The Chap Sitting Next To Me & Administration

[Barclay_Boy 0]

I have no insider information, don''t know anybody special at the club, and have never posted a rumour before.

However, I''ve had a season tkt for the last 13 years and have sat in the same seat in the lower Barclay for the last 9. Next to mostly the same group of people. I sit next to a guy and his wife who have been pretty much pro Delia, so we avoid the subject to avoid a massive row! They are involved in the club and I believe mix with Delia a little socially. 

Not once has the guy come up with any speculation or rumour in all the conversations that we have had over the years. Until Saturday....

We were discussing the carnage that we had witnessed at half time and I was bemoaning putting a tenner each way on City winning the title, and how it certainly didn''t look like we had a promotion winning side on first half evidence. He just came out and said, that we would be in administration if we didn''t get promoted at the first attempt. I thought this was a throw away comment and said how did he know. He just said "trust me, this season is win or bust, they have put all hope on promotion at the first attempt,we are deffinitly in administration if we do not get promoted this year"

Could be rubbish, but as I''ve said the guy just doesn''t normally say stuff like that, he wasn''t angry at the rubbish we''d just seen, and something about the way he said it convinced me that this was not speculation. So are we that close to the edge financially, and is a season in this division now actually worth it if it finally gets rid of the shower in charge and gets us new owners (Southampton or Notts Co type please!)

[O.T.B.C 0]

I could see that being true to be honest.

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

I have no insider information, don''t know anybody special at the club, and have never posted a rumour before.

However, I''ve had a season tkt for the last 13 years and have sat in the same seat in the lower Barclay for the last 9. Next to mostly the same group of people. I sit next to a guy and his wife who have been pretty much pro Delia, so we avoid the subject to avoid a massive row! They are involved in the club and I believe mix with Delia a little socially. 

Not once has the guy come up with any speculation or rumour in all the conversations that we have had over the years. Until Saturday....

We were discussing the carnage that we had witnessed at half time and I was bemoaning putting a tenner each way on City winning the title, and how it certainly didn''t look like we had a promotion winning side on first half evidence. He just came out and said, that we would be in administration if we didn''t get promoted at the first attempt. I thought this was a throw away comment and said how did he know. He just said "trust me, this season is win or bust, they have put all hope on promotion at the first attempt,we are deffinitly in administration if we do not get promoted this year"

Could be rubbish, but as I''ve said the guy just doesn''t normally say stuff like that, he wasn''t angry at the rubbish we''d just seen, and something about the way he said it convinced me that this was not speculation. So are we that close to the edge financially, and is a season in this division now actually worth it if it finally gets rid of the shower in charge and gets us new owners (Southampton or Notts Co type please!)

[/quote]

 

 

 

if this is the best they can do, god help us!!!

i hope Gunn lucks out....we really are a joke!

[Downloads 35]

It''s largely up to the banks. If they don''t see how we are going to pay back 20mil then they will call us on it. They may have said you have one season to get back into a money making league before we call you on it.

We can only hope this is true as it will sort the club out one way or another. Without a rich owner, 20mil is a millstone around our necks.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

[quote user="Downloads"]

It''s largely up to the banks. If they don''t see how we are going to pay back 20mil then they will call us on it. They may have said you have one season to get back into a money making league before we call you on it.

We can only hope this is true as it will sort the club out one way or another. Without a rich owner, 20mil is a millstone around our necks.

[/quote]

I''m afraid that''s pretty much how I see it as well, have always scorned it before, but at the moment it really does seem the best way in the long run.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

I for one do not fear administration in the slightest. Most clubs seem to have prospered from it: Ipswich, Hull, Notts County and Southampton to name just four. With our huge support and excellent facilities, I see City as ripe for massive investment and an attractive proposition to boot. With the right ownership I think we could easily establish ourselves in the Premiership. A League One, or even god forbid, League Two side we are not!

[Chris Gorehams Alter Ego 0]

Wether or not he actually "knows" this as fact is hard to prove, but i think we all know that it would probably be the most likely outcome should we not go up.

[Canwebe Heroes 0]

I think that even people with bags of money are starting to thick twice about buying football clubs, the bubble may have burst on that one!

[Happy little canary 0]

Unfortunity I believe this, but I also feel Norwich could be the first to go into administation and not get bailed out. The hammer and nails are hanging over Norwich city as a league club. And what does the future hold...a AFC Wimbledon type club run by fans?

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Downloads"]

It''s largely up to the banks. If they don''t see how we are going to pay back 20mil then they will call us on it. They may have said you have one season to get back into a money making league before we call you on it.

We can only hope this is true as it will sort the club out one way or another. Without a rich owner, 20mil is a millstone around our necks.

