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dhickl

Rebate and Supporter's Trust

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A lot of people on here feel that because people asked for the rebate back, it was a protest against the current board - and that it had nothing to do with people wanting a bit extra money in the current economy.

Using the same logic that those people have used, does this mean that after the plea from the support''s trust (http://carrowroad.net/cnews/modules/news/article.php?storyid=633), if people don''t the trust their rebate it is a protest against the trust? 

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Bloody ridiculous post......Does that also mean that because I spend my Rebate in Tesco''s I dont trust Asda?  Jesus, some people!

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[quote user="mtv"]Bloody ridiculous post......Does that also mean that because I spend my Rebate in Tesco''s I dont trust Asda?  Jesus, some people![/quote]

That''s my point.  The fact that someone has decided not to give the club more money than they have to, doesn''t mean that all those people were protesting - yet that''s what people on here have read into it.

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I also read the plea from the Trust http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/norwich/8123031.stm and according to Mike ( thanks for the email) some pople have promised their rebates to the Trust but he intimated that promises don''t always get kept.

I still think that the ST holders who paid upfront are are awaiting cheques may choose to spoil themselves rather than give it away to anyone.

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If i find a new job between now and when i receive my rebate i''l give mine to the trust, having someone from them on the board would be a good idea.

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[quote user="Lambo"]If i find a new job between now and when i receive my rebate i''l give mine to the trust, having someone from them on the board would be a good idea.[/quote]

 

Out of interest why do prefer someone from the Trust to be the fans representative rather than from one of the other groups?

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Given how there is already a huge kudos to be had from being "in the know" as it were on here, I can just imagine that those posters close to those in the ST will absolutely delight in having even more reason to crow about nothing in particular on the basis that they may or may not have priveleged information. Given the bickering between posters on even a single player (Alan Lee for example) what hope has the Trust got of getting anything right decision-wise?

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[quote user="dhickl"]

[quote user="mtv"]Bloody ridiculous post......Does that also mean that because I spend my Rebate in Tesco''s I dont trust Asda?  Jesus, some people![/quote]

That''s my point.  The fact that someone has decided not to give the club more money than they have to, doesn''t mean that all those people were protesting - yet that''s what people on here have read into it.

[/quote]Well that''s certainly what the Supporters Trust have read into it. LINK

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Just to clear something up - the Supporters Trust DO want a fan on the Board at NCFC however, from what I can tell they DON''T think that any of them are the fan to do it. They''re looking for someone experienced either in football or in business (or preferably both I imagine) who can offer that added constructiveness of acumen from a fan''s perspective.I really don''t think any of them are looking for the limelight at all. They''re just trying to facilitate a means to an end, like many clubs in Europe and a growing number here already do.

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[quote user="LQ"]Just to clear something up - the Supporters Trust DO want a fan on the Board at NCFC however, from what I can tell they DON''T think that any of them are the fan to do it. They''re looking for someone experienced either in football or in business (or preferably both I imagine) who can offer that added constructiveness of acumen from a fan''s perspective.

I really don''t think any of them are looking for the limelight at all. They''re just trying to facilitate a means to an end, like many clubs in Europe and a growing number here already do.



[/quote]

So who did you play for LQ? Or do you see yourself in the Brady role?

 

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[quote user="LQ"]Sorry, I''m not sure what you''re getting at.


[/quote]

Strange you are not usually that obtuse![;)]

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It must be a Monday morning thing then, obviously!

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[quote user="LQ"]Sorry, I''m not sure what you''re getting at.


[/quote]

Quite simply do you, or don''t you see yourself in the role of Board Member representing the ST?

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Oh I see - I thought he meant Liam Brady!I''ve never been a winger!!The answer to that is a categorical no. Never have. I don''t think I have what it takes on any count and I''ve never been interested in taking anything out only putting stuff in.Don''t know where any of that nonsense ever came from but it certainly wasn''t from me.

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To clarify the point on where such a director may come from, if you reread the press release you will see that it says:

“With such a large number of members in the Trust, the board would find it impossible to ignore the voice of fans. Almost certainly, from that size of membership, there should emerge suitable candidates with the necessary business experience to become a valuable member of the football club board and an important spokesperson for grass roots fans"

 

so the director would be a member of the Trust, and as such would presumably have to attend the Trust Board''s meetings to maintain the link.

