Sell the Stadium?

[Wembley_Canary 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="West_London_Canary"]

Out of interest, which councils have offered to buy their local club a brand spanking new stadium? I''m talking withing the last 10 years by the way. I find it very hard believe that the Norwich City Council would even consider forking out 20-30m to fund us a new stadium when we already have a Premiership quality stadium in great condition.

[/quote]

Hull, Dartford, Doncaster etc. Stoke got a lot of financial help from their council. The one at Aberdeen is to cost £40m.

[/quote]

Swansea stadium.

[/quote]

All of those examples you picked up on needed a new stadium, Norwich doesn''t, plus none of those stadiums that were built by the Goverment are 30,000+.

[Wembley_Canary 0]

That should have said Council BTW.

[Smeg 0]

it does''nt matter anyway, Carrow Road is not worth anywhere near enough to clear our debts let a lone build a stadium, remember a developer is only interested in the land not the buildings, it would have the cost of demolition as well, this is norwich, a area which already has enough shops, has brown field sites alllocated for housing less then 1/4 mile from carrow road, but are not being built due to financial conditions.

i think the club got only £6m for the Read flour mill site, about 1/2 of the size of carrow road, and that was during the boom times, i doubt we would get more then £10m

 

what i could see happening is a sell and lease back of carrow road....

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Inchy, because I am trying (vainly) to make sure those five full time employees provide their money''s worth. When we continue to pay over inflated prices at the bar in the Russell Allison Lounge, it''s comforting to know that that money is going on gems like Tom

And Saturday night TV is rubbish.

Never mind, next week he''ll be focusing on the Jobs24 site instead.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

 

A new stadium could be bigger and better, pay off debts, and provide funds to sign players.

[/quote]

I suggest you look up Darlington FC and then think very carefully about what you have just said once done so.

jas :)

[Chrisr 0]

I would object on the grounds that I think it is morally wrong for public money to be used in the way you are suggesting Tom. I think Gazza touched on this. Professional football clubs should not be allowed to gain competitive advantage by the use of council tax payers money. My tax should be spent on things that are more important than football. Oh, and the idea of moving to some terrible wasteland site with home fans only "hungry horse" style pubs complete with crap generic cooking lager and a ball pool makes me want to rip my face off. 

[paul moy 235]

The current ground is well-positioned, has a great atmosphere, and capacity can be increased to 40,000 by adding an extra tier or two to the City stand.  Purpose-built stadia lack atmosphere and I think it would definitely be a retrograde step to move. 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Chris R - You''ve been to Derby and Stoke''s new stadiums then! Oh and probably Northampton!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]No, no and no.

I am not that knowledgeable about planning but if the old Woolies site can''t be turned into Asda home and living, for fear of traffic congestion, you can bet your life another large shop won''t pass their restrictive criteria either.

But let''s suppose they sold the stadium for redevelopment. What price would they achieve and what extra cost would have to be found to rebuild somewhere else? A football stadium is only really of use for football, or say a music venue. To build Tescos or similar it would have to be demolished. Therefore those costs would come off anything the club realises in a sale.

As for a new venue. Trowse, er no. Trowse is a small village. Imagine a few thousand cars going there for matchdays, think a few of the locals might object to that one, and therefore if any land there did exist (off the top of my head can''t think where you could build anyway) it would take years to go through all the stages of public enquiry, and to say nothing of the loss of public goodwill towards the club in the process.

As for council funded, don''t think so. And why would they want to? Who on earth would vote a council in who were likely to do that. Not me.

Unless a huge investment is secured by the club it will be staying exactly where it is. Even if planning permission and an adequate site is realised in the future it would take years to build and simply the club, as it is now, isn''t going to benefit from such a proposal.[/quote]The Nest used to be in the middle of Thorpe Hamlet - you can still see the terracing.  So I''m not sure about that (Burnley''s ground is bang in the middle of residential housing).But yes I agree Trowse is a terrible idea.  I like the ground as part of the city, god help us if we did an MK Dons and moved to some lifeless stadium in the middle of nowhere.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="gazzathegreat"]No, no and no. I am not that knowledgeable about planning but if the old Woolies site can''t be turned into Asda home and living, for fear of traffic congestion, you can bet your life another large shop won''t pass their restrictive criteria either. But let''s suppose they sold the stadium for redevelopment. What price would they achieve and what extra cost would have to be found to rebuild somewhere else? A football stadium is only really of use for football, or say a music venue. To build Tescos or similar it would have to be demolished. Therefore those costs would come off anything the club realises in a sale. As for a new venue. Trowse, er no. Trowse is a small village. Imagine a few thousand cars going there for matchdays, think a few of the locals might object to that one, and therefore if any land there did exist (off the top of my head can''t think where you could build anyway) it would take years to go through all the stages of public enquiry, and to say nothing of the loss of public goodwill towards the club in the process. As for council funded, don''t think so. And why would they want to? Who on earth would vote a council in who were likely to do that. Not me. Unless a huge investment is secured by the club it will be staying exactly where it is. Even if planning permission and an adequate site is realised in the future it would take years to build and simply the club, as it is now, isn''t going to benefit from such a proposal.[/quote]

