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Why does wanting the board out mean you have to come up with a replacement plan?

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[quote user="Bigus"]

1) We should not confuse ''lack of ambition'' with ''lack of money''. Delia Smith wants to see Norwich City in the Premier League as much as anyone does. In this World of football, going to the EPL and staying there involves rich Arabs, Russians and Americans. Delia simply cannot play this game. She doesn''t have the cash. I believe she is highly ambitious, like all fans. I am sure she wishes she''d never bothered in the first place. Delia Smith takes advice from the board and the Chief Exec. Who just got fired. He didn''t step down, he was fired for failure. That was Delia''s doing. She is finally realizing that the advice, financial and football has been very bad indeed. Doncaster is gone now and we need to see what other changes take place before getting carried away. We also need to look back at pre-Delia Norwich City as look at the 12,000 crowds and stands that were falling apart.

[/quote]1) I disagree. When we got promoted, all that money for going up would have been thrust straight into the transfer budget if we were serious about staying up. Instead we were greeted with the "Little Norwich Adventure" trip, not to mention her appalling drunken episode on the pitch. True ambition would have been shown at that point, instead the club as a whole treated it as nothing more than an exciting period of history with relegation as a certainty.2) If Delia doesn''t have the money to compete then why won''t she leave? I don''t buy this "nobody wants to buy the club", the moment a Norfolk billionaire showed interest the board put a brick wall around the club and refused to negotiate, Delia regards NCFC as her personal plaything, he party to run. Which is bad news for us fans, as the woman has about as much footballing expertise as a wooden cricket bat. You only have to look at the managerial appointments and recent footballing ethos such as loan players and off-pitch investment to see this.3) No, he stepped down. He was probably under pressure to do so, but Delia didn''t suddenly come to her senses and kick him out, otherwise she''d have done it years ago when it was shown that the man lacked any sort of footballing knowledge. He was a lawyer, a very well paid one at that. And even if she did realise his advice was flawed, how fdo you explain why she''s decided to make Gunn''s appointment ANYWAY without finding someone to replace Doncaster who may just have a different opinion?

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="astrodyne"][quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....[/quote]Yes but if your girlfriend is as inept at sex as this board are at managing the club, wouldn''t you be better of with wrist strengthening exercises?[/quote]But they can only provide so much satisfaction, and its not long before your internet connection has been exhausted and you''re looking for something a little more 3D to get off on.... that''s when you get desperate, run down to the local and end up telling that tubby lass who works behind the bar but has a good rack that she''s the prettiest girl you''ve ever met and would she, maybe, fancy a drink ''after hours''....... which seems like a good idea until you wake up the next morning, your bed reeking of vodka, vomit and sex-wee and your arm slightly numb from the walrus who''s been happily resting on it all night.  Next thing you know there''s a baby on the way, you''re crying in the vestry wearing a hired suit and that slightly-bad-in-bed girlfriend suddenly seems like the best sex you ever had.....................................................................................I''m guessing, of course............... [8-)][/quote]Hmmm....I must admit I''m warming to your point of view. I think it was the sex-wee that could be the clincher.

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[quote user="astrodyne"]Hmmm....I must admit I''m warming to your point of view. I think it was the sex-wee that could be the clincher.[/quote]Sex-wee is always the clincher............. [:)]PS, Pete... I''m sorry I''ve probably sullied your ''keep things clean'' campaign, but I''m a little bored....

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Bigus- i take my hat off to you. Some very very good points and I''m sure most if not all people will agree with them. I certainly do.

As I''ve said before one of the main reasons I want the board to go is lack ambition on their part- but in the cold light of day how much can you, i or anyone else blame them? Football is dominated by money and if (as a football club) you dont have as much as everyone else then as you say it is quite easy to misconstrue (sp?) it as lack of ambition.

Delias reign has coincided with vast amounts of money and how ever much we''d like to blame the board alone it is not soley down to them that we are where we are.

A combination of lack of money, players not giving two hoots about relegation, inept managers and bad management from the board has bought us to league 1. There is nothing (apart from protests and even that wont do much) we can do. We may as well strap ourselves in and enjoy the ride. 

