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ricky knight

19 games is enough

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After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.[/quote]I think that Hiddink had better raw material though!

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="ricky knight"]After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.[/quote]

I think that Hiddink had better raw material though!
[/quote]

The concept is the same though, you could question if performances/desire/commitment were there more under Gunn.

I think the original poster has made a good point here.

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="ricky knight"]After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.[/quote]

I think that Hiddink had better raw material though!
[/quote]

but millionaire players can be very hard work as many managers have found out.

 

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[quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

I totally agree. Gunn is not as good a manager as Hiddink.

 

[/quote]

Haha, Gunn out! Hiddink in!

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I think some are missing the point, to be a good manager like Hiddink, you need basic skills, like motivation and man management, they cost nout, Gunn in his 19 games has not displayed either imo, he can spend millions but if he has not got the basics, he will fail.I did concede Chelsea are a different prospect it just brought home the turnaround in 22 games.

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Exactly. Taking over struggling side? Yep. Limited resources? Sure.

Even more reason, then, to be a good man-manager and to be able to motivate players, as well as being tactically aware and proactive rather than reactive.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="ricky knight"]After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.[/quote]I think that Hiddink had better raw material though![/quote]

but millionaire players can be very hard work as many managers have found out.

[/quote]I think this argument is flawed for two key reasons:Firstly you are comparing a manager with no previous experience to a manager who is quite the opposite. A manager that is experienced with dealing with expencive and perhaps tempremental players. You have to take into consideration the fact that he has managed top clubs and so will have had many years worth of experience with these so called ''millionaire'' players. Hiddink is a world class manager - Gunn is in comparison, just starting out.Secondly if you believe what Hiddink has said these millionaire players did not make as big a fuss as he was expecting and that he has experienced before. Most of the players at Chelsea are world class players who represent their country. On top of this many of them have won major honours - several of them whilst they have been at Chelsea playing with the same players that still remain there.I think you are talking about a world class manager coming to a team of world class players that are out of form and comparing it to a team of Championship players at best who have not played together for that long (comparatively) and who have never shown that they can be consistant and retain any sign of form. As I have argued before I don''t think Gunn was the best ever possible managerial candidate but I still don''t see how you can blame relegation on him. Most of our players seemed to pick up under his management it''s just that they either didn''t pick up enough or that they simply were not good enough in the first place.

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Totally agree Ricky.Gunn was certainly given a fine oppertunity with an influx of players that suited him both prior to his appointment, and during his management, and cosidering we were not in the relegation zone at the point of his arrival, it just goes to show how much of a failiure he is. He''s not a manager, never will be, and has left a lot of fans in despair and without hope upon his insistance to be so.Gunn is deluded if he thinks he''s doing the fans or club any favours now.

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[quote user="ricky knight"]I think some are missing the point, to be a good manager like Hiddink, you need basic skills, like motivation and man management, they cost nout, Gunn in his 19 games has not displayed either imo, he can spend millions but if he has not got the basics, he will fail.I did concede Chelsea are a different prospect it just brought home the turnaround in 22 games.[/quote]I am afraid it is not that simple though. Glen Hoddle is meant to be a good manager at motivating his players as is Peter Taylor but they lack in other areas. If it was just motivation then you wouldn''t nessisarily need a manager with experiences just in football, you could take a gamble on someone like Clive Woodward.In my opinion Gunn did motivate the players to begin with but with players whose hearts are not in it there is very little you can do to motivate them. Look at how many are rumoured to be wanting to jump ship or have done already - you can''t tell me that they were not already thinking about it five games before the end of the season at least? Croft has been able to talk to other clubs since January, so has Lappin and Fotheringham and any other player that would be out of contract. In addition to that other players have probably asked their agents to drum up some interest. What could Gunn do in regards to that?However two players who were struggling for form when he took the helm were Hoolahan and Semi and in my opinion, they played their best games under Gunn. Throw into that the fact that Alan Lee had hardly played all season and looked more like 21 than 31 at times.There is a lot of difference between a top four premiership club and a bottom half of the table Championship club. What motivates the players is likely to be different things. If you are playing for a top four team in any of the worlds top leagues you are on good money, you have the best facilities and are known internationally. Players from any of the teams bellow that aspire to be as good as that - what is there to motivate them if they have had better offers from other clubs? That is less likely to happen to a Champions League club.

