Does anyone rate the diamond??

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Except from Nige?  I certainly don''t, we have no width and with Hucks not cutting in from the left we look weaker.  I honestly don''t think I have spoken to a single person who likes the formation we are playing at the moment.  The players must surely like it or we wouldn''t persist with it?

Having said that though it hasn''t done to badly.  One win (albeit against Bristol Rovers) and two draws.  The thing that worries me though is the goals scored column - 1!  Ok we haven''t conceded, but we can''t stay up on draws.  We''re not attacking enough with the diamond

Come on Nige, ditch the diamond!

[Carles Puyols Hair 0]

I totally agree.  Let''s ditch it in favour of the exciting, and possibly suicidal 4-3-3! Goals, goals and more goals!

[kennyfoggo 0]

I wonder if the players like it or put up and shut up..Hucks has looked totally cheesed off to me....

[AJ 1,218]

this diamont is getting the worse or players:

Francis - wondering round like a lost sheep

Mcveigh - Played alot better on teh left after the diamond broke up, Him and huckerby work well together

Both Drury and Edworthy/Helveg - Are getting drawn to far up and getting badly exposed

Holt - Not doing to bad.

Safri - No problems looks comftable

Huckerby - likes to get on the wing, but like this there no-one to help him but drury running yards up the pitch leaving a gap in defence..........

So, we havnt really tried what we did last year, we won the league and prmotion so we must have done something right. But this 442 diamond MUST MUST AND MUST be ditched!!!!!

Any other formation fine, but this diamond is getting the worse of stuff. Ok, we havnt lost....
........but we havnt won either. To be honest weve rarely thretened goal, and that is a worry.

 

SORT IT OUT WORTHY!!!!!!!

[Northern Canary 0]

i think its good defensively but its too defensive and we can get goals. its hard to get crosses in with a diamond. The matches were more exciting when we played 442 but i would just say leave it up to NW

[Bully 0]

I for one am NOT a fan of the diamond.  We seem to have the wrong players in the wrong positions all the time.  Take the Bristol Rovers game, Gary Holt seemed to spend most of his time as a left winger!  We seemed to lack any kind of invention going forward.

Bring back 4-4-2!

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

I certainly rate the diamond for use away from home - but it appears to be far too defensive at home when you need to get more players forward more regularly, and with some width. 

Away, when it would be suicidal to attack too much (such as at places like Anfield), it seems ideal - we have to face the fact that many sides have better players than us so it is tactics and formations that will be one of our key factors in deciding whether we stay up.  We are hard to score against when using the formation and I for one would be pretty happy with another 0-0 on Sat, indeed from many of our away games - it may be a bit boring, but the aim must first and foremost be to try to avoid defeat away from home,and it is not as if we haven''t created anything vs Spurs/Villa.  We can always alter the formation if we get ''found out''!!

I stress that I am only talking about away games: at home I expect us to play a much moe dominant formation and to try to win well.

[nycanary 1]

i guess i''m the lone supporter for the diamond. while i''m not more enthused about it now than i initially was, i still remain supportive.

here''s why: i am a fan of bentley. his performance in the hole is only going to get better and he''s a wasted talent on the left. i am also a big fan of safri in the position in front of the back four. he does well there. if we switch to a 4-4-2, i think the odd man out is holt and we''ll lose a workhorse with that decision. i am also a fan of trying out mckenzie or mcveigh instead of the doc in the diamond formation. with hux/bents/leon or mcveigh, that''s an attacking trio that''s capable of causing problems while not giving up too much space in defence.

while opposition wingers have had more space, have we really conceded anything as a result? we''ve had three clean sheets in a row using the diamond. and yes, we haven''t scored much but i really feel that has to do with getting used to it.

i am playing a little devil''s advocate because i would like to see jonson and mcveigh get some more minutes and that''s best done in a 4-4-2 formation.

i''m pleased with any of the following three teams for the liverpool match (can sub helveg in for edworthy in any one of them):

green
edworthy charlton fleming drury
safri
holt francis
bentley
doc/leon/mcveigh hux

green
edworthy charlton fleming drury
mcveigh safri francis bentley
doc hux

green
edworthy charlton fleming drury
holt safri francis
mcveigh bentley
hux

but i would not do away with the diamond yet. we can be threatening with it. in both matches against villa and spurs, our defence looked solid and we were threatening on the attack. hux had a couple of great opportunities vs spurs and nearly got leon in there. against villa, bentley created space many times to give him room to shoot including the one at the end that he shoudl have put away.

dont give up yet. this could be our formation despite it''s lack of width. i would explore replacing doc with leon or mcveigh for the liverpool match. i''d leave edworthy instead of helveg in there because he''s better equipped to deal with kewell in terms of speed.

[Helsinki canary 240]

I think the diamond formation works well for certain match situations, especially away games where the home team is compelled to take the offensive - as we saw at Spurs - we played defensively but then nearly caught them 2 or 3 times on the break. I agree it is not suitable for home matches or against less offensive teams. When Worthy took over his first job was to shore up the defence and start getting clean sheets, then once that was fixed he started to open the team up to create more goal scoring opportunities. I think we are now seeing the same approach at the moment. A draw on Saturday will be great - a win at home to pompey is a MUST.