I think I''m starting to  wake up and realise the truth. The truth that has been staring me squarely in the face.

Nothing is black and white.

Great post again mate [Y]

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[quote user="CT "]Bigus- i take my hat off to you. Some very very good points and I''m sure most if not all people will agree with them. I certainly do.

As I''ve said before one of the main reasons I want the board to go is lack ambition on their part- but in the cold light of day how much can you, i or anyone else blame them? Football is dominated by money and if (as a football club) you dont have as much as everyone else then as you say it is quite easy to misconstrue (sp?) it as lack of ambition.

Delias reign has coincided with vast amounts of money flowing into the game and how ever much we''d like to blame the board alone it is not soley down to them that we are where we are.

A combination of lack of money, players not giving two hoots about relegation, inept managers and bad management from the board has bought us to league 1. There is nothing (apart from protests and even that wont do much) we can do. We may as well strap ourselves in and enjoy the ride. 

I think I''m starting to  wake up and realise the truth. The truth that has been staring me squarely in the face.

Nothing is black and white.

Great post again mate [Y]

[/quote]

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@ Canary Wunderboy..

1) I disagree. When we got promoted, all that money for going up would have been thrust straight into the transfer budget if we were serious about staying up. Instead we were greeted with the "Little Norwich Adventure" trip, not to mention her appalling drunken episode on the pitch. True ambition would have been shown at that point, instead the club as a whole treated it as nothing more than an exciting period of history with relegation as a certainty.

2) If Delia doesn''t have the money to compete then why won''t she leave? I don''t buy this "nobody wants to buy the club", the moment a Norfolk billionaire showed interest the board put a brick wall around the club and refused to negotiate, Delia regards NCFC as her personal plaything, he party to run. Which is bad news for us fans, as the woman has about as much footballing expertise as a wooden cricket bat. You only have to look at the managerial appointments and recent footballing ethos such as loan players and off-pitch investment to see this.

3) No, he stepped down. He was probably under pressure to do so, but Delia didn''t suddenly come to her senses and kick him out, otherwise she''d have done it years ago when it was shown that the man lacked any sort of footballing knowledge. He was a lawyer, a very well paid one at that. And even if she did realise his advice was flawed, how fdo you explain why she''s decided to make Gunn''s appointment ANYWAY without finding someone to replace Doncaster who may just have a different opinion?

1: How much of that was based on the advice Doncaster was giving? She did not make the decisions on her own. She isn''t Richard Branson.

2:  I addressed my thoughts on this already. How do you know? To leave would ''leave'' a 2 mil investment hole this season and serve no purpose unless someone else wants to buy in.

3: I don''t believe that and I am sure not many will. The Chief Exec of any failed company gets canned. Difference here is that they made the mistake of putting him on the board, making it difficult to do earlier. Who would step down and leave a 200,000 quid job? Just quit and walk away. With no job to go to?  For the good of the club? Doncaster? Come on. He wasn''t even a Norwich fan.

..and to the second point, the remaining board members made the decision. One I think is right. No more change. We have had enough over the last few years. Who says Doncaster is being replaced? From MWJ''s comments I gather that he isn''t. But I am sure more board members wil be added.

All good points. We all have different opinions and have shown we can air them without calling each other names. Good stuff.

 

 

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[quote user="Bigus"]

@ Canary Wunderboy..

1) I disagree. When we got promoted, all that money for going up would have been thrust straight into the transfer budget if we were serious about staying up. Instead we were greeted with the "Little Norwich Adventure" trip, not to mention her appalling drunken episode on the pitch. True ambition would have been shown at that point, instead the club as a whole treated it as nothing more than an exciting period of history with relegation as a certainty.2) If Delia doesn''t have the money to compete then why won''t she leave? I don''t buy this "nobody wants to buy the club", the moment a Norfolk billionaire showed interest the board put a brick wall around the club and refused to negotiate, Delia regards NCFC as her personal plaything, he party to run. Which is bad news for us fans, as the woman has about as much footballing expertise as a wooden cricket bat. You only have to look at the managerial appointments and recent footballing ethos such as loan players and off-pitch investment to see this.3) No, he stepped down. He was probably under pressure to do so, but Delia didn''t suddenly come to her senses and kick him out, otherwise she''d have done it years ago when it was shown that the man lacked any sort of footballing knowledge. He was a lawyer, a very well paid one at that. And even if she did realise his advice was flawed, how fdo you explain why she''s decided to make Gunn''s appointment ANYWAY without finding someone to replace Doncaster who may just have a different opinion?

