet, and playing him in the ''hole'' behind the front two is his perfect position.  I was worried at the thought of him coming in from the right wing in the 4-4-2 of previous games.  Playing in the ''hole'' gives him the freedom and space for creativity that he will thrive on.  Looks like the guy has a bit of an ego on him, too, which I hope isn''t clouding other poster''s impressions of him.

I think, along with Northern Canary that he will keep improving.  This thread will be a good one to bring up again in about 2 months for our own comparison, because Bentley is now in the category of ''time will tell''.  Bit like our whole season really...

[chipster 0]

The lad has played 4 games, in those 4 games he has scored a vital goal and came within inches of giving us a point at old trafford, to be honest he can run around with a pineapple on his head for the rest of the game if he produces those kind of results playing poorly!!!

as for his passing ,i think most players looking to open defences would find it a bit easier with henry, pires, bercamp and co lurking around you, our problem is that if the ball falls to any one other than hucks it is going to look a pretty average pass.

 as for him running around posing, can anyone see how many defenders he sucks in, you are not going to score too many goals where you walk around 2 or 3 players, but to show you are willing,and have the ability to try to carry the ball for any distance opens things up and we shouldn''t discourage players from doing this, if they have the ability to do so!

 

[ZLF 271]

I agree with that Northern Canary - I think Worthy has to pace the use of Bentley throughout the year and like Helveg that means giving him a rest occassionally - he is still only 19 and few teenagers last a full season week in week out. Thats another reason why a rest will do him good longer term. OTBC