Do the club actually want to stay up?

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Perhaps the answer lies in the coaching staff, none of ours seem to have any passion on the touchline. Lets have someone in who is passionate on the touchline, can wake the players up before the game begins, can teach them to pass the ball quickly on the ground to one of their own, can ensure they close players down much quicker than they do now and ensure that ninety minutes means ninety and not forty five.

I still feel positive and hope that we can stay up. I feel that our lack of height in defence is now beginning to tell - Ferguson for Everton, Moore for WBA won most things in the air (but fortunately didnt make them count) perhaps a tall centre half could also weigh in with a few goals. A midfielder in the mold of Strachan committed and encouraging others and somebody up front to finish off.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Campbell you don''t know what your dabbling with here!  Don''t mock the Wiz.  You will regret it

[Al Yellow 0]

Campbell welcome to the board, nice to see another poster amongst the ranks of the sane.

 

I think we can see that none of the board veterans can provide any hard numbers to back up their spending plans. All we''ve had is religious claptrap, magical references, a death threat and the usual patronising attitude to anyone with less than 700 posts to their name. Very useful indeed...... still at least it keeps them off the streets.

[ZLF 274]

Have we only spent £2m? I understand that Jonson and Docherty cost the best part of a million each and Safri was £500k. Thats before their higher wages are allowed for.

On top of that are the increased wages of each existing player - I think city went from paying £20k pw for hux to nearer £30k once we were promoted. Thats and additional half a mill a year on just one player. With a larger squad that increase in wages eats into the budget quite quickly.

In addition there will be less revenue from match day sales and ticket income as there are fewer home games to sell. Allowing for the relaying of the pitch the cash is going quicker than appears to be the case.

I am not excusing the board but it is impossible for us mere fans to know what the budget is. We do know that there is a transfer kitty for Worthy to spend but it is unlikely to be enough for us fans to see all the players we want arrive at carrow road.

In answer to the question do the club want to stay up I think the answer is a definite yes - but on the basis that the club has a sustainable future.

OTBC

[ZLF 274]

PSI forgot to mention on the wages front there have been some savings - there have been no win bonus'' ;-)OTBC

[StevenageFan 0]

on top of what zippers says, I have noticed people keep saying about getting £15M or more just for getting promoted.   Do you think they give you a cheque on the opening day of the season?  It is more than likely given in installments throughout the year to prevent clubs spending it all in a mad rush of blood. 

Okay you could argue that we could still get the cash off the bank as we know it is coming in throughout the season, but with a £25M debt I doubt even the bank would loan us anymore.

As a1 (I think) has just said, neither DD or Wiz have answered any of the questions.  They moan about the club for having no balls and not wanting to stay up, but don''t have of the answers.  They also say we will lose half the squad if we go down.

I have these questions for them both:

1)  PLease list all the players that you honestly think would leave Norwich if we were relegated this year, also please tell us what Premiership clubs are likely to buy them?   Apart from Green of course.

2)  Please tell us what player or players you would have Nigel buy for £5M?  Bearing in mind the following: (a) they want to leave their current club (b) they have affordable wages (c) they are more likely to score goals or create goals than what we currently have.

It is easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

Please note, I am not against buying more players to strengthen the squad at all.  I just get annoyed when people moan about something they have no answers to themselves.   I also believe like zipper that we can stay in the Prem with what we have plus a couple of affordable signings in January.  I also believe that if we did go down, we would be in a much position than any other club down there to bounce back as long as we don''t break the bank and panic spend.

[Saint Canary 0]

I can’t see the point of discussing figures, no-one knows the financial state of the club, no-one but the board.  I really don’t see how buying a couple of good players would “ruin” the club financially, if we spend wisely we could buy players who other clubs would want to buy off us, should we go down.  Ok, we may make a bit of a loss but we would not be weighed down by wages. 

 

It just appears that the board are not quite doing enough for NW to keep us in the league.  How “Prudent” is it to be in the Championship next year and maybe the year after?  Not very, the more time you spend out of the Premier League means the gaps between you and other teams in there will widen in terms of quality you can bring into a squad.  Sustained involvement in the PL is the best way to move forward as a club.  I just can’t help thinking that the board were already crunching the numbers for next season in the championship before we even kicked a ball this year.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Classic example this morning:  According to the press (ok fair play it''s only a rumour) Steve Bruce is going to make a £3M swoop for Nathen the duke Ellington.  IMO Ellington would be absolutely perfect.  Strong, quick, confident and knows where the back of the net is.  I also don''t think £3M would break the bank.  Would we go for him though? No

[susie b 0]

Of course the club has crunched the numbers for next season in the Championship...they would be utterly stupid not to.  I think it''s called planning for the worst case scenario, and, as it''s one of two possibilities for us, they are doing absolutely the right thing for the club''s future.  They will, of course, have also done those sums with another season of the Premiership in mind too, that being the other possibility for next season.