1: How much of that was based on the advice Doncaster was giving? She did not make the decisions on her own. She isn''t Richard Branson.

2:  I addressed my thoughts on this already. How do you know? To leave would ''leave'' a 2 mil investment hole this season and serve no purpose unless someone else wants to buy in.

3: I don''t believe that and I am sure not many will. The Chief Exec of any failed company gets canned. Difference here is that they made the mistake of putting him on the board, making it difficult to do earlier. Who would step down and leave a 200,000 quid job? Just quit and walk away. With no job to go to?  For the good of the club? Doncaster? Come on. He wasn''t even a Norwich fan.

..and to the second point, the remaining board members made the decision. One I think is right. No more change. We have had enough over the last few years. Who says Doncaster is being replaced? From MWJ''s comments I gather that he isn''t. But I am sure more board members wil be added.

All good points. We all have different opinions and have shown we can air them without calling each other names. Good stuff.[/quote]

1. So Delia made her decisions based on the advice of a Chief exec with no footballing decisions. If you are correct, then she showed terrible judgement in taking advice from him, and has nevertheless allowed herself to be suckered into his web for the past decade while the overall state of our club has deteriorated. Now imagine you''re wrong and I''m right, Delia used Doncaster as a yes man, a smiling face used to dampen the expectations of our fans and to carry out her orders. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Delia is the one with the clout in the boardroom, remember the appointment of Hamilton? Or the fact that the stadium now hosts her own restaurant, in convenient premises? The apparent appointment of Gunn for his passion and dedication to the club, despte there only being 3 board members, and despite the fact that in our last 19 games he showed no ounce of tactical prowess or ability to motivate the players, all seems to point in this direction.

2. I don''t believe Delia will leave. Doing so would force the club into administration and she''d lose her entire investement. I believe that her money is the main reason she''s still here, it''s been heavily suggested that Cullum refused to pay any money for her shares, which is why negotiations fell through. Now, you can argue whether or not she deserves a return on her investment, I personally think that she is asking far too much. For one thing, no-one made her convert her loans into shares, she did so only to increase her holding and give her a majority majority, something which I remind you she swore would never happen. She is also on record as saying that she would step aside if someone offered to invest heavily in the team, yet she went back on that the moment it seemed as though someone would put such as offer on the table. I believe that she honestly doesnt want to lose control of the club, the publicity she gains from it is too valuable for her, and it doesnt matter that the club is now at its lowest ebb for 50 years.

3. Maybe you''re wrong, and maybe you''re right. What is important to note however, is that no action was taken against Doncaster until it became obvious that the majority of fans found him a suitable scalp. If his decisions over the past 12 years have been so bad, why has it only been when the fans called for his head that''s he''s been forced out. Delia has found him a convinient mouthpiece for years.

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@Canary Wunderboy.

1:  Taking advice from him was terrible advice for sure, but she was not alone. What about Foulger and Munby? The Turners? There is also plenty of evidence to suggest he was instrumental in many of the clubs ''issues''. Not least sitting on the board of the Football League Interactive and giving away the clubs internet rights to a company in Kent who care little about Norwich fans. A company that was formed out of FLI members to meet ''ethical'' requirements. An awful product and one that is not even available to all exiled City fans. A disgrace. I have personally communicated with Doncaster over this issue and believe that Delia probably has no idea of the details.

