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Why does wanting the board out mean you have to come up with a replacement plan?

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Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.

The basic facts are we dont know the full extent of people out there that want to come in but for whatever reason havent been able to. It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers but this isnt what I wanted to cover in this thread. A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club

What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.

I dont think its the fans responsibility to come up with the necessary plans to get rid of delia and i also dont think any fans that think we should get rid should be shot down with people asking for their plans of action.

When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.

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I posted about this a week or so ago, saying exactly what you''ve said. Whenever you say you want the board some one always pops up with the "who''s gonna replace them then" line. It''s a strawman argument, just like you don''t know when you put your house on the market who''s gonna buy it. The simple fact is, if Delia''s reasonable, and by reasonable I mean expecting a lot less than she currently wants then i''m certain there will be people around who want to take the club off her hands.

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It is a very simple financial fact - the minute your ownership changes (i.e Delia and Co go) it triggers the repayment of at least £22m pounds which you owe to banks and the Turners.  Unless you have someone ready to step in and pay those loans or with enough financial clout to renegotiate them your club will go bust.

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]It is a very simple financial fact - the minute your ownership changes (i.e Delia and Co go) it triggers the repayment of at least £22m pounds which you owe to banks and the Turners.  Unless you have someone ready to step in and pay those loans or with enough financial clout to renegotiate them your club will go bust.[/quote]

Yes you patronising wotsit I fully understand that. Is it the fans responsibility to come up with answers to the question of whos going to replace them?

We dont know who is out there (i bet if the valuation was halved and the repayment of debt wasnt compulsory then we would have plenty of suitable people willing to buy Delia out).

They own the club, ergo their responsibility. Geddit?

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Ok let’s get to the meat of this. Please list the reasons why Delia has to go CT.  I’m not starting an argument, I am genuinely interested in yours/others opinion. List what makes her the one who has to go and not any other board member. Do you not think Doncaster held any responsibility in guiding the board as Chief Executive? What advantage do you see of a complete stranger taking her place on the board, even if that person was given Delia''s shares for nothing. Let’s see if we can have some constructive and reasoned points below without irrational abuse.

-Bigus

 

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[quote user="Bigus"]

Ok let’s get to the meat of this. Please list the reasons why Delia has to go CT.  I’m not starting an argument, I am genuinely interested in yours/others opinion. List what makes her the one who has to go and not any other board member. Do you not think Doncaster held any responsibility in guiding the board as Chief Executive? What advantage do you see of a complete stranger taking her place on the board, even if that person was given Delia''s shares for nothing. Let’s see if we can have some constructive and reasoned points below without irrational abuse.

-Bigus

 

[/quote]

In the title i have stated board have i not? Yes I am sorry for targetting Delia...

Or am I? ATM Delia and her husband alongside one other person make the board and the other people have left so they have IMO accepted responsonsibility.

Reasons for Delia/MWJ going:

1) no ambition from them which has left this club rotten to the core

2) the cringeworthy statements that SHE has made about ''little norwich city'' which has left us a laughing stock

3) Not even speaking to Cullum especially after his PUBLIC INTEREST - this point applies to other potential investors im sure (even if they havent been public)

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[quote user="Camuldonum"]It is a very simple financial fact - the minute your ownership changes (i.e Delia and Co go) it triggers the repayment of at least £22m pounds which you owe to banks and the Turners.  Unless you have someone ready to step in and pay those loans or with enough financial clout to renegotiate them your club will go bust.[/quote]Or pay it off entirely, like Cullum promised to do.

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[quote user="CT "]

[quote user="Camuldonum"]It is a very simple financial fact - the minute your ownership changes (i.e Delia and Co go) it triggers the repayment of at least £22m pounds which you owe to banks and the Turners.  Unless you have someone ready to step in and pay those loans or with enough financial clout to renegotiate them your club will go bust.[/quote]

Yes you patronising wotsit I fully understand that. Is it the fans responsibility to come up with answers to the question of whos going to replace them?

