An open letter to Mr Foulger

[Badger 0]

Dear Mr Foulger,Thank you for your generous offer to match pound for pound any unclaimed rebates. As I am not doubt sure you are aware, a significant number of fans will totally justifiably chose to keep the rebate – it is a large sum of money and they understandably feel that they can use the rebate to the benefit of themselves and their family. There are others, such as myself, who feel able and willing to forgo the rebate and are very pleased that the effect will be doubled by your offer.There is another group of supporters that might have been prepared to forgo the rebate for the benefit of Norwich City but feel that to so would deny themselves the opportunity to express some form of protest at the position the club finds itself in. Whilst they want to support the club financially, they do not wish this to be seen as a vote of confidence in the board. Some of these have expressed an interest in buying new shares, which I understand are available. In such a way, they feel that they can achieve both their ends. The potential difficulty with this is that the club will not benefit from your offer (i.e. “the doubling effect”). Could I politely suggest that the football club might benefit if you were to extend your offer to those fans that bought small packets of shares instead of forgoing the rebate? Such fans could write to the club expressing their desire. Some, like myself, may possibly add a little extra to “make it up to a round number.” The benefits of this are that it could help raise additional funds, will extend share ownership in the club and demonstrate that the board is listening to its fans. Yours sincerely,Badger

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

Well, I''ve read it twice and STILL can''t see the flaw, but I''m sure it will come to me. In the meantime we await Smudger''s magisterial reply with bated whatsit...

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

An excellent letter Butler, and an idea that I am sure will have been suggested to him and his fellow directors already   

However there appears to be one or possibly two reasons why he has been unable to extend this offer to those that wish to buy shares.

 

 

 

[NCFCanary 0]

Great letter... a few ammendments in one or two places and should definitely be interesting for Mr. Foulger to feat his eyes upon[;)]

[city-till-i-die 7]

great letter badger....it is written from both sides of the fence [Y][Y][Y]

[LQ 0]

Good stuff Badger - I had just written something similar myself to pop in the envelope.As far as I''m aware the NCST were going to contact Michael Foulger to ask if he would match any money ST holders took as their rebate but reinvested via the Trust, so much along the lines you''re asking for.

[The Butler 0]

I think Badger that this has been a theme in several of my posts.

If they accepted this then they could remove the "blackmail" and pressure being applied to season ticket holders and still get as much if not more in the way of funding.

It would still leave the question of "how the hell do you apply pressure on DS/MWJ"

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...

The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.

[/quote]

 

Would that work though?  Would be a way around things if it did.

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.[/quote]

 

Would that work though?  Would be a way around things if it did.

[/quote]WAY, it was a slightly flippant Saturday evening suggestion. Not something I would expect to happen. However, assuming that few (if any) rebates are as much as £120, then if people were prepared to buy four shares and that was matched by Foulger then it would raise more than would accrue from the simple matching of rebates.And as far as The Butler''s point is concerned, IF such a thing were to happen, and IF a solid bunch of shares found itself eventually into the hands of, say, the Supporters'' Trust, then there might be a partial counterweight to the majority shareholders. But only a partial one.

[Desert Fox 0]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[O.T.B.C 1]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[/quote]

Aye that is a good one.

[Bobert 0]

Surely if more shares are going to be issued they have to be offered to exsisting shareholders first. I also thought there was some sort of cap on the number of shares that could be issued relating to the amount of debt owing by the Club.

[Grando 336]

My money''s on the equity option for some reason...

[Desert Fox 0]

Bobert,

Creating shares is not related to the debt. In theory an infinite number of shares can be created so long as this is approved by a AGM or EGM. Of course, this question is academic given that the majority of shares are concentrated in the hands of a few individuals. If the Wynn-Jones approve it, Foulger can convet his invetsment into fresh equity, but they expect the fans to just gift their contribution.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[/quote]

 

Good question and Good letter Badger.

My message to Foulger would be hand over the million you''re promising first and then maybe more fans will add to it.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[/quote]

 

Good question and Good letter Badger.

My message to Foulger would be hand over the million you''re promising first and then maybe more fans will add to it.

[/quote]

I thought your goal was to get rid of the board?

Now you want Mr Foulger to hand over 1 million?

[ca 1]

[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[/quote]

 

Good question and Good letter Badger.

My message to Foulger would be hand over the million you''re promising first and then maybe more fans will add to it.

