Does anyone support the reappointment of Gunn?

[Irish canary 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]Thanks to everyone who has replied to this - i''m heartened by the level headed and well thought through responses. I was expecting a barrage of angry unreasoned replies. You''ve made my mind up - he does have to go. I do have some time for the board''s argument for having someone who knows NCFC and its traditions, and i was hesitating about throwing out someone who is so clearly determined to restore some pride to the club he and we love. But if he''s not equipped to do that, then i guess how much he loves the club is irrelevant. I said he''s a good man manager but that means getting the best out of players and he didn''t do that. Our full backs in particular seem to have disappeared completely in the last few weeks. So fo me, there really is only one choice. If he wants the job. And that''s Mark Robins. He knows the league, has the experience and the track record, and has the obvious connections. I would like him to keep Butterworth and Crook, but i imagine he''d want his own people. The Sky Sports story was interesting - does anyone else think that was leaked from inside in order to test the water for a Gunn reappointment?[/quote]

 

not a bad theory A1, quite possible I think, or maybe just what everyone is expecting to hear even though they do not want it! Hopefully the fans forums will bring out same responses, leaving them no choice, unless they want to upset people even more! but then again who would be suprised

[Mtv 0]

no!

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Good point well made Wiz but his general avuncular skills do seem to have respect.[/quote]

Not with me CC.

Why not employ my favourite legend Flecky, or find a backroom job for life for Mike Walker? he lost his dear wife whilst manager at City, surly he qualifies?

Oh, I forgot, he doesn''t kiss Delia''s arse like Gunn does!

[/quote]

So much for well thought through and reasoned responses!

[The Chirp 0]

you really are a piece of work Wiz.. one of a kind... I commend you. I think, (for the little it''s worth) we have no money, no manager with a track record and experience will want to manage us... Gunn like it or lump it is our only true option. I think we should give him the chance... if/when we get new investment this can be looked at... if Gunny is doing well... keep him, if not... we''ll have the money to get someone in. - At the mo there is barely any money available for new players... if we go hunting for a new manager, it''ll likely mean more backroom staff... and then a lot less money to spend on players. People don''t seem to think about this on here. Where will the money come from to get someone else... And who is to say someone else will do any better? I say stick... and twist if things are going pear-shaped in december.

[a1canary 0]

I can''t disagree with that - does anyone think Roeder will work again outside of Sunday league management?!

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="a1canary"]Football management is 70% man management. All the best manager''s are great man managers. I think Gunn is good at it too. The rest, on the tactical side, Crook and Butterworth should deal with. Trouble is, i suppose he is the manager and makes the decisions in regard to tactics. In the past, the number 2s appear in reality to have had little say when it came to the crunch on who to play and how to play them.[/quote]The problem with that statement is that Gunn appeared to be incapable of motivating the team, so where''s the evidence that he''s a great man manager. The evidence is certainly there that his tactical ability is questionable. We can''t afford to gamble while he learns the ropes. Get someone in who knows league 1 already.

[a1canary 0]

...oops, that was meant to quote Jim Smith''s response to Salopian.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="SPat"][quote user="a1canary"]Football management is 70% man management. All the best manager''s are great man managers. I think Gunn is good at it too. The rest, on the tactical side, Crook and Butterworth should deal with. Trouble is, i suppose he is the manager and makes the decisions in regard to tactics. In the past, the number 2s appear in reality to have had little say when it came to the crunch on who to play and how to play them.[/quote]

The problem with that statement is that Gunn appeared to be incapable of motivating the team, so where''s the evidence that he''s a great man manager. The evidence is certainly there that his tactical ability is questionable. We can''t afford to gamble while he learns the ropes. Get someone in who knows league 1 already.
[/quote]

Agreed Spat - i''ve been thrashing out my own thoughts on the whole topic in this post, and have reached the same conclusion in my subsequent post that begins "Thanks to everyone... etc".

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="The Chirp"]you really are a piece of work Wiz.. one of a kind... I commend you.

