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JuanVelasco

Keep up the good work Gunn, I believe.

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Yes thats right, I have complete faith. I am judging Gunn on his signings and his signings only, and for pre season this will be my instinct. For the first 8 weeks of the season I will judge the players on the pitch at home and away. Unlike a certain habitual pessimist that causes so much controversy on here and probably catches no more than 10 games a year.

I am extremely happy with the situation thus far with the rebuilding of the squad. In terms of Gunns actions, I cant find a negative, although he still has a long way to go. So far every piece of business has been a positive, and I will seek to justify this below.

Robert Eagle Out - Nice bloke, rubbish footballer. Rated by Roeder and nobody else, Gunn - just like everybody else - realised that Eagle wasnt going to be good enough for league one yet alone the championship. Thus, good luck Robert but your not what we are looking for. Verdict:- Spot on with this one Gunny 10/10.

Mark Fotheringham Out - Another player rated highly by Roeder but not by the fans, although rather oddly rated highly by almost every footballer in management - well, at least the ones that type ''Fotheringham'' into youtube. To be fair, he wasnt all that bad, and was probably made a scapegoat. But I know how much he was on per week and I know that it was a hell of a lot of money, he also upset the fans so Gunn had no choice but to banish from the club. Verdict:- The fans and Fozzy pretty much made the decision, so no decent Gunn Rating here, but he was still pants so 7/10.

David Marshall Out - A pretty passionless goalkeeper who obviously didnt really want to be here. Not a bad keeper, but certainly not as good as he would like us to believe. The third choice Scottish Keeper certainly didnt fool the former second choice Scottish Keeper, Gunn took the 500k and ran. Verdict:- Good decision to get rid of one of the many passionless journeymen at this club, and good money too, however I will have to see the replacement before making judgement. Score:- N/A/10

Cody McDonald In - My new favourite player, the only exciting attacker in our squad, so much passion that Green gunge spews out of all of his orafice. He might not live up to expectation, but I would put my money on him doing fantastically. Bound to be a fan favourite, and bound to be loyal to Gunn too after quitting his job as a scaffolder. Verdict:- 8/10 fantastic bargain buy for 25k, and in my opinion as good as a young Leon McKenzie (who was of course sold for £1.25m)

Matty Gill In - I cant judge this one really, but Leyton Orient fans believe that he is quality, and I will take their word for it. The last time we signed a little known centre midfielder from the division it worked out just fine. His brother also used to teach my best mate tennis in Norwich which is of course irrelevant. Verdict:- Too early to judge really, but im giving this a 7/10 just because he replaced a departing toddler.

Owain Tudor Jones - What can I say, looks like a quality signing, a real physical presence and a battler. I have always rated this bloke and could be our next Damien Francis. Being a Welsh international is of course irrelevant, as anybody with two legs and welsh in their bloodline can get caps (see Carl Robinson). Being 6 ft 4 in and built like a brick sh*thouse is very relevant, and we have missed that physical presence in the middle of the park since Dickson Etuhu left (well, when he could be bothered to turn up). Verdict: 9/10 for realising that the pansy Russell and the overweight Pattison were not going to be good enough to for us next year.

So far so good in my opinion, about another 4 to leave and another 12 to arrive and I will be happy. Real progress is being made, to have two good signings in place with 15 days until the transfer window is a good start, im really happy with the type of player coming in and the type of player being disposed of. I would like to see the back of Daryl Russell for a start.

The Revolution has begun, arise Sir Bryan to lead us forth onto the muddy battlefields of league one with brave new warriors, and lets us be successful in our quest to be victorious and to claim back the state of East Anglia.

 

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Not so sure I am ready to start lavishing Gunn with praise yet, but the green shoots are there (although at the time I felt they were with Grant and Roeder). 

I think I will reserve judgement on the two new signings (who I must admit I had not heard of) until I have seen them play a few times.

That said at least we are signing players before pre-season starts!!!

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I agree that Gunn appears to be making some of the right moves in the transfer market although again i will also reserve judgment until i''ve seen the new players play. I think we are now just a GK, target man and right winger (with some pace) away from a decent looking league 1 squad if there are no more than a couple more departures. To be honest i disagree with the comments above about Russell and Pattison because I think that both could actually be very good indeed at this level and. particularly if Clingan leaves, i hope that Gunn can see that at least one of them is here and rediscovers his form next season. I also think it could be really important to keep Hoolahan for that little bit of creativity.

Transfers have never been my worry with Gunn to be honest. In many ways he has just made common sense decisions that most of us would have made. hopefully he has supplemented that by finding a couple of gems in OTR and Gill.

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Puting last season aside, which is difficult to do, judging on current players in i think you can only give credit.

I personally wouldn''t have had Gunn this season and would have got someone else in. I think he had enough games to turn it around even though it wasn''t his team he inherited.

However, he''s here and that isn''t going to change. So with a clean slate, the players he is getting in i believe are the correct ones. I know some people on this board are going "Who?" every time we sign a player, but you have to be realistic about the situation. We can''t afford to sign Championship quality players, so we have to sign players who will do a good job in this league and that means finding players who maybe have done a job for another team in this league and who may be able to step up to the Chamionship with a bit of improvement or young improving league two/conference players. I believe so far the players we have in match this criteria and hopefully this will continue.

Basically i think Gunn''s performance in the transfer market thus far is very good. No one can tell how a player will do. Look at Forlan at Man U where he couldn''t hit a barn door but he goes to Spain and gets a hatful and is suddenly worth a stack as a player. Some settle, some don''t and you can''t tell in advance, but just looking on the face of things, it''s all good!

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hahaha and you would of been one of the many prats that lavished praise on the likes of Robert Eagle, Daryl Russell, Fotheringham and Marshall no doubt??? [:$]

Downgrading for a mid to lower table finish in Div 3 with the clowns lapping it up like usual.... you really do deserve a team that will be in a relegation battle again this year. 

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[quote user="Smudger"]

hahaha and you would of been one of the many prats that lavished praise on the likes of Robert Eagle, Daryl Russell, Fotheringham and Marshall no doubt??? [:$]

Downgrading for a mid to lower table finish in Div 3 with the clowns lapping it up like usual.... you really do deserve a team that will be in a relegation battle again this year. 