We dont know who is out there (i bet if the valuation was halved and the repayment of debt wasnt compulsory then we would have plenty of suitable people willing to buy Delia out).

They own the club, ergo their responsibility. Geddit?

[/quote]

They own the club, ergo their choice. Geddit?

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CT, why don''t you wait a few years and perhaps when you''ve grown up a bit you''ll understand that 1) life isn''t black and white, 2) just because the nasty cook hasn''t done what you wanted she may be the best/only option the club has right now and 3) if you can''t propose a replacement plan, you can''t explain why things would be better if all the board resigned.For the avoidance of doubt, what I''m doing here is being deliberately patronising to make the point that Cam wasn''t.

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[quote user="Nuff Said"]CT, why don''t you wait a few years and perhaps when you''ve grown up a bit you''ll understand that 1) life isn''t black and white, 2) just because the nasty cook hasn''t done what you wanted she may be the best/only option the club has right now and 3) if you can''t propose a replacement plan, you can''t explain why things would be better if all the board resigned.

For the avoidance of doubt, what I''m doing here is being deliberately patronising to make the point that Cam wasn''t.
[/quote]

So are you saying you want the board in then?

Care to state your reasons?

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[quote user="CT "]Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.[/quote]You don''t - but a replacement is a prerequisite to getting rid of the board.[quote user="CT "]It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers [/quote]It is not mine - but I don''t really know any more than you do. I hope there is a rich knight in shining armour out there to pour millions into the club. [quote user="CT "]A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club[/quote]That was not the valuation. It included the cost of paying of the debts referred to above and the 20 million for player purchase.[quote user="CT "]What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.[/quote]Fair enough, you don''t like patronising comments, I can understand that. I think you will find other viewpoints, like being pro Gunn receive their fair share too.[quote user="CT "]When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.[/quote]The Chase saga went on for a long time too. He was not replaced until someone was found to buy his shares. Not everybody was against him either.

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[quote user="CT "]

They own the club- they have to find the new investment.

This doesnt mean rejecting EVERYONE

[/quote]

It is their club and they don''t have to do anything!!   Just as you have a choice whether to look after your car, neglect it till it falls apart with rust or smash it up with an axe, they can do what they like with their club.

If the owners want to keep the club and see it decline to the Norwich pub league then that is their decsion and their right.   You can try and influence them but at the end of the day, they don''t have to do anything they don''t want to do!!   It is called real life.

Did you hear the guy on Fighting Talk on 5live last Saturday morning mocking those like you calling for the Board to go without a replacement lined up??   Listen to it on iplayer and see how many laughs there are in your viewpoint.

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[quote user="CT "]

[quote user="Nuff Said"]CT, why don''t you wait a few years and perhaps when you''ve grown up a bit you''ll understand that 1) life isn''t black and white, 2) just because the nasty cook hasn''t done what you wanted she may be the best/only option the club has right now and 3) if you can''t propose a replacement plan, you can''t explain why things would be better if all the board resigned.For the avoidance of doubt, what I''m doing here is being deliberately patronising to make the point that Cam wasn''t.[/quote]

So are you saying you want the board in then?

Care to state your reasons?

[/quote]I think there are three possibles situations and I would rank them in this order:1) A new owner(s), who put more money into the club than the current owners can.Hopefully they will be able to make better decisions regarding the running of the club too, although we will only ever know this with hindsight (which we''re seeing a lot of at the moment).2) The current owners stay in place3) Delia and Michael walk awayI personally would rate number 2 many many times better than 3, as we would be forced into emergency measures if Delia and Michael did walk which would almost certainly end in administration and a further reduction in money available to fund the team, plus the points deduction. OK?

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[quote user="Badger"]You don''t - but a replacement is a prerequisite to getting rid of the board.[/quote]It is, but it''s not a prerequisite of the fans on this message board or else where to say who that person may be every time the question of replacing the board comes up. It''s the boards responsbility to find a new owner, if that means jumping on a plane and scowering the four corners of this earth then so be it. And if they aren''t doing that then it''s the right of the fans of this club to put pressure on them to do so.http://www.thestar.co.uk/sportheadlines/Sheffield-Wednesday-seek-US-investment.5240480.jp

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="CT "]

They own the club- they have to find the new investment.