I think, (for the little it''s worth) we have no money, no manager with a track record and experience will want to manage us... Gunn like it or lump it is our only true option.

I think we should give him the chance... if/when we get new investment this can be looked at... if Gunny is doing well... keep him, if not... we''ll have the money to get someone in. - At the mo there is barely any money available for new players... if we go hunting for a new manager, it''ll likely mean more backroom staff... and then a lot less money to spend on players.

People don''t seem to think about this on here. Where will the money come from to get someone else... And who is to say someone else will do any better?

I say stick... and twist if things are going pear-shaped in december.


[/quote]

By that time Chirp, we''ll be relegated...........again!

[The Chirp 0]

i don''t think so Wiz :-)

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="The Chirp"]you really are a piece of work Wiz.. one of a kind... I commend you.

I think, (for the little it''s worth) we have no money, no manager with a track record and experience will want to manage us... Gunn like it or lump it is our only true option.

I think we should give him the chance... if/when we get new investment this can be looked at... if Gunny is doing well... keep him, if not... we''ll have the money to get someone in. - At the mo there is barely any money available for new players... if we go hunting for a new manager, it''ll likely mean more backroom staff... and then a lot less money to spend on players.

People don''t seem to think about this on here. Where will the money come from to get someone else... And who is to say someone else will do any better?

I say stick... and twist if things are going pear-shaped in december.


[/quote]

Other than having to pay a bit of compensation why will it cost us any more to have a new manager than it will to keep on Gunn, Butterworth and Crook. We should have to pay them any comp for getting rid of them unless we were stupid enough to give them contracts beyond the end of the season. I can''t believe that Jim Gannon, Mark Robins or Steve Tilson are being paid more than Gunn was for the last 3 months in their current job!

[kdncfc 0]

No, the team failed to turn up on far to many occasions under his management. The players weren''t good enough but the lack of passion they portrayed in must win games against Sheffield Wednesday and Ipswich was simply not good enough, they should have been prepared to fight tooth and nail but were sadly found wanting and that must reflect partly on the person responsible for motivating them. He also didn''t seem to have a clue when to make changes and his team selections left much to be desired.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="The Chirp"]you really are a piece of work Wiz.. one of a kind... I commend you.

I think, (for the little it''s worth) we have no money, no manager with a track record and experience will want to manage us... Gunn like it or lump it is our only true option.

I think we should give him the chance... if/when we get new investment this can be looked at... if Gunny is doing well... keep him, if not... we''ll have the money to get someone in. - At the mo there is barely any money available for new players... if we go hunting for a new manager, it''ll likely mean more backroom staff... and then a lot less money to spend on players.

People don''t seem to think about this on here. Where will the money come from to get someone else... And who is to say someone else will do any better?

I say stick... and twist if things are going pear-shaped in december.


[/quote]

 

Other than having to pay a bit of compensation why will it cost us any more to have a new manager than it will to keep on Gunn, Butterworth and Crook. We should have to pay them any comp for getting rid of them unless we were stupid enough to give them contracts beyond the end of the season. I can''t believe that Jim Gannon, Mark Robins or Steve Tilson are being paid more than Gunn was for the last 3 months in their current job!

[/quote]

 

Sorry that should say "should not" have to pay any compo to Gunn, butterworth and Crook!

[Big Duncs Bloody Shirt 0]

[quote user="a1canary"]When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop. But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect. Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football? And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now? Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?[/quote]

I certainly agree with your comment about Rodent ... can just see him now explaining to anyone who''ll listen how, given time, he would have turned things around here, and how on earth did we expect an ex-goalkeeper/ambassador/commercial manager to realistically save us! However, I believe that given Gunny''s background (after all, he only rejoined the football side of the club within the last 2/3 years) to ask him to dig us out of the hole we were in was seriously flawed. Given the ''tools'' at his disposal I seriously doubt if a combination of Ferguson/Wenger/Mourinho would have done much better but, even so, a relegation battle requires every ounce of experience and knowledge that one can muster. Sadly, poor old Gunny fell a little short on both counts and the requirements for surviving in division one I guess are very similar For that reason I feel this mob in charge should thanks Gunny for a sterling effort, reappoint him to a job ''upstairs'', but then look to appoint someone who knows the ropes when it comes to lower league success. 

