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a1canary

Does anyone support the reappointment of Gunn?

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When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop.

But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect.

Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football?

And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now?

Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?

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Gunn hasn''t got a clue what he''s doing. He showed this by playing our best central defender (shackell) left back against Charltons quick right winger. Not playing Cody who in the game previous against Reading looked our best attacker and at least has some pace. These were the easiest decisions a manager has to make and he got it totally wrong. Other games he has had no plan b and when the game is crying out for a substitution Gunn doesn''t make it. We all know Gunn will carry on as manager because the board are completely inept and this saga will continue for years to come. I don''t care about the Norwich City connections it means nothing. Gunn should walk away and be big enough to know he is not a manager or at least not good enough for N.C.F.C. He should start somewhere as assistant manager and learn his trade that way before stepping up to the post as manager. I don''t know many people who want to see Gunn as manager of the club and if they do then they can''t see whats happening before their very eyes.

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I''ll try to sum up what most seem to be thinking about this :
  • In the matches Team Gunn had, they weren''t able to set teams or change teams to win enough matches.  Gow, who had been promising up front, looked lost on the wing.  More observant people will probably have 3 or 4 other examples of bad tactics.
  • League 1 is a different country, which needs a different type of manager with experience of the league.  We could have our pick of the best available managers at this level with the budget that should be available to us.
  • We can''t afford to have someone learning the culture of the league, as well as the job of managing the club.  Much easier to bring someone in to learn the culture of our club, who knows their way around league 1.
  • We don''t want to be in league 1 for any longer than necessary. Experimenting with Gunn could lead that to happen - replacing a manager because we''re mid-table at xmas would lead to a play-off spot at best by May.  We can''t take that risk, surely.

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Football management is 70% man management. All the best manager''s are great man managers. I think Gunn is good at it too. The rest, on the tactical side, Crook and Butterworth should deal with. Trouble is, i suppose he is the manager and makes the decisions in regard to tactics. In the past, the number 2s appear in reality to have had little say when it came to the crunch on who to play and how to play them.

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[quote user="a1canary"]When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop. But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect. Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football? And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now? Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?[/quote]

 

In answer to the title question:

Yes.  I''m prepared to give him a 3 /4 months next season.

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I don''t see why Gunn can''t just leave this club alone. Get a job at Norwich Union or something. Or if he wants to remain close to the club then get a job on the check out at Morrisons.

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[quote user="a1canary"]When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop. But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect. Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football? And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now? Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?[/quote]

 

im undecided! i was really against his appointment and he has hardly filled me with confidence, we were actually in a better position then when he took charge, although with roeder i think we would have been relegated long before the last game of the season so to say we got worse after gunns appoinment is debatable.

the club really needs stabillity but with the current regime this is never going to happen so im very uncomfortable with them making the decision on whether or not to appoint gunn. ideally we would have a new board in place soon who can then decide unfortunatley this is probally not going to happen.

the other factor to consider is who else is actually going to want to manage norwich? we have no money, no players and  25000 angry fans who expect instant success, so maybe gunn is the only option?!

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No, i do not support him be reappointed

We need an experienced manager to give us a fighting chnace of returning next season

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[quote user="canaryspike7"]I don''t see why Gunn can''t just leave this club alone. Get a job at Norwich Union or something. Or if he wants to remain close to the club then get a job on the check out at Morrisons.[/quote]

What? work for a living?...discraceful!

And no, I don''t want him, or his daughter, within a mile of our club.

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We need somebody who knows League 1 like the back of their hand. Gunn, top bloke as I keep saying and I commend him for trying to keep us up. Actually, I think he kept us in the running for survival longer than Roder could after he''d lost the players. But that was then and this is now, and this is no time to gamble. Gunn''s lack of experience is a huge factor and I just don''t think we should risk keeping him on at this point. We as a club are at quite a low point what with our seemingly out of control financial situation and our recent relegation. Gunn has no money to spend and bringing in the likes of Carney and Killen will not help this club one bit. We need someone with an eye for talent and somebody who can at least give us a 90% chance of getting us in the top 6 of the division. Gannon has just released by Stockport, he''d be an excellent option and if he''d be willing to take the job we should certainly give it to him. Failing that a Tilson or a Robins who both have good records of late. Sorry Gunny.

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[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="canaryspike7"]I don''t see why Gunn can''t just leave this club alone. Get a job at Norwich Union or something. Or if he wants to remain close to the club then get a job on the check out at Morrisons.[/quote]

What? work for a living?...discraceful!

And no, I don''t want him, or his daughter, within a mile of our club.

[/quote] Spot on , go get a proper job Gunn and let Norwich City have a proper manager.

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How is this for a radical idea.  Most posters have doubts about Gunn''s ability as a manager.  Most posters also feel that a football person on the Board would improve decision making and accountability.

Everyone except Wiz respects Gunn''s commitment to the Club and his man management skills do seem good.  He also has a lot of commercial experience on the business side of the Club.

So, promote him to the Board.  Let him use his skills there and get a more suitable manager.

Best of all worlds perhaps?