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Chicken, reread my post i never once suggested Gunn was to blame for relegation, i did suggest in 19 games basic skills needed to be a good manager were missing, its just my opinion i am willing to be convinced otherwise by people on here that i have it wrong. Yes Hiddink is a great manager, yes its Chelsea but was there enough about City in Gunns 19 games to suggest, Motivation or man management skills, too many games we did not turn up or play for the shirt, we went down with a wimper.

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[quote user="eagle"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"]

I totally agree. Gunn is not as good a manager as Hiddink.

 

[/quote]

Haha, Gunn out! Hiddink in!

[/quote]

Quick, get a Facebook page set up!!!!

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[quote user="ricky knight"]Chicken, reread my post i never once suggested Gunn was to blame for relegation, i did suggest in 19 games basic skills needed to be a good manager were missing, its just my opinion i am willing to be convinced otherwise by people on here that i have it wrong. Yes Hiddink is a great manager, yes its Chelsea but was there enough about City in Gunns 19 games to suggest, Motivation or man management skills, too many games we did not turn up or play for the shirt, we went down with a wimper.[/quote]I would agree with most but as I said its not an entirely logical or straight forward comparison.Yes some managers have done better with worse - Worthington turned a torrid team around but he did have quality in there.For me the players have been some of the biggest let downs. You look at the team we had on paper last summer once all the signings were made and all we really lacked was a big old fashioned centreforward. In every other position we had solid players, on paper remember, that could at least do a job at this level and get us a mid-table position - or possibly better.Looking at how it has panned out and you can not say that they have all been a genuine let down. Clingan - a free transfer from a newly promoted team has been one of the few highlights but having said that the second half of the season was not as good as his first half of the season - think Forrest away for example where it was effectively him Croft and Patty that did it for us.Stefanovic looked to be a good solid defender until injury struck. Bertrand was not a shade on the player he was last season, Semi looked shot of all confidence and Omosuzi displayed his inexperience. Doc did his part in the second half of the season and was probably another of the better players.Croft''s fitness seemed to have improved but he was still all huff and puff and no end product (appart from a wonder goal against the scum).Do you see what I mean? Whether the players are too comfortable or whether their heads were somewhere else I am not sure but there is only so much a manager can do if they do not want to be motivated - or worryingly - if we are already seeing the best they have got to give!For me all of the players Gunn signed gave it their all when they played. In Mooney, Lee, Gow, Shackell and Cody you had players which improved the team and were really the ones that gave us a fighting chance of staying up. Mooney''s strike rate being only marginally bellow Lita''s.

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You make some valid points chicken but there is no excuse for the second half against Reading and the Charlton no show, two must win games, we had other no shows but these two pxssed me off most, like Worthy and Fulham, that should have been his last game, likewise Gunn should have gone respect in tact instead he clings on like a dead man walking. Please believe me mate i really hope i am wrong and city walk the League, i will be over the moon.

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[quote user="ricky knight"] I have seen lads playing for nout motivated by a good manager. Come on convince me then, how did Gunn do a good job.[/quote]I dont really think this is the place to tell people that you have "seen lads playing" for free!

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="ricky knight"]I think some are missing the point, to be a good manager like Hiddink, you need basic skills, like motivation and man management, they cost nout, Gunn in his 19 games has not displayed either imo, he can spend millions but if he has not got the basics, he will fail.I did concede Chelsea are a different prospect it just brought home the turnaround in 22 games.[/quote]

I am afraid it is not that simple though. Glen Hoddle is meant to be a good manager at motivating his players as is Peter Taylor but they lack in other areas. If it was just motivation then you wouldn''t nessisarily need a manager with experiences just in football, you could take a gamble on someone like Clive Woodward.