[/quote] I thought your goal was to get rid of the board? Now you want Mr Foulger to hand over 1 million?[/quote]

 

No I''m not happy with the board or its performance over the past few years but who is? My point is that why is Foulger only promising to hand money over if we do?? If he''s happy to match the refund total of £1m why doesn''t he just hand it over rather than go down the guilt trip?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

A good question for Mr Foulger,

Is your proposed matched investment being treated as a gift or are you expecting to convert your investment into equity?

 

[/quote]

 

Good question and Good letter Badger.

My message to Foulger would be hand over the million you''re promising first and then maybe more fans will add to it.

[/quote] I thought your goal was to get rid of the board? Now you want Mr Foulger to hand over 1 million?[/quote]

 

No I''m not happy with the board or its performance over the past few years but who is? My point is that why is Foulger only promising to hand money over if we do?? If he''s happy to match the refund total of £1m why doesn''t he just hand it over rather than go down the guilt trip?

[/quote]

Because he is trying to raise money for the club!

If more then 50% do not take up the option to take back the rebate he will raise more money for the club than donating.

And we dont know YET if he will donate extra anyway.

Hasnt stopped people slating him.

Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing.

Every single club does it via various methods.

Its not like the money is buying him a holiday home.

He has pledged it will go towards building a better team.

Which.........(drum roll) benefits all supporters.

The part I dont get is you praise Badger but essentially he and I agree on virtually everything.

You and the NCISA ilk just cannot get your head around the fact that supporting the long term future of the club is somehow a resounding endorsment of the board.

We as supporters have to be smarter and less emotional than this.

Often battles are won with brains rather than brawn.

[ca 1]

[quote user="USAcanary"]Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing..[/quote]

I renewed my season ticket for 3 years in March 2007 and paid the whole amount over £1200 upfront to help them raise funds, what contribution have you made?

 

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing..[/quote]

I renewed my season ticket for 3 years in March 2007 and paid the whole amount over £1200 upfront to help them raise funds, what contribution have you made?

 

[/quote]

A fool and his/her money are easily parted.  [:P]

[Time to go Delia 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing..[/quote]

I renewed my season ticket for 3 years in March 2007 and paid the whole amount over £1200 upfront to help them raise funds, what contribution have you made?

 

[/quote] Come on USA answer the lady .

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing..[/quote]

I renewed my season ticket for 3 years in March 2007 and paid the whole amount over £1200 upfront to help them raise funds, what contribution have you made?

 

[/quote]

Yuck.......... pure d**k swinging.

Totally irrellevent to the issues at hand of course...... totally expected.

I already quoted my yearly contributions in the NCISA thread.

As I stated I have a decent amount of shares in the club.

I will say I have contributed a sum FAR FAR greater than the 1200 you quoted.

Anything else PERSONAL you want to know.

You and Mr Tilson seem to like all the personal details.

You need to show a little more class.

Stick to debating facts rather than trying to pick holes in those asking the questions.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Loan City Fc "][quote user="cityangel"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]Yourself and others act like him trying to raise money from supporters is a bad thing..[/quote]

I renewed my season ticket for 3 years in March 2007 and paid the whole amount over £1200 upfront to help them raise funds, what contribution have you made?

 

[/quote] Come on USA answer the lady .[/quote]

When I debate an issue, I only respect opponents who use logic and facts.

Those who use abuse and unrelated personal issues to make their points have already lost.

[can u sit down please 0]

they are not getting my money! £70 is how much it cost me to do the day trip to charlton! It''s the least they can do!

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Bobert,

Creating shares is not related to the debt. In theory an infinite number of shares can be created so long as this is approved by a AGM or EGM. Of course, this question is academic given that the majority of shares are concentrated in the hands of a few individuals. If the Wynn-Jones approve it, Foulger can convet his invetsment into fresh equity, but they expect the fans to just gift their contribution.

[/quote]

No its not like that because NCFC is a Public Limited Company ...........also I think the FA have rules about ratios. I remeber Neil Doncaster giving an explanation a couple of years ago.

[JuanVelasco 27]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...

The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.

[/quote]

Im sure you have great intentions, but this is a stupid idea. Considering a huge amount of the crowd are under 18 and therefore unable to purchase shares, and considering that all under 12s actually only pay £25 for a season ticket..... giving a rebate of £6.25.

We know that the total value of rebate (if everybody took it) is £600k. Therefore you are basically asking the fans to cough up another £1.5m in a recession, and then assuming that Foulger can afford to effectively just give £2.1m away.

Quite frankly, that is the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever seen!

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="ryan85k"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.[/quote]

Im sure you have great intentions, but this is a stupid idea. Considering a huge amount of the crowd are under 18 and therefore unable to purchase shares, and considering that all under 12s actually only pay £25 for a season ticket..... giving a rebate of £6.25.

