NCISA

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Loan City Fc "]Get the right people running the club and a 15 point penalty wont be to hard to overcome , its not like we are getting promoted anytime soon with Smith running things.
[/quote]

It''s this simplistic view of administration being part of the modern games points totals and league positions that totally baffles me. Could someone explain the harsh reality of what administration could mean to our football club, city and county apart from the obvious football penalties? What would happen to our assets? What would happen to Colney and our ground? What would happen to our creditors?

It goes a lot deeper than a few points and Smith&Jones losing money that they don''t expect to see again anyway.

 

[/quote]

under administration rules, all assetts of the club are frozen with view to being sold to repay the debts if no repayments solution can be found, the club is in 20 million of debt therfore if no buyer can be found to purchase the club under a rescue package the club will be wound down, the ground sold and the training ground sold to repay debts, as delia has loans with the club she would be by default allowed revenue back from the sale of the ground and fixed assets, scarboruogh town were the clear example of this the club had debts and went into adminstration no buyer was found and the courts granted closure of the club,

under admin rules the club could be bought for a pound but any buyer would have to agree to refinance the club ultimately clearing all debts but exchanging the debts into his name and thus being liable for those debts,

bates did this at chelsea bought the club for a pound and took all debts on with the club, unfortunately this can sometimes only be a temporary solution as with debts still on the club and the club not making a profit the club is unfortunately doomed to repeat the process.

with regards to surrounding areas and affects, matchday money making pubs will be affected, the surrounding area with housing will affect house prices, the flats on the river front by the ground are a the price they are because of the football ground, no ground there no high price houses, not only that if unfortuantely the club does go under, job losses will happen, more unemployment,

administration is not a good thing for any club

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Bx3 - True, but that is not what posters are saying. The collective wisdom appears to be that a points deduction equals automatic relegation which is clearly not true as Rotherham, Bournemouth and Leeds Utd have all avoided being relegated despite starting the season on minus points, from memory Rotherham started this season on minus 17 points and managed to finish 14th. Administration may not be a bad thing, as we all know it is usually the worst tasting medicine that does us the most good.....[/quote]Our best chance of getting out of league 1 is at the first attempt - leave it any longer and the number of renewals will go down, whether or not they put shiny new yellow seats in.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

RA All the Way - So what harm has administration done to Ippo?. I find your link to the flat prices near to the ground and NCFC puzzling, they are not selling particularly well at the moment given the economic downturn, I know somebody who has just purchased one for £18,000 under the original asking price, or given your link, is the price reduction down to the fact we are going to be playing in the third tier of English football? 

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Bx3 - True, but that is not what posters are saying. The collective wisdom appears to be that a points deduction equals automatic relegation which is clearly not true as Rotherham, Bournemouth and Leeds Utd have all avoided being relegated despite starting the season on minus points, from memory Rotherham started this season on minus 17 points and managed to finish 14th. Administration may not be a bad thing, as we all know it is usually the worst tasting medicine that does us the most good.....[/quote]Our best chance of getting out of league 1 is at the first attempt - leave it any longer and the number of renewals will go down, whether or not they put shiny new yellow seats in.[/quote]

but if they give the 500,000 back to the fans he cant have his shiny yellow seat due to lack of funds for SoB shiny yellow seat fund

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]RA All the Way - So what harm has administration done to Ippo?. I find your link to the flat prices near to the ground and NCFC puzzling, they are not selling particularly well at the moment given the economic downturn, I know somebody who has just purchased one for £18,000 under the original asking price, or given your link, is the price reduction down to the fact we are going to be playing in the third tier of English football? [/quote]

Do ipswich own there own ground, no they dont, remember ipswich went into administration before the penaltys rule came in so the club wasnt penalised by the league for that, do you think ipswich would be in the position there in if they hadve started the season they went into administration with a points decuction, it may well have sent them into the league below and they certainly wouldnt of had the major investment from evans if that had of happened,

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

Blah x 3 - Agreed, I am yet to be convinced that we have the board and management team to achieve that aim, but as ever I am more than happy to be proved totally and utterly wrong. And for the record I treat with contempt any emotional blackmail concerning the season ticket rebate, the board got us in to this muddle and they can blooming well get us out of it, they should be blooming well grateful that they have had 18,000+ season ticket renewals given the current situation, if they are that concerned about the club, they should top up any shortfall as a result of not all of the fans waiving the rebate out of their own pockets.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Agreed, I am yet to be convinced that we have the board and management

team to achieve that aim, but as ever I am more than happy to be proved

totally and utterly wrong[/quote]I am also yet to be convinced, even more so by recent events - companies that don''t listen to their customers tend to run out of customers eventually, even companies that have loyal customers such as football clubs.If the incumbents want to continue to have the backing of a lot of Norfolk, unfortunately they will have to dig even further into their pockets to dig us out of this, as I can''t see the money coming from anywhere else, regardless of what Michael Foulger says.