In my opinion Gunn did motivate the players to begin with but with players whose hearts are not in it there is very little you can do to motivate them. Look at how many are rumoured to be wanting to jump ship or have done already - you can''t tell me that they were not already thinking about it five games before the end of the season at least? Croft has been able to talk to other clubs since January, so has Lappin and Fotheringham and any other player that would be out of contract. In addition to that other players have probably asked their agents to drum up some interest. What could Gunn do in regards to that?

However two players who were struggling for form when he took the helm were Hoolahan and Semi and in my opinion, they played their best games under Gunn. Throw into that the fact that Alan Lee had hardly played all season and looked more like 21 than 31 at times.

There is a lot of difference between a top four premiership club and a bottom half of the table Championship club. What motivates the players is likely to be different things. If you are playing for a top four team in any of the worlds top leagues you are on good money, you have the best facilities and are known internationally. Players from any of the teams bellow that aspire to be as good as that - what is there to motivate them if they have had better offers from other clubs? That is less likely to happen to a Champions League club.
[/quote]

 

 

Lets face facts Blackpool, Sheff Wednesday,Reading, Swansea,Charlton the team never turned up losing five of your last six matches the facts cannot be altered the man got us relegated. Against Cardiff we played Mooney and Gow up front I dont think we saw that partnership again preferring elbows Lee and the high ball. I see little to be optimistic about next season. 

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[quote user="ridgeman"]

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="ricky knight"]I think some are missing the point, to be a good manager like Hiddink, you need basic skills, like motivation and man management, they cost nout, Gunn in his 19 games has not displayed either imo, he can spend millions but if he has not got the basics, he will fail.I did concede Chelsea are a different prospect it just brought home the turnaround in 22 games.[/quote]I am afraid it is not that simple though. Glen Hoddle is meant to be a good manager at motivating his players as is Peter Taylor but they lack in other areas. If it was just motivation then you wouldn''t nessisarily need a manager with experiences just in football, you could take a gamble on someone like Clive Woodward.In my opinion Gunn did motivate the players to begin with but with players whose hearts are not in it there is very little you can do to motivate them. Look at how many are rumoured to be wanting to jump ship or have done already - you can''t tell me that they were not already thinking about it five games before the end of the season at least? Croft has been able to talk to other clubs since January, so has Lappin and Fotheringham and any other player that would be out of contract. In addition to that other players have probably asked their agents to drum up some interest. What could Gunn do in regards to that?However two players who were struggling for form when he took the helm were Hoolahan and Semi and in my opinion, they played their best games under Gunn. Throw into that the fact that Alan Lee had hardly played all season and looked more like 21 than 31 at times.There is a lot of difference between a top four premiership club and a bottom half of the table Championship club. What motivates the players is likely to be different things. If you are playing for a top four team in any of the worlds top leagues you are on good money, you have the best facilities and are known internationally. Players from any of the teams bellow that aspire to be as good as that - what is there to motivate them if they have had better offers from other clubs? That is less likely to happen to a Champions League club.[/quote]

 

 

Lets face facts Blackpool, Sheff Wednesday,Reading, Swansea,Charlton the team never turned up losing five of your last six matches the facts cannot be altered the man got us relegated. Against Cardiff we played Mooney and Gow up front I dont think we saw that partnership again preferring elbows Lee and the high ball. I see little to be optimistic about next season. 

