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 Zak Van Burger

Official Badger Statement

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[quote user="Badger"]

I''m not a badger I''m a mole.

[/quote]I don''t know how you did this but well done!

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Badger is not a badger either. Are you Neil?[/quote] Is that who he is , must say i have felt for a long time he is somebody connected to the club .

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What confuses me most is that on the day Badger joined this forum (11/07/2008) this post was made by a poster called erm.... Badger. Link Then the new Badger appears to have usurped the old Badger.Which does kind of throw doubt upon Badgers claim in this thread that he doesn''t know how its done.

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[quote user="Buckethead"]What confuses me most is that on the day Badger joined this forum (11/07/2008) this post was made by a poster called erm.... Badger. Link Then the new Badger appears to have usurped the old Badger.Which does kind of throw doubt upon Badgers claim in this thread that he doesn''t know how its done.

[/quote]So there are three of us now! I didn''t it was possible.

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[quote user="Buckethead"]What confuses me most is that on the day Badger joined this forum (11/07/2008) this post was made by a poster called erm.... Badger. Link Then the new Badger appears to have usurped the old Badger.Which does kind of throw doubt upon Badgers claim in this thread that he doesn''t know how its done.[/quote]So there are three of us now! I didn''t think  it was possible.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Badger is not a badger either. Are you Neil?[/quote]Aaah, I remember the good old days when I used to be Neil Doncaster.  But now the mantle has passed to the new generation - bless ''em.

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[quote user="Evil Monkey"]I was Neil once, for about a day.  It wasn''t a good day.....[/quote]Of course, if you believe good old Mello, we''re all a bit Neil in our own special ways...

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Yeah and I am just a sad deluded conspiracy theorist. How do you think the five staff in the club''s PR dept fill their day?

BlahBlahBlah - there is a big difference between being a devil''s advocate and someone who comes on here at the point when the Board are being almost unanimously derided and tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job. This is much more than trying to give a balance to a discussion. Hands up from anyone that is not diretcly connected with the club that really believes the Board have done a good job?

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Evil Monkey"]I was Neil once, for about a day.  It wasn''t a good day.....
[/quote]
Of course, if you believe good old Mello, we''re all a bit Neil in our own special ways...
[/quote]

You supported the board and whistled their tune, didn''t you. So therefore you''re a Neil.......a sorta ''Mini Me'' Neil.

What''s your opinion of the CE and the Board now Bleurgh, aka ''Mini Me'' Neil?

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[quote]What''s your opinion of the CE and the Board now Bleurgh, aka ''Mini Me'' Neil?[/quote]I think they are hard to remove, and in need of guidance, that''s been obvious since Grant.  I also think that calling for heads won''t achieve anything unless you look at which heads will replace those that could roll to satisfy the public.  If you replace Dr Evil with Dr Evil Mk II, all you end up with is a sequel to Austin Powers.  And nobody wants another sequel to Austin Powers, do they ?Did that poor kid really deserve to end up here ?

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Yeah and I am just a sad deluded conspiracy theorist. How do you think the five staff in the club''s PR dept fill their day?[/quote]

I would hope that they are doing their jobs.  Mind you, I''m not... Maybe you have a point !!! [;)]

[quote]BlahBlahBlah - there is a big difference between being a devil''s advocate and someone who comes on here at the point when the Board are being almost unanimously derided and tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job. This is much more than trying to give a balance to a discussion. Hands up from anyone that is not diretcly connected with the club that really believes the Board have done a good job?

[/quote]You could just as easily claim the same from negative posters though - generally the agendas and overprotection of ideas shine through their posts.  That''s the "beauty" of anonymity.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]What''s your opinion of the CE and the Board now Bleurgh, aka ''Mini Me'' Neil?[/quote]

I think they are hard to remove, and in need of guidance, that''s been obvious since Grant.  I also think that calling for heads won''t achieve anything unless you look at which heads will replace those that could roll to satisfy the public.  If you replace Dr Evil with Dr Evil Mk II, all you end up with is a sequel to Austin Powers.  And nobody wants another sequel to Austin Powers, do they ?

Did that poor kid really deserve to end up here ?
[/quote]

So, hard to remove, and in need of guidance?

In need of guidance - on how to remove themselves?......

I think some ''Dr Evil'' (according to the Delialikes) is waiting to guide them on how to remove themselves.....without them losing too much face...

Oh, And the kid - is called Billy....

