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Yellowfuture

Rebates...yet another poor business decision!

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Why on earth did the club decide to offer rebates if we got relegated. I`ll be more than happy to get some of my money back but in truth I dont think many people were persuaded to renew because a rebate was on offer, they would have probably renewed anyway. So the club now may have to cough up over £500k which it needed not do if the correct business decision had been made. 

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In a roundabout way I tried to make this point yesterday.However, a couple of people (long term ST holders no less) assured me that the ONLY reason they renewed for next season was because of the rebate offer.Them and the other 16,500 who all signed up before the first deadline.I try not to take things with a pinch of salt all the time, but in this case perhaps I should!

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No, you made it better than me!I just asked if anyone on here REALLY only signed up early for their ST because of the rebate offer. To be fair the question sort of died with only two people happy to answer, who both said "yes"!There ya go![;)]

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Believe what you want, but it did make a difference for me, I was borderline renewal, my travel costs amount to £40 a game (excluding refreshments), at a time when petrol and food costs were likely to rise, and my salary isn''t and jobs including mine are under threat, the rebate was enough to make my mind up as to what I was prepared to pay for League 1 football, I would have certainly not renewed at the first deadline had it not been available following relegation.

I''m getting thoroughly cheesed off with your attitude towards other people''s money, whilst you can afford to waive your rebate (bully for you) myself and others can''t and won''t. But given your attitude towards increasing season ticket prices you clearly won''t be happy until the likes of me are priced out of going to games.

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There is no doubt in my mind that the biggest factor in the huge numbers renewing every year is the interest free credit. £30 a month for my football fix is pretty good value to me. It''s the equivalent of 3 pints a week even at my cheap prices. Many fans wouldn''t be able to afford/justify £360 up front and in those cases the rebate would make little difference.

 

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Damned if they do..Damned if they don''t. No rebate would have led to posts about how expensive it was to watch League One football compared to all the other teams.

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Amazing StillHoldingOutForNewHeroes.And quite odd because I''m pretty cheesed off about being told what to do with my rebate by NCISA and a whole bunch of people on here who don''t even have a season ticket.I''ll stop expressing my opinion about it though shall I? Way to go!And for the record it''s the interest free option that does it for me every year too. No, I won''t miss a couple of quid a month - sorry if that offends anyone!

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And another thing (because this winds me up) I have consistently said it''s all down to choice. No-one is higher, mightier nor better because they choose one route or another. Unlike NCISA who said - quote from press release - "NCISA are recommending all fans to apply for the rebate." There you go. That''s told you what to do with YOUR money.Bigus, you may have missed a breakdown of what it costs to watch League One football yesterday. It was here:http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/2/1693431/ShowPost.aspx#1693431Surprising.

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It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

LQ If you went into a shop to buy that little black number you always wanted, now it was marked at 20% off(just a small mark that would clean off) and the shopkeeper moaned about the rates and the shop rent etc, would you say OK then I will pay the full price?

No one is telling anyone what decision to make, or are they coming to the club with you to make sure. It''s an advice/wish thing, this is what we THINK people should do for the benefit of the fans (their perception of) The choice is very much yours. Are you not as guilty of trying to persuade people not to take their rebate?

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I see you''ve ignored for the second time in 2 days the point about you wanting to price people such as myself and the rest of the plebs/ hoi polloi out (not sure which fans you are actually representing on the NCISA apart from 2 from Stowmarket)...a few quid extra a month may not be much for you (as you keep pointing out, again bully for you) but it is for the rest of us, and it fact would be the tipping point.

Oh and make up you mind what this rebate money is being used for on previous threads you implied it would be used to give us a chance in League 1, today it''s to save jobs, if you want to lay that particular guilt trip at the door of myself and 18000 others rather than the millionaires who own this club/business prepare to be further amazed by the responses you get...it''s amazing what that 500k is going to be used for, perhaps we could use the change to end world hunger.

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[quote user="The Butler"]

It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

[/quote]

No doubt it''s gonna come eventually Butler but please could you give me a link to where the bigger issue is being made now?

 

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Maybe I ignored it because it doesn''t make sense?Who is trying to price anyone out? Certainly not this club - it bends over backwards to make sure you can watch football. Cheap season tickets (and yes, they are cheap. I certainly wasn''t the only one saying that the other day); interest free payment schemes etc. But I do think ST prices have been held artificially low and have been subsidised by the Directors. There you go.And on the rebate thing - it''s not about using it for either this or that. It''s about having some elasticity in the budget that means everything needn''t be so bloody gloomy across the board. It won''t give us the best player budget ever, but it''ll help. It won''t save every job that may have to go, but it''ll help.Unfortunately I''m not sure £600k will end world hunger though. Let me work out some figures and get back to you...

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

[/quote]

No doubt it''s gonna come eventually Butler but please could you give me a link to where the bigger issue is being made now?