[/quote]Was Gow not injured/ill for a couple of games there and then Lee proved that he gave us an extra dimension? Lets leave the Charlton game out of the equasion - I say that because you go down that team sheet and tell me that all of the players had their minds on task. I believe they did up until the first goal. Then any remnants of fight evaporated. It was the last game. Lee, Gow, Mooney, Carney, Leijer and Shackell  were all going back to their parent clubs.Marshall probably new about a possible move and some of the others may have done - just that the move hasn''t gone through yet. I think by this point team moral is probably at a low with players either not really caring or focusing on the game in hand or too demoralised to give it their all.Of that game:Marshall - sold to CardiffOtsemobor - remainsDoherty - remains Leijer - returned to parent clubShackell - returned to parent clubSmith - remainsRussell - wants out (reportedly)Clingan - linked with moves awayLappin - out of contractLee - returned to parent clubMooney - returned to parent club

Subs: Cureton - remainsCarney - returned to parent clubGow - returned to parent clubNelson - out of contractMcDonald - remainsI don''t for one second believe that Marshall or any other player that wants out only decided to want out after Charlton and lets face it if we had jobs in a company that we knew were facing downsizing and facing redundancies and job cuts you would also keep an eye out and keep your options open.Players that leave now or very soon after they return from their holiday are likely to be players that have already ''tested the water'' and had their agents phone around to see if anyone would be interested in them. If that is the case then it may well be that they already had positive feedback so what remains for them to play for?Gunn inherited not only a limited squad of players but players that seemed to have been under a negative regime that didnt have the confidence to take risks and play football. Some players were made favourites by Roeder and others treated very poorly. For example Lupoli and Lappin in comparison to Fotheringham and Patty. What must it have felt like to be in a team where loan rubbish was prefered over you? What Gunn had to do was get the unity back but as I say perhaps some players have been angling for a move away for quite some time now.I am not saying Gunn is a managerial God - I just don''t believe any of it was his fault. He would have had Martin and Spillane back who I think would have added to the team. When Hoolahan was injured Martin may have been able to fill in on the left and add that flair that we know he has not to mention the goal threat - to me he is like a young McVeigh. Spillane could have at least given Semi a run for his money if not played at the centre alongside Doherty when needed or in midfield instead of Lappin where he may well have been more effective.This club has been a mess for so long now that it is hard to blame any one person for this really - it has been a catologue of meterioc poor choices that has led to where we are.It also seems to me that most of the players signed recently were sold the club by Gunn and so in my books he has respect for that. Gow would have been here last summer if it wasnt for Roeder and I believe we would have had yet another player that has creative abilities that could have played alongside Clingan, upfront or on the wing. I wonder how many other players we almost had but were turned away by Roeder?For me Gunn, Crook and Butters deserve a propper shot at management rather than 19 games under a stormy cloud where some players had already left, in their minds at least, and where others needed to regain lost form and confidence.The first thing to judge the management set up on is their signings. So far the players we have been linked with have not been overly disapointing. Grant Holt would be a risk but not as much of a risk as Andy Bishop who is the same height and two years younger and who everyone seems to want here.I think people will see in the first few games of next season and possibly even the pre-season friendlies whether they have got the players to play together better.

