What kind of a yearly loss are City currently on?

[Chabal 0]

Ignoring player sales, anyone know what is needed to break even next season? My guess is about £5m

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Chabal"]Ignoring player sales, anyone know what is needed to break even next season? My guess is about £5m[/quote]The honest answer is that nobody really knows outside of the club until the accounts are published.

[Desert Fox 0]

This means the accounts that will be published in the autumn of 2010, not 2009 which clearly relate to this season.

[blahblahblah 2]

Correct DF - was answering the phone at the same time and forgot to mention that [:)]To take a wild stab in the bark though, with a proper forum based fag-packet guess, Delia and MWJ put in 2 million from their back pockets, I think the Turners left their 2 million in too, and we''re supposed to be losing between 5 and 7 million in TV money, lower attendances, etc according to one of those academic blokes who looks at numbers.  So that would be a year on year shortfall of about 9-11 million before director investment.There will obviously be savings too, a lower playing staff bill (don''t call it wages cos people get upset), I''d guess at between 4 and 5 million for the squad in league 1, as opposed to 8.5 million we were told was spent last season.  So maybe a saving of 4 million there ?With a wild stab in the dark, I''d guess that the directors will have to find between 4 and 7 million to put into the club this season.  So probably 4 million then.

[The Butler 0]

Then you take things that are not real money like depreciation chops the loss down by another say 2mil.

Less Donnys take etc another quarter mil.

More games, cup matches, paint trophy, still getting good cowds. Ups their estimate by another.5 mil.

Getting closer to break even all the time.

Still it all depends what you WANT TO PROVE.

[Chabal 0]

Let me get this right, you think Doncaster will not be replaced so his salary is simply saved?

 

And you think total gate receipts will actually RISE next season?

[Desert Fox 0]

BBB,

My own guess is less than yours because of the impact of mitigating action, net tranfser profits (I''m afriad again) and most importantly non-recurring funds which are effectively sitting on the balnce sheet. The real problem will be the following year if we do not go up as it is unlikely that there will be any further transfer pofits and on-recurring funds will be exhausted. Furthermore, season ticket sales are likely to fall significantly if we do not go up. This raises the stakes on promotion significantly, almost to the point where this becomes a no choice gamble.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="Chabal"]

Let me get this right, you think Doncaster will not be replaced so his salary is simply saved?

 

And you think total gate receipts will actually RISE next season?

[/quote]

No higher than forecast for next season taking into account the extra games played.

Doncaster might well be replaced BUT I doubt the package will be as big and extensive. Also Munby 25K

[chicken 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Correct DF - was answering the phone at the same time and forgot to mention that [:)]To take a wild stab in the bark though, with a proper forum based fag-packet guess, Delia and MWJ put in 2 million from their back pockets, I think the Turners left their 2 million in too, and we''re supposed to be losing between 5 and 7 million in TV money, lower attendances, etc according to one of those academic blokes who looks at numbers.  So that would be a year on year shortfall of about 9-11 million before director investment.There will obviously be savings too, a lower playing staff bill (don''t call it wages cos people get upset), I''d guess at between 4 and 5 million for the squad in league 1, as opposed to 8.5 million we were told was spent last season.  So maybe a saving of 4 million there ?With a wild stab in the dark, I''d guess that the directors will have to find between 4 and 7 million to put into the club this season.  So probably 4 million then.[/quote]A loss of 9-11 million pounds?!!! That is a bit on the big side isn''t it?I maybe really wrong here but didnt the last report say that the club was profitable? I understand that this season the wages were too high but again looking at that most of that would have been in the likes of Lita and Sibierski and some of the other loan players. Add to that the loss of Fotheringham, Marshall and Croft and at least the wage bill side of things seems to be sorting itself out.What we have to remember is that although the said TV money is not coming in it doesn''t mean that the club will nessisarily make a loss. It means that they will have to spend accordingly in an effort not to make a loss. If the club was making a proffit - which supposedly it was then you can take that into account before calculating loss.Like I have said before the biggest failure of this board was not using the premiership money wisely. If it was used to blank off all of our debts then whatever profits we made would be available to the club to spend where it liked. The problem is that with the debts in tow you have massive interest payments to make before any of the actual installment payments come into it.If we have a debt of £18million and it is on say a 5% interest rate then you are looking at £800k a year in interest alone.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]A loss of 9-11 million pounds?!!! That is a bit on the big side isn''t it?[/quote]That would be in (my simple little head) if we paid out another 8.5 million on playing staff - I was using that figure to show how I got to 4 million by then deducting player costs of about 4 million as a guess.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

BBB,

My own guess is less than yours because of the impact of mitigating action, net tranfser profits (I''m afriad again) and most importantly non-recurring funds which are effectively sitting on the balnce sheet. The real problem will be the following year if we do not go up as it is unlikely that there will be any further transfer pofits and on-recurring funds will be exhausted. Furthermore, season ticket sales are likely to fall significantly if we do not go up. This raises the stakes on promotion significantly, almost to the point where this becomes a no choice gamble.

[/quote]I thoroughly agree.

[Desert Fox 0]

Chicken,

As I have posted above, next year will not be a financial disaster - it is the year after if we do not get promoted.

However, if we over tighten our belts, it will reduce our ability to go up. Hence, I think they will need to gamble for promotion, and this will need fresh investment. Put simply, the Board is between a rock and a hard place, gamble now or face a growing financial problem next year. Either way we cant dither.

[Desert Fox 0]

Oh well. I guess a ''league 1 budget'' means that the Board are not inclined to take a gamble. Thye must either believe that season ticke sales will hold up of we dont get promoted or they have their heads well and truly buried in the sand.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]Oh well. I guess a ''league 1 budget'' means that the Board are not inclined to take a gamble. Thye must either believe that season ticke sales will hold up of we dont get promoted or they have their heads well and truly buried in the sand.[/quote]Todays'' announcements do seem to have mid-table written all over them.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Desert Fox"]Oh well. I guess a ''league 1 budget'' means that the Board are not inclined to take a gamble. Thye must either believe that season ticke sales will hold up of we dont get promoted or they have their heads well and truly buried in the sand.[/quote]Todays'' announcements do seem to have mid-table written all over them.[/quote]Sadly I would have to agree. But also quite sadly I think there was only one realistic way that this could have panned out differently and that was for the club to clear all of its debts when we were promoted to the prem and informed fans that we should not expect anything other than not to have to worry about £18million of debt anymore leaving the club free to do as it wished with any proffit made.If you look at how much the interest rates must be on a loan that large I should imagine that we would be able to finance another two or three players wages on it a season. We could afford to take more risks etc.We would also be a more lucrative investment oppertunity.

[Desert Fox 0]

Chicken,

Disagree. I dont think there is any financial alternative between risking promotion and a spiral of decline. Budgeting for mid-table is tantamount to surrender and acepting a slowe lingering death, to the point where the debt is no longer supportable from reduced revenues. What we should have done in the prem is history - they need to face up to the reality of where we are now becuase sure as night follows day, they can kiss goodbye to 18,000 season tickets.