Whether it is an existing member of the Trust or a future one probably depends on how soon they get their way.

 

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/quote

To clarify the point on where such a director may come from, if you reread the press release you will see that it says:

“With such a large number of members in the Trust, the board would find it impossible to ignore the voice of fans. Almost certainly, from that size of membership, there should emerge suitable candidates with the necessary business experience to become a valuable member of the football club board and an important spokesperson for grass roots fans"

 

so the director would be a member of the Trust, and as such would presumably have to attend the Trust Board''s meetings to maintain the link.

Whether it is an existing member of the Trust or a future one probably depends on how soon they get their way.

 

/quoteThe trouble is, however good and experienced the ''fan''s Director'' was, they would be on a hiding to nothing.Anyone who has ever sat on a Board (or even certain Committees) will know that, by the nature of things, 90% or more of what is being discussed will be confidential and therefore any reporting back to the sponsoring organisation will be a repeat of bland press statements agreed by ''The Management''.After all, Board discussions about investment, management accounts, strategic planning or potential transfer targets could not be passed on to the public without running the risk of either mass panic (''we''ve had a bad month for cash flow..''.) or compromising other actions(''oh, Norwich are after Smith, we had better jump in quickly with an offer...''). Additionally, as a Plc, you are bound by certain rules about what may be disclosed to whom and when.Don''t forget, also, that if it comes to the crunch, the majority shareholders have the ultimate voting power....The upshot is that, whilst it would be great to think that we, as fans, could have an influence on the crucial decisions affecting our club, anybody, however good and well meaning, accepting a fan''s directorship would, I suspect, be accused of selling out, not representing their electorate etc etc.I don''t mean to pour cold water on the principle because I believe it is something that we should aim for- I am just saying that, for it to work, there would have to be a huge amount of goodwill and trust towards the nominee and I just wonder whether, as a body, we fans are mature enough to grant this.Anybody care to guess who would be the first keyboard warriors to start slinging mud?

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Sorry Face, I didn''t express myself very clearly. I meant that to my knowledge none of the board members of the Trust see themselves as ''that'' fan.Yelverton, everything you''ve said there has always been what caused me to be cautious about the whole fan on the Board scheme. I''ve always been keen on the Supporters Direct movement in theory but putting it into practice is a whole different ball game. Many European clubs have been able to go down this route though, and as football searches for its soul again it seems that more and more British clubs are finding ways to make this happen either because they need finance and the fans as a concerted voice can offer that, or because they just need to reconnect.There is that elephant in the room though that means whoever the fan is, they''d have to possess an incredibly thick skin and be prepared to have no mates for their tenure as well as being able to bear the burden of directorship of a plc! It will always be a compromise of sorts but so long as the goodwill was there from all sides it could be that the positivity and acuity brought to the table would outweigh the need for compromise.

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Ooops - last line should read "outweigh the negatives of compromise."My fingers got carried away!

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LQ, whilst there must be, among the fanbase, people who would fit the criteria, I think we would steuggle to flush them out!It might be fun to put together the required attributes and see who is prepared to claim they possess them!!!Here''s a starter:Experience of sitting on a Company BoardBusiness/ financial acumenPreferably experienced in football management/administration (no, not that sort!)Hide like a rhinocerousSilver tongued excellent communicatorDynamic and forcefulAble to straddle fences with alacrity (painful [:''(] ).......Possess no skeletons in the cupboard

Feel free to add to the list!! 

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Again, you''re right. Finding one person who can add all that to the table would be nigh on impossible.However, if we split the difference and say, look for someone for the footballing role from outside the regular fanbase, perhaps even someone like Dion for example, that makes the other criteria more achievable.Now neither you nor I have been around here for long, but from reading your posts I''m guessing you fit many of them. If I can see that from here then why shouldn''t there be more out there who would want to contribute to this for the right reasons?(nothing I enjoy more than a little bit of hypothosising [;)] )

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[quote user="Yelverton Yella"]LQ, whilst there must be, among the fanbase, people who would fit the criteria, I think we would steuggle to flush them out!