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The substance of what you are saying is perfectly true, Ricky - on the evidence of our final league position compared to the position we were in when Gunn came in, he quite clearly did not do enough. But there is another factor that I''d like to throw in to the mix, and that factor is a bit of good, old-fashioned luck. I should make it clear that I''m not into revisionism: we went down because we weren''t good enough, and we weren''t good enough for all the many reasons outlined on this board over the past few months, including the fact that Gunn was a little wet behind the ears and a little green in terms of tactics. However, if we look back to Gunn''s first few games in charge, there is clear evidence that he did provide an initial injection of what you might like to call ''the Hiddink factor''. He took players who hadn''t been performing and gave them confidence to shine - witness Hoolahoops, who I thought was excellent under Gunn. He got rid of some dead wood - witness Fozzy, a big call if ever there was one. He brought in players who, initially at least, performed beyond expectation: Gow, Lee, Mooney. Then there were the performances. First up, as caretaker, he presided over the 4-0 victory over Barnsley. Now, Barnsley were not a good side, but that was a comprehensive dicking, a performance of determination and character light years away from the dross that was served up in the final weeks of the Roeder regime. Next up, we had the midweek game against Southampton. There was a wonder goal from Wes and, at half-time, we were 2-0 up and cruising. The players were up for it, first to the ball in midfield, and looked likely to add to that lead before the break. It didn''t happen, Southampton came back and the game finished 2-2. I don''t want to skirt over that second half performance, but on the evidence of those two games, I would say we had a side who clearly wanted to work and to win for Gunn, but who were perhaps a little short on quality. I''m not leaving out Gunn''s tactical naivety here - we should have shut up shop and won the game - but the problem in those games was not a lack of motivation; if anything, it was the opposite: too much enthusiasm, too strong a desire to impress, when the simple virtues of possession football would almost certainly have carried the day. After those games, we had a sturdy, hard-fought point away at Donny Rovers. No motivation problems there - the players stuck their heads in where it mattered and ground out the result. How many times under Roeder (or Grant) did the team go away from home for a midweek fixture they should have won, only to come back with their tails between their legs? Even better was to come: the 3-3 away at Wolves, who, lest we forget, were well on the way to the championship. We went 1 down, dragged it back to 1-1, then took the lead early in the 2nd half. Then we were pegged back to 2-2, which quickly became 3-2 Wolves. Again, let''s not skirt over the fraities of the side: if you go 2-1 up against the league leaders away from home, you shut up shop and keep it tight for a few minutes. What you don''t do is concede an immediate equaliser; and what you certainly don''t do after that is conced another within two minutes. That''s naivety, pure and simple - but it was the naivety of the players on the pitch, not the manager, that cost us there. In those situations any manager has to rely on the wise heads in the side. On this occasion, they didn''t rise to the moment. However, a further sign of the motivation coursing through the side at this point, they dragged themselves of the floor and conjured an equaliser. 3-3. That - by any measure - was a good point. And to come from behind twice against the league leaders is a sign of one thing more than anything else: a will, if not to win, then not to be beaten. How likely would it have been for the side Roeder sent out against Charlton in the cup replay to come up with a performance like that? Again, at this point in Gunn''s tenure, motivation was not a problem. Then we had the home game against Bristol - and this is where the wheels started to come off. We all know what happened: at 1-1, approaching half-time, with Norwich hanging in there against a very good side, Bristol were awarded a penalty that never was by a man who should never have been in charge (can''t quite bring myself to mention his name). The situation was compounded by the fact that the Doc was sent off, a decision later reversed by the FA. Suddenly, we were down to ten men and losing. It may be that Bristol were value for their lead - no question they were the better side in the first half - but we fought tooth and nail to preserve parity, only to be undone by an event beyond the control of the players and the manager. In the second half - down to ten men, let''s not forget - we gave it a go, we didn''t meekly surrender, and we should have been awarded one of the most clear penalties in the history of the game. It wasn''t to be. We lost the game - but in losing it, we fought tooth and nail. Again, I don''t think motivation from the manager was the problem.  Now, I don''t want to go down the route of ''we should have had this'', or ''we should have had that'', because, essentially, it''s a meaningless argument. However, I do think that in those opening games of the Gunn regime we saw the impact of the manager in demonstrating to the players what it meant to fight for the badge and to give whatever you have. The problem is that motivation will only take you so far: if you give everything you have and still come up with nowt then belief will start to dwindle; it will dwindle all the more quickly if you believe you haven''t had the rub of the green. Of course, players should be big enough and experienced enough to deal with those kinds of setbacks, but, when you''re down among the dead men with time runnning out, pressure can do funny things. And, with just a little bit of luck (allied to a little bit more quality) we could have come out of the first five games of the Gunn era with enough points to ensure our survival. It wasn''t to be, but I don''t think that motivation from Gunn was the problem - at least not in the early stages. By the end, of course, we did, as you say, go down with a wimper. Charlton was an atrocious day in the history of the club - but I think the performance there was symptomatic of a pattern of decline that had been going on from way before Gunn took charge. He did his best to reverse that pattern - indeed in those opening games he showed signs that he might be able to do it - but he didn''t have any of the fortune that even the likes of Hiddink need.I don''t know whether or not Gunn will make a decent manager - and to be honest, I was against his appointment. But if he - along with Crook and Butterworth - can assemble a squad with enough quality, I don''t think that motivation will be an issue. Indeed, if they can sort out the organisation - no excuses this time; it''ll be their own squad - and ally that to some of the fight shown in those first five games then we could be on to something. Those are big ''ifs'' of course, but they''d be big ''ifs'' whichever manager was brought in. Let''s not forget that Roeder was a significantly experienced manager and it didn''t get us very far... Anyway. I''ve rabbited on far too long. I''m off to sit in the sun and to dream of Andy D''Urso and the end of his career as a referee... 

