Where is our believe?

[Arthur Whittle 0]

Why are so many fans so accepting of out current plight and just shrug their shoulders,tut and say ''well face it we are a small club''?.

IM SICK OF IT, STOP THE DUMBING DOWN OF OUR EXPECTATIONS AND THATS GIVE OUR CLUB SOME BACKBONE.

No more happy clappers, lets make OUR club hard, Carrow Road a fortress, and the Board hell this Season!

[The Butler 0]

Did you have your cigar puffing Arthur?

"We will fight them on the terraces, we will fight them......."

With you all the way Winston!

[singing canary 0]

im with you on that .

the thing is when anyone start saying anything that some dont agree with you get shot down in flames for moaning.

this club will never have a back bone untill the cook is removed.

[JuanVelasco 27]

I think you mean "Belief"

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="singing canary"]im with you on that . the thing is when anyone start saying anything that some dont agree with you get shot down in flames for moaning. this club will never have a back bone untill the cook is removed.[/quote]

Tell me about it SC............and well said Arthur.

[ref89 0]

But that moaning surely works both ways?  Whatever your views, the opposing view will be seen as moaning?  Its backing it up with reasoned debate that wins people over, rather than calling them names.

[chicken 0]

I keep hearing this ''small club'' thing being thrown about but what I don''t get is that it is mainly by people looking to have a dig.I don''t remember seeing any posts suggesting that we are a small club and accepting it with glee.Appart from anything else I wish people would at least scale it for everyone. I mean we are a mahooosive club for League 1, we would be gargantual in league 2 but in the championship we are top half of the table and in the prem we would be strugglers.So depending on what scale you are looking at I think you will find we could be any one of those. Right now we are a big club because we are in a league made up of reletively smaller teams going on things like gate sizes etc.However it is not the size of the club that depends on its success so to me it is a completely fruitless argument. There are teams like Wigan who bought their way to reletive premiership safety whilst other teams lost it and fell quite some distance. Man City fell all the way to what is now League 2.I wouldn''t argue that our current situation is great because its not, but at the same time I don''t go along with the end of the world is nigh types because I don''t believe it to be as bad as those people suggest either.Some people have been banging on about free signings and how the club has no money etc. If you ask me the squad has been too small for too long with a few overpaid players taking up the wage bill. Getting rid of the higher paid players and brining in cheaper options is something we should have looked at a long time ago, that includes youngsters that given a chance could be as good if not better than what we have.If the club has money I would much rather see them spend it wisely on say two or three players that will make the difference.People say that Clingan was our best player last season - but he was a defencive player, not a creator or goalscorer. To get a defencive/holding player is easier than to get a Hoolahan or a Huckerby or someone with that something extra. Those are the players that cost money and so if we sign one or two of those with whatever money we have then it would be wiser than spending what money we do have on players we could and have paid nothing for.Its all about perspective.

[Snoots 0]

[quote user="Arthur Whittle OBE"]

Why are so many fans so accepting of out current plight and just shrug their shoulders,tut and say ''well face it we are a small club''?.

IM SICK OF IT, STOP THE DUMBING DOWN OF OUR EXPECTATIONS AND THATS GIVE OUR CLUB SOME BACKBONE.

No more happy clappers, lets make OUR club hard, Carrow Road a fortress, and the Board hell this Season!

[/quote]

 

There''s a fine balance between self-delusion and realism. Having visited this MB a few times over recent weeks I have concluded that most of you on here are inveterate moaners with unrealistic expectations and , indeed, a close knit community the members of which rush to each other''s defence if a "newby" comes along with views which are at variance with the MB''s consensus. We have no reason to believe that we are any better or offer any more potential than the majority of Championship clubs. Basically, we are surrounded by a sea of mediocrity and what makes the difference between comparative, albeit usually short-term, success and "failure" is better direction/management i.e. at owner/director level as well as at football level and a slice of good luck. The idea that (a) we can attract a mega wealthy buyer and that (b) this would create utopia is what it clearly shrieks at anyone with an iota of sense : idealistic and therefore unrealistic claptrap.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

I think you mean "Belief"

 

[/quote]Is your best counter-argument still to pick people up on their spelling??Why don''t you try pointing out to Arthur that belief works on more levels than just assuming we have to be a big club.  I think the reason why some people aren''t getting too upset at the moment is because we are approaching the start of the new season with new players who, despite all the postulating on both sides, few of us have seen play.  They could turn out shite, or they could turn out to be a team of future legends.  Having belief in the team doesn''t just mean shouting "we''re supposed to be a big club, this League 1 is shit", it surely means believing that there are better things around the corner and that, to coin a phrase, the only way is up?  Shouting and singing our hearts out at Carrow Road will make it more of a fortress than standing grumbling into a pastie and will certainly show more ''belief''...