[/quote]

I agree. 

I wonder what the banks made of Saturday''s result?  If I were them I''d pull the plug now . . .

 

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="missinginaction"]I think that even people with bags of money are starting to thick twice about buying football clubs, the bubble may have burst on that one!
[/quote]

It may not be as easy as it was to find investment but Southampton and Notts County have managed to do so in the last few weeks so there are people with cash wanting to buy football clubs out there. I suppose it depends on whether you actually want to sell or not and I remain unconvinced that Smith and Jones do want to sell.

[whoareyou? 0]

Probably got a lot to do with the £2 million loan repayment due in Dec 2010.

[Whats a right winger 0]

I''m no expert but surely part of the loan is to Delia & Michael, another £2 mil is to the Turners repayable on promotion to the Prem!! or a change of ownership & the remainder is the securiatisation repayble over a set time or again on change of ownership, so I don''t think it can just be called in on a whim. Otherwise everyone who had a mortgage would be at risk of their loan being revoked.

Of course unless you''re suggesting the club defaults on payments.

Like another post we all know that sooner or later a club will go into administration & not come out. With our luck!!

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Whats a right winger"]I''m no expert but surely part of the loan is to Delia & Michael, another £2 mil is to the Turners repayable on promotion to the Prem!! or a change of ownership & the remainder is the securiatisation repayble over a set time or again on change of ownership, so I don''t think it can just be called in on a whim. Otherwise everyone who had a mortgage would be at risk of their loan being revoked. Of course unless you''re suggesting the club defaults on payments. Like another post we all know that sooner or later a club will go into administration & not come out. With our luck!![/quote]

We still don''t know what''s happened to the £2.5m loan for the LSE land that was due for repayment in full in December 2008.  Is this the one the previous poster was referring to that''s been extended to 2010?

 

[Devils Advocate. 0]

Be afraid, be very afraid, can you imagine starting next season in Div 2, with a ten point deduction, it almost doesn''t bear thinking about.

[JuanVelasco 27]

The Turners loan was not just upon promotion! It was immediately upon promotion OR three years!

So thats £2m owed to the Turners, and at least £2.5m for LSE land which was intended to be a short term loan.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="JuanVelasco"]The Turners loan was not just upon promotion! It was immediately upon promotion OR three years! So thats £2m owed to the Turners, and at least £2.5m for LSE land which was intended to be a short term loan.[/quote]

No it wasn''t three years it was 2016.  If someone''s got an old Annual Report they should be able to verify this.

 

[ref89 0]

There have been lots of rumours about administration looming.  I would be more surprised if administration as NOT looming!

[0 0]

what is the lse land? sorry  i try to understand our finances but i struggle i''m only 16 :(

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="jenkins"]what is the lse land? sorry  i try to understand our finances but i struggle i''m only 16 :(
[/quote]

It''s not surprising you don''t know about it, because the club has done their level best to keep it quiet.

In 2003 they borrowed £2.5m to buy the derelict land behind the Jarrold Stand which was formerly owned by LSE (Laurence Scott & Electromotors).  The idea was to sell the land for development at a profit and then pay back the loan when it fell due in December 2008.  Since then the club has spent at least another £2m building access roads etc. which was a condition of buying the land. 

Even at the height of the property boom in about 2006/7 they couldn''t sell the land and right now they couldn''t give it away.  But the loan still has to be paid back somehow.

 

[G 0]

Is there not anyway we can do it so we have -10 taken off are final points tally? Coventry had points deducted and just finished below where they should of they didn''t start the next season with -10. If this is possible then i would sacrifice play off place or auto promotion for losing the 20 mill debt.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

From WOTB, signs of costcutting? -

we now have 5 (FIVE) mascots, who pay £195 for the privilidge!!!

And on the way out after the games, walking up Carrow Rd past the old Clarence Harbour, it struck me that there are no longer any traffic wardens stopping traffic coming down Carrow Rd when everyone piles out. Cars were trying to get down and forcing their way through the crowds, causing considerable annoyance to all. When i got to the top of Carrow Rd it struck me that there were no wardens whatsoever and the rd was not closed - for the first time ever nthat i can remember.

Interesting also to note that i read a comment on saturday that the PA announce said ''leave the stadium carefully'' after the final whistle. Was this what he was referring to? cut-backs in not paying for additional police to close roads?

Posted By: Wayne Biggins on August 10th 2009 at 22:31:00

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="jenkins"]what is the lse land? sorry  i try to understand our finances but i struggle i''m only 16 :(
[/quote]

It''s not surprising you don''t know about it, because the club has done their level best to keep it quiet.

