Player budget 09/10

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Secondly I''ve assumed that only around half of those cutbacks would

come from the player budget as non-player expenditure would also be

required to be cut back - say a round figure of £3.5m.[/quote]Does anyone have any idea what impact not having Eventguard and the travel shop in the accounts will have this time around ?

[LQ 0]

Very little from what I can gather.Selling Eventguard for what they did was a masterstroke (a meagre profit of £20k in its last year) and I''m not convinced the Travel Shop brought in much in the way of funds - it didn''t ''cost'' as such but contributed little. 

[Ankles50 0]

Using this as a guide

L1 GK £53,500
L1 Def £61,000
L1 Mid £79,000
L1 Fwd £75,000

Lets assume inflation etc mean 80k a year

A squad requires 24players, 3 keepers and 2 of each position + a utility to make 24

80 * 24 = 1.92mill

It really depends if we can pick up the right players on a free, low transfer & stop paying out daft sums to agents how much higher it has to be than 2.5mill really

[blahblahblah 2]

I doubt that the likes of Doherty, Stefanovic, etc will be playing for us next season for 80k per year.  And that''s where the problem is - We''re going to find out very quickly who actually wants to play for us.  Last time we were relegated, very few of the premiership players hung around.

[Ankles50 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I doubt that the likes of Doherty, Stefanovic, etc will be playing for us next season for 80k per year.  And that''s where the problem is - We''re going to find out very quickly who actually wants to play for us.  Last time we were relegated, very few of the premiership players hung around.
[/quote]

Then get rid of 1, we don''t need to old expensive pro''s at the back, 1 high earning will be enough

Does anyone know if the condition of salary decrease on relegation is part of all playing staff contracts at NCFC?

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="LQ"]Thanks Hairy - glad someone took the time to read it!


[/quote]

Always read not always agree[:D]

What about revenue from additional matches, cup earlier, paint trophy, etc.

It would not be surprising IF perhaps we had a few more games than last year

Casual tickets might sell if you know you can actually turn up and get in to a game like the "old days", they are a much better return for the club than cheaper season tickets.

The outside catering surely does not rely on what league we are in does it as it has no relationship to the football.

I still think there are many items of revenue AND many more of expenditure that could alter that loss considerably.

Investment in a succesful team, whatever the league, will attract the fans that like seeing a winning side.

So prudence or ambition this year they can''t get away with both!!

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I doubt that the likes of Doherty, Stefanovic, etc will be playing for us next season for 80k per year.  And that''s where the problem is - We''re going to find out very quickly who actually wants to play for us.  Last time we were relegated, very few of the premiership players hung around.
[/quote]

Hung around Blah, you could hear the engines running when the fifth goal went in!

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]What about revenue from additional matches, cup earlier, paint trophy, etc.[/quote]It will probably cost more to open the ground for the paint trophy matches than the amount raised from attendance.  If that competition wanted to do us a favour, it would give us all away matches.Mind you, we are good at underperforming in the FA Cup, maybe that form will rub off on us...

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]What about revenue from additional matches, cup earlier, paint trophy, etc.[/quote]

It will probably cost more to open the ground for the paint trophy matches than the amount raised from attendance.  If that competition wanted to do us a favour, it would give us all away matches.

Mind you, we are good at underperforming in the FA Cup, maybe that form will rub off on us...
[/quote]

Not if you get a run going,then it''s quickly brushed to one side. Still we can gloss over that!

[LQ 0]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="LQ"]Thanks Hairy - glad someone took the time to read it!

[/quote]

Always read not always agree[:D]

What about revenue from additional matches, cup earlier, paint trophy, etc.

It would not be surprising IF perhaps we had a few more games than last year

Casual tickets might sell if you know you can actually turn up and get in to a game like the "old days", they are a much better return for the club than cheaper season tickets.

The outside catering surely does not rely on what league we are in does it as it has no relationship to the football.

I still think there are many items of revenue AND many more of expenditure that could alter that loss considerably.

Investment in a succesful team, whatever the league, will attract the fans that like seeing a winning side.

So prudence or ambition this year they can''t get away with both!!

 

[/quote]Not always agree??? I''m wracking my brain to think if we ever did! [;)]I''m not convinced cup games will bring in much at all unless we get to seriously late stages (I''ll give history the benefit of irony here...) and goes with my next point re budgetting.The problem with casual tickets is that you can''t budget for them isn''t it. The budget will be what can be relatively securely guaranteed - anything else is commercial suicide.Catering was a reference to matchday catering - less people through the doors equals less pies and beers equals less profit. Try as I might I just can''t eat for two [:P]My worry with the budgeting for the new season is that between half and one million will have to be ''saved'' from the non-playing staff. That''s a whole lot of jobs and coincidentally around the figure of the rebate! Blackmail? I don''t know. Gambling with the security of the normal boys and girls at Carrow Road? Possibly. Whichever it is there''ll be plenty of unhappy faces around this city come August - even if we''re winning on the pitch.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="LQ"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="LQ"]Thanks Hairy - glad someone took the time to read it!