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]

How is this for a radical idea.  Most posters have doubts about Gunn''s ability as a manager.  Most posters also feel that a football person on the Board would improve decision making and accountability.

Everyone except Wiz respects Gunn''s commitment to the Club and his man management skills do seem good.  He also has a lot of commercial experience on the business side of the Club.

So, promote him to the Board.  Let him use his skills there and get a more suitable manager.

Best of all worlds perhaps?

[/quote]

What? like at the scum and Charlton surrenders you mean? And the thought of the biggest freeloader at the club on the board is terrifying!

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I think people are rightfully concerned about the chances of Gunn getting the job, apart from being "a club legend" he has no possible criteria for being the man we need.

In my opinion being "a club legend" isn''t enough. Teams the length and breadth of the country have made this error time and time again - google Brian Tinnion as Bristol City manager as one example.

We need someone with clear expertise, Ok Gunn has offered his services but the board should have the guts to say no.

Some people would blindly support Gunn even if we got relegated next season purely on the strength of what he did as a player for us.

The board need to wake up!

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[quote user="First Wizard"]And no, I don''t want him, or his daughter, within a mile of our club.[/quote]If they appoint him and he wins the first three games, you''ll be changing your name back to "G-Wiz" in his honour just as you did with Glenn Roeder![;)]

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I think Gunn should probably go-my problem is that I do not trust the board to make the right appointment and they are quite capable of making things even worse. I remember being astonished and pleased that Roedder was sacked in a decisive move but that optimism vanished within hours as the answer appeared to be Worthy!

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[quote user="a1canary"]When everything goes to completely to sh*t at NCFC, such as during our prem season and in the final months of the Worthy era, i tend to stay away from here. So i''ve only briefly scanned the boards in the last few weeks when it has been pretty clear we were for the drop. But from what i''ve looked at I haven''t seen or heard much from the long established posters who''s views i respect. Nutty, Trent, Branston, Fat Barman, Gazza, Angel, Tumbleweed, Zipper... there are plenty of others. Do you support the reappointment of Gunn and his team? Looking on here it seems most have already made their mind up pretty quickly. I haven''t yet. Every time we''ve changed managers it hasn''t worked. Gunn has taken us down, should he and team be given the opportunity to right their wrongs? In business, if you mess up, you learn from it and put it right. Can that apply in football? And the one thing that bothers me a little is that he and crook and butterworth care about the club in a way that another manager without their connections to NCFC could never do. Do we want to lose that and end up with a Roeder, who is probably laughing right now? Like i say, i haven''t made my mind up, but isn''t anyone even thinking along these lines?[/quote]

 

No room for debate here, Nice man Great keeper Crap manager, shove him back in press room  

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I''m against the appointment of Guuny a1. He has done some things well so it may seem unfair to some but he has failed in areas where I felt he could have done better.

Our goalkeeper is undoubtedly talented but his confidence and performance has not improved under Gunn.

The back four began to look more settled, he made a good move in bringing Shackell back to partner Doc, but then totally lost the plot with the changes he made at Charlton on Sunday. It then took him ''til we were 0-3 to recognise his mistake.

The midfield has been worse under Gunn. He has been unlucky through injury but he had other players at the club but chose not to use them. I am specifically talking about Fotheringham here. Yes there was a problem between Fotheringham and the fans but we needed a performing Fozzy towards the end of the season. It''s a managers job to get the best out of the players available to them not to just wash their hands of them. To a lesser extent Pattison is another he chose to discard. A central midfield pairing of Clingan and Russell clearly wasn''t good enough.

His best achievement was at long last giving us options up front. Had we had Lee, McDonald, Gow and Mooney from the start of the season we could well have got enough points to survive.

If he stays and proves me wrong I''ll gladly hold my hands up and admit I''m wrong because I really like the guy. But overall I''m afraid I believe he was a failure and needs to go.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m against the appointment of Guuny a1. He has done some things well so it may seem unfair to some but he has failed in areas where I felt he could have done better.

Our goalkeeper is undoubtedly talented but his confidence and performance has not improved under Gunn.

The back four began to look more settled, he made a good move in bringing Shackell back to partner Doc, but then totally lost the plot with the changes he made at Charlton on Sunday. It then took him ''til we were 0-3 to recognise his mistake.

The midfield has been worse under Gunn. He has been unlucky through injury but he had other players at the club but chose not to use them. I am specifically talking about Fotheringham here. Yes there was a problem between Fotheringham and the fans but we needed a performing Fozzy towards the end of the season. It''s a managers job to get the best out of the players available to them not to just wash their hands of them. To a lesser extent Pattison is another he chose to discard. A central midfield pairing of Clingan and Russell clearly wasn''t good enough.

His best achievement was at long last giving us options up front. Had we had Lee, McDonald, Gow and Mooney from the start of the season we could well have got enough points to survive.

If he stays and proves me wrong I''ll gladly hold my hands up and admit I''m wrong because I really like the guy. But overall I''m afraid I believe he was a failure and needs to go.

