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LQ

Player budget 09/10

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I''ve seen a few comments on here today about what people think the player budget for next season will be.The couple that spring to mind seem to be around the £4 million mark - last season it was £8.5 million.I''m interested to hear any variations on this if anyone fancies having a guess (and bear in mind we''re already around £6 million down on last year''s revenue with lower TV money and fewer Season Tickets sold at a potentially lower price)?So what do you think?

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[quote user="LQ"]I''ve seen a few comments on here today about what people think the player budget for next season will be.The couple that spring to mind seem to be around the £4 million mark - last season it was £8.5 million.I''m interested to hear any variations on this if anyone fancies having a guess (and bear in mind we''re already around £6 million down on last year''s revenue with lower TV money and fewer Season Tickets sold at a potentially lower price)?So what do you think?

[/quote]

100 grand and a night out in delias restaurant !

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well....Gunn hasnt made any moves yet so he''s probably looking to benefit from Crook''s month long holiday in OZ! More David Carney''s.....Brilliant!

Sorry LQ....i just cant think straight anymore! [:(]

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Nothing like £4 million LQ, and completely dependent on who we sell and how much for. I don''t suppose some of the culpable and guilty could donate could they?

That includes you, Mr Doncaster. You are guilty for our plight, but hey, why not pin it on everyone else, including the fans claiming their rebate.

I don''t expect to see anyone signed with any sort of pedigree or name at all. A couple of players from lower leagues with a bit of talent and potential, other than that we will be using the academy team and anyone who doesn''t get sold/their contracts paid off. Reality starting to bite, at least at Colney.

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[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Nothing like £4 million LQ, and completely dependent on who we sell and how much for. I don''t suppose some of the culpable and guilty could donate could they? That includes you, Mr Doncaster. You are guilty for our plight, but hey, why not pin it on everyone else, including the fans claiming their rebate. I don''t expect to see anyone signed with any sort of pedigree or name at all. A couple of players from lower leagues with a bit of talent and potential, other than that we will be using the academy team and anyone who doesn''t get sold/their contracts paid off. Reality starting to bite, at least at Colney.[/quote]

I agree with that and that''s why i''m so surprised to see that the bookies seem to think were a good bet for promotion next season, clearly they haven''t done their homework because unless their is drastic changes at the club between now and next season, we will do well to finish in the top half. Sorry but that''s realistic!

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This isn''t a sniping thread thanks. I am seriously interested in what figures people think we''ll have available.Thanks Gazza and co. CUSDP - I understand it''s late to be talking figures. Sleep on it!! [;)]

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[quote user="LQ"]I''ve seen a few comments on here today about what people think the player budget for next season will be.The couple that spring to mind seem to be around the £4 million mark - last season it was £8.5 million.I''m interested to hear any variations on this if anyone fancies having a guess (and bear in mind we''re already around £6 million down on last year''s revenue with lower TV money and fewer Season Tickets sold at a potentially lower price)?So what do you think?

[/quote]You''re in bed with the club/board you tell us...

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

The budget is irrelevent, we''re screwed big time and in free fall.

Only possible outcome = Relegation.

[/quote]Yes, that''s the only possible outcome.. [:|]

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[quote user="LQ"]I''ve seen a few comments on here today about what people think the player budget for next season will be.

The couple that spring to mind seem to be around the £4 million mark - last season it was £8.5 million.

I''m interested to hear any variations on this if anyone fancies having a guess (and bear in mind we''re already around £6 million down on last year''s revenue with lower TV money and fewer Season Tickets sold at a potentially lower price)?

So what do you think?





[/quote]

Obviously I have no idea what your budget is for League One but £4m would put you pretty much at the top end of player spend.  I would say that many teams are around £3m but many survive on far less than that - Yeovil, for example, are well under £2m but that''s why the last Manager walked so that is probably not a good example. 

In theory, of course, spend more do better except that football does not always work like that.  An astute choice of players in this Division is more important in my view.