We know that the total value of rebate (if everybody took it) is £600k. Therefore you are basically asking the fans to cough up another £1.5m in a recession, and then assuming that Foulger can afford to effectively just give £2.1m away.

Quite frankly, that is the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever seen!

[/quote]Oh dear!!! I obviously should have littered my posts with smiley faces and exclamation marks!!!!!! A bit like this!!!!!!!!! As I have already said, my cunning plan was a Saturday evening wheeze and meant to be taken about as seriously as one of Baldrick''s more hare-brained schemes. I have the suspicion other posters understood that.However, as it happens, at least one poster (Gazzathegreat I think) has indicated she might use the rebate to buy shares. In that case, assuming Gazza''s rebate is under £120, IF Foulger could be persuaded to go along with Badger''s original idea, then that would raise money money for the club than matching the rebate. The same would apply to me, as someone who is vaguely thinking about the same course of action. And there is here a possible link with the idea of the Supporters'' Trust increasing its shareholding in the club.In short, essentially a bit of fun, but with a half-serious idea lurking around there somewhere as well.

[JuanVelasco 27]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ryan85k"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t have a fag packet to hand on which to make the precise calculations, but I suspect that the really cunning thing to do would actually be for everybody to claim the rebate and put it towards the £120 needed for the minimum four shares and for Foulger to have to match THAT. Ie, more than 18,000 £120s. That comes to £2.1m, so a grand total of £4.2m...

The club would need to create more shares to cope but not so many as to have an effect on majority control.

[/quote]

Im sure you have great intentions, but this is a stupid idea. Considering a huge amount of the crowd are under 18 and therefore unable to purchase shares, and considering that all under 12s actually only pay £25 for a season ticket..... giving a rebate of £6.25.

We know that the total value of rebate (if everybody took it) is £600k. Therefore you are basically asking the fans to cough up another £1.5m in a recession, and then assuming that Foulger can afford to effectively just give £2.1m away.

Quite frankly, that is the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever seen!

[/quote]

Oh dear!!! I obviously should have littered my posts with smiley faces and exclamation marks!!!!!! A bit like this!!!!!!!!! As I have already said, my cunning plan was a Saturday evening wheeze and meant to be taken about as seriously as one of Baldrick''s more hare-brained schemes. I have the suspicion other posters understood that.

However, as it happens, at least one poster (Gazzathegreat I think) has indicated she might use the rebate to buy shares. In that case, assuming Gazza''s rebate is under £120, IF Foulger could be persuaded to go along with Badger''s original idea, then that would raise money money for the club than matching the rebate. The same would apply to me, as someone who is vaguely thinking about the same course of action. And there is here a possible link with the idea of the Supporters'' Trust increasing its shareholding in the club.

In short, essentially a bit of fun, but with a half-serious idea lurking around there somewhere as well.[/quote]

Oh I see! I guess your comedy was just missing the hoards of plaudits rushing to congratulate you on your masterstroke [^o)]

As it happens, I think that buying shares is an excellent idea, and I myself have said that I will be doing just that. The club is getting my money, and I am very so slightly diluting Delias shareholding...... perfect solution...... knowing that if any potential investor came along trying to snap up shares from people like me I would happily hand them over for 1p each.

 

 

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Badger, yes good stuff!

Not sure that many of those who wish to claim will be buying shares though, but at least it''s a start. I will be adding something to the same effect to my form when I take it to the Ticket Office tomorrow.

I think you know my personal feelings on this, but it''s the way I am going anyway. Down to Barratt and Cooke''s.

Sadly, on receiving the letter from Mr Foulger (with form to complete) I read my DD instalments will not be altered until August. Oh well, I will have to buy them from my own pocket then and use the savings each month for an away trip, possibly. But in principle, the broad feeling of your letter mirrors what I will be doing anyway.

As I have said, I am using the rebate claim opportunity simply to tell the directors I am not happy with the way they are running the club. They haven''t listened to the fans for years, the opportunities some of us have taken at AGMs, forums and such like has led to anyone showing dissent/difference in view from the board being treated with disdain and openly patronised.

Once the board have taken steps to rectify their past policies and involve others on the board with some idea as to how to run NCFC in a fit and proper manner, I will be more than happy to spend more money there. Hopefully this step will in turn lead to the new board appointing a manager who can take us forwards as well.

Until then I will buy shares, which at present doesn''t dent the 66% majority shareholding, but does give us a chance to become shareholders/and increase the shareholding base amongst ordinary supporters.

The AGM is a good night out as well! lol