"This message board does not account for a vast amount of Norwich's support base."

[Mister Chops 7]

So says UEA Canary in another tiresome rant.  Apparently the postings on here are the view of the minority and don''t represent what the "real fans" think.I presume the posters on WotB, Carrow Road.net and the other message board sites are also unrepresentative of the "real fan."  The people I drink with in the Rosary after home games aren''t "real fans" either.   The Pink Un Pickers are, I assume, not "real fans" as they all use the message board to exchange opinions. So, as a frequent poster here, and season ticket holder, could someone please tell me where can I find out what the "real fans" think?Will it be tomorrow''s NCISA meeting?  Will it be the next SCG meeting?  Will it be at the next open day?  Are they in the City Stand, or the Jarrold Stand?  Are they all on Club Cabbage on their way to Yeovil?  Who are these people, and who speaks for them?Is it the letters page of the EDP? There''s usually a stout defence of our board''s policies to be found there.  Does one letter speak for all these silent "real fans"?And aren''t the real fans the ones who care about our club? - and can anyone who cares about our club honestly say the last few days have made them feel anything other than deeply concerned?There is something rotten at the core of our once fine club, and more and more people are beginning to see it.  I hope it''s not too late to reverse our decline.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Excellent post Chops and I thoroughly agree. You can tell it''s a sensible, well thought-out post because no-one''s replied.

[Fluff 0]

Spot on ''Chops''

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]So, as a frequent poster here, and season ticket holder, could someone please tell me where can I find out what the "real fans" think?

[/quote]I suggested on another thread that NCISA organised a ballot/ or poll. Fans could post their old season tickets membership cards with their replies as evidence that they were supporters.

[Desert Fox 0]

Chops,

Good post - but if Canary Call is anything to judge by, those that question the Board are certianly not a majority (yet).

[Rustys 1st Touch 0]

This is just an observation so feel free to shoot me down.... but maybe the majority of elderly fans don''t use forums such as this and are more likely to write a letter into a newspaper or phone Canary Call. Perhaps it is the older fans who are less inclined to go against the board and their decisions since they have a fondness for Delia and Michael. Younger fans would be more demanding, wanting to see success on the pitch and changes at the club. In contrast older fans may be more resistant and view any attempts at change to be disruptive.

[The Chirp 0]

uea canary is right though. I think there are a lot of extreme opinions on here and a lot of posters who do your cause a discredit. not saying youre one of them, but when people post slanderous comments about the board or Gunn it makes the arguement a bit of a joke.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

Bryan thinks that polls can be manipulated, so there it is. Any poll that doesn''t support him is a dud. Oh yes indeed.

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="The Chirp"]uea canary is right though. I think there are a lot of extreme opinions on here and a lot of posters who do your cause a discredit. not saying youre one of them, but when people post slanderous comments about the board or Gunn it makes the arguement a bit of a joke. [/quote]

exactly, the thing is this forum doesnt count for the majority of norwichs fans, lets fase there isnt 24000 members on here and thats only those that go to the ground, even if there was a thousand members on here thats only a small percentage of fans and not everyones views are the same, and theres a lot of fundamentalist if u dont agree with my view ill abuse you verbally attitude on here. everyones entitled to a opinion and everyones opinion is valid, just we''ll see mid season whos opinion was right

[The Chirp 0]

well it''s true actually... polls don''t tell the big picture... for example, i didn''t vote and i would have voted for Gunn. My opinion is that he will do well... i might be wrong... people who are more likely to vote are people who hold a passionate view... which in this case is more likely to be people who dislike the current regime.

