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JuanVelasco

Doherty Off?

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Or Stefanovic not in plans?

Just trying to make sense of what Butterworth saying about hoping Nelson plays 40+ games next season.

Surely we would pick Stefanovic and Doherty ahead of him?  Stefanovic has come out and said he wants to stay.

Either Gunn doesnt realise how good Stefanovic is, Doherty is leaving, or Nelson is being lied to slightly about his importance next season?

 

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

Or Stefanovic not in plans?

Just trying to make sense of what Butterworth saying about hoping Nelson plays 40+ games next season.

Surely we would pick Stefanovic and Doherty ahead of him?  Stefanovic has come out and said he wants to stay.

Either Gunn doesnt realise how good Stefanovic is, Doherty is leaving, or Nelson is being lied to slightly about his importance next season?

 

[/quote]Thats exactly what I thought when I heard it.Perhaps he just didn''t wanna say infront of Nelson, "I hope he plays well over the 5 games he''ll start next season"

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The best 2 in training should start in my opinion. I''m not a fan of Docs, but if he trains better and looks better then he should start. Stef would be my only cert.

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I also think that we are hoping for a cup run in one of the three cups we are in this season...

Could be potential for all three central defenders to play 35-40 games next season

With spillane as extra cover

 

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Stefanovic will need a bit of time to get some games under his belt again. But with Spillane, Nelson, Doc and Stefanovic in the backline we could do far worse. I''d prefer a Shackell in that line-up somewhere but beggars can''t be choosers.

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I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   

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I think it is very unlikely that Nelson with have joined to spend most of next season on the bench, although we obviously do need strength in depth in case of suspensions and injuries.  I think there is a strong possibility that Doc might be off.  He must be one of the highest earners at the club and he could be a good signing for some of the clubs who expect to finish in mid/bottom half of the table next season.

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

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It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.

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[quote user="League one here we come"]

I also think that we are hoping for a cup run in one of the three cups we are in this season...

Could be potential for all three central defenders to play 35-40 games next season

With spillane as extra cover

[/quote]

We would have to play 20 games in the cup for each defender (assuming no injuries) to play 40 games each.

We are Norwich City!  first round exits all round!

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year. I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

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[quote user="Hardhouse44"]A football team needs more than 2 centre backs! It''s a long season
[/quote]

Yes I know that Mr State the bleedin obvious, please feel free to stick to the context of the original post and tell me how we are going to give Nelson more than 40 games next season.

I will start you off. 46 games in the league, two centre backs in 4-4-2, thats 92 games.

92 / 3 = 30.6 games, lets say 31 games for two centre backs and 30 for another.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

[/quote]

He was out of contract last summer, he was offered a new contract which he didnt sign until the day before pre season training. He was instead looking for other options, the only one which was made apparent was a move to the MLS. He hadnt been in contact with Roeder all summer, then signed the deal at the very last minute, it was a two year deal which expires at the end of this year.

Everybody with a little bit of common sense could see what happened, Doherty wasnt happy with the contract and didnt contact the club all summer, he couldnt get a better deal elsewhere and signed one with us at the last minute.

He isnt going to be on premiership wages for a deal signed one year ago, with no other offers on the table, and as such his recent relegation reduction is likely to put him on a similar level as people like Russell, Drury, Pattison, Cureton and Co.

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 

 

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[quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year. I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore. [/quote]Sorry to compare to Leicester again, but Kisnorbo has been in the Leicester team for the last few seasons and we have had some of our worst seasons in our history, this season he rarely played due to injury and when he did make his 7 or so appearances, they were some of the worst of the season and i dont recall winning with him in the team. It doesn''t make him a bad defender, in fact he could get into most championship defences, just mere coincidence.From the games I go to see Norwich, as stated already, he looked better than in previous seasons, so in a lower league he could be a top defender this season and your team will be no better without him, and he is certainly better than Nelson.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"]

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 [/quote]

In which case he''s probably looking for a role somewhere else on more - he was playing Premiership football not so long ago - so it makes sense that Nelson might be playing most of the season.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

[/quote]

He was out of contract last summer, he was offered a new contract which he didnt sign until the day before pre season training. He was instead looking for other options, the only one which was made apparent was a move to the MLS. He hadnt been in contact with Roeder all summer, then signed the deal at the very last minute, it was a two year deal which expires at the end of this year.

Everybody with a little bit of common sense could see what happened, Doherty wasnt happy with the contract and didnt contact the club all summer, he couldnt get a better deal elsewhere and signed one with us at the last minute.