This doesnt mean rejecting EVERYONE

[/quote]

It is their club and they don''t have to do anything!!   Just as you have a choice whether to look after your car, neglect it till it falls apart with rust or smash it up with an axe, they can do what they like with their club.

If the owners want to keep the club and see it decline to the Norwich pub league then that is their decsion and their right.   You can try and influence them but at the end of the day, they don''t have to do anything they don''t want to do!!   It is called real life.

Did you hear the guy on Fighting Talk on 5live last Saturday morning mocking those like you calling for the Board to go without a replacement lined up??   Listen to it on iplayer and see how many laughs there are in your viewpoint.

[/quote]You''re right. It is there club and they are free to do with it as they choose. They shouldn''t be surprised though when the fanbase turns against them and other fans shouldnt be surprised with the views expressed on here even towards the stowmarket 2 if that is indeed how they view this club.

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[quote user="CT "]

Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.

The basic facts are we dont know the full extent of people out there that want to come in but for whatever reason havent been able to. It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers but this isnt what I wanted to cover in this thread. A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club

What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.

I dont think its the fans responsibility to come up with the necessary plans to get rid of delia and i also dont think any fans that think we should get rid should be shot down with people asking for their plans of action.

When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.

[/quote]Because the arguement that they should go is based on two premises:(1) This board is bad.(2) A new board would be better.Therefore this board should be replaced.Without an alternative, step (2) is the dodgy step in this argument.   It is not a strawman argument as someone said here - it is the main weak point in the argument -  1) and the logical deduction are definately true and generally agreed upon.  If you can''t back up your argument how can you expect to convince anyone with it?And your opinion that DS has rejected alot of offers isn''t enough to base (2) on, it being the opinion of someone who has no facts but really really wants it to be true*.  There is as much evidence for there being no serious alternative as for many offers (since lack of evidence is evidence in neither direction).  Frankly it comes down to how optimistic you are, pessimists will expect that (2) is not true, optimists that it is.  Well done for being a optimist though, our recent preformances has killed that in me.*you are not alone in this, everyone hopes that there have been many serious offers in the best interests of the club.

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[quote user="7rew"][quote user="CT "]

Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.

The basic facts are we dont know the full extent of people out there that want to come in but for whatever reason havent been able to. It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers but this isnt what I wanted to cover in this thread. A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club

What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.

I dont think its the fans responsibility to come up with the necessary plans to get rid of delia and i also dont think any fans that think we should get rid should be shot down with people asking for their plans of action.

When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.

[/quote]Because the arguement that they should go is based on two premises:(1) This board is bad.(2) A new board would be better.Therefore this board should be replaced.Without an alternative, step (2) is the dodgy step in this argument.   It is not a strawman argument as someone said here - it is the main weak point in the argument -  1) and the logical deduction are definately true and generally agreed upon.  If you can''t back up your argument how can you expect to convince anyone with it?And your opinion that DS has rejected alot of offers isn''t enough to base (2) on, it being the opinion of someone who has no facts but really really wants it to be true*.  There is as much evidence for there being no serious alternative as for many offers (since lack of evidence is evidence in neither direction).  Frankly it comes down to how optimistic you are, pessimists will expect that (2) is not true, optimists that it is.  Well done for being a optimist though, our recent preformances has killed that in me.*you are not alone in this, everyone hopes that there have been many serious offers in the best interests of the club.[/quote]Forgive me for being thick - but what are you actually trying to say?

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With regards to the ongoing ''no offers'' argument. None of us knows either way whether serious offers has been made.  One thing is certain, the ''no foreigners'' statement would have put investors off, and a reasonable answer to the Tweed story.

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Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....
[/quote]

Awesome analogy! 10/10 mate [*][Y]

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....[/quote]Yes but if your girlfriend is as inept at sex as this board are at managing the club, wouldn''t you be better of with wrist strengthening exercises?