In 2003 they borrowed £2.5m to buy the derelict land behind the Jarrold Stand which was formerly owned by LSE (Laurence Scott & Electromotors).  The idea was to sell the land for development at a profit and then pay back the loan when it fell due in December 2008.  Since then the club has spent at least another £2m building access roads etc. which was a condition of buying the land. 

Even at the height of the property boom in about 2006/7 they couldn''t sell the land and right now they couldn''t give it away.  But the loan still has to be paid back somehow.

 

[/quote]

Not forgetting £900K for land on Kerrison Rd which i believe was bought in 2002.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Quite plausible Barclay.

And I suspect the guy is right.

OTBC

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="JuanVelasco"]The Turners loan was not just upon promotion! It was immediately upon promotion OR three years! So thats £2m owed to the Turners, and at least £2.5m for LSE land which was intended to be a short term loan.[/quote]

No it wasn''t three years it was 2016.  If someone''s got an old Annual Report they should be able to verify this.

 

[/quote]The £2m interest-free loan from the Turners is repayable:1. On May 18th, 2017.2. Or on promotion to the Premier League.3. Or on Smith and Jones ceasing to be majority shareholders.If either of the latter events happens first.I really should start charging for this service...

[Bobzilla 132]

[quote user="Pablos pubic perm"]I for one do not fear administration in the slightest. Most clubs seem to have prospered from it: Ipswich, Hull, Notts County and Southampton to name just four. With our huge support and excellent facilities, I see City as ripe for massive investment and an attractive proposition to boot. With the right ownership I think we could easily establish ourselves in the Premiership. A League One, or even god forbid, League Two side we are not![/quote]You fool. Administration has destroyed more clubs than it has saved. Leeds. Luton. Bournemouth. Even Southampton were moments away from being destroyed. And I suspect that Southampton''s new owner''s interests lie not in the club, but in the docks.

[Fromage Frais 10]

[quote user="sad little canary"]Unfortunity I believe this, but I also feel Norwich could be the first to go into administation and not get bailed out. The hammer and nails are hanging over Norwich city as a league club. And what does the future hold...a AFC Wimbledon type club run by fans?[/quote]This will not happenDo you know there are people with a lot of money that you just did not know about, such people come out when there are real bargains to be had.

[Fromage Frais 10]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="jenkins"]what is the lse land? sorry  i try to understand our finances but i struggle i''m only 16 :([/quote]

It''s not surprising you don''t know about it, because the club has done their level best to keep it quiet.

In 2003 they borrowed £2.5m to buy the derelict land behind the Jarrold Stand which was formerly owned by LSE (Laurence Scott & Electromotors).  The idea was to sell the land for development at a profit and then pay back the loan when it fell due in December 2008.  Since then the club has spent at least another £2m building access roads etc. which was a condition of buying the land. 

Even at the height of the property boom in about 2006/7 they couldn''t sell the land and right now they couldn''t give it away.  But the loan still has to be paid back somehow.

 

[/quote]As you have put it looks like they bought on the up the bubble started in 2000/2001 and its not unlikely that the land could be worth less than they paid if rates go up and the crash starts up again.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="sad little canary"]Unfortunity I believe this, but I also feel Norwich could be the first to go into administation and not get bailed out. The hammer and nails are hanging over Norwich city as a league club. And what does the future hold...a AFC Wimbledon type club run by fans?[/quote]

wouldnt happen.. Shrewsbury, Bury, Rotherham, Luton and Torquay....  small clubs with poor attendances, not much in the line of stadiums and woeful training facilities.....

all 5 have been bought out in the last few seasons..... what makes them more attractive than Norwich city? A team who has been in the premiership in that time, has a huge fan base and a good stadium....

thered be people lining up down Carrow Road to buy us....

jas :)

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="Bobzilla"][quote user="Pablos pubic perm"]I for one do not fear administration in the slightest. Most clubs seem to have prospered from it: Ipswich, Hull, Notts County and Southampton to name just four. With our huge support and excellent facilities, I see City as ripe for massive investment and an attractive proposition to boot. With the right ownership I think we could easily establish ourselves in the Premiership. A League One, or even god forbid, League Two side we are not![/quote]

You fool. Administration has destroyed more clubs than it has saved. Leeds. Luton. Bournemouth. Even Southampton were moments away from being destroyed. And I suspect that Southampton''s new owner''s interests lie not in the club, but in the docks.
[/quote]

OMG, you call someone a fool and then post that!  How has administration "destroyed" Leeds?  They`re above us! None of the other clubs you mention have been "destroyed" either.  And, though i know you must be gutted about it, Southampton were NEVER going under- it was just a process of getting the best deal out of the three interested parties.  But still, as long as you are happy with your delusions......[8-)]