He isnt going to be on premiership wages for a deal signed one year ago, with no other offers on the table, and as such his recent relegation reduction is likely to put him on a similar level as people like Russell, Drury, Pattison, Cureton and Co.

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 

 

[/quote]

That means nothing he was 27 and checking out what was avaliable to him, which was his right to do, we have no idea which clubs he spoke to only what was reported to us. Unless you have seen his contract you cant tell what is in it. You have no way of telling how affordable it is to the club by all accounts the wages were to high last season and are likely to still be to high this with the current senior players even with a reduction, lets face it our club hasnt been to sharp on negotiating good contract that suit the club in the past (i.e Earnshaw, Etuhu).

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[quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]

From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year.

I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.
[/quote]

If people want to pin the blame for our demise on one of the few players that actually played with a little bit of consistancy and passion last year then thats up to them, but you cannot ignore the fact that he had Omnuszi or Otsemober to the right of him, 5 or 6 different players beside him, the inexperienced Betrand to the left of him and the non entity David Marshall behind him.

If we had a team full of people with Dohertys relative ability, professionalism and consistancy last year then we wouldnt have been relegated. Without Doherty last year we could have been down a long time before Charlton. It really bugs me that people pick out one of the best players of the year for blame.

Im sure Gary Doherty is not happy with the quality of players being stuck around him, for me he was our only decent defender for much of the year, and a Shackell - Doherty partnership for the whole year would have seen us safe. But each to their own.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

[/quote]

He was out of contract last summer, he was offered a new contract which he didnt sign until the day before pre season training. He was instead looking for other options, the only one which was made apparent was a move to the MLS. He hadnt been in contact with Roeder all summer, then signed the deal at the very last minute, it was a two year deal which expires at the end of this year.

Everybody with a little bit of common sense could see what happened, Doherty wasnt happy with the contract and didnt contact the club all summer, he couldnt get a better deal elsewhere and signed one with us at the last minute.

He isnt going to be on premiership wages for a deal signed one year ago, with no other offers on the table, and as such his recent relegation reduction is likely to put him on a similar level as people like Russell, Drury, Pattison, Cureton and Co.

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 

 

[/quote]

That means nothing he was 27 and checking out what was avaliable to him, which was his right to do, we have no idea which clubs he spoke to only what was reported to us. Unless you have seen his contract you cant tell what is in it. You have no way of telling how affordable it is to the club by all accounts the wages were to high last season and are likely to still be to high this with the current senior players even with a reduction, lets face it our club hasnt been to sharp on negotiating good contract that suit the club in the past (i.e Earnshaw, Etuhu).

[/quote]

I do know how much he was on last year, I told you.

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[quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]

From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year.

I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.
[/quote]

I dont think Roeder would agree with that.

He saw Doc as nothing more than a 3rd choice CB as he started the season with Dejan and Kennedy

I think losing both those players through injury led to a lot of our problems.

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

[/quote]

He was out of contract last summer, he was offered a new contract which he didnt sign until the day before pre season training. He was instead looking for other options, the only one which was made apparent was a move to the MLS. He hadnt been in contact with Roeder all summer, then signed the deal at the very last minute, it was a two year deal which expires at the end of this year.

Everybody with a little bit of common sense could see what happened, Doherty wasnt happy with the contract and didnt contact the club all summer, he couldnt get a better deal elsewhere and signed one with us at the last minute.

He isnt going to be on premiership wages for a deal signed one year ago, with no other offers on the table, and as such his recent relegation reduction is likely to put him on a similar level as people like Russell, Drury, Pattison, Cureton and Co.

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 

 

[/quote]

That means nothing he was 27 and checking out what was avaliable to him, which was his right to do, we have no idea which clubs he spoke to only what was reported to us. Unless you have seen his contract you cant tell what is in it. You have no way of telling how affordable it is to the club by all accounts the wages were to high last season and are likely to still be to high this with the current senior players even with a reduction, lets face it our club hasnt been to sharp on negotiating good contract that suit the club in the past (i.e Earnshaw, Etuhu).

[/quote]

I do know how much he was on last year, I told you.

[/quote]

I was merely pointing out that signing in the Premiership is irrelevant when he was given a new contract in the Championship. He was effectively signed in the Championship, post parachute payments, so your point about him being one of the highest earners on that basis is irrelevant.

If this club wants to move forward then it cannot expect to clear out every player on a championship wage. If Clingan, Hoolohan, Russell, Pattison, Drury, Cureton, Stefanovic were all to leave, then yes Doherty would be one of if not the highest earner at that club. As it happens the clubs wage structure last year was pretty water tight and all of those aforementioned players were on pretty similar money.