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Spot on. Perhaps also with that wise heads comment you could also say that we had very few wise heads available. Lee and Doc aside who else in their could be described as a wise head? Drury when he played I guess - but he would be concentrating on his game after injury.

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Good post AC but with respect anyone taking over from Roeder would have had an effect he was as popular as a scummer in the snakepit at the death. But as pointed out earler we won one of our last six when it really mattered and it was in our own hands we no showed, Gunn must take some blame for that.

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I totally agree - Gunn has to take some blame, and a fair portion of it too. My concern is that we''ll find ourselves in the same position next season: a bright start followed by a wobble and then the clouds descend and Carrow Road turns into the pit of fury it was towards the end of the Worthington regime (and the Grant regime, and the Roeder regime). I think we fans - and I include myself in this; I''m as hacked off with the state of things as anyone else - need to find a way to balance our justifiable anger with some sense of realism regarding our expectations in the season to come. Promotion won''t be achieved in October or November, or even December. The way I see it, we ain''t got too many chips left to play. If Gunn and co get off on the wrong foot (which can happen, even in successful seasons and this would apply to whichever manager was brought in),  and they''re booted out by Christmas as a consequence of supporter unrest, what then? A new manager''s brought in. These aren''t my players, he says. Judge me when I''ve got my own players in. By the time next transfer window rolls around, I just don''t think we''ll have the money for another rebuild - hell, I''m not even sure we have the money for the current rebuild - and the new man will have no option but to go for loans, and so the spiral will continue... I''m not sure what I''m saying, other than that Gunn''s the man in possession and - whether we like it or not - we need to find a way to get behind him. I''m grateful to the board for what they did in the distant past, but for some time they have been guilty of chronic mismanagement. I''d like them to go and to go as soon as possible, but an even greater priority has to be for us to assemble a squad of players who are contracted to the club, and to give that squad the time to gel. It may not be pretty - and it may require a season to get right - but if we can''t find that stability and put an end to the revolving door of managers and players on short term contracts then we''re going to go down quicker than you or I can say: "Accrington Stanley? Who are they?" 

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[quote user="ricky knight"]After watching Chelsea beat Everton in the FA cup final, it got me thinking, Hiddink only had 22 games in charge yet changed the whole outlook of the team. Chelsea were going nowhere fast, players did not want to play, their home record had been demolished, 17 points lost i believe.and silverware seemed a mile off. He has had the same squad but man management and motivation has turned it around not money or new players. I know people will say you cant compare us with Chelsea, granted but did you really see, hand on heart, Gunn use the same skills, what cost nout, imo the answer is no, thats why also imo he is not, nor will be a good manager.[/quote]Really that is a silly comparison! You''ve said it yourself... Guus Is one of the best managers in the world... Arguably THE best in the world. I''m sort of amazed people are STILL on about this... This has been done to death, had a come back and then been done to death again... surely this topic is dead now?I might start a thread about why we''ve appointed Gary Megson... It must be ten years since it happened but why not ay?Sorry but come on!   

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Its not over and will be a talking point early in the new season when the WE WANT GUNN OUT chants ring around Carrow Road .Stupid appointment , and without a shadow of a doubt the worst one we could have made.

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