[/quote]

Stop listening to the imaginary voices in your head Smudger, I have never heard anybody praise Robert Eagle and people certainly werent praising Mark Fotheringham last season.

But its ok, I understand, you live in a completely different transparent world and are a manager in a print shop. Whilst Norwich are playing at Carrow Road and you are printing leaflets, safe from the brainwashing by Delia, it is obvious that you are going to have much more sound basis upon which to criticise the players that you hardly ever watch and the fans that you hardly ever sit with.

Of course, I am probably just another conspiracy theory, planted by Delia and her husband to help brainwash the fans of the club into giving money - which Delia syphons away into Swiss bank accounts.

Seriously man get a grip on yourself, 95% of people think that you have serious issues, go and get yourself some counselling or something.

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The thing with Gunn is that his player aquisitions are fairly astute in

theory. Carney, Gow, Killen, Lee, and supposing he was behind some of

Roeders aquisitions as chief scout, he''s honestly quite good at

spotting players that ''should'' do well for us. And for the time Gunn

was not chief scout in Roeders reigime, we brought in some brilliant

players as well.Only problem is in practice it just doesn''t

work for us pitch, be it for bad management from the staff, or bad attitude

on the players behalf.When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan,

Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in

dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above

''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade. Admittedly some

would be lacking in a few aspects, like physique, but at their utmost

best they could all cut it in the Premier League, of that i''m sure.However,

as we were to find out, they were utterly hopeless for us on the

''pitch'' last season (bar Clingan, and some snippets of good

performances from various other players). Thats why Roeder failed, and indeed the reason also why Gunn failed, and why he''ll never cut it as a manager.Theoretically

he gives the impression he knows what he''s doing, but like Roeder, his

management ability is far from impressive when put into practice.And

that, i''m sorry to say (and i honestly don''t take pleasure in saying

this at all), is why we will never be promoted, or indeed experience 1,

sole, reasonably successful with him as manager.It hurts, but

we''re stuck down here in League One until we find an owner who can

supply what would at least be an OK manager with a decent budget, or we

find a man who can work miracles with shoestring budgets, as we

"continue to cut our cloth accordingly".

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

Yes thats right, I have complete faith. I am judging Gunn on his signings and his signings only, and for pre season this will be my instinct. For the first 8 weeks of the season I will judge the players on the pitch at home and away. Unlike a certain habitual pessimist that causes so much controversy on here and probably catches no more than 10 games a year.

I am extremely happy with the situation thus far with the rebuilding of the squad. In terms of Gunns actions, I cant find a negative, although he still has a long way to go. So far every piece of business has been a positive, and I will seek to justify this below.

Robert Eagle Out - Nice bloke, rubbish footballer. Rated by Roeder and nobody else, Gunn - just like everybody else - realised that Eagle wasnt going to be good enough for league one yet alone the championship. Thus, good luck Robert but your not what we are looking for. Verdict:- Spot on with this one Gunny 10/10.

Mark Fotheringham Out - Another player rated highly by Roeder but not by the fans, although rather oddly rated highly by almost every footballer in management - well, at least the ones that type ''Fotheringham'' into youtube. To be fair, he wasnt all that bad, and was probably made a scapegoat. But I know how much he was on per week and I know that it was a hell of a lot of money, he also upset the fans so Gunn had no choice but to banish from the club. Verdict:- The fans and Fozzy pretty much made the decision, so no decent Gunn Rating here, but he was still pants so 7/10.

David Marshall Out - A pretty passionless goalkeeper who obviously didnt really want to be here. Not a bad keeper, but certainly not as good as he would like us to believe. The third choice Scottish Keeper certainly didnt fool the former second choice Scottish Keeper, Gunn took the 500k and ran. Verdict:- Good decision to get rid of one of the many passionless journeymen at this club, and good money too, however I will have to see the replacement before making judgement. Score:- N/A/10

Cody McDonald In - My new favourite player, the only exciting attacker in our squad, so much passion that Green gunge spews out of all of his orafice. He might not live up to expectation, but I would put my money on him doing fantastically. Bound to be a fan favourite, and bound to be loyal to Gunn too after quitting his job as a scaffolder. Verdict:- 8/10 fantastic bargain buy for 25k, and in my opinion as good as a young Leon McKenzie (who was of course sold for £1.25m)

Matty Gill In - I cant judge this one really, but Leyton Orient fans believe that he is quality, and I will take their word for it. The last time we signed a little known centre midfielder from the division it worked out just fine. His brother also used to teach my best mate tennis in Norwich which is of course irrelevant. Verdict:- Too early to judge really, but im giving this a 7/10 just because he replaced a departing toddler.

Owain Tudor Jones - What can I say, looks like a quality signing, a real physical presence and a battler. I have always rated this bloke and could be our next Damien Francis. Being a Welsh international is of course irrelevant, as anybody with two legs and welsh in their bloodline can get caps (see Carl Robinson). Being 6 ft 4 in and built like a brick sh*thouse is very relevant, and we have missed that physical presence in the middle of the park since Dickson Etuhu left (well, when he could be bothered to turn up). Verdict: 9/10 for realising that the pansy Russell and the overweight Pattison were not going to be good enough to for us next year.

So far so good in my opinion, about another 4 to leave and another 12 to arrive and I will be happy. Real progress is being made, to have two good signings in place with 15 days until the transfer window is a good start, im really happy with the type of player coming in and the type of player being disposed of. I would like to see the back of Daryl Russell for a start.

The Revolution has begun, arise Sir Bryan to lead us forth onto the muddy battlefields of league one with brave new warriors, and lets us be successful in our quest to be victorious and to claim back the state of East Anglia.

 

[/quote]

Gunn was chief Scout for Roeder!!!! what you on about....!!! I do however think the first 3 signings of his campaign are good, but keeping the faith, needs to be there first to keep it!