[WeAreYellows49 0]

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God''s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

 

Ok i''m ready [:)]

[JuanVelasco 27]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

I think you mean "Belief"

 

[/quote]
Is your best counter-argument still to pick people up on their spelling??

Why don''t you try pointing out to Arthur that belief works on more levels than just assuming we have to be a big club.  I think the reason why some people aren''t getting too upset at the moment is because we are approaching the start of the new season with new players who, despite all the postulating on both sides, few of us have seen play.  They could turn out shite, or they could turn out to be a team of future legends.  Having belief in the team doesn''t just mean shouting "we''re supposed to be a big club, this League 1 is shit", it surely means believing that there are better things around the corner and that, to coin a phrase, the only way is up? 

Shouting and singing our hearts out at Carrow Road will make it more of a fortress than standing grumbling into a pastie and will certainly show more ''belief''...
[/quote]

I never normally pick people up on their spelling. As for a counter argument, their is nothing that I can say to Arthur that would give him more belief in this club. Although I agree with certain aspects of his feelings towards the club and certain members of the board, he knows very well that there are other aspects that I disagree with. He also knows exactly what actions would have to be taken at the club for him personally to have more belief in the club.

In order for Arthur Whittle to have more belief and optimism in the club, either 1). A wealthy investor would have to buy Delia out and completely change the culture of the club. Or 2). Delia would have to leave, to be replaced by smaller local businessmen with no money, who could at least give the club a new energy and community feel.

As for the other 40,000 registered fans of the club, they can only speak for themselves, I cannot generalise and it is up to each of them to express their opinions on platforms such as the Pink Un messageboard. Something which of course many of us, you and me included, do on an almost daily basis. There is no simple argument or answer to the question.

I hope that meets to your satisfaction.

 

[JuanVelasco 27]

[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

I think you mean "Belief"

 

[/quote]
Is your best counter-argument still to pick people up on their spelling??

Why don''t you try pointing out to Arthur that belief works on more levels than just assuming we have to be a big club.  I think the reason why some people aren''t getting too upset at the moment is because we are approaching the start of the new season with new players who, despite all the postulating on both sides, few of us have seen play.  They could turn out shite, or they could turn out to be a team of future legends.  Having belief in the team doesn''t just mean shouting "we''re supposed to be a big club, this League 1 is shit", it surely means believing that there are better things around the corner and that, to coin a phrase, the only way is up? 

Shouting and singing our hearts out at Carrow Road will make it more of a fortress than standing grumbling into a pastie and will certainly show more ''belief''...
[/quote]

I never normally pick people up on their spelling. As for a counter argument, there is nothing that I can say to Arthur that would give him more belief in this club. Although I agree with certain aspects of his feelings towards the club and certain members of the board, he knows very well that there are other aspects that I disagree with. He also knows exactly what actions would have to be taken at the club for him personally to have more belief in the club.

In order for Arthur Whittle to have more belief and optimism in the club, either 1). A wealthy investor would have to buy Delia out and completely change the culture of the club. Or 2). Delia would have to leave, to be replaced by smaller local businessmen with no money, who could at least give the club a new energy and community feel.

As for the other 40,000 registered fans of the club, they can only speak for themselves, I cannot generalise and it is up to each of them to express their opinions on platforms such as the Pink Un messageboard. Something which of course many of us, you and me included, do on an almost daily basis. There is no simple argument or answer to the question.

I hope that meets to your satisfaction.

 

[/quote]

[spm2866 0]

Spoken like a true fan of football.....

I said on a previous thred earlier this summer that NCFC is no longer "Delias little Norwich", dropping down to League 1 has made the NCFC potentially the biggest club in that League this season.

