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Kathy

NCISA press statement regarding the current situation at the football club

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[quote user="Beauseant"]

With respect I think a lot of people on this thread are overlooking a key point. Those who are criticising the wording/grammar/punctuation/ink colour etc of the statement refer to NCISA as if it''s something set apart from the fanbase. Repeating something I''ve said elsewhere, at the moment NCISA is recognised by the club and the media, and is cheap, easy to join and open to all. Consequently, if you don''t like something about it the answer is to join and change it from within, not sit on the outside carping at the efforts of genuine people who are doing things in their spare time and using the skill sets available to them.

At the moment the organisation is small, but it doesn''t have to stay that way. In my view it is the perfect vehicle for any coordinated fan response to, or dialogue with, the club. There has been way too much pointless and, quite often very personal, conflict on this board duirng the season, but the last couple of days have seen some sensible and constructive debate. We all want the same thing, namely City to rise from the ashes, but we won''t get it by bickering on this forum. NCISA isn''t perfect, but we can make it better,although that can only be done from the inside.

We either stand together or we fail.

[/quote]

Well said or for Lappinitup: BOARD OUT!

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One word to describe this . Weak. It never says you want these people to go, and indeed suplementing what is there with a couple more monkeys gives what you ask for. Pathetic

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[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thebigfeller"]

Sorry Kathy and Tilly: that just doesn''t do the job. We already suspect that Doncaster and probably Munby will go tomorrow in any case. This statement gives the board a very simple get out: scapegoat and get rid of them, then bring in who knows who else, who''ll probably just be apologists for Smith and Jones'' inept stewardship.

The statement makes no mention of the desperate need for footballing expertise on the board, nor of Bryan Gunn''s position, nor the specific role the joint majority shareholders have played in our downfall. I think it plays into the board''s hands, and is weak; far weaker than I was anticipating sadly.

[/quote]

My thoughts exactly BF.

Nowhere does it state that we nead a clearout from top to bottom.

It does not mention the fact that a large number of fans will not remain happy while Delia & Michael are majority shareholders of our club.

It also missed the chance to add that a large number of fans see that Bryan Gunn is not the man to lead us back in to the Championship.

But hey, ate least NCISA are now at least trying to do something... [Y]

[/quote]

Can''t argue with any of that, I only hope a far more detailed statment can be released after tomorrows events have taken place.

 

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[quote user="WilliamG"]One word to describe this . Weak. It never says you want these people to go, and indeed suplementing what is there with a couple more monkeys gives what you ask for. Pathetic
[/quote]

Fine lets rip each other apart like we have done since the Worthy Out days and achieve a big fat nothing, bickering amongst ourselves whilst the clock ticks ever on...and we says its the board who doesn''t learn from their mistakes.

UNITY IS STRENGTH

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

We disagree straight away bigfeller. I used to think it would be good to have someone like that on the board but have since changed my mind. If the they get the appointment of football manager right then someone on the board who "thinks they know best" could be counter-productive. Just as consulting with football people hasn''t helped get the appointment right anyway. I don''t know the way forward but I don''t pretend to either.

 

[/quote]

The only chap they seem to have consulted is Dave Stringer - who Canary legend though he might be, has been out of football for heading towards two decades. It''s no exaggeration to say that I honestly think they''re so out of their depth that many of us could do a better job appointing a manager: my reaction to hearing the news of every one of Grant, Roeder and Gunn''s appointments was total disbelief, and to utter a succint "oh, for fuck''s sake!"

As it is, someone with a background as a solicitor but whom they promoted beyond his capabilities in any case because he was around, and they were close to him (sound familiar, anyone?) sifts through managerial applications and compiles a shortlist: in other words, someone not in the slightest bit qualified to play a part in appointing a manager has done so over and over again. If you don''t appoint people of real footballing expertise to the board, you stand a much greater chance of getting it wrong; and you''ll also have no clue what to do about the scouting and youth setups, both of which until recently have been a standing joke.

The youth team''s done great this year, and provides real hope for the future: but I remember all the hullabaloo when Cooper and Hamilton went on and on about the academy. Yet the last graduate from the youth setup to establish himself in the first team was Jason Shackell in 2003 - and we wonder why we end up making so many loan signings and unable to develop a team with any cohesion or recognisability.