 

[/quote]

The expression used by Roy Blower was a tear stained letter. Ok Not yet official but I believe that came from a meeting held with the board.

Also read the EDP the pressure is already being applied, in my opinion.

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[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

[/quote]

No doubt it''s gonna come eventually Butler but please could you give me a link to where the bigger issue is being made now?

 

[/quote]

The expression used by Roy Blower was a tear stained letter. Ok Not yet official but I believe that came from a meeting held with the board.

Also read the EDP the pressure is already being applied, in my opinion.

[/quote]

So  who would you say was making the bigger issue of it Butler my friend. Is it Blower, nCIsA or the club[:^)]

 

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[quote user="LQ"]Maybe I ignored it because it doesn''t make sense?

Who is trying to price anyone out? Certainly not this club - it bends over backwards to make sure you can watch football. Cheap season tickets (and yes, they are cheap. I certainly wasn''t the only one saying that the other day); interest free payment schemes etc. But I do think ST prices have been held artificially low and have been subsidised by the Directors. There you go.

And on the rebate thing - it''s not about using it for either this or that. It''s about having some elasticity in the budget that means everything needn''t be so bloody gloomy across the board. It won''t give us the best player budget ever, but it''ll help. It won''t save every job that may have to go, but it''ll help.

Unfortunately I''m not sure £600k will end world hunger though. Let me work out some figures and get back to you...


[/quote]

Increasing season ticket prices significantly (which you have called for) would price myself and others out of the game, you are comfortable with that view point I am not (and never the twain shall meet). I think at the heart of it it reflects not only many problems with the modern game, and the modern supporter but closer to home the make up and role of the SCG. Less people paying more does not necessarily equate to a sound long term business model.

If the current board had shown any indication they know how best to use the rebate money then perhaps many more would consider waiving it, where''s the business/action plan etc? No we don''t get that we get Bryan Gunn saying how difficult it will be for us to afford Alan Lee and (whispered quietly) wouldn''t it be useful if we had the rebate available. Elasticity is a budget is all well and good if you have people who know the right way to stretch it.

It''s simple for me, if the club couldn''t afford it they should never have offered it (was this not consulted with by the SCG), to do so smacks of yet more poor business planning, and to attempt to recoup that money by now tugging our hearstrings (and no doubt later blaming the fans yet again) is shameful.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

[/quote]

No doubt it''s gonna come eventually Butler but please could you give me a link to where the bigger issue is being made now?

 

[/quote]

The expression used by Roy Blower was a tear stained letter. Ok Not yet official but I believe that came from a meeting held with the board.

Also read the EDP the pressure is already being applied, in my opinion.

[/quote]

So  who would you say was making the bigger issue of it Butler my friend. Is it Blower, nCIsA or the club[:^)]

 

[/quote]

If the "fans" don''t comply with not taking the rebate, then the club.

Roy isn''t making an issue at all UNLESS of course you remember he is NCISA president.

NCISA because if they don''y "get in " before the club this time then again it will be to late. They can only respond to the wishes of the meeting, I can''t honestly say I saw which way you voted because of all the arms waving in front of me in favour of not taking it.

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Would an extra £10 or £20 a year put you off going? That puts the per match price up by less than a pound but would have generated the best part of £2 million over the last 4 years.As far as the SCG is concerned I''m not on the pricing working group so have had no input into what goes on there (probably for the best [;)] )

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[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"]

It''s a principal thing. Why make a big issue of offering something then making a bigger issue of persuading you not to take it.

[/quote]

No doubt it''s gonna come eventually Butler but please could you give me a link to where the bigger issue is being made now?

 

[/quote]

The expression used by Roy Blower was a tear stained letter. Ok Not yet official but I believe that came from a meeting held with the board.

Also read the EDP the pressure is already being applied, in my opinion.

[/quote]

So  who would you say was making the bigger issue of it Butler my friend. Is it Blower, nCIsA or the club[:^)]

 

[/quote]

If the "fans" don''t comply with not taking the rebate, then the club.

Roy isn''t making an issue at all UNLESS of course you remember he is NCISA president.

NCISA because if they don''y "get in " before the club this time then again it will be to late. They can only respond to the wishes of the meeting, I can''t honestly say I saw which way you voted because of all the arms waving in front of me in favour of not taking it.

[/quote]

My votes and my reasons for them have been well documented on here. Just to clear it up I''ll post it again here.

Did I agree with Gunn being our manager - No, because he failed. Of course I can understand that the club needs some continuity and I would have supported Butterworth and Crook for that reason. But not Gunny. I have met him quite a few times, he''s a great guy who can still be an asset to our club. Just not, in my view, as manager.

Will I be reclaiming my refund - Yes I will. I spend more watching away games than my ST anyway. I go to every game I can which is usually any away game that isn''t a Saturday. So my refund will go towards Brentford away in the Paint Pot or whatever. I do not feel any guilt whatsoever in doing this because it was in the terms I signed up when I renewed.