[/quote]

Always read not always agree[:D]

What about revenue from additional matches, cup earlier, paint trophy, etc.

It would not be surprising IF perhaps we had a few more games than last year

Casual tickets might sell if you know you can actually turn up and get in to a game like the "old days", they are a much better return for the club than cheaper season tickets.

The outside catering surely does not rely on what league we are in does it as it has no relationship to the football.

I still think there are many items of revenue AND many more of expenditure that could alter that loss considerably.

Investment in a succesful team, whatever the league, will attract the fans that like seeing a winning side.

So prudence or ambition this year they can''t get away with both!!

 

[/quote]

Not always agree??? I''m wracking my brain to think if we ever did! [;)]

I''m not convinced cup games will bring in much at all unless we get to seriously late stages (I''ll give history the benefit of irony here...) and goes with my next point re budgetting.

The problem with casual tickets is that you can''t budget for them isn''t it. The budget will be what can be relatively securely guaranteed - anything else is commercial suicide.

Catering was a reference to matchday catering - less people through the doors equals less pies and beers equals less profit. Try as I might I just can''t eat for two [:P]

My worry with the budgeting for the new season is that between half and one million will have to be ''saved'' from the non-playing staff. That''s a whole lot of jobs and coincidentally around the figure of the rebate! Blackmail? I don''t know. Gambling with the security of the normal boys and girls at Carrow Road? Possibly. Whichever it is there''ll be plenty of unhappy faces around this city come August - even if we''re winning on the pitch.


[/quote]

You don''t hear from me when we agree[:D]

That statement is the reason why some wanted the season ticket money moved to casual as it took the board from the comfort zone and perhaps the fans less for granted.

Don''t bet on the cup games, as I say, a run and a bit of success can work wonders for the Norfolk fan base.

I will be interested to see the final season ticket figures as we are still months from the first game and time is a great healer.

With a little clever marketing ie a good signing or two, the mood changes and the money comes in.

Speculate to accumulate is the order for this season, to be honest how much worse could they make it!

[LQ 0]

The trouble with being "out of the comfort zone" though is that you can''t economically budget successfully can you? You can''t allocate money you hope to get in against the faith that if it doesn''t someone will bail you out (that''ll be that wicked woman again!!)Speculate to accumulate is fine - funnily enough my first few grand was made selling t-shirts in London emblazoned with "Speculate Don''t Hesitate" but that''s another story... and no, it would be hard to make things worse. But right now, right this minute I''m more concerned with the people who will be very really affected by the no-shows on the pitch last year. Although it may hurt me as a fan to have to watch League One at least I''m not looking at redundancy because of it.Sorry, got a bit serious there.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="LQ"]The trouble with being "out of the comfort zone" though is that you can''t economically budget successfully can you? You can''t allocate money you hope to get in against the faith that if it doesn''t someone will bail you out (that''ll be that wicked woman again!!)

Speculate to accumulate is fine - funnily enough my first few grand was made selling t-shirts in London emblazoned with "Speculate Don''t Hesitate" but that''s another story... and no, it would be hard to make things worse. But right now, right this minute I''m more concerned with the people who will be very really affected by the no-shows on the pitch last year. Although it may hurt me as a fan to have to watch League One at least I''m not looking at redundancy because of it.

Sorry, got a bit serious there.


[/quote]

I''m pleased to here you arn''t.

Several of my clients in the financial sector  have gone this year taking many staff with them!

If any business in this economic climate can be certain of their revenue then they are in a lucky position.

They are in the entertainment business (ha ha) and very few can be certain of levels of income (even M Jackson is having a few problems) but you stand a greater chance of success if you have "the following" with you. You do not set out to alienate the very people who''s money you want.

When you own a business the buck stops with you, so if you "cock it up" you are the one to pay up sorry DS thats a fact of life. Or try and get out and find someone who will.

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="LQ"]

The player budget is precisely that, the player budget.

Last accounts showed £6.7million on player wages plus just over £2

million on transfer fees/costs. In addition to this the first team

management and coaching costs were £1.2 million but I ignored them as

they, and other staff wages, don''t come out of the player budget. It

does include player wages/transfer fees/agents costs.[/quote]From the official site: LINK''Profits on player trading increased from £2.5million to £3.5million.