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]What''s your opinion of the CE and the Board now Bleurgh, aka ''Mini Me'' Neil?[/quote]I think they are hard to remove, and in need of guidance, that''s been obvious since Grant.  I also think that calling for heads won''t achieve anything unless you look at which heads will replace those that could roll to satisfy the public.  If you replace Dr Evil with Dr Evil Mk II, all you end up with is a sequel to Austin Powers.  And nobody wants another sequel to Austin Powers, do they ?Did that poor kid really deserve to end up here ?[/quote]

So, hard to remove, and in need of guidance?

In need of guidance - on how to remove themselves?......

I think some ''Dr Evil'' (according to the Delialikes) is waiting to guide them on how to remove themselves.....without them losing too much face...

Oh, And the kid - is called Billy....

[/quote]If they aren''t going anywhere, better to help them get to where they need to be than to thrown bricks through their windows, don''t you think ?  Oh and are you ok there Mello ?  Only you came over a bit Tilly there for a moment.

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BlahBlahBlah,

Yes I agree that posters who have consistently been negative about the Board may have an agenda - otherwise why post? Even so, I struggle to find a motive, other than the logical oppoiste which is that they are plants of Cullum or another investor seeking to destabilise opinion against the Board. I personally believe this is unlikley and that sustainted frustration and incredulity are more likley rationales.

However, I would suggest that at this time the default position of most fans is negative and that anyone who has the front to come on here and claim the Board are doing a good job and it is simply the Managers fault (step forward Badger and your sidekick Tom Cavendish) stick out like a sore thumb. Cavendish is obviously not Doomy as he does not appear that bright, but Badger''s prose smacks of a frustrated lawyer to me - appears clever, but no real susbstance to his arguments.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]What''s your opinion of the CE and the Board now Bleurgh, aka ''Mini Me'' Neil?[/quote]

I think they are hard to remove, and in need of guidance, that''s been obvious since Grant.  I also think that calling for heads won''t achieve anything unless you look at which heads will replace those that could roll to satisfy the public.  If you replace Dr Evil with Dr Evil Mk II, all you end up with is a sequel to Austin Powers.  And nobody wants another sequel to Austin Powers, do they ?

Did that poor kid really deserve to end up here ?
[/quote]

So, hard to remove, and in need of guidance?

In need of guidance - on how to remove themselves?......

I think some ''Dr Evil'' (according to the Delialikes) is waiting to guide them on how to remove themselves.....without them losing too much face...

Oh, And the kid - is called Billy....

[/quote]

If they aren''t going anywhere, better to help them get to where they need to be than to thrown bricks through their windows, don''t you think ? 

Oh and are you ok there Mello ?  Only you came over a bit Tilly there for a moment.
[/quote]

Only idiots resort to violence...

I do think the NCISA are hoping to assist and guide those who definitely need removing. By having the St Andrew''s ''Masseeve''!

Will you be blingin'' up an'' donnin'' yer burberry - an'' stridin'' down there?

"Throw me a fricken bone here!"

Me Tilly?......Never heard owt so silly!

Checks of folks ip addresses will confirm, that I is not he......Ask the mods if you''re concerned?

 

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Yeah and I am just a sad deluded conspiracy theorist. How do you think the five staff in the club''s PR dept fill their day?

BlahBlahBlah - there is a big difference between being a devil''s advocate and someone who comes on here at the point when the Board are being almost unanimously derided and tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job. This is much more than trying to give a balance to a discussion. Hands up from anyone that is not diretcly connected with the club that really believes the Board have done a good job?

[/quote]I don''t really mind you calling me Neil if it entertains you but I would prefer it if you didn''t misrepresent what I have said. At no point have I said the board is doing "a really good job," or anything similar. What I have tried to do though is to highlight some of the more misleading and offensive claims that your fellow travellers (if not you yourself) have made.What I find most irritating of all is the claims made by several in here that the vast majority of Norwich fans are either1. Mindless sheep who are foxed by the cunning board into supporting the team2. Passionless sub-fans that don''t really care about the team and only really turn up because there is nothing better to do.This line of attack continues with things like there are too many women, children, old people, middle class people, backward thinking etc. which is why we are so passionless and that ultimately our spinelessness means we get the team we deserve.I don''t think that most fit into either category. They turn up because they care passionately about both the team and the City, they don''t protest because they are not as convinced as you that it will necessarily make things better. The "things can only get better line" has been tried before - for example during the Worthington Out campaign - and without going into the particular merits of this ex-manager, I would judge that this has not proven to be the case.I have made the (I think) quite reasonable point that if you are trying to win people over to your views calling them mugs and worse is not helpful. Part of the problem is that they have not really won the intellectual case that they have a better alternative to that which currently exists.Clearly the board has failed on the football side - the league table does not lie - we are in the third division for the first time in my life. Something needs to change. The way forward to improvement is not, however, a matter of certainty. In simple terms, we "don''t want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire."Neil -oops sorry, Badger

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Yeah and I am just a sad deluded conspiracy theorist. How do you think the five staff in the club''s PR dept fill their day?