18,000 fans will pull the great NCFC back from the depths of derision!

OTBC since 1969

[The Voice Of Reason 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God''s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

 

Ok i''m ready [:)]

[/quote]

Yes dear, lets help you to the day room now where you can have your afternoon nap in front of the telly with the other residents.

[Lambo 0]

I can''t wait for the season to start, getting pangs for my saturday footy.

Seriously, can''t wait to go to Carrow Road for the Colchester game.

[. 0]

[quote user="spm2866"]

Spoken like a true fan of football.....

I said on a previous thred earlier this summer that NCFC is no longer "Delias little Norwich", dropping down to League 1 has made the NCFC potentially the biggest club in that League this season.

18,000 fans will pull the great NCFC back from the depths of derision!

OTBC since 1969

[/quote]

Here''s your answer in neon lights Arthur.....

I''m afraid we need a few years in the wilderness to shake out these sycophants and bring the grass root fan back into the club. A generation of "luvvie" offsprings have now swelled the ranks of the Deliarites....and the whole ethos of NCFC is lost.

Until Norwich City once again represents our proud City and wider County all is lost......

[spm2866 0]

Sycophant i''m not, i have been a fan since the days of the railway sleepers "69 onward" and have watched the club grow slowly even around all the money thrown at football in the last 20 years.

My father was there at the first major growth stage "59/60" and i joined at the next "72" which since we have seen many positives and quite a few lows which i think have brought on by the society we have lived through to this day.

Arthur is just trying to show his loyalty to something he has always believed in which i''m sure was past by his family, there are enough of us "true fans" who remember what NCFC is all about and we shall pass this to our offspring and in turn it will be passed again.

The "luvvie/Deliarite" comment is way off the mark in my case St.Cluck so you will understand why i have took offence to your comments!

Now the club has reached its lowest ebb for 50 years, its the perfect time for the older generations to be heard as the "luvvies/deliarites" will become less due to the position of NCFC, they will be saying there are better things to do on a mid-winter saturday against Carlistle.

Please caution your comments because your NCFC needs you now more than ever

OTBC since 1969

[Block E Buh 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

I think you mean "Belief"

 

[/quote]Is your best counter-argument still to pick people up on their spelling??Why don''t you try pointing out to Arthur that belief works on more levels than just assuming we have to be a big club.  I think the reason why some people aren''t getting too upset at the moment is because we are approaching the start of the new season with new players who, despite all the postulating on both sides, few of us have seen play.  They could turn out shite, or they could turn out to be a team of future legends.  Having belief in the team doesn''t just mean shouting "we''re supposed to be a big club, this League 1 is shit", it surely means believing that there are better things around the corner and that, to coin a phrase, the only way is up?  Shouting and singing our hearts out at Carrow Road will make it more of a fortress than standing grumbling into a pastie and will certainly show more ''belief''...[/quote]

Belief?

[7rew 0]

[quote user="St. Cluck"]

Until Norwich City once again represents our proud City and wider County all is lost......

[/quote]Which do you want, to represent Norwich and Norfolk or to have a rich owner from anywhere?You can''t have both.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="The Voice Of Reason"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God''s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

 

Ok i''m ready [:)]

[/quote]

Yes dear, lets help you to the day room now where you can have your afternoon nap in front of the telly with the other residents.

[/quote]

[:P]

[singing canary 0]

i have never called anyone names just because they may not agree what ever people think its up to them .

i try and see both sides to every story yet when a club has declined the rate this one has the blame has to stem back to the people who are running it.

this club has got worse year by year and will take a long time to get out of the rut it is in .

i feel people have plenty to moan about .

some of the actions by the club has split the fans .

my view is untill we have someone who has more knowledge of running a football club rather than a kitchen this club will end up on its knees .

but there you go delia knows best or she is ignorant enough to think that .

[canarytom 0]

I''m with you on this one. I belief we will do well this season

[jelltex 0]

The club has had a ''small club'' attitude for many years, going back into the 80s. Happily selling players.

There is no reason why we can''t do a job in the Prem with the support we can draw on. I have been at the Carra with 36,000 fans screaming.

