Looks like Dejan's off

[missing in action? 0]

Stefanovic is a quality player, well proven.Yes he has been injured for a long period, but that isnt his fault.with the right rehab he should come back just as strong as before. And as for the speed issue, i think he will be quick enough, especially for the league one game. He will be key especially in the hoof, rush and bashing game. im sure he would be calm under pressure and actually encourage playing the ball from the back and not like nelson who hoofs it back (he is *).Stefo''s age means nothing if he is still a good player, you and i cant truly judge until we see him. Im going on the uber fit 33yr old of last year.his wages are high admittedly but if we were very concerned about wages, why pay hughes 7k? a week? seems like were willing to dish it out.but as far as im concerned we dont have a Centre back as intelligent, cultured and good as stefo. i hope he doesnt go.and that he can prove everyone wrong.

[missing in action? 0]

As for doc bashing, i think he has improved no end, and he is getting better, but he needs to try and keep developing. he was at his worst when he was covering others (semi and shackell) so as far as im concrened as long as he is with askou or stefo? he will be able to concentrate on his game and being a good captain (he isnt a motivator but he likes to set an example)

[Rum Ol Boy 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="Rum ol boy"]

 I don''t personally rate Doc, 

1- he gets the wrong side of defenders a lot of the time,

2 - flaps his arms all over the attacking player

3 - and hisdistribution is shocking

4 - but I think he''ll add important experience

[/quote]

1 - rarely does he get the wrong side of defenders. His reading of the game is good, he usually comes to meet the ball. We will agree to disagree, I think he gets caught out quite a lot

2 - didn''t realise football was a non-contact sport. It makes it a nice day out for strikers if the defenders don''t bother to put them under any physical pressure. You don''t think Nelson, Stefanovic, Askou, Ferdinand, Terry, Nesta etc etc are going to grab shirts and tussle a bit? They all do it, Doherty is no different at all. He was guilty of giving away penalties and dangerous free kicks due to have his arms all round the opposition.......but this is a flaw in the ever evolving game, referees seem to penalise the defenders more in these situations now, maybe Doc just needs to improve here 

3 - how often does he give the ball away when he''s not under pressure? Sure it''s lovely if a defender can ping a dozen perfect 50 yard diagonal balls every game but very few can do it and it''s hardly essential. Just keeping possession of the ball is essential. The simple ball. Just basic football, that works. I''m not talking about 50yard passes here, I''m talking about possession being given away cheaply

4 - true

[/quote]

[ZLF 271]

Exeperience in this league is worth so much.  

For those at the reading game last season Cody was made to look completely ineffective because he was outplayed by more experiences deenders in Bikey and Duberry. The same happened on Sat where Doc had the Manures talented but inexperienced striker comfortably under control in the first half by knowing how to defend, where to apply physical pressure and keeping tabs on the striker. Doc was far more impressive that Askou on sat.

Stefanovic can bring the same.  For me its more about his attitude.  If its like Cottee - here for easy money - then we should force him out,  but if he can bring a bit of the channon/dublin ethic of wanting to succeed and develop the youngsters then he has a crucially big part to play in this season and Gunn  would do well to use that.

As for Doc its old ground - the bloke give his all everytime he steps on to the pitch for us, generally plays well (and for the last 4 seasons actually better, consistently so,  than any of his defensive partners) but does make mistakes. His is a capable but imperfect champs level defender.    However people are not prepared to lose their stereotypical views of him and, in the same way that fans could see no wrong in clingan last season, they will never see what Doc actually brings to the team.

[Yobocop 1,094]

Funny someone should mention Doherty''s distribution...that''s actually one of his strengths.

[Lambo 0]

Zipper - "For those at the reading game last season Cody was made to look completely ineffective because he was outplayed by more experiences deenders in Bikey and Duberry."

You and i must have been watching different games cos what i saw was them having no choice but to hack him out, fair enough he tired towards the end but to say he was in-effective is very harsh on Cody, he scared there defense shitless.