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[quote user="John"]
When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above ''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade.[/quote]

You lost me at this bit John. Did you miss the play off season, the promotion season, and the year that we almost stayed up? David Bell and Wes Hoolohan cant be placed anywhere near the Paul McVeigh that we had for a couple of seasons, or the Darren Huckerby that we had. Stefanovic is no Malky Mackay, Clingan isnt really any better than Safri or Francis, he just seems it because hes playing in a much weaker team than them, Kennedy has played about 20 games in his entire career at 26.......

Since that decade also includes Dean Ashton, Robert Earnshaw, Robert Green, Steen Nedergaard, Darren Eadie (just), Keith O''Neill, Iwan Roberts, Peter Crouch.............  I just cant comprehend how Bell, Hoolohan, Stefanovic and Kennedy can be compared in terms of being "a class above almost every player we have had"........ I just dont think you know what you are talking about, either that or you are just blind.

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[quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

Yes thats right, I have complete faith. I am judging Gunn on his signings and his signings only, and for pre season this will be my instinct. For the first 8 weeks of the season I will judge the players on the pitch at home and away. Unlike a certain habitual pessimist that causes so much controversy on here and probably catches no more than 10 games a year.

I am extremely happy with the situation thus far with the rebuilding of the squad. In terms of Gunns actions, I cant find a negative, although he still has a long way to go. So far every piece of business has been a positive, and I will seek to justify this below.

Robert Eagle Out - Nice bloke, rubbish footballer. Rated by Roeder and nobody else, Gunn - just like everybody else - realised that Eagle wasnt going to be good enough for league one yet alone the championship. Thus, good luck Robert but your not what we are looking for. Verdict:- Spot on with this one Gunny 10/10.

Mark Fotheringham Out - Another player rated highly by Roeder but not by the fans, although rather oddly rated highly by almost every footballer in management - well, at least the ones that type ''Fotheringham'' into youtube. To be fair, he wasnt all that bad, and was probably made a scapegoat. But I know how much he was on per week and I know that it was a hell of a lot of money, he also upset the fans so Gunn had no choice but to banish from the club. Verdict:- The fans and Fozzy pretty much made the decision, so no decent Gunn Rating here, but he was still pants so 7/10.

David Marshall Out - A pretty passionless goalkeeper who obviously didnt really want to be here. Not a bad keeper, but certainly not as good as he would like us to believe. The third choice Scottish Keeper certainly didnt fool the former second choice Scottish Keeper, Gunn took the 500k and ran. Verdict:- Good decision to get rid of one of the many passionless journeymen at this club, and good money too, however I will have to see the replacement before making judgement. Score:- N/A/10

Cody McDonald In - My new favourite player, the only exciting attacker in our squad, so much passion that Green gunge spews out of all of his orafice. He might not live up to expectation, but I would put my money on him doing fantastically. Bound to be a fan favourite, and bound to be loyal to Gunn too after quitting his job as a scaffolder. Verdict:- 8/10 fantastic bargain buy for 25k, and in my opinion as good as a young Leon McKenzie (who was of course sold for £1.25m)

Matty Gill In - I cant judge this one really, but Leyton Orient fans believe that he is quality, and I will take their word for it. The last time we signed a little known centre midfielder from the division it worked out just fine. His brother also used to teach my best mate tennis in Norwich which is of course irrelevant. Verdict:- Too early to judge really, but im giving this a 7/10 just because he replaced a departing toddler.

Owain Tudor Jones - What can I say, looks like a quality signing, a real physical presence and a battler. I have always rated this bloke and could be our next Damien Francis. Being a Welsh international is of course irrelevant, as anybody with two legs and welsh in their bloodline can get caps (see Carl Robinson). Being 6 ft 4 in and built like a brick sh*thouse is very relevant, and we have missed that physical presence in the middle of the park since Dickson Etuhu left (well, when he could be bothered to turn up). Verdict: 9/10 for realising that the pansy Russell and the overweight Pattison were not going to be good enough to for us next year.

So far so good in my opinion, about another 4 to leave and another 12 to arrive and I will be happy. Real progress is being made, to have two good signings in place with 15 days until the transfer window is a good start, im really happy with the type of player coming in and the type of player being disposed of. I would like to see the back of Daryl Russell for a start.

The Revolution has begun, arise Sir Bryan to lead us forth onto the muddy battlefields of league one with brave new warriors, and lets us be successful in our quest to be victorious and to claim back the state of East Anglia.

 

[/quote]

Gunn was chief Scout for Roeder!!!! what you on about....!!!
I do however think the first 3 signings of his campaign are good, but keeping the faith, needs to be there first to keep it!
[/quote]

Oh and Roeder signed players because of Gunns recommendation did he? Because Gunn would have released Huckerby, put Cureton out on loan to Barnsley?  It was Gunn''s links with Arsenal that brought us Keiron Gibbs?  It was Gunns history of working in London that brought us Koromo (Harry Redknapp, who Roeder once worked for), Henville-Archibald (london link), Elliott Omnuszi (london link), Antoine Sibierski (Roeders former player), Dejan Stefanovic (that old london link again).

Why dont you educate yourself in the role of a chief scout, and the role of the football manager. Come back and tell me who instructs who, and who makes the final decision. Obviously you dont need me to tell you that Gunn was an employee of Roeders, and thus scouted players that Roeder wanted him to scout, and you also dont need me to tell you that Roeder would make a decision as to whether or not to sign a player.

Gunn:-  "Oh gaffer, I''ve found a player, a real gem e''is"

Roeder:-  "Who"

Gunn:- "His name is Antoine Siberski, plays for JJB united or something".

 

Give it a rest pal, you understand who it was the destroyed our squad, the sooner you get over this grudge the better.

 

 

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="John"]When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above ''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade.[/quote]

You lost me at this bit John. Did you miss the play off season, the promotion season, and the year that we almost stayed up? David Bell and Wes Hoolohan cant be placed anywhere near the Paul McVeigh that we had for a couple of seasons, or the Darren Huckerby that we had. Stefanovic is no Malky Mackay, Clingan isnt really any better than Safri or Francis, he just seems it because hes playing in a much weaker team than them, Kennedy has played about 20 games in his entire career at 26.......