[chicken 0]

Hmmmm. I understand where you are coming from Chops but I also understand where UEA is coming from.The thing is this forum is international - you have people like houstan canary and others who are abroad and support from affar and then others that go to games on a regular basis.Many people claim to speak to other fans who dont come on here. I have quite a bit of time due to shift patterns to have a plonk about on here but I know plenty of people who dont have the time to regularily stay in touch with an internet forum - and of those that do few of them on a forum and more on games.The thing is most of us prefer speaking to real people when we can and come on here to find the views differ. I speak to several people every week who dont visit this forum and I tell them of some of the opinions held on here at the moment.I think what you have to accept is that this forum is not an accurate demographic of the fans that turn up on match days. I don''t think that is an unfair statement and I do not want to insult the supporters from affar but I think that is the reality of it. So when people go to the games and chat to people they find that perhaps the supporters at a matchday feel differently than those on here.We don''t have 24,000 posters on here - and there are a lot more than 24,000 fans of Norwich world wide.My advice is to always take it with a pinch of salt. Because you are free to type what the heck you like people tend to do exactly that and thus can be quite extreme - I have identified that whilst many people I know are not as militant as say Smudger, Cluck, Jason Knights and the like they may carry some of the same opinions.I don''t know where to start with Wiz other than to say that this season he seems to have been a barrometer of how up and down things have been.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="The Chirp"]I think there are a lot of extreme opinions on here and a lot of posters who do your cause a discredit. not saying youre one of them, but when people post slanderous comments about the board or Gunn it makes the arguement a bit of a joke.[/quote]I wouldn''t disagree with that at all - but it works both ways. Plenty of people have gone to the other extreme and accuse people of not agreeing the current set-up is the way to go as not being "real fans", and saying things like "get behind the team, stop moaning" etc. It doesn''t matter what "side" people are on, a lot of them are as bad as each other.

[Mr_Chimp 0]

Great post, Chops.It''s utterly infuriating.  Personally I felt my stomach go over as they announced Delia, Foulger, MWJ and Gunny were in front of the assembled press - it was inevitable.  As I said in one of the other reaction threads, a better board could have turned relegation into something of a positive (bear with me...).Whatever we think of our Club, in League One we''re going to be a ''big side''.  Regardless of budget and *actual* quality, we will be percieved, along with Leeds, Charlton and Southampton, as one of the biggest - if not the biggest, given our attendances - Clubs in the division.  To that end we should start acting like a big club -  take on a little of Roeder''s arrogance and use it for our benefit.  Unsettle players, bully clubs and generally throw our weight around to make sure we build the team we want with the manager we need directing our progress.  Teams in League One can hate us for it, but who gives a crap?  It wouldn''t take a fortune to sign a few Sammy Clingan-esque players (remember, he chose US over a new Forest contract), but it would take a manager with a it of nous and sufficient clout.  Roeder - for all his faults - had that.  Gunn does not.Maybe I''ve got it all wrong, and the board know exactly what they''re doing.  I sincerely doubt it, though.  And just because I won''t back them anymore, I will absolutely not be insulted by UEA Canary or any other fan because of it.  Was it real fans who hounded Chase from office?  Was it real fans who lined the streets of Norwich?  Does it matter when we''re sliding ever downward?  I don''t know, and not do I care.  The last few days have shown it doesn''t matter to the people in charge anyway.

[Spartan 0]

Excellent post - too many creeps supporting Delia and her adopted son - happy to settle for zero ambition and a life of mediocrity. I repeat from earlier posts, Delia and co really are the untouchables!

[Lord Horn 0]

[quote user="Lupo Loop"]This is just an observation so feel free to shoot me down.... but maybe the majority of elderly fans don''t use forums such as this and are more likely to write a letter into a newspaper or phone Canary Call. Perhaps it is the older fans who are less inclined to go against the board and their decisions since they have a fondness for Delia and Michael.