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As John Tilson is too shrinking a violet to point this out, his article in Saturday''s Pink Un seems to say most of what the critics felt was left out of the press statement.  Why not read it?   (I was tempted to put it in italics)

Only dynamic leadership can lift us now

JOHN TILSON, NCISA

Back in 1963 the first two games I watched City play were a 5-0 FA Cup victory over Newcastle on a midweek evening, followed by a 6-0 league win over Stoke the following Saturday.

Looking back I suppose you could say that it has been downhill ever since but the Premiership season. I saw our first ever promotion back in 1972 on a Monday night at Leyton Orient to the old first division. Yes, relegations over the years followed but in these days we had "bounce back ability". Three League Cup finals at Wembley. Two FA Cup semi-finals at Villa Park and Hillsborough respectively. Three trips to Europe in one season.

A play-off final at Cardiff. Oh dear, oh dear, the happy memories, although on the odd occasion mixed with a defeat along the way are now but a distant memory. Our slide into football oblivion is almost complete barring a dramatic turn around in fortunes tomorrow at The Valley.

It has taken only a few years to turn us from the Premiership club we were into Division One also-rans (go on Plymouth and Charlton, make me eat my words).

How the hell has this happened? It is two years this month since I became chairman of NCISA and I have shaken hands with three different managers. NCISA has sponsored a list of assistant managers and first team coaches almost too long to remember. Directors have left, leaving the boardroom with far too many empty seats in my opinion and, on top of that, a good man in Andy Cullen, whose blood is without doubt yellow and green, left the sinking ship.

The cause of our demise has been brought about by lack of finance, if you listen to our chief executive and chairman. Yes, the majority shareholders have plugged the holes as and when necessary but the best intentions will not pick our football club up from off its knees and give me a glimmer of hope for the future.

It needs dynamic leadership from the top in the cutthroat world of finance and someone on the board with a football brain to halt the succession of bad and easy option managerial appointments.

The train has hit the buffers and not before time the finger of blame must be pointed at those responsible. The question is, are the gang of five left in the boardroom guilty or not guilty?

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[quote user="WilliamG"]One word to describe this . Weak. It never says you want these people to go, and indeed suplementing what is there with a couple more monkeys gives what you ask for. Pathetic
[/quote]

 

And you''re going to do what? It''s easy to snipe, rather harder to contribute.

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I doubt Stringer was the only person they consulted bigfeller but whoever they consulted they got the appointments wrong. I stand by my point that a football man on the board could be counter productive. You love your history, did Watling need a football man to get the best out of Ron Saunders? Did Sir Arthur need a football man to get the best out of John Bond and Ken Brown? Did Big Bob need a football man to get the best out of Dave Stringer, Dave Williams and Mike Walker? Did Smith&Jones need a football man to get the best out of Worthy? Of course not, they managed it with mutual respect and, dare I say it, in most cases a close relationship.

I remember all the fuss about the youth set up back then too. We can but hope the youth we have now are more succesfull.

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I doubt Stringer was the only person they consulted bigfeller but whoever they consulted they got the appointments wrong. I stand by my point that a football man on the board could be counter productive. You love your history, did Watling need a football man to get the best out of Ron Saunders? Did Sir Arthur need a football man to get the best out of John Bond and Ken Brown? Did Big Bob need a football man to get the best out of Dave Stringer, Dave Williams and Mike Walker? Did Smith&Jones need a football man to get the best out of Worthy? Of course not, they managed it with mutual respect and, dare I say it, in most cases a close relationship.

I remember all the fuss about the youth set up back then too. We can but hope the youth we have now are more succesfull.

 

[/quote]

Quite clearly, Sir Geoffrey, Sir Arthur and to some extent Chase had their finger on the pulse footballing wise in a way the current lot don''t. (I say "to some extent" in Chase''s case because he appointed Deehan and left him in charge too long when he was really only ever a coach; and was *this* close to appointing Phil "Yes Boss!" Neal instead of Walker). But it''s different now in any case. We had something of a Liverpool-style conveyor belt back then; we don''t now, and the penalties for failure are infinitely greater. They simply got lucky with Worthington: if they''d never appointed Hamilton, NW wouldn''t even have entered their thoughts. As it was, getting lucky once, and getting it wrong four times now is ample evidence that changes are needed, and a very different sort of person needed to drag that boardroom into the 21st century at last.

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Coming in late on this, but:a) applaud the intentb) see that the story is headline news on the EEN website, so well done for thatc) understand the urgency re: timing and maximising the opportunityd) yes, could have been clearer but as an opening salvo, it should be effective.