2: Cullum is a billionaire, I refuse to believe that he wouldn''t pay for her shares. But who knows. One thing I''m certain about, she is not in this to make money. There is no money to be made in football. Never was. Roman Abrahmovich has spent 700 million with nothing to show for it. Not even sell out crowds. She got involved because she loves NCFC. She just doesn''t have the money to take us where we need to be, or expect to be!

3: Same reason the board held on to Worthy for so long, too damn nce I''m guessing. No ruthless attitude. They put Doncaster on the board!

All good points on this thread and food for thought. Now I must do some work!

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Nice debate.  I believe that Doncaster was canned.  He didn''t "step down."  He was conducting business up to the day he left. He was Delia''s "go-to guy" for years and she finally pulled the plug on him.  I believe sacking Doncaster is the best thing that could happen to the club with the exception of new investment. He really hurt us in a lot of ways, some of which Bigus has mentioned, some not.   

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="astrodyne"][quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....[/quote]Yes but if your girlfriend is as inept at sex as this board are at managing the club, wouldn''t you be better of with wrist strengthening exercises?[/quote]But they can only provide so much satisfaction, and its not long before your internet connection has been exhausted and you''re looking for something a little more 3D to get off on.... that''s when you get desperate, run down to the local and end up telling that tubby lass who works behind the bar but has a good rack that she''s the prettiest girl you''ve ever met and would she, maybe, fancy a drink ''after hours''....... which seems like a good idea until you wake up the next morning, your bed reeking of vodka, vomit and sex-wee and your arm slightly numb from the walrus who''s been happily resting on it all night.  Next thing you know there''s a baby on the way, you''re crying in the vestry wearing a hired suit and that slightly-bad-in-bed girlfriend suddenly seems like the best sex you ever had.....................................................................................I''m guessing, of course............... [8-)][/quote]I''m just praying this isn''t autobiographical !!I think most people here get their wrist strengthening through typing abuse .( non -self abuse ?)

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="CT "]

They own the club- they have to find the new investment.

This doesnt mean rejecting EVERYONE

[/quote]

It is their club and they don''t have to do anything!!   Just as you have a choice whether to look after your car, neglect it till it falls apart with rust or smash it up with an axe, they can do what they like with their club.

If the owners want to keep the club and see it decline to the Norwich pub league then that is their decsion and their right.   You can try and influence them but at the end of the day, they don''t have to do anything they don''t want to do!!   It is called real life.

Did you hear the guy on Fighting Talk on 5live last Saturday morning mocking those like you calling for the Board to go without a replacement lined up??   Listen to it on iplayer and see how many laughs there are in your viewpoint.

[/quote] Cambridge you really are a grade A tosser, It''s you clearly doesn''t get. It''s OUR football club, just like any other team, without fans there is no club. End of. You are just another one of those plastic fans who really doesn''t get football.

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[quote user="fearofambition"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="CT "]

They own the club- they have to find the new investment.

This doesnt mean rejecting EVERYONE

[/quote]

It is their club and they don''t have to do anything!!   Just as you have a choice whether to look after your car, neglect it till it falls apart with rust or smash it up with an axe, they can do what they like with their club.

If the owners want to keep the club and see it decline to the Norwich pub league then that is their decsion and their right.   You can try and influence them but at the end of the day, they don''t have to do anything they don''t want to do!!   It is called real life.

Did you hear the guy on Fighting Talk on 5live last Saturday morning mocking those like you calling for the Board to go without a replacement lined up??   Listen to it on iplayer and see how many laughs there are in your viewpoint.

[/quote] Cambridge you really are a grade A tosser, It''s you clearly doesn''t get. It''s OUR football club, just like any other team, without fans there is no club. End of. You are just another one of those plastic fans who really doesn''t get football.[/quote]

And so ends a wonderfully refreshing thread of predominantly eloquent debate.

You should be proud, son.

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[quote user="Enigmaticquestionmark"]

And so ends a wonderfully refreshing thread of predominantly eloquent debate.

You should be proud, son.

[/quote]Actually, I think I might have ended that already..... I''m secretly a little proud.... [;)]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Enigmaticquestionmark"]

And so ends a wonderfully refreshing thread of predominantly eloquent debate.