Younger fans would be more demanding, wanting to see success on the pitch and changes at the club. In contrast older fans may be more resistant and view any attempts at change to be disruptive.
[/quote]

Sorry to take you to task Lupo but I can''t agree with your age related theory.  I''m probably what you might call one of the elder statesmen on here (having been watching our beloved team for the last 45 years).  However, I regularly post on at least three different football forums and most of the people I watch with and discuss things with are of a similar age.  I have yet to come across one who is either a ''happy clappy sheep'' or pleased with today''s appointment.  This is also the general consensus of City supporters/season ticket holders (of all ages) that I work with.  Most of these others have never posted on a forum in their lives but to a man/woman, none of them are overjoyed at our current position and I have yet to come across a ''Gunny In'' fan since we got relegated.  As for League 1, what really bugs me is that I have waited years to be able to regularly stand at away games again and when we actually achieve this I am of an age that all I want to do is sit down........bugger!

[JJ 0]

Good post Chops.  All I can say from my end is that I know a good cross section of City fans of various ages, who sit in different parts of the ground, have season tickets or memberships, go regularly or occasionally, but have the best intentions of the club at heart.  Not one of them is happy with the way the club is being run, and not one of them supports the appointment of Gunn (although naturally everyone, including me, wishes him well).  They''re all genuine supporters though and I''d never question how ''real'' they are.

 

[Ginja 26]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]So says UEA Canary in another tiresome rant....[/quote]I''d like to point out I am in no way affliated with this "other" UEA Canary [:P]

[Rustys 1st Touch 0]

Apologies Lord Horn perhaps it was a bit simplistic of me. Struggling to understand how any fan can see the appointment as a positive step. I think the media are too closely associated to the club. Both Archant and Radio Norfolk are very rarely anti the board. An example was today when Roy Waller was reading out text messages. Every negative one towards the appointment he disagreed with whilst making snide comments. The more positive messages were read without comment.

That''s surely bias in the extreme and at least when Matthew Gudgin read texts later on he kept his personal views aside and just read them out.

[. 0]

It''s too late I''m afraid...... The happy clappies fill the ground.... whereas the grassroot supporter doesn''t bother to go any more.

We are a joke these days.... and will be until there is a total clear out and we can again become a football club instead of a celebrity plaything.

[Lord Horn 0]

Apologies accepted Lupo.  I got so frustrated with some of the Canary Callers last season because of their happy clappy attitude at times although I wouldn''t class Neil Adams as a pro-club apologist.  Local journos certainly don''t seem to want to question anything that goes on at Carra Rud.  Maybe they might lose their freebies and hospitality if they get too anti!  Roy Waller...now there''s another story altogether....the sole reason why I still to this day have difficulty tuning into away games on Radio Cabbage despite the fact he''s long gone.

[ca 1]

Great post Mr Chops [:D]

[The Chirp 0]

Well i have been a ''Gunn Inner'' for sometime now and will stand by my thoughts on the matter. - YOu only have to see my blog to see that - Like it or not. It''s a bit of a civil war all this malarky isn''t? Royalists on one side and Parlimentarians on the other... thing is at the end of the day we all want the same thing... norwich to be doing well again. For me, the reasons i want Gunn in are simple. * The club is rocky enough as it is, we need to steady the ship and keep with one manager for a while. * Gunn took over a terrible team last year and in my opinion does not deserve to be judged on last season. * He has the will to succeed, he is desparate to do well, not to get a shot at managing somewhere else, but to get norwich doing well again.* I would rather all the money norwich has goes towards players not signing a new manager and backroom staff* He knows the club, the fans, the area. * He''s scouted the lower leagues in his previous job* Deehan and Butterworth actually both have good lower league experience and connections. * Gunn has excellent connections.* Getting a new boss in doesn''t necessarily mean we''ll be better off.... In fact I think the experience of relegation will give Gunn a steely mentality which is needed at the moment. These are just my opinions, I think they are valid and justified. - There are plenty of people on here who will shoot me down and call me all the names under the sun... everyone is upset that their club is in the mire... but i think the board know they are in it at the moment and will have to pull out all the stops... I don''t buy into all this anti-delia stuff and i certainly won''t buy into the anti-gunn stuff. The board have really messed things up over the last 4/5 years... but now i honestly think we have hit rock bottom and will now slower move on up again.  Am I a real fan? course i am :-)

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="Lupo Loop"]Apologies Lord Horn perhaps it was a bit simplistic of me. Struggling to understand how any fan can see the appointment as a positive step. I think the media are too closely associated to the club. Both Archant and Radio Norfolk are very rarely anti the board. An example was today when Roy Waller was reading out text messages. Every negative one towards the appointment he disagreed with whilst making snide comments. The more positive messages were read without comment.