Since that decade also includes Dean Ashton, Robert Earnshaw, Robert Green, Steen Nedergaard, Darren Eadie (just), Keith O''Neill, Iwan Roberts, Peter Crouch.............  I just cant comprehend how Bell, Hoolohan, Stefanovic and Kennedy can be compared in terms of being "a class above almost every player we have had"........ I just dont think you know what you are talking about, either that or you are just blind.

[/quote]You''ve mentioned some very good players Juan, but i personally feel that the one''s Roeder brought in had a massive abundance of talent, and on those terms, i feel they were as good as any that we''ve had. The problem with them is that they were missing vital elements of their game, and thats why they couldn''t cut it, be it power and physique, age or attitude.For example we have Malky Mackay (of course Stefanovic was no Malky, but with about 190 Premier League games amongst performances in various other highly thought of competitions under his belt, i think he''s a man who''s proven himself to be of value in football). Malky had passion that was clear for all to see, technically not superior, but was a man willing to do his job week in week out, and was entirely solid in the process.Players like Hoolahan and Bell were on a different level to most players in the Championship, in a technical aspect, with that i have no doubt, however their attitude to perform was poor (some may blame it on the pressures of the crowd, or others, apathy), and they were physically weak and small in comparison to the majority of players in the division (this would be because neither of them had really competed in this type of league in the past, therefore it was a matter of adjusting, and in this respect i''m not convnced they were willing to). This collectively renedered them almost useless for us in the Championship.Roeder and Gunn have bought players that had excelling attributes, the only problem is that they were not dynamic enough in their game to support those impressive, but with it, almost isolated, abilities.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="John"]
When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above ''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade.[/quote]

You lost me at this bit John. Did you miss the play off season, the promotion season, and the year that we almost stayed up? David Bell and Wes Hoolohan cant be placed anywhere near the Paul McVeigh that we had for a couple of seasons, or the Darren Huckerby that we had. Stefanovic is no Malky Mackay, Clingan isnt really any better than Safri or Francis, he just seems it because hes playing in a much weaker team than them, Kennedy has played about 20 games in his entire career at 26.......

Since that decade also includes Dean Ashton, Robert Earnshaw, Robert Green, Steen Nedergaard, Darren Eadie (just), Keith O''Neill, Iwan Roberts, Peter Crouch.............  I just cant comprehend how Bell, Hoolohan, Stefanovic and Kennedy can be compared in terms of being "a class above almost every player we have had"........ I just dont think you know what you are talking about, either that or you are just blind.

[/quote]

You''ve mentioned some very good players Juan, but i personally feel that the one''s Roeder brought in had a massive abundance of talent, and on those terms, i feel they were as good as any that we''ve had. The problem with them is that they were missing vital elements of their game, and thats why they couldn''t cut it, be it power and physique, age or attitude.

For example we have Malky Mackay (of course Stefanovic was no Malky, but with about 190 Premier League games amongst performances in various other highly thought of competitions under his belt, i think he''s a man who''s proven himself to be of value in football). Malky had passion that was clear for all to see, technically not superior, but was a man willing to do his job week in week out, and was entirely solid in the process.

Players like Hoolahan and Bell were on a different level to most players in the Championship, in a technical aspect, with that i have no doubt, however their attitude to perform was poor (some may blame it on the pressures of the crowd, or others, apathy), and they were physically weak and small in comparison to the majority of players in the division (this would be because neither of them had really competed in this type of league in the past, therefore it was a matter of adjusting, and in this respect i''m not convnced they were willing to). This collectively renedered them almost useless for us in the Championship.

Roeder and Gunn have bought players that had excelling attributes, the only problem is that they were not dynamic enough in their game to support those impressive, but with it, almost isolated, abilities.
[/quote]

I appreciate what you are saying about Dejan Stefanovic, and that signing was unlucky. Although I feel that his signing, along with Kennedys, needs to be put in context. Roeder chose to sell Jason Shackell and replace him with a 33 year old and a player than was destined to get injured before he had even stepped on the pitch. That was a formula that was doomed from the start, and I wasnt one of those that celebrated Shackells departure. I believe that we could have stayed up had we kept Shackell. We wouldnt have been playing Adam Drury or Elliott Omnuzsi at centre back for a start. I genuinely dont consider Dejan Stefanovic as a class above Jason Shackell, I consider them pretty equal, only one could have been a Norwich City player for 10 years or more and the other has a very limited shelf life.

I also agree that Hoolohan has a lot of talent, it is just a shame that Roeder didnt know how to play him. The best football that Hoolohan played for Norwich came under Gunn, who knew how to utilise him - and that was another very unfortunate injury for the club. Hoolohan was a very good signing, but I cant see how Hoolohans technical ability supparsed Darren Huckerbys. In fact, Darrens last 10 games in the season prior were bettered by only one other player - Ched Evans...

As for David Bell, personally I think that he is massively over rated, and he hasnt exactly set the world alight at Coventry either - except when playing us - he was an improvement on Lee Croft, but look where not offering Croft a contract as a consequence has got us. I dont even need to talk about Clingan, as we had a terrible centre mid before his arrival. But to conclude, that is three good signings in my opinion - Clingan, Hoolohan and Stefanovic.

What about the massive influx of sub standard players? Omnuszi was even worse than Otsemober, Nelson looks like a sunday league player in the reserves, Henville-Archibald and Koromo were not even ready for football, Keiron Gibbs was far too young, Matty Pattison cost us £500k??  He was hardly an improvement on what we had, and has the technical ability of my nan, James Henry was awful, I dont even need to mention Sibierski who was one of the worst strikers I have seen play for city.

Personally I think that two of his good signings were brought into replace people that were at least as good in terms of technical ability, Shackell has got one of the best first touches I have seen in a non premiership centre back and Huckerby still had at least a year left in him. Sammy Clingan was of course a quality signing.

But we are talking about 20+ Glen Roeder signings and only three or four that stand out technically. Every club in the championship has talented players with technical ability. The only player that Roeder signed that would be guarenteed a place in any championship team is Sammy Clingan, the only other player who any manager would take into a championship squad is Wes Hoolohan.