So if you are saying that we should be selling Doherty to get him off of the wage bill, then you are pretty much saying that we should be selling all of those players. In my opinion keeping some of those players are the only thing giving us the edge over other league one clubs next year.

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[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]

From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year.

I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.
[/quote]

I dont think Roeder would agree with that.

He saw Doc as nothing more than a 3rd choice CB as he started the season with Dejan and Kennedy

I think losing both those players through injury led to a lot of our problems.

[/quote]

But Kennedy was only on loan until 1st January (just over 3 months) so sorry to pee on your bonfire, but that doesnt really work does it. Losing Kennedy to injury was a foregone conclusion, he was 24 and had already spent a total of over 4 years not being able to kick a ball.

 

 

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]It''s only a guess but wouldnt Doherty be one of the highest earners of the club having been signed while we were in the prem. Even with the drop in wages due to relgation clauses in contracts he must still be one of the highest earners. Let''s face it none of us know which players have told Gunn they want out, his performances have always been commited but some players are just like that it doesnt mean at 28/29 he wouldnt prefer to be at a championship club, with a shot of getting back into the Ireland setup. I guess time will tell.[/quote]

He has been out of contract since then and signed a much lower deal last summer.

[/quote]

I cant remember anything being said about signing on much lower money, If true that really would be odd for professional football and usually would also be a motivating factor for him to leave should should he get the opportunity in itself.

[/quote]

He was out of contract last summer, he was offered a new contract which he didnt sign until the day before pre season training. He was instead looking for other options, the only one which was made apparent was a move to the MLS. He hadnt been in contact with Roeder all summer, then signed the deal at the very last minute, it was a two year deal which expires at the end of this year.

Everybody with a little bit of common sense could see what happened, Doherty wasnt happy with the contract and didnt contact the club all summer, he couldnt get a better deal elsewhere and signed one with us at the last minute.

He isnt going to be on premiership wages for a deal signed one year ago, with no other offers on the table, and as such his recent relegation reduction is likely to put him on a similar level as people like Russell, Drury, Pattison, Cureton and Co.

I do know how much money he was on, Im not going to say as thats not morally right, but assumming there was a wage reduction clause upon relegation - it is perfectly affordable for this club and Stefanovic is on more.

 

 

[/quote]

Bingo, even Roeder said in an interview that it was a "take it or leave it" offer.

As I already mentioned he didn''t fancy him for anything more than a back up.

Back to the subject of the thread, it would not suprise me if Doc or Dejan left on July 1st

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]

From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year.

I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.
[/quote]

I dont think Roeder would agree with that.

He saw Doc as nothing more than a 3rd choice CB as he started the season with Dejan and Kennedy

I think losing both those players through injury led to a lot of our problems.

[/quote]

But Kennedy was only on loan until 1st January (just over 3 months) so sorry to pee on your bonfire, but that doesnt really work does it. Losing Kennedy to injury was a foregone conclusion, he was 24 and had already spent a total of over 4 years not being able to kick a ball.

[/quote]

Bearing in mind that Roeder also thought that Huckerby was not good enough for our squad, was ignorant enough to loan Jamie Cureton to Barnsley, sold Jason Shackell and replaced him with a 33 year old, and had a ration of about 1 in 3 signings being successful, I will choose to respect my own judgement over Glen Roeders, thanks.

Of course, you are more than entitled to take Roeders ideals as gospel and worship the man if you like, personally I think that makes you a little bit of a tit.

 

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[quote user="JuanVelasco"][quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="jimidack"][quote user="JuanVelasco"]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I would hate to lose D''OHerty after he anchored out defense for the last 4 or 5 years, including 2 relegations.  We can''t afford to lose such a quality talent with that  kind of impact on the team.   [/quote]

Its ok for you to say sitting behind your laptop in Houston. Doherty was playing his best football for us last season.

[/quote]

From what I can see from the original quote, he is just stating a fact. In the last 4-5 years Doc has been our first choice centre back and we have gotten worse year by year.

I do think it is merely a coincidence but it''s hard to ignore.
[/quote]

I dont think Roeder would agree with that.

He saw Doc as nothing more than a 3rd choice CB as he started the season with Dejan and Kennedy

I think losing both those players through injury led to a lot of our problems.

[/quote]

But Kennedy was only on loan until 1st January (just over 3 months) so sorry to pee on your bonfire, but that doesnt really work does it. Losing Kennedy to injury was a foregone conclusion, he was 24 and had already spent a total of over 4 years not being able to kick a ball.

 

 

[/quote]

Why would he start Dejan and Kennedy if he rated Doc above them? 

 

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