I''m sorry if this upsets anyone but I cannot for the life of me see how anyone thinks that the club doesn''t want to stay up.  Of course they all do, from the players and the coaching staff to the bus driver and the tea lady!  It''s where we all want to be and everything possible will be done to make sure that happens, but it has been made clear to us that it will not be done at the expense of the long-term future stability of the club. 

Hallelujah for that!  As none of us has a complete and accurate picture of the club''s finances it''s all very well to say we should spend this or that and gamble a bit, but I feel that we are batting with our hearts here (so desperate are we to stay up) rather than with our heads.  I know others of you will not agree, but I''d rather have a club with a solid financial future to support than us risk meltdown next season if we don''t stay up and have to sell most of our best assets just to stay afloat.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Your post implies that you''re going to put a spell on me for questioning the fact if you''re a wizard or not, that will lead to me dying?! Any way I can complain about a post such as this to a modera...[/quote]

Campbell: And some posters reckon I''m potty!. 

[Old Boy 0]

"Lets have someone in who is passionate on the touchline"

like the ginger whinger you mean?

[bananaman 0]

But Saint - I don''t think anyone is denying that the board are being cautious.What the "sensible" brigade are actually asking is - Who would you bring in? Can we afford the whole package (wages etc)?How can you assure us that this one player will keep us up?It''s all very well being suspicious about over-caution but instead of pointing that out, tell me what you would do (and say) to persuade the board to part with 2/3 million quid.

[StevenageFan 0]

Exactly Bananaman, still none of them have answered the questions!!  Its because it''s not so easy is it, even if you did have £5M!!

As it now says on the main Pink un page, Nigel has admitted he is in the market for a striker come January, but fears he will be out priced and only has £1.2M to play with after all.   The big spenders were at least right about the lack of funds, but long term stability is the way forward.

Lets hope the boys can find someone decent with £1.2M and that the players we already have start to play first half football the way they play second half football.  I am still confident of a good season.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I see your point bananaman but what I would say to the board would probably be:

"Want to keep us up? Cos if you do...."

[Saint Canary 0]

Bananaman, there is no way I can assure that one player would keep us up, I don’t know who this one player is and I don’t know if we can afford the whole package but why would I?  I am not playing Championship Manager here am I?  If one player could keep us up, is it not worth taking a chance.

 

How would I justify myself to the board? In the same way I have explained myself earlier.  Buying a quality player is never a waste of money, if we go down we have a sellable asset, if we stay up we have another year of Premiership money to build on and the clubs financial future is even more assured.

 

A question to posters who disagree, do you not find it frustrating to see us going so close in most of the games we are playing but just falling slightly short?  I really do think we could stay up but at the moment we are just lacking something extra in our game. 

 

I don’t know all the answers but I’m not being paid by NCFC to have them.  NCFC’s financial future would be much stronger if we stay in the PL.  There are no assurances we will bounce back up and even if we do there is no guarantee we would be better for it. 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Bananaman, there is no way I can assure that one player would keep us up, I don’t know who this one player is and I don’t know if we can afford the whole package but why would I? I am not playing C...[/quote]

I''ve always said we should go for Harewood, and to hell with the expense!.

In reply to my younger critic''s on here, OK, that Campbell chap!. Until Pardew switched him out wide, the guy was scoring for fun. And what goals they were too, no ''tap ins'' with this player!.

Now, you don''t lose that wonderful natural ability, sure, a loss of confidence and being unsettled (remember Hucks at Man City?) can affect his performance. But I''m convinced a great club like City would work wonders for him.

I''d certainly go to £5 million for him.

Trouble is, it won''t happen with the current mob holding the purse strings!.

No, he won''t guarantee survival, but it may just help a little. 

 

[ZLF 274]

Saint - no one disagrees that the club needs a striker to partner Hux and bag those chances we have been missing - I said back in April that to survive in the prem we needed a quality striker, a pacy centre back and a ball playing central midfielder. None of those have yet arrived at the club and this oversight means we are very unlikely to stay in the prem this season. This is all the more frustrating as I think we are VERY close to avoiding the drop with the current squad!