You should be proud, son.

[/quote]Actually, I think I might have ended that already..... I''m secretly a little proud.... [;)][/quote]We are talking about a debate that I have started [:O] Cor blimey

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[quote user="CT "]

Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.

The basic facts are we dont know the full extent of people out there that want to come in but for whatever reason havent been able to. It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers but this isnt what I wanted to cover in this thread. A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club

What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.

I dont think its the fans responsibility to come up with the necessary plans to get rid of delia and i also dont think any fans that think we should get rid should be shot down with people asking for their plans of action.

When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.

[/quote]

It''s the easy answer a question with another question routine.....The sheep on here have used it endlessly in order to seek shelter during a pointless debate.

Wrong is wrong howver they may try to spin it.

 

 

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]The only debate you can start, sunshine, is a ma.................... oh sod it, even I won''t go there............[/quote]Would you like me to continue your sentence [:P]

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The way I see it is this. There are not many people who would disagree that the current owners are not good at running the club and lack the financial clout to do much about the current situation even if they want to. We therefore want them to go and be replaced by someone more wealthy. But on the other hand we don''t know who that replacement is going to be. And I assume that nobody less wealthy than Delia would be silly enough to agree to take the club on. This was the same in the case of Mr Chase. But what we did was basically make his life hell by protesting and stuff like that to make it very uncomfortable for him to stay. He was then forced to find someone to buy him out and get out of the club. So why not do the same with Delia and MWJ? If we make life hell for them they will be forced to look at every possible option for them to get out. And that means accepting offers that they may not currently consider. They cannot simply walk away. They are responsible for the club and its debts. Their only choice is to find a buyer at whatever price they can get. We dont need to worry about them walking away and the club going into admin as I do not believe that is an option for them to take.

So what do we have to lose by taking the Chase approach and protesting and making their lives a general misery unless they sell up? I think the worst that can happen is that 6 months into the process, Delia comes on TV crying and begging people to leave her alone because nobody will take the club off her hands. On the other hand there may just be a buyer out there.......

I am not saying that the above is fact but its my view on the situation. If anyone would like to pick holes in my logic or enlighten me to anything I''m missing then please go ahead. If you agree with me on the other hand I''d also be interested to hear what you have to say. So am I wrong or do we get protesting?

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[quote user="Nuff Said"]Evil, what are you drinking? I think I might try it too. [B][/quote]Scarily, I''m on a self-imposed school-night drinking ban! Maybe that''s the problem, I need alcohol in my veins........... [:S]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"][quote user="Nuff Said"]Evil, what are you drinking? I think I might try it too. [B][/quote]Scarily, I''m on a self-imposed school-night drinking ban! Maybe that''s the problem, I need alcohol in my veins........... [:S][/quote]You too? It''s good for the waistline I have to say but recent events have been an excuse to fall off the wagon a few times [:(]

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Anyone got anything to say on this? I thought this would be quite a hot topic and would like to hear what people think about my take on the situation?

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[quote user="CaptnCanary"]Anyone got anything to say on this? I thought this would be quite a hot topic and would like to hear what people think about my take on the situation?[/quote]

 

Shame-full hopefully debate starting bump....

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[quote user="Nuff Said"]CT, why don''t you wait a few years and perhaps when you''ve grown up a bit you''ll understand that 1) life isn''t black and white, 2) just because the nasty cook hasn''t done what you wanted she may be the best/only option the club has right now and 3) if you can''t propose a replacement plan, you can''t explain why things would be better if all the board resigned.

For the avoidance of doubt, what I''m doing here is being deliberately patronising to make the point that Cam wasn''t.
[/quote]

Nuff said you contradict yourself by saying that life isn''t black and white but you want it all mapped out if they do go. If we wait a few years as you suggest we''ll probably keep going in reverse but as you''re as open minded about ambition as Delia is about wanting to move this club forward...it won''t ever happen. Boy it makes me sick to see people who just put up with mediocrity and are happy for second best all the time. I trust you are forgetting when we used to punch above our weight but now its little ol'' Norwich but as long as you are happy with just making up the numbers just about sums you up!!