BlahBlahBlah - there is a big difference between being a devil''s advocate and someone who comes on here at the point when the Board are being almost unanimously derided and tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job. This is much more than trying to give a balance to a discussion. Hands up from anyone that is not diretcly connected with the club that really believes the Board have done a good job?

[/quote]

I don''t really mind you calling me Neil if it entertains you but I would prefer it if you didn''t misrepresent what I have said. At no point have I said the board is doing "a really good job," or anything similar. What I have tried to do though is to highlight some of the more misleading and offensive claims that your fellow travellers (if not you yourself) have made.

What I find most irritating of all is the claims made by several in here that the vast majority of Norwich fans are either

1. Mindless sheep who are foxed by the cunning board into supporting the team

2. Passionless sub-fans that don''t really care about the team and only really turn up because there is nothing better to do.

This line of attack continues with things like there are too many women, children, old people, middle class people, backward thinking etc. which is why we are so passionless and that ultimately our spinelessness means we get the team we deserve.

I don''t think that most fit into either category. They turn up because they care passionately about both the team and the City, they don''t protest because they are not as convinced as you that it will necessarily make things better. The "things can only get better line" has been tried before - for example during the Worthington Out campaign - and without going into the particular merits of this ex-manager, I would judge that this has not proven to be the case.

I have made the (I think) quite reasonable point that if you are trying to win people over to your views calling them mugs and worse is not helpful. Part of the problem is that they have not really won the intellectual case that they have a better alternative to that which currently exists.

Clearly the board has failed on the football side - the league table does not lie - we are in the third division for the first time in my life. Something needs to change. The way forward to improvement is not, however, a matter of certainty. In simple terms, we "don''t want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire."

Neil -oops sorry, Badger
[/quote]

Badger,

I am not interested in most of your post as it does not relate to anything I have engaged in or frankly care to comment upon.

However, was it not you who siaad yesterday on the "most unpopular post" (page 7) thread that:

I think that Tom has made a valid point about the boards off the field activities and don''t think that it is fair that it should be so heavily criticised. I think that the board have done a good job here.

 

I am not quite sure how I have misrepresented you and no I am not interested in debating with you whether this was taken out of context.

 

By the way, whether you are Doomy or not will probably never get proved, but your views about our beloved Board are really strange to understand given where we are now. At the end of the day this is all about the football. I would rather stand in the old Barclay and piss in the stinking bogs with no roof on having watched good football than sit in nice facilities with nice pies watching a load of passionless rubbish that we have been subjected to the last four years.

 

You will not change my mind. Our Board is lightweight and clueless.

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[quote user="Badger"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Yeah and I am just a sad deluded conspiracy theorist. How do you think the five staff in the club''s PR dept fill their day?

BlahBlahBlah - there is a big difference between being a devil''s advocate and someone who comes on here at the point when the Board are being almost unanimously derided and tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job. This is much more than trying to give a balance to a discussion. Hands up from anyone that is not diretcly connected with the club that really believes the Board have done a good job?

[/quote]

I don''t really mind you calling me Neil if it entertains you but I would prefer it if you didn''t misrepresent what I have said. At no point have I said the board is doing "a really good job," or anything similar. What I have tried to do though is to highlight some of the more misleading and offensive claims that your fellow travellers (if not you yourself) have made.

What I find most irritating of all is the claims made by several in here that the vast majority of Norwich fans are either

1. Mindless sheep who are foxed by the cunning board into supporting the team

2. Passionless sub-fans that don''t really care about the team and only really turn up because there is nothing better to do.

This line of attack continues with things like there are too many women, children, old people, middle class people, backward thinking etc. which is why we are so passionless and that ultimately our spinelessness means we get the team we deserve.

I don''t think that most fit into either category. They turn up because they care passionately about both the team and the City, they don''t protest because they are not as convinced as you that it will necessarily make things better. The "things can only get better line" has been tried before - for example during the Worthington Out campaign - and without going into the particular merits of this ex-manager, I would judge that this has not proven to be the case.