Did I have any confidence in the board - Absolutely not. How could someone have confidence in a three man board? I had more confidence in them before Munby and Doncaster stepped down! I could have had confidence if I had seen a couple of forward thinking dynamic replacements ready to work with the three to turn things around. But as it stands my vote was a resounding no confidence.

So there you have it. I asked about what the result of last Thursdays ST rebate vote was and Pete informed me it was 75% in favour of claiming the rebate. Now I will be interested to see what the percentage is that claims for real as that will be a reliable comparison as to whether us ST holders at the meeting were representative of the ST holders as a whole.

 

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[quote user="LQ"]Would an extra £10 or £20 a year put you off going? That puts the per match price up by less than a pound but would have generated the best part of £2 million over the last 4 years.

As far as the SCG is concerned I''m not on the pricing working group so have had no input into what goes on there (probably for the best [;)] )


[/quote]

For League 1 football? For a continually declining (in both standard and number) playing squad? Yes possibly it would?  I''d take a decision at renewal time based on that cost of that plus my petrol costs. Perhaps on it''s own it doesn''t but factor in an extra £10 on a tank of fuel and extra £2 on a pie and a pint, it adds up. In all honestly I couldn''t give you an answer on that for next season, but for this season the rebate was a significant factor in my renewal (along with the fact fuel prices stabilised), you seem unwilling to take that at face value.

But I''m confused using language such as ''artificially high season ticket prices'' (to paraphrase) imply more than a £10/£20 rise don''t they?

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[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]

[quote user="LQ"]Would an extra £10 or £20 a year put you off going? That puts the per match price up by less than a pound but would have generated the best part of £2 million over the last 4 years.As far as the SCG is concerned I''m not on the pricing working group so have had no input into what goes on there (probably for the best [;)] )

[/quote]

For League 1 football? For a continually declining (in both standard and number) playing squad? Yes possibly it would?  I''d take a decision at renewal time based on that cost of that plus my petrol costs. Perhaps on it''s own it doesn''t but factor in an extra £10 on a tank of fuel and extra £2 on a pie and a pint, it adds up. In all honestly I couldn''t give you an answer on that for next season, but for this season the rebate was a significant factor in my renewal (along with the fact fuel prices stabilised), you seem unwilling to take that at face value.

But I''m confused using language such as ''artificially high season ticket prices'' (to paraphrase) imply more than a £10/£20 rise don''t they?

[/quote]I said "artificially low" and no, I''ve never meant more than a £10 or £20 step up from what they have been year on year. That''s doable and affordable AND beneficial imo purely because of our large number of ST holders who I don''t believe would be put off by it.Maybe this is where we''ve been talking at cross purposes and why I couldn''t understand you accusing me of trying to price people out?I know it all adds up. I do appreciate that. But looking across the Championship and now League One we''re certainly not expensive. I just feel that the Club have erred on the side of caution with pricing when perhaps a small calculated risk could have reaped a far more healthy income stream.

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[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]Why on earth did the club decide to offer rebates if we got relegated. I`ll be more than happy to get some of my money back but in truth I dont think many people were persuaded to renew because a rebate was on offer, they would have probably renewed anyway. So the club now may have to cough up over £500k which it needed not do if the correct business decision had been made. [/quote]

Why pay Championship (Division 2 in old money) prices for Division 3 football?   If Marks & Spencer have a bad year do you expect them to ask you for £50 before allowing you to enter one of their stores?

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I renewed my season ticket by before the first deadline and the rebate had nothing to do with my decision. I am cheesed off by people who post on this board, who may or may not have a season ticket, telling me that I should waive my rebate and that if i do not I will be responsible for the club going into administration.  

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[quote user="LQ"]
However, a couple of people (long term ST holders no less) assured me that the ONLY reason they renewed for next season was because of the rebate offer.


[/quote]

Count me as another.

Why should we pay Championship prices for Division 3 football?  It was only fair that a rebate was offered considering we were renewing so early and didn''t know what division we would end up in.

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[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]

Believe what you want, but it did make a difference for me, I was borderline renewal, my travel costs amount to £40 a game (excluding refreshments), at a time when petrol and food costs were likely to rise, and my salary isn''t and jobs including mine are under threat, the rebate was enough to make my mind up as to what I was prepared to pay for League 1 football, I would have certainly not renewed at the first deadline had it not been available following relegation.

I''m getting thoroughly cheesed off with your attitude towards other people''s money, whilst you can afford to waive your rebate (bully for you) myself and others can''t and won''t. But given your attitude towards increasing season ticket prices you clearly won''t be happy until the likes of me are priced out of going to games.

[/quote]

Well said.

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It is not a rebate. Season tickets were priced at Championship level  before the end of the season with an alternative price for league 1 football if you took the option of renewing early.

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