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Pudd

Gunn could be the right man

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I don''t agree that Gunn isn''t capable of management.

I do believe that there is a culture throughout the club of accepting failure though.

The current management know it - but they need better support from above.

Gunn is in charge of the players. The problems run much deeper.

Four successive managers have failed to galvanise the team since relegation from the Premiership.

http://bit.ly/mQ8tE

Give Gunn a chance.... Back him.. And it''s not just about money.

The other managers have had money. It''s about attitute.

Expect sucesss. Demand it!

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Well said Pudd. I agree. He had to deal with Roeder''s team last year. Now he has the chance to make his own team and if it works out well then it will be a smart move keeping him as manager.

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IF we appoint Gunn, irrespective of whether or not we like the decision, then we have to give him the chance.

I dont want Gunn, BUT, I would give him every chance to build his own squad and do what he thinks is right for the club. Personally I believe that being anti-Gunn after an appointment is only going to be counter productive.

My personal opinion is that he is tactically very weak, and possibly a little bit of a push over, but that said...... with his own squad, I am hoping he will be able to create a good dressing room atmosphere.

I think that he could do alright, but then I also think that he couldnt.

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People can (quite reasonably) point out that whilst he inherited an iffy squad, but quite a few of the players we had in our final weeks were actually Gunn''s own signings - if only on loan (Lee, Carney, Cody, Gow, Mooney, Shacks) - or ones he''d brought in from the cold (Lappin)...and that is not forgetting the other signings that were Leijer (used about twice) and Killen (did he actually play more than a few minutes?). 

I don''t think Gunn would be my choice, after seeing some of the picks he made (eg v Sheff Weds in particular), the way we simply gave up at times (eg when Reading went 1-up) or didn''t perform and seemed completely devoid of motivation when it mattered (Charlton).

But being fair, there is a lot of difference between signing last-minute loans and building a squad of players who you know have the character that is needed.  I guess you have to learn from mistakes and if he was given the job we''d have to give him a chance.  Of course, put simply there''s not much else we can do.

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So you want us to back him while he learns how to manage. he has already made a few mistakes and maybe a more experienced manager would have kept us up, though i do not blame him for the relegation.

We have to challenge for promotion this year and if he doesnt get off to a good start then we will not get out of the league.

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He ''could'' be quite able to pull it off. And I''ll support his team if it''s his next season. But the thing we can''t ignore or endorse is the manner with which the managership of NCFC eventually became available to him. A litany of errors and an abject lack of luck, 3rd grade responses to crisis and a placement of chips based on emotion and hope rather than footballing sense. If he''s to become a true manager then it would be nice if he developed that skill by taking us back up, but how the hell has it really come to this?

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Failure - the NCFC board''s definition of success!!

 

Now, don''t you go keeping us up Bryan, we can''t compete with these big boys. We''re lil'' ol'' Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarwich!!!

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[quote user="Pudd"]

I don''t agree that Gunn isn''t capable of management.

I do believe that there is a culture throughout the club of accepting failure though.

The current management know it - but they need better support from above.

Gunn is in charge of the players. The problems run much deeper.

Four successive managers have failed to galvanise the team since relegation from the Premiership.

http://bit.ly/mQ8tE

Give Gunn a chance.... Back him.. And it''s not just about money.

The other managers have had money. It''s about attitute.

Expect sucesss. Demand it!

[/quote]

Its ok to reward failure, he had 19 games in change and his approach to vital games was scary, he had a football experienced team around him and they still failed to deliver when it mattered, there abilty to spot errors in the team and make vital changes was lacking, even when it screamed at them!i for one dont see how the club can move forward reward failure, we have done that far to long, if only we had some board members with a little fottball know how! God help us!

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]

People can (quite reasonably) point out that whilst he inherited an iffy squad, but quite a few of the players we had in our final weeks were actually Gunn''s own signings - if only on loan (Lee, Carney, Cody, Gow, Mooney, Shacks) - or ones he''d brought in from the cold (Lappin)...and that is not forgetting the other signings that were Leijer (used about twice) and Killen (did he actually play more than a few minutes?). 

I don''t think Gunn would be my choice, after seeing some of the picks he made (eg v Sheff Weds in particular), the way we simply gave up at times (eg when Reading went 1-up) or didn''t perform and seemed completely devoid of motivation when it mattered (Charlton).

But being fair, there is a lot of difference between signing last-minute loans and building a squad of players who you know have the character that is needed.  I guess you have to learn from mistakes and if he was given the job we''d have to give him a chance.  Of course, put simply there''s not much else we can do.

[/quote]

And once again we hear about the fact that it was ''Gunn''s team'' at the end of the season. What utter rubbish. It was Roeder''s. Yes Gunn brought in several new faces, and some of them proved to be a big hit, but before he went shopping the shelves were nearly bare, he had to pick up the ''special offers'' and the ones who had been left on that shelf! Baring this in mind his decisions were not that bad!