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[quote user="astrodyne"][quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....[/quote]Yes but if your girlfriend is as inept at sex as this board are at managing the club, wouldn''t you be better of with wrist strengthening exercises?[/quote]Unfortunately that isn''t an option for a football club board!

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[quote user="7rew"][quote user="CT "]

Forgive me for this but I fail to see why wanting the board means having to come up with a replacement plan.

The basic facts are we dont know the full extent of people out there that want to come in but for whatever reason havent been able to. It is my opinion that Delia has rejected a lot of offers but this isnt what I wanted to cover in this thread. A £56 million valuation of a struggling (then championship )club

What i want to cover is the patronising comments made by various people on this message board like ''so when will you be investing your millions into the club'' ''there will be no club without investment and theres no-one out there to invest''.

I dont think its the fans responsibility to come up with the necessary plans to get rid of delia and i also dont think any fans that think we should get rid should be shot down with people asking for their plans of action.

When Mr. Chase no-one came up with any ways to replace him- the fans just acted and protested against him and his regime. Why is now not the same? The principals are.

[/quote]

It is not a strawman argument as someone said here - it is the main weak point in the argument -  1) and the logical deduction are definately true and generally agreed upon.  If you can''t back up your argument how can you expect to convince anyone with it?

[/quote]My point about the strawman is that fan''s on this message board should not be expected to be provide the name, address, first girlfriend etc etc. of any potential buyer when they suggest they''d like the board removed. It''s illogical to suggest that unless you can provide these things the argument to get rid of the board is worthless as many have tried to do.

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CT Said...

1) no ambition from them which has left this club rotten to the core

2) the cringeworthy statements that SHE has made about ''little norwich city'' which has left us a laughing stock

3) Not even speaking to Cullum especially after his PUBLIC INTEREST - this point applies to other potential investors im sure (even if they havent been public)

Its just frustrating is all. It is their club, of course it is- it just feels as though it should belong to the fans.

But it doesnt.

Ok. Let’s take a run at this.

1) We should not confuse ''lack of ambition'' with ''lack of money''. Delia Smith wants to see Norwich City in the Premier League as much as anyone does. In this World of football, going to the EPL and staying there involves rich Arabs, Russians and Americans. Delia simply cannot play this game. She doesn''t have the cash. I believe she is highly ambitious, like all fans. I am sure she wishes she''d never bothered in the first place. Delia Smith takes advice from the board and the Chief Exec. Who just got fired. He didn''t step down, he was fired for failure. That was Delia''s doing. She is finally realizing that the advice, financial and football has been very bad indeed. Doncaster is gone now and we need to see what other changes take place before getting carried away. We also need to look back at pre-Delia Norwich City as look at the 12,000 crowds and stands that were falling apart.

2) Ok, Delia is sometimes awkward and really should let a spokesman do the talking for her. I grant you that, but does this deserve abuse on message boards? Nasty comments, some so disgusting I can''t believe that people could think them, let alone write them. I am not great public speaker either, are you?

3) Right here, I declare that I..Bigus want to buy Norwich City...Are you listening EDP? I want to run NCFC.  Neither you, nor I know the facts about Peter Cullum. We cannot judge. I was under the impression that they had met about the issue. But regardless. Without the facts, it’s wrong to make up scenarios with no substantial evidence. Cullum has a large mouth and says he wants to buy the club? Come on, the man has BILLIONS and he argues over 22 mil in debt and some shares? I believe that he inquired and realized that he doesn''t have the blood for it or want the burden or the abuse, and ran a mile. Or did he? Point is I don''t know and neither do people inside the club. Only the board know.

If it was their club, the fans would have no say. And we all do. Worthington, Roeder, Doncaster! The fans opinions are taken in to account and you will have to travel a long way to find a club that is so accessible to its supporters.

Here in the states, the sports teams could not give a rats about the fans, the TV money and merchandise outweighs ticket sales by so much that they just raise the prices at will. The Giants even introduced a seat license and season ticket holders who have been going for 40 years have to find 20,000 dollars a seat on top of increased prices for tickets per game. A license to just have the right to buy a ticket! That''s a mortgage to take a family of 4 to a game.