The Nest used to be in the middle of Thorpe Hamlet - you can still see the terracing.  So I''m not sure about that (Burnley''s ground is bang in the middle of residential housing).

But yes I agree Trowse is a terrible idea.  I like the ground as part of the city, god help us if we did an MK Dons and moved to some lifeless stadium in the middle of nowhere.

[/quote]

 

I just found the Nest on Google Earth.  Very interesting !! 

 

 

[Yellafella 0]

If this was going to be done it should have been about 10 years ago, the area where makro etc is near thorpe would have been perfect but it''s just not a good idea now.

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"] A football stadium is only really of use for football, or say a music venue. [/quote]You''re forgetting somethinmg, gazza.......... [;)][IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2hrhl5j.jpg[/IMG]

[gazzathegreat 0]

Indeed it is Chops, I lived near it a few years ago on Rosary Road, there is a plaque on the wall of the nearest house, one of those history things which are all around the city.

I am sure in yesteryear NCFC could have got away with building a ground in a largely residential area, but not now. Some of the older ones in the middle of housing are Luton (the best really, the terrace is right in the middle of a terraced row of houses, you can see in the bedroom windows. Filbert Street was another, and Maine Road another. Most of these gone now.

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

[quote user="Lincs CR"]One of the reasons we fill Carrow Road is because it is a top stadium... a lower-premiership club stadium, with one of the best attendance percentages in British Football. Massive income from tickets and season ticket holders... no... just no...[/quote]

A new stadium could be bigger and better, pay off debts, and provide funds to sign players.

[/quote]

You aint going to get the crowds in the third tier of football though. [:S]

[Mtv 0]

You guys are getting wrapped up in the detail and that is just wrong...First look at the Idea, and the idea was IF it was viable and it assisted the new owners then I would be for moving from Carrow Road. Like I said it is not  the holy grail.....it is just a football ground and if the assest was benficial to the club then cash it in.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="mtv"]

You guys are getting wrapped up in the detail and that is just wrong...First look at the Idea, and the idea was IF it was viable and it assisted the new owners then I would be for moving from Carrow Road. Like I said it is not  the holy grail.....it is just a football ground and if the assest was benficial to the club then cash it in.

[/quote]

But it isn''t viable as the detail in the majoirty of posts here are saying.

[Mtv 0]

And could you please tell me just what makes the ''majority'' of posters on here bloody experts in all of this? Look its an idea, nothing more and nothing less. The trouble is that most people cant see past the ''tradition'' and into the future and what it may hold.

I am sure the fans who watch the City (all 45,000 of them) felt the same way but things move on...and regardless of what you or me think, move on they will. 

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="mtv"]

And could you please tell me just what makes the ''majority'' of posters on here bloody experts in all of this? Look its an idea, nothing more and nothing less. The trouble is that most people cant see past the ''tradition'' and into the future and what it may hold.

I am sure the fans who watch the City (all 45,000 of them) felt the same way but things move on...and regardless of what you or me think, move on they will. 

[/quote]

Do i really need to go through all the valid reasons outlined in this thread let alone the current economic climate as to why this suggestion is a complete non starter. It has nothing to do with tradition all though i would feel a sense of regret at the loss of Carrow Road. Agreed things move on, but they arnt going to be moving on in this way. The only way i can see the land and the modern stadium at Carrow Road being sold is if the club goes bust.

[tom cavendish 0]

Darlington only got small crowds so didn''t need a 25,500 capacity stadium.

If NCFC and the council had got their heads together then they could have put in plans for a new 40,000 stadium or extend CR to 40,000 and look to host World Cup matches as part of the England 2018 bid.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

Darlington only got small crowds so didn''t need a 25,500 capacity stadium.