[The Walking Man 13]

Stevanovich actually signed from a premiership football club, Fulham, at the time he thought he was joining a Championship team that would be pushing for the premiership. Now since he got injured we have relegated to league 1 so in reality we still have a premiership class centre back playing for a league 1 club. He may be unproven in a Norwich shirt but does that mean with 15 years in the game behind him he still has something to prove? The only doubt I have about Stefanovich is his ability to overcome this injury and the fact that he has had very little pre-season training this year.

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Lambo"]Zipper - "For those at the reading game last season Cody was made to look completely ineffective because he was outplayed by more experiences deenders in Bikey and Duberry."

You and i must have been watching different games cos what i saw was them having no choice but to hack him out, fair enough he tired towards the end but to say he was in-effective is very harsh on Cody, he scared there defense shitless.[/quote]Eh? As far as I recall, the Reading home game was one of the most depressingly toothless performances I have ever witnessed as a Norwich fan. We didn''t trouble them at all, and the result was never in doubt. So when the hell did Cody scare their defence sh1tless??Ok, he was faster than their defence, but that isn''t scary if you can''t get into dangerous positions.

[Lambo 0]

Like i said, Cody scared them, he ran at them and was probably the only Norwich player to try to do anything at all.

One of their CB''s was lucky to stay on the pitch after Cody was clean through on goal and he brought him down.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Rum ol boy"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Rum ol boy"]

 I don''t personally rate Doc, 

1- he gets the wrong side of defenders a lot of the time,

2 - flaps his arms all over the attacking player

3 - and hisdistribution is shocking

4 - but I think he''ll add important experience

[/quote]

1 - rarely does he get the wrong side of defenders. His reading of the game is good, he usually comes to meet the ball. We will agree to disagree, I think he gets caught out quite a lot

2 - didn''t realise football was a non-contact sport. It makes it a nice day out for strikers if the defenders don''t bother to put them under any physical pressure. You don''t think Nelson, Stefanovic, Askou, Ferdinand, Terry, Nesta etc etc are going to grab shirts and tussle a bit? They all do it, Doherty is no different at all. He was guilty of giving away penalties and dangerous free kicks due to have his arms all round the opposition.......but this is a flaw in the ever evolving game, referees seem to penalise the defenders more in these situations now, maybe Doc just needs to improve here 

3 - how often does he give the ball away when he''s not under pressure? Sure it''s lovely if a defender can ping a dozen perfect 50 yard diagonal balls every game but very few can do it and it''s hardly essential. Just keeping possession of the ball is essential. The simple ball. Just basic football, that works. I''m not talking about 50yard passes here, I''m talking about possession being given away cheaply

4 - true

[/quote][/quote]

When does he give possession away cheaply? Hardly ever. Pretty much everytime he has the ball (and isn''t under pressure to clear it it out) he finds a yellow shirt with an easy ball. Other players might do it and obviously player, including him, will give the ball away at some point, but it''s really not something he does much of at all.

I mean I can see why you would complain about him getting his arms around the opposition because at least that happens (although it is just part of playing football) but the criticism of him giving the ball away cheaply is just something you''ve plucked out of fresh air.

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Lambo"]Zipper - "For those at the reading game last season Cody was made to look completely ineffective because he was outplayed by more experiences deenders in Bikey and Duberry." You and i must have been watching different games cos what i saw was them having no choice but to hack him out, fair enough he tired towards the end but to say he was in-effective is very harsh on Cody, he scared there defense shitless.[/quote]

Not harsh at all and I said so at the time,  and also before the game that he was the wrong choice to start the match because of his inexperience. As Mook pointed out we could have carried onplaying until today and we would not have scored that day - but that was not just down to Cody,  it was a team thing,  primarily from the managerial staff.  However Codys contribution was to start well (including being halted when he used his pace to go between 2 of them) but once they realised pace was his threat he was safely contained. He continued to work himself into the ground but without truly looking like scoring.

Codys best performances came as an impact player from the bench, and I expect the same this season.  It says more about how much Cody has to learn about the pro game having stepped up so many levels in such a short space of time than where his ability can get to.  He has potential and I am excited about seeing him improve during this season.  

My point is that experienced able defenders can negate inexperience and poor ability without the need for pace and without the need to simply hacking at every challenge.