I digress, the facts here, are as follows...

We have a new manager, it''s done, a decision has been made and now everyone should back him and get behind the team.

There are NO major investors sniffing around Norwich City currently. The Turner''s 2 mill shortfall will have to be found again this year and that will probably come from Delia. The Chief Executive has been canned and he was responsible for a lot more than you think. People on here aimed abuse at him, he did a bad job, fans wanted him gone and low and behold. He is gone. Some people are never happy and now need to turn that anger at someone else.

Will the changes bring success? Maybe, maybe not. But I personally can''t comment on that until I see what happens, how we do next season and how the board changes affect the club as a whole.

-Bigus

P.S I will now wait for the army of teenagers who are sure to type derogatory and childish abuse below. Show me how eloquent you can be.

 

 

 

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[quote user="astrodyne"][quote user="Evil Monkey"]Its like dumping your girlfriend because you want to have the best sex in the world, which she just can''t deliver, and not having Jenna Jameson or Jana Cova lined up to replace her, greatly increasing the chances of ending up with the village slapper instead....[/quote]Yes but if your girlfriend is as inept at sex as this board are at managing the club, wouldn''t you be better of with wrist strengthening exercises?[/quote]But they can only provide so much satisfaction, and its not long before your internet connection has been exhausted and you''re looking for something a little more 3D to get off on.... that''s when you get desperate, run down to the local and end up telling that tubby lass who works behind the bar but has a good rack that she''s the prettiest girl you''ve ever met and would she, maybe, fancy a drink ''after hours''....... which seems like a good idea until you wake up the next morning, your bed reeking of vodka, vomit and sex-wee and your arm slightly numb from the walrus who''s been happily resting on it all night.  Next thing you know there''s a baby on the way, you''re crying in the vestry wearing a hired suit and that slightly-bad-in-bed girlfriend suddenly seems like the best sex you ever had.....................................................................................I''m guessing, of course............... [8-)]

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[quote user="Bigus"]

1) We should not confuse ''lack of ambition'' with ''lack of money''. Delia Smith wants to see Norwich City in the Premier League as much as anyone does. In this World of football, going to the EPL and staying there involves rich Arabs, Russians and Americans. Delia simply cannot play this game. She doesn''t have the cash. I believe she is highly ambitious, like all fans. I am sure she wishes she''d never bothered in the first place. Delia Smith takes advice from the board and the Chief Exec. Who just got fired. He didn''t step down, he was fired for failure. That was Delia''s doing. She is finally realizing that the advice, financial and football has been very bad indeed. Doncaster is gone now and we need to see what other changes take place before getting carried away. We also need to look back at pre-Delia Norwich City as look at the 12,000 crowds and stands that were falling apart.

[/quote]1) I disagree. When we got promoted, all that money for going up would have been thrust straight into the transfer budget if we were serious about staying up. Instead we were greeted with the "Little Norwich Adventure" trip, not to mention her appalling drunken episode on the pitch. True ambition would have been shown at that point, instead the club as a whole treated it as nothing more than an exciting period of history with relegation as a certainty.2) If Delia doesn''t have the money to compete then why won''t she leave? I don''t buy this "nobody wants to buy the club", the moment a Norfolk billionaire showed interest the board put a brick wall around the club and refused to negotiate, Delia regards NCFC as her personal plaything, he party to run. Which is bad news for us fans, as the woman has about as much footballing expertise as a wooden cricket bat. You only have to look at the managerial appointments and recent footballing ethos such as loan players and off-pitch investment to see this.3) No, he stepped down. He was probably under pressure to do so, but Delia didn''t suddenly come to her senses and kick him out, otherwise she''d have done it years ago when it was shown that the man lacked any sort of footballing knowledge. He was a lawyer, a very well paid one at that. And even if she did realise his advice was flawed, how fdo you explain why she''s decided to make Gunn''s appointment ANYWAY without finding someone to replace Doncaster who may just have a different opinion?

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