Key elements: people who can "mix it", a regular squad if possible and a squad who can change their game.  Contrary to many views that this is some sort of Village Idiots League it is not.  It is quite possible to play good on the ground football but you won''t get much time on the ball and so it has to be done very quickly.  Sometimes conditions are not conducive to playing on the ground - or you meet a side just intent on stopping you playing "nice" football - and that''s when you may need to change your game to lumping it.

A hell of a lot of goals in League One are scored from set pieces and so a very solid and reliable defence is an absolute necessity.

Even if Mr G doesn''t have a clue, Butterworth has spent quite a while in this League and will know what the requirements are hopefully.

It will be a tough and exciting League this season.  Leeds will almost certainly still be strong (although by no means unbeatable) although they may well lose Beckford and I think Huddersfield could be dark horses because Clark is being given money to spend and he''s done okay since he got there.

Getting the right people is more important than the total wage bill in my view but that is just an opinion.

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[quote user="LQ"]This isn''t a sniping thread thanks. I am seriously interested in what figures people think we''ll have available.

Thanks Gazza and co. CUSDP - I understand it''s late to be talking figures. Sleep on it!! [;)]




[/quote]

When the £8.5 million figures were pure bull to begin with LQ what is the point of raising that as a point to measure this years budget by?

I guess that we will spend whatever it takes to keep the restaurants open (as we include non player finance in our annual budget for players) and that we will spend approx 10% of what we receive on player sales (as we have done for the last few seasons)???

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I was thinking about £4m but maybe £3.5m is more realistic.

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If it was £8.5million last year and we overspent by £6m, then I guess approx £2-£2.5m, less a max. rebate to season ticket holders of approx. £500,000 means a budget of between £1.5-2m

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[quote user="Ex-greenoschin"]If it was £8.5million last year and we overspent by £6m, then I guess approx £2-£2.5m, less a max. rebate to season ticket holders of approx. £500,000 means a budget of between £1.5-2m[/quote]

 

But surely some of the contracted players we have left are earning more than that even with their % reduction for dropping a league?

Doc, Drury, Sammy, Wes, Rusty, Semmy, Jamie to name a few who must still be on at least £5kpw thats £1.75m before you buy anyone.

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Another factor would be the reduction in player wages as a result of relegation. For example it could be a 10% deduction in their salary. This would have ramifications on our budget. I think I read somewhere that Carlisle had a wage bill of about 2 million so we would probably need to half the wage bill if not more. I''d go with about 4 million.At a guess I would say players like Cureton, Stefanovic and Hoolahan would be on the largest wages. I think Doherty was offered less money when he signed his new contract. My issue is how we are going to get the players who contributed nothing last season off the wage bill, who would want Otsemobor, Cureton or Drury. As far as I''m concerned their the biggest burden on the club because they are not going to generate any revenue from sales.

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Firstly i''d refute your comment lQ about big drop in revenues due to Season Ticket sales, even with rebate paid back (should all take it) the income is substantial

The fundemental starting point for player budget starts at whether

1. We unload the biggest earners at the club (let''s be honest who on the playing staff earned their wages last season?)

2. How many of the players are contractually obliged to take reduction in salary on relegation

The starting point at the beginning of 08/09 season was one of hideously over budget wages wise and the bringing in of premiership squad players on loan will only have exacerbated that. 

The season coming we really needed someone tuned into the lower league players to know the type of player we need to put together a campaign that currently play at this level, and so meet a Div 3 wage budget

I''d honestly say if ruthless enough with current squad & active enough in lower league transfer playing budget, thats fee''s, ageant & wages should not top 3million.

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[quote user="LQ"]This isn''t a sniping thread thanks. I am seriously interested in what figures people think we''ll have available.

Thanks Gazza and co. CUSDP - I understand it''s late to be talking figures. Sleep on it!! [;)]




[/quote]

Every thread is a sniping thread. I''m amazed at the amount of irrelevant comments that exist in the majority of threads. It''s as though people set themselves some sort of target to get their "point for the day" across no matter where and in what context.