Players sold during the year included Chris Brown, Jurgen Colin, Robert

Earnshaw, Dickson Etuhu, Andy Hughes, Joe Lewis and Youseff Safri''.Who to believe eh, the club or the club?[quote user="LQ"]

plus just over £2

million on transfer fees/costs. [/quote]But Munby stated a profit on player trading of £3.5m during this period.So the club have produced figures stating that the player budget is £8.7m (6.7 + 2) yet the club also have stated that we made a profit on transfers during the same period so where the £2m net spend came from is anyones guess because the amount spent on transfer/fees costs should according to Munby have been - (minus) £3.5 million  .This LQ is why you will be questioned whenever you post figures on this board even if the figures you post come directly from the club.

[LQ 0]

Sorry Buckethead maybe I could have been clearer.We were told that the player budget for last season (ie June 08 to May 09) was £8.5 million reduced from £10 million when the Turners left. Unfortunately the only figures any of us have to work from are effectively from the previous year. I was going for an "all things being equal" tack as to how I got my figures for potential losses whilst trying to explain to Smudger what is included in the ''player budget''.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Nothing like £4 million LQ, and completely dependent on who we sell and how much for. [/quote]

I came up with an estimate of £4m plus receipts from player sales (unless they are of course diverted into new tangible fixed assets!)

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Nothing like £4 million LQ, and completely dependent on who we sell and how much for. [/quote]

I came up with an estimate of £4m plus receipts from player sales (unless they are of course diverted into new tangible fixed assets!)

[/quote]They wouldn''t dare.

[ca 1]

So quite a few of us think about £4m then so if we have a first team squad of say 25 thats £160k average per player divided by 52 weeks which comes to just over £3k per week which sounds about right doesn''t it. Some experienced players may get a bit more and some of the kids will get less.

Have I done my sums right?

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

So quite a few of us think about £4m then so if we have a first team squad of say 25 thats £160k average per player divided by 52 weeks which comes to just over £3k per week which sounds about right doesn''t it. Some experienced players may get a bit more and some of the kids will get less.

Have I done my sums right?

[/quote]

That sounds about right to me for League One.  But you can do it on less than that - choice of players is more important than money in my opinion.  Sleeves rolled up, put it about a bit.  It is not a thugs league but it is gutsy and combative.  What you cannot have in League One are people who think they can just stroll about.  They have to turn up every game otherwise any team will be in trouble.

I know you do not want to be there but if you get a good team together some of you may enjoy your games.  It''s deliciously old fashioned sometimes. Many goals from set pieces so a good solid defence is a must.

[ca 1]

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="cityangel"]

So quite a few of us think about £4m then so if we have a first team squad of say 25 thats £160k average per player divided by 52 weeks which comes to just over £3k per week which sounds about right doesn''t it. Some experienced players may get a bit more and some of the kids will get less.

Have I done my sums right?

[/quote]

That sounds about right to me for League One.  But you can do it on less than that - choice of players is more important than money in my opinion.  Sleeves rolled up, put it about a bit.  It is not a thugs league but it is gutsy and combative.  What you cannot have in League One are people who think they can just stroll about.  They have to turn up every game otherwise any team will be in trouble.

I know you do not want to be there but if you get a good team together some of you may enjoy your games.  It''s deliciously old fashioned sometimes. Many goals from set pieces so a good solid defence is a must.

[/quote]

 

Yes it will be nice to see us win a few games plus the players who come in will actually want to play for us unlike some of the wasters we had last season.

Agree about the solid defence, Hucks said exactly the same in his recent interview, get 4 strong experienced defenders and build your team around them.

 

[Pete Raven 276]

[quote user="cityangel"]

Agree about the solid defence, Hucks said exactly the same in his recent interview, get 4 strong experienced defenders and build your team around them.

[/quote]

Doc and Taylor in the middle, Drury on the left and someone else on the right, job done!

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="cityangel"]

So quite a few of us think about £4m then so if we have a first team squad of say 25 thats £160k average per player divided by 52 weeks which comes to just over £3k per week which sounds about right doesn''t it. Some experienced players may get a bit more and some of the kids will get less.

Have I done my sums right?

[/quote]

That sounds about right to me for League One.  But you can do it on less than that - choice of players is more important than money in my opinion.  Sleeves rolled up, put it about a bit.  It is not a thugs league but it is gutsy and combative.  What you cannot have in League One are people who think they can just stroll about.  They have to turn up every game otherwise any team will be in trouble.

I know you do not want to be there but if you get a good team together some of you may enjoy your games.  It''s deliciously old fashioned sometimes. Many goals from set pieces so a good solid defence is a must.

[/quote]

 

Yes it will be nice to see us win a few games plus the players who come in will actually want to play for us unlike some of the wasters we had last season.

Agree about the solid defence, Hucks said exactly the same in his recent interview, get 4 strong experienced defenders and build your team around them.