 

 

[Old Boy 0]

It works well as a defensive formation, and I think Worthy''s master plan is one point from every game (which a clean sheet guarantees), and snatch the odd win on the break. But it doesn''t suit some players and it doesn''t look attractive. Hopefully, as the season goes on, we''ll play more attacking formations at home. And I''d try Doc instead of Francis in the diamond - he''s adaptable, his motivation is great, he can tackle, and his passing is no worse than Francis''s.

[Jedi Knight 0]

[quote]I wonder if the players like it or put up and shut up..Hucks has looked totally cheesed off to me....[/quote]

Gary Holt said on Radio Norfolk this morning words to the effect that he doesn''t like it [the diamond formation] but if told to play it he will go along with it.

[ZLF 271]

The diamond does have a place in citys options - and that includes at anfield tomorrow. We need to beg steal and borrow points from every ground and I think that the diamond at anfield could give us that result.

The diamond works wonderfully defensively but very poorly from an attacking view point. My main criticism is that it forces us to adopt a midfield that is far too defensive. My pet hate in football is seeing any midfield, irrgardless of formation, that is laden with 3 defensive players. It is far too negative and never gives the options needed going forward. In my view I cannot see a need ever for Norwich to field Holt, Safri and Francis in the same midfield starting line up - it will simply not create enough goal opportunities. With the diamond and the effort and defensive focus it creates means we have no real alternative but to play these three.

However in other games we need to be more attacking and should adopt a 4-4-2 which I think suits us far more.

OTBC

[Mcsncfcmcs 0]

Like anything it has positives and negatives.

In theory it seems a good idea. Especially against the better teams in the Prem (and I would include Spurs and Villa in that group) we could do with a bit more cover defensively and having Safri at the base of a diamond offers us that cover, along with Holt and Francis. But personally I do not just see the diamond as a defensive measure. In theory it addresses a couple of problems we have faced in attack. Firstly, we all know how Hucks likes to play, drifiting out to the left wing. It''s very effective, but does then see Hucks taking the space which a left winger would normally occupy (closing down the left wingers space somewhat). Therefore playing the diamond allows Hucks to drift wide, although strangely against Bristol Rovers he seemed to do it less than in any game since he joined (more a case of the uninspiring nature of the game rather than the system I feel). The other consequence of Hucks'' play is that with most of the many chances he creates, because he is so quick there is often only the other striker in the box to try to get on the end of his great work. By playing someone behind the front two, this should immediately give Hucks another option to pick out in the box. However it seems as though that part hasn''t really worked, with Bentley and Macca generally picking up the ball outside the penalty area rather than getting on the end of chances inside it.

So I do think there are good ideas behind it. I would certainly never criticise Worthy for trying something different tactically, indeed I applaud him for doing so. And it has to be said for all the overall negative reaction from supporters we have gained two good results in the league with it. But I would have to agree with most fans that I would prefer something different. Like everyone else I would question any team and formation which sees Holt on the left wing at times because (as it sounds he has admitted himself) it doesn''t suit his game at all. The role Francis is being asked to play also doesn''t suit him, and considering the form he was showing in the first four games this season (he really was immense against Newcastle) it seems crazy to treat him this way. The diamond undoubtedly suits Safri''s game, as well as Bentley, but then it is also putting two other players out of position negating the positive aspect behind it.

I haven''t seen a great deal of Safri, but what I have heard about him (and what I have seen in the last couple of games) makes me think he is what I always wanted in our team. Someone who combines the strengths of Holt and Mullers to play alongside Francis in the middle. So I would love to see us play four across the middle with Bentley on the left (although prepared to go inside and into the box when Hucks comes across), Safri and Francis in the middle and Jonson or Macca on the right. But thats just my opinion and like I said, you cannot fault Worthy for trying something different (although he has to be ready to change if it isn''t working- and will Worthy ever drop Holt, even if it''s just for tactical reasons rather than him not playing well?). I think what will cause change is that Safri is the only player we have who can play at the base of the diamond, and with both international commitments and his tendency to pick up yellow cards, he will be missing in some games.

Having said all that, if we get three points with it tomorrow we won''t care! Lets hope it happens.

[nycanary 1]

very cohesive post, Mcsncfcmcs.

i think taking holt out and having safri and francis be the central midfielders would be a brave move for worthy to take. but certainly one that warrants attention.

i just cant get past this nagging notion i have that bents is just going to be a star in the hole and i want to give him a few more games to show those signs. if he doesn''t, i''ll withdraw to backing the flat 4-4-2. i also think the hole position is much better when you have a 2nd strong player to pass to in front of you -- someone that isn''t the doc.

i would like to see macca or leon alongside hux in the diamond with bents in behind.

[Morph 19]

Mcsncfcmcs, I like your analysis of the use of the diamond.

The question I have is the diamond offer advantages for our two free role front men in Bentley and Hucks, then how can the other issue of Holt be addressed?

Why not play a 4-2-1-1-2 formation? With the diamond actually stretching out into something more like an isoceles triangle. Have Holt and Safri sit in front of the back four with Francis roaming in front of these two. In front, in his existing role you have Bentley with two strikers in front of him - preferably, Huckerby and McKenzie.

[nolegs 0]

I agree away from home there is a place for the diamond,but please never ,ever,again at carrow road 4-4-2 or 4-3-3.