 

[/quote]

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I''ll say this, that in the absence of lots of money he is probably as good as anyone. They only ones we could get otherwise would be those who have failed elsewhere. No-one with experience and success will come to such a dire situation. I think that Hux is right, - we need some considerable cash injection. We have not survived very well on loan players!Why did we have such a poor run over the final matches? Was it Gunn''s fault, a failure to motivate? Why could we be soo good against some teams, and poor against others? Why when our defence had improved so much after Shackle returned did it suddenly leak horribly? The loss of Hoolahan could well have made much difference creatively.If I knew the answer to these questions, I might be able to decide one way or the other on Gunn.I will say this in his defence. He inherited a poor squad with no effective strikers,  with little money to spend and only a few days to fix up still more loans. We may yet discover how good he would be with his own squad, reasonable luck with injuries, and a full season.On his technical nous, it has to be said that some selections were puzzling, and some substitutions equally, but we don''t know what the management team saw and tried in training. He certainly decided early that Cureton would not score enough goals and Patti and Fozzy had attitude problems. He saw the potential of Cody and the lack of it of Eagles.If we can sign two strapping fullbacks and one no-nonses central defender, then our need sadly is not to play dazzling attractive football but to grind out results week by week until the team and club can be re-built. Perhaps he could do that?

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A place on the (new!) Board for Gunny would be perfect for him.Liason between the business side of the club and the footballing side, more of a PR role, but certainly a useful one in bringing that side of things to the boardroom.Like others, any one of Gannon, Robins, even a tilt at Bothroyd would fit the bill, Manager wise. With Deehan in charge of the Academy and Player Scouting/Recruitment.The thing is, I think we need to appoint the right Manager and have the balls (board and fans!) to say "you''ve got three years. Get this club sorted, its yours to do. And you WILL have that time, no matter what." Is that a wise strategy?

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[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]Good point well made Wiz but his general avuncular skills do seem to have respect.[/quote]

Not with me CC.

Why not employ my favourite legend Flecky, or find a backroom job for life for Mike Walker? he lost his dear wife whilst manager at City, surly he qualifies?

Oh, I forgot, he doesn''t kiss Delia''s arse like Gunn does!

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Thanks to everyone who has replied to this - i''m heartened by the level headed and well thought through responses. I was expecting a barrage of angry unreasoned replies.

You''ve made my mind up - he does have to go. I do have some time for the board''s argument for having someone who knows NCFC and its traditions, and i was hesitating about throwing out someone who is so clearly determined to restore some pride to the club he and we love. But if he''s not equipped to do that, then i guess how much he loves the club is irrelevant. I said he''s a good man manager but that means getting the best out of players and he didn''t do that. Our full backs in particular seem to have disappeared completely in the last few weeks.

So fo me, there really is only one choice. If he wants the job.

And that''s Mark Robins. He knows the league, has the experience and the track record, and has the obvious connections. I would like him to keep Butterworth and Crook, but i imagine he''d want his own people.

The Sky Sports story was interesting - does anyone else think that was leaked from inside in order to test the water for a Gunn reappointment?

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[quote]I''ll say this, that in the absence of lots of money he is probably as

good as anyone. They only ones we could get otherwise would be those

who have failed elsewhere. No-one with experience and success will come

to such a dire situation. I think that Hux is right, - we need some

considerable cash injection. We have not survived very well on loan

players![/quote]All the more important to get the right man.  You can save millions if you get a manager in who knows the lower leagues can recognise talent and nurture it.

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[quote user="Salopian"]I''ll say this, that in the absence of lots of money he is probably as good as anyone. They only ones we could get otherwise would be those who have failed elsewhere. No-one with experience and success will come to such a dire situation. I think that Hux is right, - we need some considerable cash injection. We have not survived very well on loan players!

Why did we have such a poor run over the final matches? Was it Gunn''s fault, a failure to motivate? Why could we be soo good against some teams, and poor against others? Why when our defence had improved so much after Shackle returned did it suddenly leak horribly? The loss of Hoolahan could well have made much difference creatively.

If I knew the answer to these questions, I might be able to decide one way or the other on Gunn.

I will say this in his defence. He inherited a poor squad with no effective strikers,  with little money to spend and only a few days to fix up still more loans. We may yet discover how good he would be with his own squad, reasonable luck with injuries, and a full season.

On his technical nous, it has to be said that some selections were puzzling, and some substitutions equally, but we don''t know what the management team saw and tried in training. He certainly decided early that Cureton would not score enough goals and Patti and Fozzy had attitude problems. He saw the potential of Cody and the lack of it of Eagles.

If we can sign two strapping fullbacks and one no-nonses central defender, then our need sadly is not to play dazzling attractive football but to grind out results week by week until the team and club can be re-built. Perhaps he could do that?
[/quote]

 

I don''t agree with your first point. I bet just about every half decent manager currently working in the lower divisions (plus a few others currently out of work) would relish the chance to take on our job. Its the perfect time because we are at such a low ebb it will be difficult for soemone to take us lower. It is arguably more attractive now than it was 3 months ago because any manager taking it on then knew there was a serious danger of having a relegation on their cv. As it is now the man who finally sorts us out will see his star rise very quickly! They should also be able to attract players from the bottom two divisions as at this level we ARE a big club!

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