I have made the (I think) quite reasonable point that if you are trying to win people over to your views calling them mugs and worse is not helpful. Part of the problem is that they have not really won the intellectual case that they have a better alternative to that which currently exists.

Clearly the board has failed on the football side - the league table does not lie - we are in the third division for the first time in my life. Something needs to change. The way forward to improvement is not, however, a matter of certainty. In simple terms, we "don''t want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire."

Neil -oops sorry, Badger
[/quote]

''Clearly the board has failed on the football side''.....

NORWICH CITY ******* CLUB.....Insert whichever word * - one thinks that should be in there. 

But, we should applaud and commend the board, for not having failed in maintaining the ''none core'' aspects of NORWICH CITY ******* CLUB......Insert whichever word * - one thinks that should be in there. (no cheating!)

A football club cannot survive on football alone....but, strangely enough - it''s apparently what the fans turn up for.

 

 

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[quote user="Badger"][This line of attack continues with things like there are too many women, children, old people, middle class people, backward thinking etc. which is why we are so passionless and that ultimately our spinelessness means we get the team we deserve.

I don''t think that most fit into either category. They turn up because they care passionately about both the team and the City, they don''t protest because they are not as convinced as you that it will necessarily make things better. The "things can only get better line" has been tried before - for example during the Worthington Out campaign - and without going into the particular merits of this ex-manager, I would judge that this has not proven to be the case.


[/quote]

Many a time, Badger, I''ve been tremendously proud of what a family, community oriented club Norwich City is. It''s what attracted me to the club in the first place way back in 1989, when I was a ten year old growing up in Middlesex. I don''t doubt there were many others like me: people not local to Norfolk who became fans of a club which, at a time of hooliganism and the long ball, did things so refreshingly differently.

But there''s a simple rule in life. Most things are fine in moderation, but become a problem when taken to excess - and lately, I have started to conclude that it''s possible for a football club to be too community and family oriented. Long before Fulham, I''ve stood at many away games and wondered what on earth fans around me were doing applauding the players off after a dreadful performance: I vividly remember one such occasion after an awful 2-1 defeat at Watford in January 2003. Fans of other clubs simply don''t do this: they demand better. Think about it for a moment: what''s the sense in applauding people for just doing their jobs, and badly at that?

I''m convinced it''s symptomatic of a deeper problem. Whether it''s chicken and egg, I don''t know - but the behaviour of some of the fans justifies the board in being so limp wristed, reactive rather than proactive and unambitious all the time. This will only change if the fans pressure those in charge to do so. I don''t hate any fan of Norwich City: it''s a fantastic club and fantastic city, and that Norwich itself remains so unspoilt and unique is one of its greatest secrets. But I do sometimes despair of how passive the fans can be - because ultimately, we are the custodians and guardians of the club, and it''s up to us to protect it. No matter how much they might protest to the contrary, players, managers and even directors are only ever just passing through.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Badger,I am not interested in most of your post as it does not relate to anything I have engaged in or frankly care to comment upon.However, was it not you who siaad yesterday on the "most unpopular post" (page 7) thread that:I think that Tom has made a valid point about the boards off the field activities and don''t think that it is fair that it should be so heavily criticised. I think that the board have done a good job here.[/quote]Yes it was. I quote in more detail:[quote user="Badger"]“I think Tom has made a good point here, which should be acknowledged not slated by the bully boys on here. Our problems have been on the pitch. The League table does not lie – we are in a lower position than we have been in my lifetime. The board has to take responsibility for that. It does not however, mean that everything that they have done is wrong.” [/quote]Unaccountably you omit the part of the sentence stating that the board has to take responsibility for the lowest ever league table in my lifetime. [quote user="Desert Fox"]I am not quite sure how I have misrepresented you [/quote]Well how about[quote user="Desert Fox"](Badger)… tries to amke out that the Board are doing a really good job.[/quote]When I have said in the same post that you quote from that the board is responsible for putting us in the lowest league position of my lifetime – doesn’t strike me as someone who is claiming that they have done “a really good job.”I am sure that you are not interested enough to bother (and I don’t blame you) but you could find several similar critical comments. I don’t like the bullying tendency of some on here that round on anyone that says anything remotely “off message.” I totally deplore the attempts by some of your fellow travellers to belittle the majority of City fans as stupid and uncaring. (I have pointed this out to you on several occasions and you have made absolutely no attempt to disassociate yourself from these comments).That apparently is sufficient for me to be caricatured as “Neil.” Well so be it, I’ve been called far worse. IMO it says more about you and you ilk that they cannot be bothered to differentiate in any way.