Anyway - budget - how many beans in the jar? £4.5m so I''m led to believe...

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[quote user="LQ"]This isn''t a sniping thread thanks. I am seriously interested in what figures people think we''ll have available.

Thanks Gazza and co. CUSDP - I understand it''s late to be talking figures. Sleep on it!! [;)]




[/quote]

Every thread is a sniping thread. I''m amazed at the amount of irrelevant comments that exist in the majority of threads. It''s as though people set themselves some sort of target to get their "point for the day" across no matter where and in what context.

Anyway - budget - how many beans in the jar? £4.5m so I''m led to believe...

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[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="LQ"]This isn''t a sniping thread thanks. I am seriously interested in what figures people think we''ll have available.

Thanks Gazza and co. CUSDP - I understand it''s late to be talking figures. Sleep on it!! [;)]




[/quote]

When the £8.5 million figures were pure bull to begin with LQ what is the point of raising that as a point to measure this years budget by?

I guess that we will spend whatever it takes to keep the restaurants open (as we include non player finance in our annual budget for players) and that we will spend approx 10% of what we receive on player sales (as we have done for the last few seasons)???

[/quote]

Are you not going to answer this question then LQ?

£8.5 million does of course include all non-playing staff at Carrow Road doesn''t it?

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One small correction Smudger after last seasons performance who can you say should have been on the player budget?

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[quote user="The Butler"]

One small correction Smudger after last seasons performance who can you say should have been on the player budget?

[/quote]

Who are you referring to?

Mr Doncaster by any chance?  His salary was certainly big enough!

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Considering that Gunn is unsure about being able to sign Alan Lee, the Board have promised ''a League One budget'', Spillaine and Martin have been recalled and that the manager has taken every opportunity to big up the Academy (plus Kelly''s contract) I would surmise that our spending power is extremely limited!

I''m not imaging many new faces arriving before game one.

Expect to see raw teenagers and naf players from last season that we couldn''t flog making up our squad for 2010-2011. 

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Sorry for missing your point Smudger.

I stated the player budget for the season just passed as a comparison figure in case anyone needed something to work from.

The player budget is precisely that, the player budget.

Last accounts showed £6.7million on player wages plus just over £2

million on transfer fees/costs. In addition to this the first team

management and coaching costs were £1.2 million but I ignored them as

they, and other staff wages, don''t come out of the player budget. It

does include player wages/transfer fees/agents costs.The last available accounts also showed an overall loss for the Club of £2.7 million.

The £6 million loss I predicted initially is based on League payment losses of around £2 million, season ticket, casual ticket and matchday spend losses of around £2.5 million (based on the NCISA straw poll of 75% of ST holders taking their rebate) and around £1.5 million in losses relating to sponsorship and advertising.All other things being equal we''d be looking at a loss of £8.7 million for the year if the player budget remained at £8.5 million - which obviously it can''t. A player budget of £4 million (stated by TangibleFixedAssets and CityAngel initially on other threads I believe) gives us an operating loss of £4.2 million.Does that answer your point about why I stated last season''s player budget? And does it also answer your point about what is included?It perhaps also demonstrates mine about why I''m not taking the rebate?Still, as long as that (and I''ll paraphrase here) ''evil witch who wants to destroy our Club and the two Micks'' keep digging into their pockets we won''t go into oblivion! How very dare she!!![8-|]

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The Independents'' player wage survey in 2006 had these average salaries for playersPrem Goalkeeper £533,000 Prem Def £653,000 Prem Mid £754,000 Prem Fwd £806,000 Champs GK £179,500 Champs Def £167,000 Champs Mid £185,950 Champs Fwd £292,900 L1 GK £53,500 L1 Def £61,000 L1 Mid £79,000 L1 Fwd £75,000 L2 GK £45,900

L2 Def £44,400

L2 Mid £46,800

L2 Fwd £67,900

Overall £676,000 £195,750 £67,850 £49,600Assuming these salaries haven''t changed much in 2 seasons (a dangerous assumption), I''d argue that you can put together a decent team with 4 million in wages - maybe enough to retain a championship standard player or two.