[gsr600 0]

SoB theres is a link between house prices and certain types of buildings, football grounds and various other building types certainly do have a affect and can drastically increase the price of house, the flats on the river down near the old jarrold printing building are cheaper then the ones on the river by carrow road, everywhere there is a dwonturn in the economy and the price of houses has gone down but the houses around the ground are still more expensive then the same type of house further down the river

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Claim the refund and spend it on merchandise.  Make the Club work for the money and get some value back but still put it in the coffers.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Claim the refund and spend it on merchandise.  Make the Club work for the money and get some value back but still put it in the coffers.[/quote]

 

 

Despite the efforts of those who wish to portray the NCISA meeting (which none of them seem to have attended) as an angry mob intent on destroying the club, that''s pretty much what was put forward. The actual suggestions were based around two main concepts:

1. Take the rebate and either pass it to the NCST to buy more shares or use it as a bargaining chip to open proper communication of grievances with the club.

2. Return season tickets and pay on a pergame basis to allow for "voting with the feet". This would, of course, if the board made an effort to work with the fans rather than against them, result in MORE money, not less for the club. The difference being, of course, that they would actually have to work for it.

As a very middle of the road poster I''m getting increasingly hacked off by the various attempts to twist the contents of Thursday''s meeting (take a bow LQ). It seems that lack of honesty isn''t just confined to the Carra boardroom.

[LQ 0]

Hang on a minute, this is the second time today...Where exactly have I portrayed the NCISA meeting as a mob, angry or otherwise?I have no reason to and wouldn''t.

[Time to go Delia 0]

Lq is a staunch Board supporter always has been and was always against Cullum as soon as his name was mentioned last year , on the elite SCG and has some business dealings with the club so probably more interested in Lq than Norwich City .

[LQ 0]

Absolute rubbish all of that. But hey, take the easy option in order to denigrate someone''s opinion why don''t you?I''ve just been accused of lying and now that I have more interest in myself than the Club (and the business dealings which are relatively small are done for free to save them some money).Charming.That''ll do I think.

[gsr600 0]

wats with all the devout delia fanisms going around, i for one do not like her, nor do i want her in charge, but i would be more happier to have delia in power then our club go the way of southampton and scarborourgh etc, i would rather have my club i support survive in league one then not have a club to support at all, does that make me a bad fan no, wat makes a pointless supporter is wiching the club to end up the way of southampton (non existent),

i can guarantee every single member of NCISA would be probably be lynched by the majority of fans if it was there actions that caused norwich to cease to be,

i like the NCISA, they have in past done some great work for the club but in the end thats all that can be done is to vent frustrations at meetings because until a viable option is found for the club we can do nothing about delias tenure until that viable option is found, rules are rules any buyer has to clear the debts and buy the majority shares, and make a offer for the remainder thats the rules, the debt is 20 million so 20 million will clear the debt, if i had shares i wouldnt let them go for free nor would any of you either so why should delia, shes a business woman after all(albeit not a very good one),

quick question for everyone, if you owned norwich and it was going seriously wrong would you give your shares as owner away for nothing losing millions of your own money in the process. doubt it so why do yo expect the current owners to do this.

LQ seems to be on the ball with wat a supporter is, support the club no maytter whos the owner, support the club no matter whos playing for em, support the club through thick and thin, the bad times and the worst times because thats what a fan does, yeah we are all frustrated at the position the clubs now but to want the club to fail and the club to go into administation and possibly exist that is certainly not what a fan is.

Ive been a fan for over 25 years, ive ssen the good times like uefa cup, and ive seen the bad times like relegation to league one, and ive seen the worst times like the hurt and fear in peoples faces during the chase out protests but id go through all that again to make sure my club exists so i can support them no matter whos in charge,

[CanaryOne 0]

Delia has already lost her millions she is never going to get them back now , thats if she hasnt already had them back with a few more on top . This club is going nowhere untill she is removed , i dont think we will go out of existence once shes gone thats just what the Delialites want you to believe.