 

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="John"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="John"]When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above ''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade.[/quote]

You lost me at this bit John. Did you miss the play off season, the promotion season, and the year that we almost stayed up? David Bell and Wes Hoolohan cant be placed anywhere near the Paul McVeigh that we had for a couple of seasons, or the Darren Huckerby that we had. Stefanovic is no Malky Mackay, Clingan isnt really any better than Safri or Francis, he just seems it because hes playing in a much weaker team than them, Kennedy has played about 20 games in his entire career at 26.......

Since that decade also includes Dean Ashton, Robert Earnshaw, Robert Green, Steen Nedergaard, Darren Eadie (just), Keith O''Neill, Iwan Roberts, Peter Crouch.............  I just cant comprehend how Bell, Hoolohan, Stefanovic and Kennedy can be compared in terms of being "a class above almost every player we have had"........ I just dont think you know what you are talking about, either that or you are just blind.

[/quote]You''ve mentioned some very good players Juan, but i personally feel that the one''s Roeder brought in had a massive abundance of talent, and on those terms, i feel they were as good as any that we''ve had. The problem with them is that they were missing vital elements of their game, and thats why they couldn''t cut it, be it power and physique, age or attitude.For example we have Malky Mackay (of course Stefanovic was no Malky, but with about 190 Premier League games amongst performances in various other highly thought of competitions under his belt, i think he''s a man who''s proven himself to be of value in football). Malky had passion that was clear for all to see, technically not superior, but was a man willing to do his job week in week out, and was entirely solid in the process.Players like Hoolahan and Bell were on a different level to most players in the Championship, in a technical aspect, with that i have no doubt, however their attitude to perform was poor (some may blame it on the pressures of the crowd, or others, apathy), and they were physically weak and small in comparison to the majority of players in the division (this would be because neither of them had really competed in this type of league in the past, therefore it was a matter of adjusting, and in this respect i''m not convnced they were willing to). This collectively renedered them almost useless for us in the Championship.Roeder and Gunn have bought players that had excelling attributes, the only problem is that they were not dynamic enough in their game to support those impressive, but with it, almost isolated, abilities.[/quote]

I appreciate what you are saying about Dejan Stefanovic, and that signing was unlucky. Although I feel that his signing, along with Kennedys, needs to be put in context. Roeder chose to sell Jason Shackell and replace him with a 33 year old and a player than was destined to get injured before he had even stepped on the pitch. That was a formula that was doomed from the start, and I wasnt one of those that celebrated Shackells departure. I believe that we could have stayed up had we kept Shackell. We wouldnt have been playing Adam Drury or Elliott Omnuzsi at centre back for a start. I genuinely dont consider Dejan Stefanovic as a class above Jason Shackell, I consider them pretty equal, only one could have been a Norwich City player for 10 years or more and the other has a very limited shelf life.

I also agree that Hoolohan has a lot of talent, it is just a shame that Roeder didnt know how to play him. The best football that Hoolohan played for Norwich came under Gunn, who knew how to utilise him - and that was another very unfortunate injury for the club. Hoolohan was a very good signing, but I cant see how Hoolohans technical ability supparsed Darren Huckerbys. In fact, Darrens last 10 games in the season prior were bettered by only one other player - Ched Evans...

As for David Bell, personally I think that he is massively over rated, and he hasnt exactly set the world alight at Coventry either - except when playing us - he was an improvement on Lee Croft, but look where not offering Croft a contract as a consequence has got us. I dont even need to talk about Clingan, as we had a terrible centre mid before his arrival. But to conclude, that is three good signings in my opinion - Clingan, Hoolohan and Stefanovic.

What about the massive influx of sub standard players? Omnuszi was even worse than Otsemober, Nelson looks like a sunday league player in the reserves, Henville-Archibald and Koromo were not even ready for football, Keiron Gibbs was far too young, Matty Pattison cost us £500k??  He was hardly an improvement on what we had, and has the technical ability of my nan, James Henry was awful, I dont even need to mention Sibierski who was one of the worst strikers I have seen play for city.

Personally I think that two of his good signings were brought into replace people that were at least as good in terms of technical ability, Shackell has got one of the best first touches I have seen in a non premiership centre back and Huckerby still had at least a year left in him. Sammy Clingan was of course a quality signing.

But we are talking about 20+ Glen Roeder signings and only three or four that stand out technically. Every club in the championship has talented players with technical ability. The only player that Roeder signed that would be guarenteed a place in any championship team is Sammy Clingan, the only other player who any manager would take into a championship squad is Wes Hoolohan.

 

[/quote]I think it''s just a case of us seeing and interpreting things on the pitch differently Juan.I''m willing to just agree to disagree on this occasion [Y]

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[quote user="John"][quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="John"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="John"]
When we brought in Bell, Hoolahan, Clingan, and Stefanovic, with Kennedy on loan last season i was in dreamland. The talent in those players, individually, is a class above ''almost'' every player we''ve had for about a decade.[/quote]

You lost me at this bit John. Did you miss the play off season, the promotion season, and the year that we almost stayed up? David Bell and Wes Hoolohan cant be placed anywhere near the Paul McVeigh that we had for a couple of seasons, or the Darren Huckerby that we had. Stefanovic is no Malky Mackay, Clingan isnt really any better than Safri or Francis, he just seems it because hes playing in a much weaker team than them, Kennedy has played about 20 games in his entire career at 26.......

Since that decade also includes Dean Ashton, Robert Earnshaw, Robert Green, Steen Nedergaard, Darren Eadie (just), Keith O''Neill, Iwan Roberts, Peter Crouch.............  I just cant comprehend how Bell, Hoolohan, Stefanovic and Kennedy can be compared in terms of being "a class above almost every player we have had"........ I just dont think you know what you are talking about, either that or you are just blind.

[/quote]

You''ve mentioned some very good players Juan, but i personally feel that the one''s Roeder brought in had a massive abundance of talent, and on those terms, i feel they were as good as any that we''ve had. The problem with them is that they were missing vital elements of their game, and thats why they couldn''t cut it, be it power and physique, age or attitude.

For example we have Malky Mackay (of course Stefanovic was no Malky, but with about 190 Premier League games amongst performances in various other highly thought of competitions under his belt, i think he''s a man who''s proven himself to be of value in football). Malky had passion that was clear for all to see, technically not superior, but was a man willing to do his job week in week out, and was entirely solid in the process.