If NCFC and the council had got their heads together then they could have put in plans for a new 40,000 stadium or extend CR to 40,000 and look to host World Cup matches as part of the England 2018 bid.

[/quote]

Tom, i actually think you`ve started an interesting thread here and in theory, if the finances really stacked up i would support it.  The trouble is that many people, given recent history, will not trust financial decisions made by the board.  A move would also make a mockery of the tens of millions thrown at Carrow Rd which has lead to our demise on the pitch.

But why are you even suggesting building a 40,000 ground when you only believe our catchment to be 220,000 people?

[The Fish Seller 0]

giggle.

[Herb 0]

Funny how most of the people who say "NO!" are the same people who would happily see City sold to a faceless investor - any faceless investor - with intentions unknown.Be careful what you wish for.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Herb"]Funny how most of the people who say "NO!" are the same people who would happily see City sold to a faceless investor - any faceless investor - with intentions unknown.
Be careful what you wish for.
[/quote]

Indeed and one of the dangers of having NCFC having new owners, is that a lot of investors(owners) in football clubs actually secure their loans against the stadium so they can gamble a fortune on players and if it does not work out then the owners can still get their money back even if the club goes into admin.

[komakino 272]

This was initially looked at in the late 1980''s by Robert Chase, as a possible move to the showground, but this proved unworkable.

I live in Trowse and that is a non-starter as there is no room, but it is possible to build somewhere next to the bypass, so a potential railway station could be built on the Norwich-Ely line.

I''d much prefer us to stay at Carrow Road, but if the club started to be successful again in the future, it is definitely an option to consider. You can''t let sentimental feelings get in the way of common sense.

[Fromage Frais 10]

I thought the Stadium has already been sold.Ie placed as collateral agianst loans

[Wembley_Canary 0]

[quote user="komakino"]This was initially looked at in the late 1980''s by Robert Chase, as a possible move to the showground, but this proved unworkable. I live in Trowse and that is a non-starter as there is no room, but it is possible to build somewhere next to the bypass, so a potential railway station could be built on the Norwich-Ely line. I''d much prefer us to stay at Carrow Road, but if the club started to be successful again in the future, it is definitely an option to consider. You can''t let sentimental feelings get in the way of common sense.[/quote]

I hate the idea of having a football stadium outside of the City, Carrow Road is the ideal location and I can''t name any other potential locations for a new stadium that would come even close to CR. If we can become an establised Premiership team in the future then CR has the potential to increase to 35,000 which would be enough for us unless we were to start challenging for Europe on a regular basis which doesn''t look a likely option in this lifetime.

 

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="komakino"]This was initially looked at in the late 1980''s by Robert Chase, as a possible move to the showground, but this proved unworkable.

I live in Trowse and that is a non-starter as there is no room, but it is possible to build somewhere next to the bypass, so a potential railway station could be built on the Norwich-Ely line.

I''d much prefer us to stay at Carrow Road, but if the club started to be successful again in the future, it is definitely an option to consider. You can''t let sentimental feelings get in the way of common sense.[/quote]Sometimes those sentimental feelings are common sense, a city centre location makes us increasingly unique (though I realise that''s a non-sequitur)

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Have a look at the land either side of big tracts of the Southern bypass and there is a big clue as to why nothing has ever been built there....

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="tom cavendish"]

Darlington only got small crowds so didn''t need a 25,500 capacity stadium.

If NCFC and the council had got their heads together then they could have put in plans for a new 40,000 stadium or extend CR to 40,000 and look to host World Cup matches as part of the England 2018 bid.

[/quote]

Tom, i actually think you`ve started an interesting thread here and in theory, if the finances really stacked up i would support it.  The trouble is that many people, given recent history, will not trust financial decisions made by the board.  A move would also make a mockery of the tens of millions thrown at Carrow Rd which has lead to our demise on the pitch.

But why are you even suggesting building a 40,000 ground when you only believe our catchment to be 220,000 people?

[/quote]

I actually agree with alot of what you write on this thread tom, but do you now think City require a 40,000 stadium?  No shame in admitting you`ve changed your mind.

[Desert Fox 0]

Mr C,

Fat chance of that happening. He has still refused to acknowledge that his claim that Bath has a bigger population than Norwich is ridiculous. Some are better at dishing out than receiving!!