That''s surely bias in the extreme and at least when Matthew Gudgin read texts later on he kept his personal views aside and just read them out.
[/quote]

 

I blame the Press myself [;)]

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Lupo, completely agree re the local journalists. Some of their articles pick out negative aspects of a certain game, indeed some even hint that we need professional people at Carrow Road, but when they cover any sort of ''event'' such as a new appointment, or indeed the interview of the manager after the game when do any of them ask any searching questions? No really, when do they?

So where are the journalists? I thought, perhaps wrongly, that the whole reason for being a journalist was to ask questions and to get at the truth. In NCFC''s case, this has been neglected in favour of keeping the club sweet.

Alongside that we have been spoon fed spin for years and what is so sad is a large proportion of city fans have no idea what they think (it''s all mapped out for them via the press, listening to Canary Call, listening or reading statements from the club). So is it any wonder no one really knows who is for or against those who run the club, for or against Bryan Gunn''s appointment?

Excuse the pun, but after today, just maybe the Emperor''s new clothes may just be about to fall off. Seeing Delia and Michael on SSN earlier tonight I was struck with two things. Firstly how out of touch they are and how uncomfortable they look.

They have backed themselves into a corner and if Gunn fails what will they have to respond with? Are they hastily seeking investment? Are they looking to appoint new board members (they need to to be able to make any decisions at board level, or are they content to ''loan'' Roger Munby for the moment to facilitate decision making).

WE need these questions asked, and answers sought by our local press. I would personally like to see the editor(s) of both papers each make a statement or editorial as to why no relevant or biting questions are ever asked of the board.

So we have to do it ourselves. The NCISA meeting is a start and we can only hope that others join in. Other fan groups, concerned local businessmen who could help, but are never approached. Anyone with something to say, but as yet haven''t been given the platform in which to do so.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Of course this forum represents what real fans think Mister! All the posters that I have met from these boards are real fans. I think where people become confused is when they try and neatly pigeon hole posters into what they see as black and white. Worthy Out or KTF. Happy Clappy Deliarites or Ranting Raving Sack The Board Welcome Administrationites. It''s black or white for these guys and yet the reality is real fans come in all shades ranging from pitch black to brilliant white. Like in all aspects of life us fans are individuals and don''t fit into anyone elses stereotypes.

But we''re also all "City ''til we die"

[8]I Said If
You''re Thinkin'' Of
Being My Brother
It Don''t Matter If You''re
Black Or White

 

[Rustys 1st Touch 0]

It''s frustrating that these hard questions are not being asked. The only people who really question the football club from Archant are The Man and Adam Aitken. As for Radio Norfolk I find Chris Gorehams pre and post match questioning of players and management very poor. He simply fails to ask questions that are in anyway relevant to what fans would like to hear asked such as "why was so and so played at left back etc". Instead its stock questions like "Cody McDonald looked lively tonight?" Hardly hard hitting stuff. Other regional stations are far more forthright in their after match questioning of managers.The only reason I can see for this closeness is the need for these journalists to gather sources from the club. Waghorn and Lakey spring to mind in this regard and probably need to ensure they can have the necessary access to write their articles. However its difficult to read their articles based on the fact that they''re so bland and usually involve ridiculous quotes from players giving it a 110 percent or Gunn saying he bleeds yellow and green. Not exactly biting journalist and hardly asking the serious questions. Fingers crossed that the NCISA will come out with more serious questioning of the board as it seems to be the only alternative.