Players like Hoolahan and Bell were on a different level to most players in the Championship, in a technical aspect, with that i have no doubt, however their attitude to perform was poor (some may blame it on the pressures of the crowd, or others, apathy), and they were physically weak and small in comparison to the majority of players in the division (this would be because neither of them had really competed in this type of league in the past, therefore it was a matter of adjusting, and in this respect i''m not convnced they were willing to). This collectively renedered them almost useless for us in the Championship.

Roeder and Gunn have bought players that had excelling attributes, the only problem is that they were not dynamic enough in their game to support those impressive, but with it, almost isolated, abilities.
[/quote]

I appreciate what you are saying about Dejan Stefanovic, and that signing was unlucky. Although I feel that his signing, along with Kennedys, needs to be put in context. Roeder chose to sell Jason Shackell and replace him with a 33 year old and a player than was destined to get injured before he had even stepped on the pitch. That was a formula that was doomed from the start, and I wasnt one of those that celebrated Shackells departure. I believe that we could have stayed up had we kept Shackell. We wouldnt have been playing Adam Drury or Elliott Omnuzsi at centre back for a start. I genuinely dont consider Dejan Stefanovic as a class above Jason Shackell, I consider them pretty equal, only one could have been a Norwich City player for 10 years or more and the other has a very limited shelf life.

I also agree that Hoolohan has a lot of talent, it is just a shame that Roeder didnt know how to play him. The best football that Hoolohan played for Norwich came under Gunn, who knew how to utilise him - and that was another very unfortunate injury for the club. Hoolohan was a very good signing, but I cant see how Hoolohans technical ability supparsed Darren Huckerbys. In fact, Darrens last 10 games in the season prior were bettered by only one other player - Ched Evans...

As for David Bell, personally I think that he is massively over rated, and he hasnt exactly set the world alight at Coventry either - except when playing us - he was an improvement on Lee Croft, but look where not offering Croft a contract as a consequence has got us. I dont even need to talk about Clingan, as we had a terrible centre mid before his arrival. But to conclude, that is three good signings in my opinion - Clingan, Hoolohan and Stefanovic.

What about the massive influx of sub standard players? Omnuszi was even worse than Otsemober, Nelson looks like a sunday league player in the reserves, Henville-Archibald and Koromo were not even ready for football, Keiron Gibbs was far too young, Matty Pattison cost us £500k??  He was hardly an improvement on what we had, and has the technical ability of my nan, James Henry was awful, I dont even need to mention Sibierski who was one of the worst strikers I have seen play for city.

Personally I think that two of his good signings were brought into replace people that were at least as good in terms of technical ability, Shackell has got one of the best first touches I have seen in a non premiership centre back and Huckerby still had at least a year left in him. Sammy Clingan was of course a quality signing.

But we are talking about 20+ Glen Roeder signings and only three or four that stand out technically. Every club in the championship has talented players with technical ability. The only player that Roeder signed that would be guarenteed a place in any championship team is Sammy Clingan, the only other player who any manager would take into a championship squad is Wes Hoolohan.

 

[/quote]

I think it''s just a case of us seeing and interpreting things on the pitch differently Juan.

I''m willing to just agree to disagree on this occasion [Y]
[/quote]

There was me thinking that I agreed on quite a few of your points? but yeah agreeing to disagree on everything else is fine ;-)

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[quote user="Smudger"]

hahaha and you would of been one of the many prats that lavished praise on the likes of Robert Eagle, Daryl Russell, Fotheringham and Marshall no doubt??? [:$]

Downgrading for a mid to lower table finish in Div 3 with the clowns lapping it up like usual.... you really do deserve a team that will be in a relegation battle again this year. 

[/quote]

hahaha

Plank.

I agree with the above, take some depression tablets or something so you can cope with life and don''t end up all bitter and twisted. You seem to think you are the only true fan. Let me tell you from someone who is far more intelligent than you - You''re not.

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[quote user="canarydownunder"]What about Lee Croft, didn''t Gunn terminate his contract early
[/quote]

This makes perfect sense if Croft is not going to sign a new deal.

It saves the club 1-2 months wages but it also lets the player get a head start in the tranfer market.

 

Its also worth noting that the free agent market will start to heat up the closer we get to July 1st.

More players/managers will be back from holidays, more contracts will run out.

I am actually pleased we have signed 2 people already but I expect us to sign at least another 4-5 players!

I personally think a number of the current 1st team squad will still leave.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

Yes thats right, I have complete faith. I am judging Gunn on his signings and his signings only, and for pre season this will be my instinct. For the first 8 weeks of the season I will judge the players on the pitch at home and away. Unlike a certain habitual pessimist that causes so much controversy on here and probably catches no more than 10 games a year.

I am extremely happy with the situation thus far with the rebuilding of the squad. In terms of Gunns actions, I cant find a negative, although he still has a long way to go. So far every piece of business has been a positive, and I will seek to justify this below.

Robert Eagle Out - Nice bloke, rubbish footballer. Rated by Roeder and nobody else, Gunn - just like everybody else - realised that Eagle wasnt going to be good enough for league one yet alone the championship. Thus, good luck Robert but your not what we are looking for. Verdict:- Spot on with this one Gunny 10/10.

Mark Fotheringham Out - Another player rated highly by Roeder but not by the fans, although rather oddly rated highly by almost every footballer in management - well, at least the ones that type ''Fotheringham'' into youtube. To be fair, he wasnt all that bad, and was probably made a scapegoat. But I know how much he was on per week and I know that it was a hell of a lot of money, he also upset the fans so Gunn had no choice but to banish from the club. Verdict:- The fans and Fozzy pretty much made the decision, so no decent Gunn Rating here, but he was still pants so 7/10.