ALL the contributors to this thread have one thing in common - they want City to survive in the prem this season. The only difference is that contributors assessment of the risks attached. Risk assessment is a very personal matter, non scientific and a matter of opinion - no one view is right or wrong.

My view of the Newcastle game is that we should not play Hux in case he gets injured or suspended in a game we are likely to lose - to me that risk is too great compared to hux being available for the citeh game on Monday. Others see the game as an opportunity to boost funds and confidence - nowt wrong with that.

I agree a quality striker is likely to score goals and keep us up. However if we do sign a quality striker and we still get relegated we will lose money on them - we will buy at the top end price wise (prem club) and will sell at a significantly lower value (Championship prices - Paul robinson is a prime example) so it would mean accepting a loss (or a waste of money in some eyes)on the deal. Another risk is spending £5m on who, it could get you Adi Akiniyi (Thanks for the prompt Robbo) or it could get you the next Anelka or Hasselbaink who could score goals but not fit in. Look at Sutton - a proven finisher who could hit a barn door at Chelsea. Personally, signing a quality proven player (petit, djorkaeff) is a low risk option that we must take - my concern has always been identifying those players and signing them before some one else starts sniffing around.

I am clearly in favour of the prudent investment route. Ashton is a good long term buy but he could be useless for us this year. My view is that Harewood/Johansen are no better than Leon so would be £3.5m spent badly - but thats what this game is all about - opinions. What is not in doubt is anyones passion for the club to remain a prem team.

We must remain united but accept disparate views.

OTBC

[Campbell 0]

[quote]Campbell you don''t know what your dabbling with here! Don''t mock the Wiz. You will regret it[/quote]

Do you want to expand on that?

I''ve already had a threat made against my life (which the Police may hear about) so if you''re in any way clued up on what is going to happen (you seem pretty confident in 1st Wizard''s abilities) I think you''re somehow involved 

This is all becoming rather tiresome: Grow up

Back on topic: It''s good to see so many people with sensible views on here (Al Yellow, Stevenage Fan, Susie B)

Money just doesn''t appear from nowhere; just because we''re a football club in the Premiership doesn''t mean we have a spare few million. Stop expecting us to have money, it''s not how it is, and the quicker you realise this, the better...you can then concentrate all your energies into supporting the team; got to be better than making threats on a messageboard like a couple of 14 year olds (Take note 1st Wizard and your friend DumbleDelia)

[nolegs 0]

1st Whiz at 5million "Harewood be a false prophet"

[Saint Canary 0]

Stevenagefan, my main problem in all this is that it appears that the board are hoping we will stay up rather than believing we can do it.

 

As you point out NW will have £1.2m to spend, I and most of us were led to believe by Mr Doncaster a few weeks back that these would be “extra” funds not our total transfer kitty.  What you have to ask yourself now is, when just before the transfer window closed and we had just signed “the Doc” NW said he was looking for 1 or 2 more players and one of those would be a striker.  Where have the funds for those transfers gone?  Were we ever really looking to buy any more players?  Or were the board/NW lying to the fans/NW about wanting to buy players/having money?

 

Only at NCFC can money to buy 2 players + £1.2m equal £1.2m.  Hmmm where has the money gone?

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

whu might be reluctant to let harewood go now they''ve strung some results together and still have an eye on auto-promotion.how about Helguson from Watford?

[Super Shaun Carey 0]

So, you would go to £5 million for Harewood.

I bet Neil Doncaster has already ear marked you for the board.

Have you just come back from the Beer Festival???

 

 

[Ayrton Twigge 0]

Do the club actually want to stay up??

I don''t think there''s any doubt about that - the question is how.

Wizard - bow out of this one now, its doing nothing for your credibility. £5m for one unproven Div 1 player is, simply, ridiculous.

WBA have pushed the boat out financially - and are they any further forward than us - I don''t think so. Seems like they''ve still got to work out their strategy - its all kick and hope for them. And I doubt they''ll have money to spend in January.

With shrewd purchasing - plus some loans  - a lot can still be had for £1.5 to 2m, which is about NW''s budget.

Personally, central defence is looking decidedly shakey, and, dependent on how Shackell responds to the step up, we may need to spend some money there.