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

''Clearly the board has failed on the football side''.....

NORWICH CITY ******* CLUB.....Insert whichever word * - one thinks that should be in there. 

But, we should applaud and commend the board, for not having failed in maintaining the ''none core'' aspects of NORWICH CITY ******* CLUB......Insert whichever word * - one thinks that should be in there. (no cheating!)

A football club cannot survive on football alone....but, strangely enough - it''s apparently what the fans turn up for.

[/quote]Agreed Mello - as I said - "something needs to change."

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Badger,

This is boring me and probbaly everyone else reading this thread.

You stated that you have never said the Board is doing a good job and that I had misrepresented you. You yourself never qualified this statement.

I quote your verbatim which says that they are doing a good job and you accuse me of what I am qwuite not sure.

Unbelievable!!

I have news for you, your chums are on the slippery slope. They have made plenty of mistakes and most of these are off the pitch.

On that point, good night and I hope the Board appreciate your efforts in cyberspace. Please dont bore me with any replies as I have no intention of getting sucked into petty debates with you.

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[quote user="Desert Fox"]Badger,This is boring me and probbaly everyone else reading this thread.[/quote]Agree with you so far! A good start.[quote user="Desert Fox"]You stated that you have never said the Board is doing a good job and that I had misrepresented you.You yourself never qualified this statement.I quote your verbatim which says that they are doing a good job and you accuse me of what I am qwuite not sure.

Unbelievable!![/quote]What I said is on the record and quoted a few posts above. Please look. If you want clarification, I am happy to provide it. I will stand by what I have said. [quote user="Desert Fox"]I have news for you, your chums are on the slippery slope. They have made plenty of mistakes and most of these are off the pitch.On that point, good night and I hope the Board appreciate your efforts in cyberspace.[/quote]I don''t agree that most of the mistakes are off the pitch. It is on the pitch that most of the problems have been. As a club in the community we are doing ok (short of money perhaps!) - it''s the football that has been the problem! (You might argue, with a degree of logic, that the two are not unconnected.) I know that many disagree with me on this point, but it is my view.[quote user="Desert Fox"]Please dont bore me with any replies as I have no intention of getting sucked into petty debates with you.[/quote]I''m not surprised. Like any bully, you run away when people stand up to you.If you can find anything that I have said which contradicts what I have said on this thread and the others that you have been hounding me on, please let me know and I will discuss it with you. I doubt that you will, however, because you will probably lie low for a while before finding else to pick on.PS – you never did try to disassociate yourself from comments that "City fans are idiots did you?" I can only assume that you agree with the statement, which I think is grossly unfair on the majority (sizeble minority - depends upon what you believe) who love Norwich City but don''t join in protests. I deplore you for this more than anything you have ever said about me.

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[quote user="Badger"]PS – you never did try to disassociate yourself from comments that "City fans are idiots did you?" I can only assume that you agree with the statement,[/quote]Dont hold your breath waiting for a reply Badger as I suspect it''s not just me who will not stoop to answer your false dichotomy.

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[quote user="Buckethead"][quote user="Badger"]PS – you never did try to disassociate yourself from comments that "City fans are idiots did you?" I can only assume that you agree with the statement,[/quote]Dont hold your breath waiting for a reply Badger as I suspect it''s not just me who will not stoop to answer your false dichotomy. [/quote]Many a time old Desert Rat has told me "Son, never stoop to answering a false dichotomy!"Ok Buckethead, I will make it easier for you, you don''t have to discuss what you term a "false" dichotomy. (I think you need to look that one up again btw!)The original statement made by one of you fellow travellers was "Norwich City - a club run by idiots for idiots." If for the sake of argument, I say that we focus on just the second part of your mate''s allegation - i.e. that it is a club run "for idiots" - would you be happy to disassociate yourself from that? It is the seventh time - I have made it easy for you - go on you can do it!Or are you worried abour alienating extremist opinion?

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No Neil I''m pretty sure a false dichotomy is what you are presenting.Admit or deny "Norwich City - a club run by idiots for idiots."You omit option three ''ignore as irelevant''.

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[quote user="Buckethead"]No Neil I''m pretty sure a false dichotomy is what you are presenting.Admit or deny "Norwich City - a club run by idiots for idiots."You omit option three ''ignore as irelevant''.[/quote]Sorry option three - why is this irrelevant? I''d have thought that it is quite significant.

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