David Marshall Out - A pretty passionless goalkeeper who obviously didnt really want to be here. Not a bad keeper, but certainly not as good as he would like us to believe. The third choice Scottish Keeper certainly didnt fool the former second choice Scottish Keeper, Gunn took the 500k and ran. Verdict:- Good decision to get rid of one of the many passionless journeymen at this club, and good money too, however I will have to see the replacement before making judgement. Score:- N/A/10

Cody McDonald In - My new favourite player, the only exciting attacker in our squad, so much passion that Green gunge spews out of all of his orafice. He might not live up to expectation, but I would put my money on him doing fantastically. Bound to be a fan favourite, and bound to be loyal to Gunn too after quitting his job as a scaffolder. Verdict:- 8/10 fantastic bargain buy for 25k, and in my opinion as good as a young Leon McKenzie (who was of course sold for £1.25m)

Matty Gill In - I cant judge this one really, but Leyton Orient fans believe that he is quality, and I will take their word for it. The last time we signed a little known centre midfielder from the division it worked out just fine. His brother also used to teach my best mate tennis in Norwich which is of course irrelevant. Verdict:- Too early to judge really, but im giving this a 7/10 just because he replaced a departing toddler.

Owain Tudor Jones - What can I say, looks like a quality signing, a real physical presence and a battler. I have always rated this bloke and could be our next Damien Francis. Being a Welsh international is of course irrelevant, as anybody with two legs and welsh in their bloodline can get caps (see Carl Robinson). Being 6 ft 4 in and built like a brick sh*thouse is very relevant, and we have missed that physical presence in the middle of the park since Dickson Etuhu left (well, when he could be bothered to turn up). Verdict: 9/10 for realising that the pansy Russell and the overweight Pattison were not going to be good enough to for us next year.

So far so good in my opinion, about another 4 to leave and another 12 to arrive and I will be happy. Real progress is being made, to have two good signings in place with 15 days until the transfer window is a good start, im really happy with the type of player coming in and the type of player being disposed of. I would like to see the back of Daryl Russell for a start.

The Revolution has begun, arise Sir Bryan to lead us forth onto the muddy battlefields of league one with brave new warriors, and lets us be successful in our quest to be victorious and to claim back the state of East Anglia.

 

[/quote]Gunn was chief Scout for Roeder!!!! what you on about....!!! I do however think the first 3 signings of his campaign are good, but keeping the faith, needs to be there first to keep it![/quote]

Oh and Roeder signed players because of Gunns recommendation did he? Because Gunn would have released Huckerby, put Cureton out on loan to Barnsley?  It was Gunn''s links with Arsenal that brought us Keiron Gibbs?  It was Gunns history of working in London that brought us Koromo (Harry Redknapp, who Roeder once worked for), Henville-Archibald (london link), Elliott Omnuszi (london link), Antoine Sibierski (Roeders former player), Dejan Stefanovic (that old london link again).

Why dont you educate yourself in the role of a chief scout, and the role of the football manager. Come back and tell me who instructs who, and who makes the final decision. Obviously you dont need me to tell you that Gunn was an employee of Roeders, and thus scouted players that Roeder wanted him to scout, and you also dont need me to tell you that Roeder would make a decision as to whether or not to sign a player.

Gunn:-  "Oh gaffer, I''ve found a player, a real gem e''is"

Roeder:-  "Who"

Gunn:- "His name is Antoine Siberski, plays for JJB united or something".

 

Give it a rest pal, you understand who it was the destroyed our squad, the sooner you get over this grudge the better.

 

 

[/quote]

lets get a few things straight! 1. im not your pal! 2. 19 games 5 wins relegation, please educate me???? 3. im guessing from you mouth you sat on the board with roeder when he picked his players, as you seem to know Gunn had nothing to do with our relegation plite!i hope Gunn pulls it off, and i will be happy to eat my hat......but dont preach blindness when the facts are already steering you in the face!!!!!!

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Gunn will go down in history as the worst manager ever at Norwich , i dont think he has a clue, as he more than proved last season Kept Roeder and we may have stayed up once Gunn was appointed relegation was a certainty .

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Some excellent points Juan and I''m in agreement with pretty much all of them.I''m of the opinion had we not seen Dejan and Wes injured, it would''ve given us more of a chance of staying in the Championship. Hoolahan especially as it seemed like we were starting to pick up the pace in the relegation dogfight with 7 points from 9 at one stage. Gill and Jones are two of the better signings we can realistically make at this point. Whilst I''m gutted we''re in the third tier I do believe these two players could be very good assets for us indeed. Looking at some of Roeder''s signings (loanees or otherwise) I''m already more excited and confident about the new duo compared to how I was about the likes of Archibald whathisname and that youngster from Fulham. The key of course will be to give them time to see how they get on. But not too much time, because if things are not working out more changes will be required. But even if it doesn''t all go to plan in the first month or so the league isn''t decided in the first month, it''s decided over the course of 46 games and we''d stil have a significant portion of that to turn things around.

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[quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="CANARYCHARGE"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

Yes thats right, I have complete faith. I am judging Gunn on his signings and his signings only, and for pre season this will be my instinct. For the first 8 weeks of the season I will judge the players on the pitch at home and away. Unlike a certain habitual pessimist that causes so much controversy on here and probably catches no more than 10 games a year.

I am extremely happy with the situation thus far with the rebuilding of the squad. In terms of Gunns actions, I cant find a negative, although he still has a long way to go. So far every piece of business has been a positive, and I will seek to justify this below.

Robert Eagle Out - Nice bloke, rubbish footballer. Rated by Roeder and nobody else, Gunn - just like everybody else - realised that Eagle wasnt going to be good enough for league one yet alone the championship. Thus, good luck Robert but your not what we are looking for. Verdict:- Spot on with this one Gunny 10/10.

Mark Fotheringham Out - Another player rated highly by Roeder but not by the fans, although rather oddly rated highly by almost every footballer in management - well, at least the ones that type ''Fotheringham'' into youtube. To be fair, he wasnt all that bad, and was probably made a scapegoat. But I know how much he was on per week and I know that it was a hell of a lot of money, he also upset the fans so Gunn had no choice but to banish from the club. Verdict:- The fans and Fozzy pretty much made the decision, so no decent Gunn Rating here, but he was still pants so 7/10.