 

[Al Yellow 0]

[quote]I''ve always said we should go for Harewood, and to hell with the expense!. In reply to my younger critic''s on here, OK, that Campbell chap!. Until Pardew switched him out wide, the guy was scorin...[/quote]

£5mio Harewood? This thread is disappearing off into the fantasy realm I believe you write about first Wizard. An utter gamble on a player on a player, who if we were to go down would only attract bids from fizzy pop clubs and we all know how much money there is down there. I can only think these two threads are some kind of wind up.

 

Again I''d like to challenge the seasoned veterans of the message board to explain the finances to us ''youngsters'', please enlighten us wise ones .......

[bananaman 0]

Thanks Wiz. I like your thinking, and I could be persuaded that Harewood could do the biz. Pardew is a plank for playing him on the wing. Have heard a lot of rumours he is lazy both on the pitch and in training though.

Sorry DD - I respect what you are saying, but tell me WHO you would recommend? Ashton, Harewood, Earnshaw, Christie ...

Oh hang on, the WBA board already loosened the purse strings for Earnshaw and he can''t hit a cow''s *rse with a banjo.

Saint Canary - if WBA go down, how much will they sell Earnshaw for? £3.5m? I don''t think so. His market value has dropped dramatically already. They already gambled by paying over market value for him, and if he doesn''t do the business soon their gamble will not have paid off at all.

What if that happens to us? If we pay £3.5m for Harewood and he starts to misfire and loses confidence? We certainly won''t see that money back again, and in our position £3.5m is way too much to gamble.

[ZLF 274]

Wiz - your view is that Harewood is the player worth breaking the bank for - others, including mine, differ.

Harewood has potential but I have more questions about him than I do Ashton. Spending £5m is a high risk option (in my view) that has the possibility to deliver us from evil (well the championship anyway)but I would want a stronger player for my £5m (plus wages). £3m plus wages should get us Charisteas, a proven young international. The same price got the baggies Earnshaw who I dont rate but think is better than Harewood. Anything over £2m for harewood is too much, in my view of course, and would be better spent on young Dean.

£5m on Harewood signed in Jan has a far less value than that if we still get relegated, meaning aloss on the transfer. If we dont have the money now, and I have no idea whether we do or not, and cant obtain it from anywhere else we can spend far too long discussing something that simply isnt going to happen. At the moment discussing a £5m bid for Harewood is as fruitless as suggesting that Nige picks up the phone and talks about the availability of Kaka, Adriano, Buffon, Rooney, Henry etc and the other players that would probably save us from relegation.

I dont claim to have the answers, only my personal view, like you have yours.

OTBC

[Campbell 0]

[quote]I''ve always said we should go for Harewood, and to hell with the expense!. In reply to my younger critic''s on here, OK, that Campbell chap!. Until Pardew switched him out wide, the guy was scorin...[/quote]

So you''d pay £5m for a player who scored just 17  league goals last season (in a decent West Ham side) and has NEVER played in the Premiership? 

To hell with the expense? Hmmmm...You don''t seem to acknowledge that we DO NOT have large amounts of money! You either have money, or you don''t, and we don''t. If you want to dip into your own pocket and give us the £5m yourself, then go for it, but until then, stop being totally unrealistic and living in a fantasy world.

 

[StevenageFan 0]

Saint - yes I totally agree with your point.  I too was under the impression that the £1.2M was "extra" to whatever Nige didn''t spend when he got Doc.  I said as much on the other thread "Feeling sorry for Nigel" started by Wiz, which fundamentally is exactly the same as this one.

I think DD and Wiz are just bored and have both started us all off on two massive threads about exactly the same thing.  Neither of them have offered any opinions on who they think we could buy for the money they want to spend, but still both threads continue on, quite funny really and kept us all entertained for days now, well done chaps. 

[kennyfoggo 0]

there is a lot of mention of the 1.2 mill ..plus whatever the allocated budget is and perhaps any fees from the sale of players... but letz not forget that this isn''t only for actuall transfer fees, the wages etc have to be budgeted for out of that amount..

so the size of fund is actually smaller for fees....

[ZLF 274]

People are jumping on words. The phrase is at least £1.2m but that figure was widely reported once the fans let the club keep the money.

I think the club are right to not reveal the full extent of our transfer kitty - why alert clubs what we may be able to go to who then raise their price accordingly.

We are no further forward in know how much we can spend that than the weekend - we have at least £1.2m but who knows how much more. I''m pretty sure it aint as much £5m though, hey wiz ;-)

OTBC