[gsr600 0]

yeah she might of lost millions already but when someone comes along to buy the club she will make some back, if someone buys the club of course it will survive because the debt wouldve has to been paid off by the new ownerallbeit probably refinanced to pay for the club ala MANU style with the Glazers, debt secured on club to buy out delia and clear current debt, but if no investor or buyer can be found theres nothing that we can do, however if the club goes into administration because of half a million quid is paid out to fans not willing to forgo there rebate is hardly gonna make the club a good prospect for a buyer,

why would a buyer buy a club whos fans are one minute the best in the country with there support at filling grounds then the next hurling abuse at a owner because they dont like the way things are done,

[Rustys 1st Touch 0]

Thats football isn''t, any investor would know that if the team is not performing well then they will be criticised. Any investor who doesn''t know that must be very naive. Rough with the smooth.

[Wembley_Canary 0]

[quote user="ratw"]yeah she might of lost millions already but when someone comes along to buy the club she will make some back, if someone buys the club of course it will survive because the debt wouldve has to been paid off by the new ownerallbeit probably refinanced to pay for the club ala MANU style with the Glazers, debt secured on club to buy out delia and clear current debt, but if no investor or buyer can be found theres nothing that we can do, however if the club goes into administration because of half a million quid is paid out to fans not willing to forgo there rebate is hardly gonna make the club a good prospect for a buyer, why would a buyer buy a club whos fans are one minute the best in the country with there support at filling grounds then the next hurling abuse at a owner because they dont like the way things are done,[/quote]

Maybe a buyer witha backbone would.

[Jez 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

I think that NCISA are on the right lines with the call to claim the season ticket rebates. It seems to me that this is the only way to get the board''s attention, and the heavy-handed smear campaign against Andy Larkin on this forum over the weekend, by the multi-named Mr Bumpkin suggests that this is seen within Fortress Carra as a very real threat.

In my view this is by far and away the most powerful card in the fans'' armoury and I just hope it isn''t wasted, although having read the pusillanomous statement issued by the Associate Directors I fear for the club even more.

[/quote]

Why is it anyone''s business what the fans do with their money?  Both arguments are fair, if someone wants to apply for the rebate then so be it, League 1 Football should be cheaper than championship football.  If someone wants to pay the full amount so that the club have the money then so be it, they should be lauded for their commitment to the club.  One thing is clear, £500,000 less isn''t going to bankrupt the club, if the difference between administration and not is £500,000 then the likelihood is that we''ll go into administration anyway and it isn''t the fans fault for claiming a rebate.  Similarly just because someone doesn''t claim the rebate doesn''t mean they''re supporting the board or be blamed for the clubs current woes.  We should be rallying behind the club because if Gunn does well then Norwich does well, wanting Gunn to fail is wanting Norwich to fail.I''m not going to tell people what to do with their money, especially when it comes to the rebate, so why can''t everyone else just let the individuals choose?  Whether or not people claim the rebate is the least of our worries.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

I''m amazed at how people seem to be not just jumping to conclusions, but getting in their cars and driving at 100mph towards a conclusion.

Right to the meeting which was attended by most of the usual suspects at all these meetings (forums, meet the Board, AGMs the lot!) and for me the most noticable thing was how individual fans had changed their opinion over the years about the way the Club is run.

I had the pleasure (yes I mean it) of talking to several people off here as well as others who don''t post on here and understanding their viewpoint.  Admittedly some things we will never agree on (O''Neill v Worthington for instance) but on the whole views on what had gone wrong at the club were consistent.

However it would be wrong to say that all were agreed on what to do, and if NCISA is criticised for a lack of an action plan, then I think these differing views are the reason.

What was agreed was that Delia and MWJ were not facing up to the negative viewpoints as comments from them prove.

So a message had to be given to them but most people were concerned that the message should not deal a major blow to the club. Hence suggestions of claiming the rebate and then donating it through the Trust, or spending it in some other way (Academy, shop, trust account etc).

Unfortunately there is a siege mentality amongst SOME employees and SOME fans that means that they have chosen a route of discrediting NCISA and the suggestion. This is a shame but from what I am hearing it is actually working against them as even more fans are deciding that something has to be done to make Delia, MWJ and the siege mentalitists listen

I urge everyone to claim their rebate but to return it to the Club if they are financially able.