David Marshall Out - A pretty passionless goalkeeper who obviously didnt really want to be here. Not a bad keeper, but certainly not as good as he would like us to believe. The third choice Scottish Keeper certainly didnt fool the former second choice Scottish Keeper, Gunn took the 500k and ran. Verdict:- Good decision to get rid of one of the many passionless journeymen at this club, and good money too, however I will have to see the replacement before making judgement. Score:- N/A/10

Cody McDonald In - My new favourite player, the only exciting attacker in our squad, so much passion that Green gunge spews out of all of his orafice. He might not live up to expectation, but I would put my money on him doing fantastically. Bound to be a fan favourite, and bound to be loyal to Gunn too after quitting his job as a scaffolder. Verdict:- 8/10 fantastic bargain buy for 25k, and in my opinion as good as a young Leon McKenzie (who was of course sold for £1.25m)

Matty Gill In - I cant judge this one really, but Leyton Orient fans believe that he is quality, and I will take their word for it. The last time we signed a little known centre midfielder from the division it worked out just fine. His brother also used to teach my best mate tennis in Norwich which is of course irrelevant. Verdict:- Too early to judge really, but im giving this a 7/10 just because he replaced a departing toddler.

Owain Tudor Jones - What can I say, looks like a quality signing, a real physical presence and a battler. I have always rated this bloke and could be our next Damien Francis. Being a Welsh international is of course irrelevant, as anybody with two legs and welsh in their bloodline can get caps (see Carl Robinson). Being 6 ft 4 in and built like a brick sh*thouse is very relevant, and we have missed that physical presence in the middle of the park since Dickson Etuhu left (well, when he could be bothered to turn up). Verdict: 9/10 for realising that the pansy Russell and the overweight Pattison were not going to be good enough to for us next year.

So far so good in my opinion, about another 4 to leave and another 12 to arrive and I will be happy. Real progress is being made, to have two good signings in place with 15 days until the transfer window is a good start, im really happy with the type of player coming in and the type of player being disposed of. I would like to see the back of Daryl Russell for a start.

The Revolution has begun, arise Sir Bryan to lead us forth onto the muddy battlefields of league one with brave new warriors, and lets us be successful in our quest to be victorious and to claim back the state of East Anglia.

 

[/quote]Gunn was chief Scout for Roeder!!!! what you on about....!!! I do however think the first 3 signings of his campaign are good, but keeping the faith, needs to be there first to keep it![/quote]

Oh and Roeder signed players because of Gunns recommendation did he? Because Gunn would have released Huckerby, put Cureton out on loan to Barnsley?  It was Gunn''s links with Arsenal that brought us Keiron Gibbs?  It was Gunns history of working in London that brought us Koromo (Harry Redknapp, who Roeder once worked for), Henville-Archibald (london link), Elliott Omnuszi (london link), Antoine Sibierski (Roeders former player), Dejan Stefanovic (that old london link again).

Why dont you educate yourself in the role of a chief scout, and the role of the football manager. Come back and tell me who instructs who, and who makes the final decision. Obviously you dont need me to tell you that Gunn was an employee of Roeders, and thus scouted players that Roeder wanted him to scout, and you also dont need me to tell you that Roeder would make a decision as to whether or not to sign a player.

Gunn:-  "Oh gaffer, I''ve found a player, a real gem e''is"

Roeder:-  "Who"

Gunn:- "His name is Antoine Siberski, plays for JJB united or something".

 

Give it a rest pal, you understand who it was the destroyed our squad, the sooner you get over this grudge the better.

 

 

[/quote]

lets get a few things straight! 1. im not your pal! 2. 19 games 5 wins relegation, please educate me???? 3. im guessing from you mouth you sat on the board with roeder when he picked his players, as you seem to know Gunn had nothing to do with our relegation plite!i hope Gunn pulls it off, and i will be happy to eat my hat......but dont preach blindness when the facts are already steering you in the face!!!!!![/quote]

1. From the way you speak to people and the level of intelligence you show I''m surprised you have any pals.

2. Try opening both your eyes and seeing the situation for what it was.

3. Gunn was on a hiding to nothing just as any other manager would have been in the same position with the amount of dross we had, and still have, at the club. Time for some more to go!

4. I''ll be very happy to watch you eating your hat

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[quote user="Loan City Fc "]Gunn will go down in history as the worst manager ever at Norwich , i dont think he has a clue, as he more than proved last season Kept Roeder and we may have stayed up once Gunn was appointed relegation was a certainty .[/quote]But see, towards the end of Rodent''s tenure we played even WORSE football than at tiems under Gunn. At least now Gunn has cleared out some of the deadwood and brought in a couple of good players who have been praised by others in the game. More signings are mere days away I reckon. Slowly but surely he''s building his own Norwich City, whereas in his reign in the Championship he was basically rushed into trying to bring enough bodies to keep us from dropping a division before he could further mould his team for the next season. Gunn wasn''t my first choice either. I''m still not sure that for where we are at this stage he is the right man for the job in terms of getting us promoted and stabalising our fortunes both on and off the pitch. But he''s actually doing alright thus far, more so than I or many other fans thought he would in the wake of relegation. Roeder and his various london links, hunches, snide comments, awful football and so on and so forth can kindly take these aspects of his "management" and stick them where the sun doesn''t shine. I''ve said it many times on this message board and I will say it once again. Roeder single handedly RAPED the club. It all started after his initial 13 game unbeaten run (which was probably down to luck more than anything, the contributions of Huckerby and Dublin notwithstanding) when we plunged back down the league, then there was the epic summer transfer meltdown followed up by yet more poor play on the pitch, culminating in spectacular fashion with the fiasco that was the FA cup replay against Charlton. When I was 7 I once saw Skegness play a match against a fellow Lincolnshire non-league side and that was splendid in comparison to that absolute garbage. Roeder very nearly was the death of this club (he could still prove to be, heaven forbid) and we''d have finished below Charlton had we kept him on.

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you have to be kidding ... it was roeders poor loan signings that sent us down .

we would have been dead and burried long before if roeder stayed his player choice in genaral was very poor .

gun had made one perminent signing in the nine days the transfer window was open .

this was nut gunns team except a few loan signings like shacks alan lee who bar far were a better player than roeders total blunders he brought in .

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