[|BA 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"] Apparently the postings on here are the view of the minority and don''t represent what the real fans think.

[/quote]That statement is, obviously, correct. ANY forum tends to represents those who are vocal, confrontational and opinionated. Be it a political forum, football or boxing.Anyone who fails to recognise this is pretty stupid.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="The Chirp"]* The club is rocky enough as it is, we need to steady the ship and keep with one manager for a while.[/quote]Stability is a good thing. But it''s got to be with a someone half-decent in charge otherwise there''s no point.[quote]* Gunn took over a terrible team last year and in my opinion does not deserve to be judged on last season.[/quote]He did take over a terrible team, indeed - but he had nearly half a season, signed several players, won his first game 4-0 and still got us relegated by five points. Bear in mind Roeder took over in probably even worse circumstances, under similar restrictions, and lost three from his first 19 games.[quote]* He has the will to succeed, he is desparate to do well, not to get a shot at managing somewhere else, but to get norwich doing well again.[/quote]So do I but you wouldn''t appoint me.[quote]* I would rather all the money norwich has goes towards players not signing a new manager and backroom staff[/quote]Surely that''s just as important? We might not have much money but a better manager would have a better chance of using his resources wisely.[quote]* He knows the club, the fans, the area.[/quote]Again so do I but that''s not a reason to give someone the job.[quote]* He''s scouted the lower leagues in his previous job[/quote]So?[quote]* Deehan and Butterworth actually both have good lower league experience and connections.[/quote]Experience - a few seasons as director of football and assistant manager between them. How do you know they have good connections?[quote]* Gunn has excellent connections.[/quote]Such as?[quote]* Getting a new boss in doesn''t necessarily mean we''ll be better off.... In fact I think the experience of relegation will give Gunn a steely mentality which is needed at the moment.[/quote]No it doesn''t - in the same way that if I go out this morning I won''t necessarily avoid getting hit by a bus. So let''s just stay indoors to make sure. Sorry but seemingly only at NCFC is failure like this rewarded.

[The Chirp 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"][quote user="The Chirp"]* The club is rocky enough as it is, we need to steady the ship and keep with one manager for a while.[/quote]Stability is a good thing. But it''s got to be with a someone half-decent in charge otherwise there''s no point.[quote]* Gunn took over a terrible team last year and in my opinion does not deserve to be judged on last season.[/quote]He did take over a terrible team, indeed - but he had nearly half a season, signed several players, won his first game 4-0 and still got us relegated by five points. Bear in mind Roeder took over in probably even worse circumstances, under similar restrictions, and lost three from his first 19 games.[quote]* He has the will to succeed, he is desparate to do well, not to get a shot at managing somewhere else, but to get norwich doing well again.[/quote]So do I but you wouldn''t appoint me.[quote]* I would rather all the money norwich has goes towards players not signing a new manager and backroom staff[/quote]Surely that''s just as important? We might not have much money but a better manager would have a better chance of using his resources wisely.[quote]* He knows the club, the fans, the area.[/quote]Again so do I but that''s not a reason to give someone the job.[quote]* He''s scouted the lower leagues in his previous job[/quote]So?[quote]* Deehan and Butterworth actually both have good lower league experience and connections.[/quote]Experience - a few seasons as director of football and assistant manager between them. How do you know they have good connections?[quote]* Gunn has excellent connections.[/quote]Such as?

 [quote]* Getting a new boss in doesn''t necessarily mean we''ll be better off.... In fact I think the experience of relegation will give Gunn a steely mentality which is needed at the moment.[/quote]No it doesn''t - in the same way that if I go out this morning I won''t necessarily avoid getting hit by a bus. So let''s just stay indoors to make sure. Sorry but seemingly only at NCFC is failure like this rewarded.[/quote]

God GH,  same as the rest... i could throw all your thoughts on the

board or who you want manager right back at you... seriously, i could

go on for hours as i  am sure you could... and each of us would have

very good cases... THE POINT of me writing that out was to say, that

everyone has opinions.