[gazzathegreat 0]

A1, sorry in delay in replying, there are too many threads to go through.

You asked if I support the reappointment of Gunn and his team?

No and for the reasons below:

Gunn was already at NCFC, so easily available, too easily available and just fell into the job. For my money he was used as a shield by the board, who on earth would sound off re an appointment of a city legend?

He took the job on because he loves the club, and I don''t knock him for that, but what was he thinking. Considering the likely outcome, did he really have confidence in his, and his team''s ability to save us from relegation.

I question his ability to motivate the team, we are used to capitulation on special occasions, but were the team properly prepared for the final few games?

Also, the players brought in, while some have worked out, as a team they haven''t really played well. There are still notably a certain few who don''t pull their weight. We also still have a discipline problem with Russell and no natural leader on the pitch, which for me was on of the biggest contributing factors to our eventual fate.

Tactics at time were bizarre as were substitutions and playing two wingers on the opposite side of the pitch to their natural leanings. Lee was a great acquisition for his toughness upfront, but he never really found a partner he could play with to any great effect. Mooney and Gow were good for a couple of matches, but both blew hot and cold. Midfield, though mostly our own players were uncreative (once Wes Hoolahan was injured) and this was never addressed. Shackell coming back IMO was his greatest move - he has grown as a player and his re emergence at the heart of defence must be congratulated, sadly he''s no full back.

It''s not Gunn''s fault the board have manipulated him, but he has really to think now what''s best for NCFC and turn down any offer to carry on, likewise his colleagues.

We need a proven manager at this level, I would go for Mark Robins (would have liked him before now) or Steve Tilson. I am sure there are others, maybe even lower down the leagues who have passion for improvement, can pick a good captain and motivate the team, who is wise and knowledgeable in the transfer market and can stand up to the board when discussing transfer targets/budgets. Above all he must instill a winning mentality into the squad and staff around him.

Quite a wish list, but one the directors have to work with. Time to stop this small time thinking and hoping for the best.

Probably missed some obvious points out, but that''s it for now!

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="a1canary"]When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop. But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect. Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football? And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now? Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?[/quote]

 

Hi A1,  v flattered to be in such esteemed company.  Like Gazza I lost this post in the genral high volume low flying chaff on the board;  I simply cant post that often!   However my views are there to be seen. 

For me no one can doubt Gunns passion for the club - his is committed to the club and talks well.  They are his strengths and as you point out it should have been the motivational side too.  However he has not had the effect on the sides performances which have lacked even a tenth of his own committment and this was never more highlighted than in the last two games of the season where we went out with a wimper,  on the side as well as on the pitch too.

Blahblahblahs summary is perfect for me,  with his inexperience showing that board had not learnt from the Grant fiasco,  with the latter being a far better candidate from every aspect.

[quote user="blahblahblah"]I''ll try to sum up what most seem to be thinking about this :

• In the matches Team Gunn had, they weren''t able to set teams or change teams to win enough matches.  Gow, who had been promising up front, looked lost on the wing.  More observant people will probably have 3 or 4 other examples of bad tactics.
  

• League 1 is a different country, which needs a different type of manager with experience of the league.  We could have our pick of the best available managers at this level with the budget that should be available to us.
  

• We can''t afford to have someone learning the culture of the league, as well as the job of managing the club.  Much easier to bring someone in to learn the culture of our club, who knows their way around league 1.

• We don''t want to be in league 1 for any longer than necessary. Experimenting with Gunn could lead that to happen - replacing a manager because we''re mid-table at xmas would lead to a play-off spot at best by May.  We can''t take that risk, surely.
  