What is clear is that in the past two decades we have had people in positions of power who have little idea about money; Chase and Smith have both screwed up with money; Snith as telling us over and over again that the club knew the risks and knew how to deal with that. She was wrong.

Whether or not we are a big club in a small league, or you take offence at words or phrases; nothing can change the fact that we are back where we started 50 years ago, and hopefully we can begin climbing again.

[nutty nigel 7,897]

[quote user="The Butler"]

Did you have your cigar puffing Arthur?

"We will fight them on the terraces, we will fight them......."

With you all the way Winston!

[/quote]

Is that why Bly and Crafty call them winnies[:^)]

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

Did you have your cigar puffing Arthur?

"We will fight them on the terraces, we will fight them......."

With you all the way Winston!

[/quote]

Is that why Bly and Crafty call them winnies[:^)]

 

[/quote]

More likely from the A.A. MiIlne character[:D]

[Shack Attack 0]

I''m sitting here, fairly bored and counting down the minutes until 5.00, staring out of my office window on July 15th and fail to see what I can really do to change our ''current plight''. What do you reckon we should do Arthur? Can we really make any changes?

Hope you''re well mate. Don''t disappear for more than a few days again, you know what happened last time [;)]

[. 0]

[quote user="7rew"][quote user="St. Cluck"]

Until Norwich City once again represents our proud City and wider County all is lost......

[/quote]

Which do you want, to represent Norwich and Norfolk or to have a rich owner from anywhere?

You can''t have both.
[/quote]

My wishes are simple....

A club representative of Norwich and Norfolk irrespective of top flight success.... and a crowd of grass root supporters aware of who we are as an outfit and what we stand for. As it is we are simply part of the Delia Smith brand... a hermaphrodite unsure of how to behave or what it should be.

We were a community club long before the coming of the mythical "Saviour"....and attracted quality players...  had some great managers and our past Chairmen and Board members have done us proud.

There are monied people within our community who would step up if Smith and MWJ were banished.... and as has been proved recently by various other clubs.... a billionaire isn''t necessarily the magic bullet answer to our problems. If your heart stops beating.. you need more than just money to get it working again.

Give the City it''s club back... and things would change dramatically. Stay as we are and the club simply moves further and further away from the meaning of it''s very existence........ 

 

 

[Romantic 0]

[quote user="St. Cluck"][quote user="spm2866"]

Spoken like a true fan of football.....

I said on a previous thred earlier this summer that NCFC is no longer "Delias little Norwich", dropping down to League 1 has made the NCFC potentially the biggest club in that League this season.

18,000 fans will pull the great NCFC back from the depths of derision!

OTBC since 1969

[/quote]

Here''s your answer in neon lights Arthur.....

I''m afraid we need a few years in the wilderness to shake out these sycophants and bring the grass root fan back into the club. A generation of "luvvie" offsprings have now swelled the ranks of the Deliarites....and the whole ethos of NCFC is lost.

Until Norwich City once again represents our proud City and wider County all is lost......

[/quote]I''m not having this. It''s just not true! It''s based on a difference of political opinion presented by fans whose approach to our crisis is at odds with your own. Don''t patronise everyone in yellow just because they aren''t responding to the problem in the exact same way as yourself . And don''t bomb out every rallying call either. It''s tedious.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="The Voice Of Reason"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God''s good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

 

Ok i''m ready [:)]

[/quote]

Yes dear, lets help you to the day room now where you can have your afternoon nap in front of the telly with the other residents.

[/quote]

WAY''s a babe and needs very little help or guidence from you in that department.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="St. Cluck"][quote user="7rew"][quote user="St. Cluck"]

Until Norwich City once again represents our proud City and wider County all is lost......

[/quote]Which do you want, to represent Norwich and Norfolk or to have a rich owner from anywhere?You can''t have both.[/quote]

My wishes are simple....

A club representative of Norwich and Norfolk irrespective of top flight success.... and a crowd of grass root supporters aware of who we are as an outfit and what we stand for. As it is we are simply part of the Delia Smith brand... a hermaphrodite unsure of how to behave or what it should be.