It might be fun to put together the required attributes and see who is prepared to claim they possess them!!!

Here''s a starter:

Experience of sitting on a Company Board

Business/ financial acumen

Preferably experienced in football management/administration (no, not that sort!)

Hide like a rhinocerous

Silver tongued excellent communicator

Dynamic and forceful

Able to straddle fences with alacrity (painful [:''(] ).......

Possess no skeletons in the cupboard


Feel free to add to the list!!

 
[/quote]

and NO Mr Doncaster there is no point in you applying ............................!!

 

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I''m flattered that you think I have the rhino hide  [:^)]  but I don''t think I could put up with the inevitable negativity that would accompany the role. I find it hard enough sometimes to keep my temper when reading the posts on here without putting up with personal abuse on a daily basis- because I am 99% sure that would be the outcome.The idea of someone like Dion (or Hux?) as a proxy for the fans is interesting though. Most of us are only interested in the commercial aspects of the club to the extent that it continues to fund the playing side to an adequate level and, arguably, without a very large investment in the club, a Fan''s Director is only going to have a peripheral impact on the real business decisions. To have a genuine football person contributing around the Board table on the fan''s behalf might just stop the more nonsensical decisions on Manager and player recruitment and peripheral activities that have brought us to where we are now. It reminds me of a CEO I had once who would relate any requests for cash investment back to basics..''.Yes, but how many extra boxes of crisps will you have to sell to pay for your fancy  brochure?'' and he would actually make the proposer go away and work it out....a salutary lesson that!

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Don''t take it personally [;)]My initial thought was Hux in this role but we seem to have him doing just about everything bar finding a cure for hayfever and I''d rather see him at Colney in some capacity, just for the inspirational boost if nothing else.Dion does hold the club in high regard though and having been through the football mill I can''t think of many others I''d put my faith in 100%.I like the sound of your CEO. The best one I ever had used to say (at sometimes inappropriate points during dull board meetings) "you don''t buy a dog and bark yourself". Then again, he also said quite a bit I couldn''t repeat on here!

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[quote user="The Judge"]

[quote user="Yelverton Yella"]LQ, whilst there must be, among the fanbase, people who would fit the criteria, I think we would steuggle to flush them out!

It might be fun to put together the required attributes and see who is prepared to claim they possess them!!!

Here''s a starter:

Experience of sitting on a Company Board

Business/ financial acumen

Preferably experienced in football management/administration (no, not that sort!)

Hide like a rhinocerous

Silver tongued excellent communicator

Dynamic and forceful

Able to straddle fences with alacrity (painful [:''(] ).......

Possess no skeletons in the cupboard


Feel free to add to the list!!

 
[/quote]

and NO Mr Doncaster there is no point in you applying ............................!!

 

[/quote]

 

If that person does exist would he not be a candidate for the board even if he or she was on the supporters trust?Where a supporters elected rep does work tends to be in clubs where the share ownership is much more evenly distributed. An example often given is Barcelona where the club president is elected by club members who own the club.

I''m not convinced it would work in our current ownership situation for all the reasons detailed by previous posters, and the clubs Ltd company status only makes the position more difficult.

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IF the Pinnacle Group takes over Southampton then Le Tissier will be chairman. Is that a

hard-headed decision based on his business acumen or window-dressing to win

over the fans?

There is a case for a director of football, but I would be very wary of the job

going to a recent “legend”. Better a mature Rioch-like figure obviously picked

for their abilities.

As to the latest in the cautionary tale that is Southampton.

Over the weekend Le Tissier said the hope was for a deal by tomorrow, now the

doomed fight against the 10-point penalty had been abandoned. However talks are

going on with two other groups, and today the local paper says a fourth

consortium is poised to join the fun.

So what is a poor administrator to do? Plump for Pinnacle under time pressure when

one of these other three might be better?

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You say that about Rioch but wasn''t Dave Stringer party to the much maligned managerial appointments that have left us where we are now?No, sorry. The game has changed and someone a bit closer to the action, for want of a better phrase, would suit me.

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