He has the job at the moment and there are plenty of other inexperienced managers in the league who have proved themselves as novices notably Zola, Di Matteo, Ferguson. He had, and now has, little or no money, a below strength squad, some very poor players but he has been able to consolidate a backroom staff and make some moves towards improving the squad.

The impossible he might be able to manage but a miracle might take him a little longer ........ make no mistake we have been left in a position where we need a miracle.

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I think if the board wants to take another cheap option then I would rather they kept Gunn as opposed to bringing in Calderwood or the equivalent.  At least Gunn knows the squad and it''s strengths and weaknesses (or he should by now).

If we opt to bring in a new manager then they need to be backed to the hilt by the board and by the fans.  Not sure that Gunn is ever going to get the same.

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Well if people are just going to say "the problems are higher up" (which is obviously true) and "it wasn''t his team" then frankly you might as well appoint me as manager for all the difference it will supposedly make...

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Clearly,it makes sense that if Gunn and Co are appointed then we''ll either have to accept it or give up on NCFC. For most of us the latter is not an option.

But...that said,no-one has so far made any sort of coherent case (other than money) that they would be the right men for the job. I cannot remember any club in Norwich''s current plight turning it round with complete novices at the helm.At the very best it''s been a novice as manager,with an old lag "upstairs" keeping an eye on him.

I''m perfectly prepared to accept that Gunn was given a poisoned chalice,but some of his decisions since Jan have been questionable,to put it mildly. Fair enough,he''s learning the job,but ,what riles me,is that we didn''t have the luxury of time for this learning exercise to take place.And we CERTAINLY don''t now. Unless things are at least turned around in the next 6 months,then our stay in the lower leagues will be a long one,and,if that''s the case,I do fear for the club''s whole survival.

The common sense view is that right now we need not only a change in the "anything will do"/defeatist attitude of the board,but also a management team who know their way around League One,and have a proven track record of success.

With his "getting his excuses in first" performance yesterday,Butterworth has shown that he clearly is very suspect as regards the above.

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Wiz: I usually find you a bit ''black and white'' in your one way responses but ''he''ll be gone by October'' is frighteningly astute. As has been said on another post - this summer has groundhog day written all over it...

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Appointing Gunn as Manager based on one 4-0 win against Barnsley was a knee jerk reaction, and may, with hindsight, have been wrong.

Dismissing him after 19 games in which he failed to turn round the ship that Roeder had set on course for the rocks would be a knee jerk reaction and may, with hindsight, turn out to be wrong.

Rather than the sterile "Gunn is a legend / Gunn should go " debate, let''s focus on what the club actually needs.

1.   An end to the loans policy that Roeder built his team on, and which deprived us of any chance of actually building and developing a team.

2.   An end to the delusion that we are better than we are, and require "premiership quality".  Which, since we weren''t prepared to pay for it, meant we got "premiership quality" loanees who were either too young or too injury prone or too fragile to survive in the hurly burly of the Championship.   We needed good, strong, Championship players last season, and for next seasson we need good, strong, League One players.

3.   An end to sending out a team without leaders (and falling out with and sacking and not replacing any who might be).

4.   Experience at the helm.

5.   Someone who is in post now since it is apparent from Marhsall''s rumoured departure that the transfer market is going to start up, and we can''t allow a repeat of previous seasons.   The worst case scenario is we dither for six weeks, then appoint a new man, who has to appoint his own team, who then tells the squad that "everyone starts with a clean slate" and it''s October before he''s looked at what he has and we''re seriously in the market, by which time we''re down to taking other people''s cast off''s on loan again, and fighting another relegation battle again.

6.   Someone who knows the team now, and knows what he has got (and hasn''t got) in our squad so they can start overhauling the squad.

7.   Some stability.  A fourth manager in under two years will make us (even more of) a laughing stock and won''t encourage anyone to come here.

8.   Some luck.  With injuries and penalty decisions.

Plainly, getting a new man in may tick the box for point 4.   Though it''s worth noting that most people''s choices are for someone relatively inexperienced like Robbins with one good season behind him.   A new man might tick the boxes on points 1,2 and 3, but might not - we could end up with another Roeder.  Do you really trust the Board to get it right this time?  A new man does not tick the box on points 5, 6,or 7.

Gunn would tick the box on 1,2 and 3 (given what he did in 19 games and has said after them) and on 5,6 and 7.   He would not tick the box on 4.

As for point 8, who knows?

All of which suggests that - whilst the knee jerk reaction is to want a new man - we could do worse than Gunn.  If he''s picked, he''ll have my support.

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