[/quote]

 

My preference would be robin,  ambitious,  young,  point to prove,  bigger club and higher profile in the next league up but used to working ona very tight budget but knows the lower leagues.  

[Mello Yello 2,282]

Melissa? Delia, Donkster and Micky Wynn?

Bryan is a top bloke - but unfortunately, not a manager/coach tactician. I concur with those who suggest and state their reasons for not supporting the reappointment of him as manager....

I would like him to remain at the club in some capacity.

Not overly bothered about Crook, Butterworth or Deehan....

 

[Matthew Quinn 0]

I posted this before he had been appointed

"I would be devastated if we appoint a manager with no experience like Gunn. Management is about so much more than understanding or loving the club as of course Gunn,Hucks and Iwan all do. nor is it good enough to say gunn inspired the players for the Barnsley game. Most of that can can be down to the players being happy to be free from Roeder''s management! In the long term we want a manger who can pick the right team, pick the right tactics, buy the right players, as well as be a good man maager. Gunn may have those abillities but we have no proof that he does, because he hasn''t managed before. Appointing him would be a massive risk. From the rest of your list I would take Bothroyd or Ince as manager though I concede there is no stand out candidate."     We now have the proof .Gunn cannot pick the right team he can''t pick the right tactics and he isn''t a good enough man manager to motivate the players for one of the biggest games in our recent history! Of course the players, Roeder and the board  are all also to blame to differing extents, but gunn had 19 matches and he won 5. That''s not good enough. He himself said he was responsible for our relegation! Can he improve as a manager? maybe. The problem is we are simply not in a position to appoint managers who are still learing their trade. Please, please, board this time appoint someone who has experience of winning promotion form the lower leagues. I beg you

 

 

 

 

 

[canaryschmidt 0]

[quote user="Matthew Quinn"]

I posted this before he had been appointed

"I would be devastated if we appoint a manager with no experience like Gunn. Management is about so much more than understanding or loving the club as of course Gunn,Hucks and Iwan all do. nor is it good enough to say gunn inspired the players for the Barnsley game. Most of that can can be down to the players being happy to be free from Roeder''s management! In the long term we want a manger who can pick the right team, pick the right tactics, buy the right players, as well as be a good man maager. Gunn may have those abillities but we have no proof that he does, because he hasn''t managed before. Appointing him would be a massive risk. From the rest of your list I would take Bothroyd or Ince as manager though I concede there is no stand out candidate."     We now have the proof .Gunn cannot pick the right team he can''t pick the right tactics and he isn''t a good enough man manager to motivate the players for one of the biggest games in our recent history! Of course the players, Roeder and the board  are all also to blame to differing extents, but gunn had 19 matches and he won 5. That''s not good enough. He himself said he was responsible for our relegation! Can he improve as a manager? maybe. The problem is we are simply not in a position to appoint managers who are still learing their trade. Please, please, board this time appoint someone who has experience of winning promotion form the lower leagues. I beg you

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

[JF 694]

[quote user="The Chirp"]you really are a piece of work Wiz.. one of a kind... I commend you.

I think, (for the little it''s worth) we have no money, no manager with a track record and experience will want to manage us... Gunn like it or lump it is our only true option.

I think we should give him the chance... if/when we get new investment this can be looked at... if Gunny is doing well... keep him, if not... we''ll have the money to get someone in. - At the mo there is barely any money available for new players... if we go hunting for a new manager, it''ll likely mean more backroom staff... and then a lot less money to spend on players.

People don''t seem to think about this on here. Where will the money come from to get someone else... And who is to say someone else will do any better?

I say stick... and twist if things are going pear-shaped in december.


[/quote]  100 per cent agree with this post.

[charlies dad 0]

If Gunn is imposed on us against our wishes, you may as well light the blue touch paper. Patience is at zero level, one slip and there will be an extremely angry response.  I wont support Gunn as manager. He will fail.