 [/quote]So you''re suggesting that matchday crowds are largely unaware of who ''we'' are as an outfit? And ''what we stand for''? Could you define what you mean by these because I would like to know if I fit into either of this brackets.We are part of a Delia Smith brand - are we? Wouldn''t we be part of a Peter Cullum brand or a something else brand if we were taken over by someone with money? Chelsea - Abramovich changed all of their branding the moment he took over, he changed their badge, he changed the branding of Chelsea Village etc. What makes you think that someone new would be as respectful to what we have as perhaps even Delia may have been - whether you deem that to be a lot or very little.

[quote user="St. Cluck"]We were a community club long before the coming of the mythical "Saviour"....and attracted quality players...  had some great managers and our past Chairmen and Board members have done us proud. [/quote]

Did we attract quality players? Or did we find them from the ranks of the youth system and other clubs reserves? I was at middle school when we were in europe - how many quality players did we pay competative money for then? Our best players cost little if anything - Sutton was youth, Crook and Bowen from reserve teams and Goss hit form at the right time. Robins was the only player that would come close to what you call attracting quality players and then we were a force to be reconed with and he was a Man U reserve!

That is no disrespect to the players or their quality but you can''t argue that they were proven quality players. They could have all ended up being like Hughes or Jarrett. On top of that after we did well our great community club thought that we were so big and capable that they sold our top players thus lopping off the quality edge that had seen us finish high up the league.

As others have said Walker was a one hit wonder - he did well with us the first time but never really did anything great in management other than that - he inherited a good team from what was a good manager.

[quote user="St. Cluck"]There are monied people within our community who would step up if Smith and MWJ were banished.... and as has been proved recently by various other clubs.... a billionaire isn''t necessarily the magic bullet answer to our problems. If your heart stops beating.. you need more than just money to get it working again.[/quote]

The problem is not the fact that there are not people like that - the problem is that they want to sell and it seems people are bargain hunting. They want a good deal, a viable risk. At the moment maybe we are not a viable risk. They would be paying over the odds for a League 1 team when they could buy another club and spend the difference on players or stadium expansion and take a more reasoned gamble on promotion. A few clubs have little or no debt.Which is my main issue with the club - how in the last ten years - have they not reduced the level of debt this club is in. I don''t care if it is manageable or not, I want to know why. The money being paid to ''manage'' that debt is wasted - its nothing money. It could be spent on players or other areas which could reap better rewards for the club.

[quote user="St. Cluck"]Give the City it''s club back... and things would change dramatically. Stay as we are and the club simply moves further and further away from the meaning of it''s very existence........ [/quote]

Firstly the only real answer is to have a representative of the fans on the board. The problem with this is that to do so you would need a larger membership of fans in a fans group. I think it would be hard to have someone like Tilly for example, have a seat on the board if only a few hundred people voted him in - he still wouldnt be representational. Normaly for elections you would need a certain percentage of turnout for it to be official.As for a football clubs meaning of exhistance - arn''t they all the same? To achieve as high a place as possible, to win as many games as possible?I also think that what a club means to society changes with the generations and the expectations of society - it is not some whimsickle thing that can be changed by one person. I missed the Milk Cup and as such I perhaps don''t have as much respect for it as someone who can remember it clearly. I do remember finishing third in the prem so what the club means to me will differ to what it means to someone older who has more memories - it does not mean either of our attachments to the club are stronger or better, just different.However when I look back at my supporting life as a fan - I was born in 1982 and I chose - neither of my parents are from Norfolk or huge football fans - to support Norwich aged around 8 after being to several games with friends. So in the 19 years since then how many have been in the prem and how many in the championship? So another difference starts to raise its head - expectations. I am comfortable with the club being Championship and premiership hopefuls. For some on here that is not enough. But I would argue that we have never ever had a top class competative player budget either in wages or in transfer funds. It speaks volumes that Ashton was our most expencive player at £3million and in that team was the most expencive player by £2million.So when people tell me that I think the club is small I to, get annoyed because whilst we are not small fry, we are by no means big either. A lot of where we are is because we have failed to keep up with the times and have been swamped by the cash injection. The very thing we hold dear - a community club - may not be enough to keep a club competetive anymore. Its all about shirt sales, sponsorship deals and world-wide fanbase.EG - it is rumoured that Real Madrid made back the transfer fee for Beckham within two weeks in world wide shirt sales alone.