Bravo win or die ......

[gsr600 0]

no ones disputing the fact the rebate should be claimed if they want it back but alot of people are disgusted in some fans opinions that they want there money back from there season tickets or canceling the tickets completely because theyd rather have our club in adminitration then delia in charge, thats no way to be a fan,

if i was a season ticket holder and there are very good reasons i aint one(ie being out of the country for six months at a time makes it not really viable for me)then i personally wouldnt have the rebate as the club needs all the finances they can get in this hard time. and thats the thought of some people on here to that they dont want the rebate because they dont want to hurt the club, this doesnt make them delia siege mentalists this makes them a fan like everyone on this forum and beyond, were all noriwch fans, well maybe not those who want the club to fail as i cant see why any fan would want that.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

If you really care about your club and don''t want them to go into Administration, perhaps you should buy a season ticket anyway, or at least donate 20% of the cost to them?

After all it is a question of giving them money you don''t have to what is the difference from those reclaiming it?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="LQ"]Typical.

Belittle my comments as being part of an anti-NCISA agenda. I couldn''t possibly be just a fan with a different opinion now could I?

Don''t you see that all this categorising is damaging? Not everyone will feel the same about everything all the time, but at the end of the day we''re all fans aren''t we?



[/quote]

Lisal, be honest for once, you''ve always been in bed with the board!

[gsr600 0]

I spend approx £100 in the club shop 4 times a year, aswell as paying for a family of four to go whenever we play at home when i am home, i think i give as much money to the club as i can afford in various spending ways.

[Norfolk Dumpling 14]

Wanting to claim your 20% back may be for a variety of reasons.

I suspect that many would return the money to the club when they see that the Board has fresh faces who can lead the Club forward in how it manages money, makes decisions and learn from mistakes. The day to day business of running the club''s finances has to change.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

[quote user="ratw"]I spend approx £100 in the club shop 4 times a year, aswell as paying for a family of four to go whenever we play at home when i am home, i think i give as much money to the club as i can afford in various spending ways.[/quote]

 

But you are avoiding the question.  If Delia tells the press in six weeks time that rebates to the tune of £250,000 have been reclaimed and that if the Club does not increase turnover by £100,000 in the next month it will go into Administration, would you send (to use City Angels''s ST price as a guide) £85 to the Club straight away?

Please answer the question.

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="ratw"]I spend approx £100 in the club shop 4 times a year, aswell as paying for a family of four to go whenever we play at home when i am home, i think i give as much money to the club as i can afford in various spending ways.[/quote]

Good for you mate, well done for doing your best.............despite some posters trying to say I''m a better fan than you, you did your best.[Y]

[gsr600 0]

yes i would give it as if it meant the difference between staving off administration id give as much as i could afford to,

[gsr600 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="ratw"]I spend approx £100 in the club shop 4 times a year, aswell as paying for a family of four to go whenever we play at home when i am home, i think i give as much money to the club as i can afford in various spending ways.[/quote]

Good for you mate, well done for doing your best.............despite some posters trying to say I''m a better fan than you, you did your best.[Y]

[/quote]

cheers wiz, im not the greatest fan in the world as i dont go to every game and i dont have a season ticket, and i wish i could tho, i admire greatly every citry fan that goes to every game and gives it all for the club they love but im not going to be placed in a bracket of either being a delia basher or a delia lover because as a fan all im interetsed in is the club i love, i couldnt care less whos in charge all i want to see is the glory days bought back to carrow road, but am i going to want the club in administration just to get delia out no cos that will be worse for the club, am i going to boycott matches or not buy merchandise because the money goes into the club and thus keeps delia in her happy go lucky fantasy world she lives, no im going to keep going, im going to keep buying because i love the club

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="face"]

[quote user="ratw"]I spend approx £100 in the club shop 4 times a year, aswell as paying for a family of four to go whenever we play at home when i am home, i think i give as much money to the club as i can afford in various spending ways.[/quote]

 

But you are avoiding the question.  If Delia tells the press in six weeks time that rebates to the tune of £250,000 have been reclaimed and that if the Club does not increase turnover by £100,000 in the next month it will go into Administration, would you send (to use City Angels''s ST price as a guide) £85 to the Club straight away?

Please answer the question.

 [/quote]

This scenario wouldn''t occur - if it came down to it I''m certain that the shareholders would bridge that gap, as they already put millions into the club.