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The simple truth is, that if Delia and Michael ''walk out'' they put the existance of the club at risk.I suspect that, they, like us, want better things for the club. I suspect also, that they, unlike us, think that they are capable of delivering it. The club has, depended on Delia''s money and catering business (along with the season ticket sales) to survive until now. I don''t know the figures, but I''d be surprised if Delia was worth much less than £4m per year to NCFC.There is a chance that someone will appear if Delia walks. There''s also a chance this won''t happen. I''m not even sure if Delia would legally be entitled to walk... given the debts and responsibilities she holds.Even if someone offers to buy her shares, they''d still need a lot of money on top of that to keep the ship afloat (before they even invest money in new players). As for administration, I can''t claim to know any details about this - other than to say from the looks of Southampton, it doesn''t seem to be as simple as it was a couple of years ago. I guess Barlcays et all don''t want to write off debt too easily and hence encourage more clubs to likewise.Saying "sack the board" is a simplistic view of things without proposing any real alternatives. The only alternatives that I can see are:1. Someone with a lot of money to burn comes in, takes control and throws a lot at the club. 2. Delia and Michael retain ownership but delegate running the clubto an experienced CEO and the football side to a Director of Football.Number two will allow them to keep investing in the club (which will do still need), but will get someone that knows how to run a successful football club to run it!

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Hi Pudd. I believe that ''walking out'' is not an option for Delia. Therefore applying pressure to her will most likely force her into her only option which is to aggressively seek out a buyer or new investment. This is why we think its a good idea to apply the pressure.

When Chase was in charge we did not have a ready made replacement ready to step in - instead we applied pressure to him and he was forced to make a deal happen and so it did. I see little difference between the then and the current need for a change of owners.

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Fast forward a little less than 2 years.  We are on the verge of relegation to the Blue Cheese Prima Donna.

If you are of the opinion that the board/owners should go.  If you choose to voice that opinion on here, you must state your plan for/who will, replace the board/owners, otherwise you have no right to voice your disapproval of the current board/owners and say that you want them to go, right?

[:^)][:|]

 

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Okay Bigus. There are many reasons why I want Delia to go. First and foremost she has presided over some of the worst football I have seen (I have been coming to CR since 1971). She is responsible for seriously flawed business decisions and by that I mean totally responsible. She may well have appointed certain staff to do the day to day running, but she has the ultimate say. If she has appointed staff who are not fit to run the club, she must change them. IF things still go wrong she must then question her own decision making processes.

When Delia came in we were in debt to the tune of roughly 6m. Now it''s roughly estimated at around 20m. Reason one. Despite re negotiating the debt we are still in a far more precarious state than ever. All those years looking for investment and what? There are now three people sitting on the board who have invested. Others have left in mysterious circumstances as the board remain tight lipped on it all.

Lack of appointments of adequately qualified business people. We are now reduced to Mr Foulger calling round on local business men and door knocking. Where do these people operate out of, some sort of fairyland? It''s not only a farce but a sick joke for which we are all paying the price.

While we were in our promotion year and indeed in the Premiership, was investment sought then? Before then? And what, exactly does investment mean in Delia''s eyes, as we have seen it doesn''t mean anyone coming in and taking over a larger shareholding than herself. But hey, it''s in the club''s best interests and that''s all that counts.

Advantage of a complete stranger taking over. Obvious, it would be someone else. We could only hope it would be someone who has some idea about business. Someone with some real ambition to guide the club back to some level of respectability, at least to start with. Frankly we couldn''t do much worse, could we? Look where Delia''s little Norwich mentality has got us.

IMO she could remain at the club, but not be at her present level, ie stepping off the board or at least channelling her voting rights to some body who appoints someone democratically elected, along with more board members with proven track records - those with a knowledge of football, business, marketing etc.

Above all we need some accountability. At present decision are made at board level which quite frankly have resulted in disaster. Those at the top carry the can.

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