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[quote user="LQ"]Sorry for missing your point Smudger.

I stated the player budget for the season just passed as a comparison figure in case anyone needed something to work from.

The player budget is precisely that, the player budget.

Last accounts showed £6.7million on player wages plus just over £2 million on transfer fees/costs. In addition to this the first team management and coaching costs were £1.2 million but I ignored them as they, and other staff wages, don''t come out of the player budget. It does include player wages/transfer fees/agents costs.

The last available accounts also showed an overall loss for the Club of £2.7 million.

The £6 million loss I predicted initially is based on League payment losses of around £2 million, season ticket, casual ticket and matchday spend losses of around £2.5 million (based on the NCISA straw poll of 75% of ST holders taking their rebate) and around £1.5 million in losses relating to sponsorship and advertising.

All other things being equal we''d be looking at a loss of £8.7 million for the year if the player budget remained at £8.5 million - which obviously it can''t. A player budget of £4 million (stated by TangibleFixedAssets and CityAngel initially on other threads I believe) gives us an operating loss of £4.2 million.

Does that answer your point about why I stated last season''s player budget? And does it also answer your point about what is included?

It perhaps also demonstrates mine about why I''m not taking the rebate?

Still, as long as that (and I''ll paraphrase here) ''evil witch who wants to destroy our Club and the two Micks'' keep digging into their pockets we won''t go into oblivion! How very dare she!!!

[8-|]






[/quote]

and you seriously believe those figures, coming from a board that always tells us it is not good to let our opposition know how much we have to spend on players???

How much on agents costs by the way?  [:|]

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I do believe independently audited accounts, yes.

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[quote user="LQ"]Sorry for missing your point Smudger.

I stated the player budget for the season just passed as a comparison figure in case anyone needed something to work from.

The player budget is precisely that, the player budget.

Last accounts showed £6.7million on player wages plus just over £2 million on transfer fees/costs. In addition to this the first team management and coaching costs were £1.2 million but I ignored them as they, and other staff wages, don''t come out of the player budget. It does include player wages/transfer fees/agents costs.

The last available accounts also showed an overall loss for the Club of £2.7 million.

The £6 million loss I predicted initially is based on League payment losses of around £2 million, season ticket, casual ticket and matchday spend losses of around £2.5 million (based on the NCISA straw poll of 75% of ST holders taking their rebate) and around £1.5 million in losses relating to sponsorship and advertising.

All other things being equal we''d be looking at a loss of £8.7 million for the year if the player budget remained at £8.5 million - which obviously it can''t. A player budget of £4 million (stated by TangibleFixedAssets and CityAngel initially on other threads I believe) gives us an operating loss of £4.2 million.

Does that answer your point about why I stated last season''s player budget? And does it also answer your point about what is included?

It perhaps also demonstrates mine about why I''m not taking the rebate?

Still, as long as that (and I''ll paraphrase here) ''evil witch who wants to destroy our Club and the two Micks'' keep digging into their pockets we won''t go into oblivion! How very dare she!!!

[8-|]
[/quote]

I for one found that very useful LQ.

I''ve made a few assumptions in trying to come up with some sort of estimate of next years playing budget (just for fun really because we can''t know anything exactly other than there will be big reductions). Firstly I''ve assumed that the board will input around £2m of their own cash, somewhere around the figures from previous years (leaving us £6.7m of cutbacks to find). Secondly I''ve assumed that only around half of those cutbacks would come from the player budget as non-player expenditure would also be required to be cut back - say a round figure of £3.5m.

That leaves around £5m for player budget. Quite an ambitious figure I would say. Of course our board might have it''s priorities in other more prudent directions. 

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Thanks Hairy - glad someone took the time to read it!

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