I mean writing rubbish like ''so?'' for he''s scouted lower leagues is

stupid, you must have known that when you wrote it?? I''ll spell it out

just in case... That means he should have a good idea of who''s who in

this league, how teams play, which players are decent, who''s on a free

etc... COME ON...

And... another... Director of football, not for one season but from 03

- 07. SO he will have connections... I''m sure you''ll say SO? etc... but

i think this will help.

and Butterworth... since 1998 has been in the lower leagues... daro,

cardiff, bristol and hartlepool... but that''s not enough right?! I

would say he would have made good connections in that time... then

again.. that''s a reasonable opinion... i forget a lot of you and sadly

it seems yourself included won''t listen to people who have fair

opinions who can back them up. It''s far easier to be against it all and slate anyones view that doesn''t fit in with yours... In fact no wonder there isn''t more pro board stuff on here! No one listens, or takes a fair opinion... it''s all sack the board, throw your season ticket in their face etc etc... Gunn has his chance, like it or lump it... so support your team and ''try'' to look at the positives. IF he messes up, bring on your i told you so, i''ll happily take it.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="The Chirp"]
God GH,  same as the rest... i could throw all your thoughts on the board or who you want manager right back at you... seriously, i could go on for hours as i  am sure you could... and each of us would have very good cases... THE POINT of me writing that out was to say, that everyone has opinions.[/quote]

Okay - but there doesn''t seem to be much point writing that out if you don''t want people to respond.

[quote]I mean writing rubbish like ''so?'' for he''s scouted lower leagues is stupid, you must have known that when you wrote it?? I''ll spell it out just in case... That means he should have a good idea of who''s who in this league, how teams play, which players are decent, who''s on a free etc... COME ON...[/quote]

A good case, in fact, for being a scout. Sadly when it comes to management you need tactical nous and good motivational skills too.

[quote]And... another... Director of football, not for one season but from 03 - 07. SO he will have connections... I''m sure you''ll say SO? etc... but i think this will help.[/quote]

Okay, I stand corrected then.

[quote]and Butterworth... since 1998 has been in the lower leagues... daro, cardiff, bristol and hartlepool... but that''s not enough right?! I would say he would have made good connections in that time... then again.. that''s a reasonable opinion... i forget a lot of you and sadly it seems yourself included won''t listen to people who have fair opinions who can back them up. It''s far easier to be against it all and slate anyones view that doesn''t fit in with yours...[/quote]

And here too - I knew he was with Hartlepool and Cardiff but unaware of the others. In fairness then he should have a good knowledge of this division. But the next bit is total rubbish, sorry - I haven''t slated anyone''s view at all. I do listen to ''fair'' opinions. Doesn''t mean I can''t disagree does it? And I have posted plenty of well-reasoned posts in the past on the whole management thing. But they tend to get ignored. So maybe there''s not much point of posting constructive messages if people prefer to indulge in name-calling and point-scoring instead? And also you didn''t back it up at all - you said ''well they should have connections'' but isn''t that just an assumption? You or I have no idea what connections they have.

[quote]In fact no wonder there isn''t more pro board stuff on here! No one listens, or takes a fair opinion... it''s all sack the board, throw your season ticket in their face etc etc...[/quote]

So what''s that to do with me then?

[quote]Gunn has his chance, like it or lump it... so support your team and ''try'' to look at the positives. IF he messes up, bring on your i told you so, i''ll happily take it. [/quote]

I''m not interested in saying ''I told you so'', I''d love to be proved wrong. But you can''t make comments like the ones above and then tell me to ''support the team''. That''s just as bad as people who make the remarks you''re referring to. Why aren''t I supporting the team? I have a season ticket and go to quite a few away matches. But because I don''t like what''s going on I''m not really supporting. Whatever.