 

[/quote]

The defence is absolutely crucial.  Hopefully Butterworth will know that.  I know it''s not pretty but this league requires an ability to go 1-0 or 2-1 up and then close it down.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

If its less than £4m they can f**k off. Doncaster said our break even point was a wage bill of about £4.5m last season. Revenues will not fall that much. Sts have held up. We may get more away fans than in the champ last season to be honest. Sponsorship will be down a bit but so equally should staff costs be. Finally as far as i can make out this £2m for tv revenues is a complete red herring as that is a new deal for NEXT season and not what we got last. I stand to be corrected on that though if wrong. Basically i expect us to have a budget in the top 3 or 4 in the division and will feel let down if we dont!

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]If its less than £4m they can f**k off. Doncaster said our break even point was a wage bill of about £4.5m last season. Revenues will not fall that much. Sts have held up. We may get more away fans than in the champ last season to be honest. Sponsorship will be down a bit but so equally should staff costs be. Finally as far as i can make out this £2m for tv revenues is a complete red herring as that is a new deal for NEXT season and not what we got last. I stand to be corrected on that though if wrong. Basically i expect us to have a budget in the top 3 or 4 in the division and will feel let down if we dont![/quote]

League One depends more on how much the players are up for it rather than what the wage bill is.

Just my opinion.  Millwall''s team[+o(] is not £4m a season.  It''s the mix what done it, not the wage bill.

How many of the Millwall playoff squad are....errr.....famous names?

http://www.millwallfc.co.uk/page/TeamHome/0,,10367,00.html

(Leaving aside Zak''s 71 defender fouls that is).  Not many are there?  But some could be off to the Championship.

[Rustys 1st Touch 0]

To be honest Millwall have got to the playoffs mainly thanks to Kenny Jackett who has a great knowledge of League One.Expecting a novice manager to be able to build a good League One team is a bit risky.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]If its less than £4m they can f**k off. Doncaster said our break even point was a wage bill of about £4.5m last season. Revenues will not fall that much. Sts have held up. We may get more away fans than in the champ last season to be honest. Sponsorship will be down a bit but so equally should staff costs be. Finally as far as i can make out this £2m for tv revenues is a complete red herring as that is a new deal for NEXT season and not what we got last. I stand to be corrected on that though if wrong. Basically i expect us to have a budget in the top 3 or 4 in the division and will feel let down if we dont![/quote]

League One depends more on how much the players are up for it rather than what the wage bill is.

Just my opinion.  Millwall''s team[+o(] is not £4m a season.  It''s the mix what done it, not the wage bill.

How many of the Millwall playoff squad are....errr.....famous names?

http://www.millwallfc.co.uk/page/TeamHome/0,,10367,00.html

(Leaving aside Zak''s 71 defender fouls that is).  Not many are there?  But some could be off to the Championship.

[/quote]yeah, but it''s not as easy as buying the best of the conference and winning. Players with higher wages are bought for a reason, it just so happens Millwall have done well or got lucky. We don''t need to be looking at it like that until we''ve been down here a couple of years yet.You could argue we should have the biggest budget out of anyone this year in this league. Apart from the anomaly of MK Dons. Leeds, Southampton and Charlton are struggling with debts of a different level to ours and the rest of the clubs are not of our stature with full respect to them.

[ACE 0]

Whatever the arguments over the figure.  The bottom line is that we will have one of the largest wage structures in L1, which is plenty enough.However, do we have any cash for the transfer fees we will need to get some of these players in?And as people have said, getting the tactics, and blend right is key, which does not cost money.  Well actually it does, if you go for an experienced management team....

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Lupo Loop"]To be honest Millwall have got to the playoffs mainly thanks to Kenny Jackett who has a great knowledge of League One.

Expecting a novice manager to be able to build a good League One team is a bit risky.
[/quote]

Butterworth *should* have a good knowledge of League One.  He spent six or seven years there.  It hasn''t changed much.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="ACE"]Whatever the arguments over the figure.  The bottom line is that we will have one of the largest wage structures in L1, which is plenty enough.However, do we have any cash for the transfer fees we will need to get some of these players in?And as people have said, getting the tactics, and blend right is key, which does not cost money.  Well actually it does, if you go for an experienced management team....[/quote]It does cost money , because the more you spend on a player, the more likely in general they are to do better (excluding bosmans, contract situations, transfer listed players, cost cutting measures, foreign markets e.t.c.)This is why we need to get players who have the market value but won''t cost too much to buy (bosmans and the like)

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]

[quote user="Lupo Loop"]To be honest Millwall have got to the playoffs mainly thanks to Kenny Jackett who has a great knowledge of League One.Expecting a novice manager to be able to build a good League One team is a bit risky.[/quote]

Butterworth *should* have a good knowledge of League One.  He spent six or seven years there.  It hasn''t changed much.

[/quote]I haven''t got much of a clue about league 1, but i do know we need a decent front pairing more than anything.