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On another thread (ok, ok, one I started) it was mentioned that Rick Parry was finishing with Liverpool at the end of this season.  If I was an independant association of supporters, and I wanted to make a point about the current board, without directly criticising them but pointing them directly to the calibre of man we could use here ( I doubt he would come but it makes a direct point about what we are missing), I would make a petition in the form of an open letter inviting / begging Rick Parry to take up a new challenge.You could do something like this...Dear Mr ParryWe the under-signed urge you to consider a new challenge as CEO of Norwich City.  Our well-meaning board have presided over a fall from grace over the last 4 seasons, throwing in good money after bad, after making, with hindsight, some bad managerial appointments.  We believe that someone with your knowledge, experience and contacts would be just the shot in the arm our ailing club needs.  Our well supported clubs'' fans raised over £2 million in a share issue several years ago, and we still have 17,000 season ticket holders ready to follow the club into the murky depths of league 1.  Turning our club around could be your greatest challenge yet, and getting us back into the top tier would emulate the achievements of Liverpool in the 1960s.  We understand that you are a dyed in the wool Liverpool supporter, but hope that over time you could grow to love us as your second great football love affair.  We are positioned in a beautiful area of the country, and our many season ticket holders would be happy to contribute to a very good package for you, most of us would be happy to drive you here ourselves !Many ThanksFans of Norwich City.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]Well said. [/quote]Why do you keep saying "well said"?[/quote]Well asked.

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I, in the past have been one of the people who have criticised NCISA for being too slow to take action and for not standing up and being counted so I''m pleased that they have issued a statement ahead of the Board meeting tomorrow and I''m glad that they are now ready to stand up and be counted.

NCISA are at the end of the day are the only fans group we have who have access to the media, the radio and local tv, lets get behind them, lets increase their membership to get a bigger voice and lets get the club we love back.

 

 

 

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[quote user="LQ"]I wasn''t having a dig at anyone John. What would be the point?

I was asking (reasonably I thought) who the statement was from. On your website it clearly says that it''s from the Chairman and the Committee - fine and readers need to be clear about these things especially in light of the EDP article this morning which blazed "Associate Directors" all over the place when the letter was in fact only from two of them.

Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence when someone is just trying to clarify the situation doesn''t help anyone, least of all our Club.


[/quote]

I''d be very interested to know the thoughts and opinions of all appointed members of the NCFC SCG - on our current situation/predicament. 

Oh, and whether our present CE and Chairman - should carry on in their respective roles?....

 

 

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="LQ"]I wasn''t having a dig at anyone John. What would be the point?

I was asking (reasonably I thought) who the statement was from. On your website it clearly says that it''s from the Chairman and the Committee - fine and readers need to be clear about these things especially in light of the EDP article this morning which blazed "Associate Directors" all over the place when the letter was in fact only from two of them.

Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence when someone is just trying to clarify the situation doesn''t help anyone, least of all our Club.


[/quote]

I''d be very interested to know the thoughts and opinions of all appointed members of the NCFC SCG - on our current situation/predicament. 

Oh, and whether our present CE and Chairman - should carry on in their respective roles?....

 

 

[/quote]

An excellent post Mello Yello

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[quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="LQ"]I wasn''t having a dig at anyone John. What would be the point?I was asking (reasonably I thought) who the statement was from. On your website it clearly says that it''s from the Chairman and the Committee - fine and readers need to be clear about these things especially in light of the EDP article this morning which blazed "Associate Directors" all over the place when the letter was in fact only from two of them.Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence when someone is just trying to clarify the situation doesn''t help anyone, least of all our Club.

[/quote]

I''d be very interested to know the thoughts and opinions of all appointed members of the NCFC SCG - on our current situation/predicament. 

Oh, and whether our present CE and Chairman - should carry on in their respective roles?....

 

 [/quote]

Fair question in the circumstances - is there any way that you can get to ask that question though ?  Will asking that question in here get you that answer ?

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It''ll get him an answer from me, although I certainly can''t speak for the other members of the SCG and he probably won''t like what I say anyway!I''ll do what I always do - take my own counsel, look into everthing I can and then offer my opinion directly to those concerned. Whether they take it on board is up to them then, obviously.

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[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="LQ"]I wasn''t having a dig at anyone John. What would be the point?

I was asking (reasonably I thought) who the statement was from. On your website it clearly says that it''s from the Chairman and the Committee - fine and readers need to be clear about these things especially in light of the EDP article this morning which blazed "Associate Directors" all over the place when the letter was in fact only from two of them.

Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence when someone is just trying to clarify the situation doesn''t help anyone, least of all our Club.


[/quote]

I''d be very interested to know the thoughts and opinions of all appointed members of the NCFC SCG - on our current situation/predicament. 

Oh, and whether our present CE and Chairman - should carry on in their respective roles?....

 

 [/quote]

Fair question in the circumstances - is there any way that you can get to ask that question though ?  Will asking that question in here get you that answer ?

[/quote]

I believe that LQ is on the SCG?.....(But at the moment, she''s probably too busy blubbing watching the Arsenal - getting a drubbing)...

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[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Mello Yello"]

[quote user="LQ"]I wasn''t having a dig at anyone John. What would be the point?

I was asking (reasonably I thought) who the statement was from. On your website it clearly says that it''s from the Chairman and the Committee - fine and readers need to be clear about these things especially in light of the EDP article this morning which blazed "Associate Directors" all over the place when the letter was in fact only from two of them.

Knee-jerk reactions and taking offence when someone is just trying to clarify the situation doesn''t help anyone, least of all our Club.


[/quote]

I''d be very interested to know the thoughts and opinions of all appointed members of the NCFC SCG - on our current situation/predicament. 

Oh, and whether our present CE and Chairman - should carry on in their respective roles?....

 

 [/quote]

Fair question in the circumstances - is there any way that you can get to ask that question though ?  Will asking that question in here get you that answer ?

[/quote]

I believe that LQ is on the SCG?.....(But at the moment, she''s probably too busy blubbing watching the Arsenal - getting a drubbing)...

[/quote]

OOPS! Ships in the night.....

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See - that''s what you get for jumping to conclusions [;)]

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[quote user="LQ"]See - that''s what you get for jumping to conclusions [;)]



[/quote]

But, I bet you''ve still got one eye on the Arse![:P]

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So have you if you know they''re taking a drubbing [;)](actually I hadn''t - I''ve only just come in so thanks for the spoiler!)

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I fully respect that some people don''t feel comfortable with  protesting or turning up/speaking at fans forums, and don''t want to back/join NCISA thats everyone''s personal choice, but can I ask you this

What is your solution to getting changes at our club because I can''t believe there is anyone on this site who is happy with the shambles our club is in and as much as protestors and the more verbal people get criticised surely they are trying to do something which is better than moaning on here, hiding behind a keyboard and doing nothing.

 

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[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I doubt Stringer was the only person they consulted bigfeller but whoever they consulted they got the appointments wrong. I stand by my point that a football man on the board could be counter productive. You love your history, did Watling need a football man to get the best out of Ron Saunders? Did Sir Arthur need a football man to get the best out of John Bond and Ken Brown? Did Big Bob need a football man to get the best out of Dave Stringer, Dave Williams and Mike Walker? Did Smith&Jones need a football man to get the best out of Worthy? Of course not, they managed it with mutual respect and, dare I say it, in most cases a close relationship.

I remember all the fuss about the youth set up back then too. We can but hope the youth we have now are more succesfull.

 

[/quote]

Quite clearly, Sir Geoffrey, Sir Arthur and to some extent Chase had their finger on the pulse footballing wise in a way the current lot don''t. (I say "to some extent" in Chase''s case because he appointed Deehan and left him in charge too long when he was really only ever a coach; and was *this* close to appointing Phil "Yes Boss!" Neal instead of Walker). But it''s different now in any case. We had something of a Liverpool-style conveyor belt back then; we don''t now, and the penalties for failure are infinitely greater. They simply got lucky with Worthington: if they''d never appointed Hamilton, NW wouldn''t even have entered their thoughts. As it was, getting lucky once, and getting it wrong four times now is ample evidence that changes are needed, and a very different sort of person needed to drag that boardroom into the 21st century at last.

[/quote]

Bigfeller, you are proper journo, I''ll give you that much. By the same token that Liverpool conveyer belt wouldn''t have happened if they never appointed Shankly. Worthington was on the radar before Rioch was appointed, do you remember that? Blackpool at the time rejected the approach and the talk was they would be asking for too much compensation. In fact if I remember rightly it was Gordon Bennett who made the approach. And yes, the intitiative probably came from Hamilton but that''s just a case of the board using people inside football to help them. The other name at the time was Steve Bruce, who I believe was interviewed before he ended up player manager at Sheffield United. Bruce Rioch, also linked with the Sheffield United job, ended up here with Hamilton. Was he first choice? Your guess is as good as mine.

I dare say even Hamilton did some good during his time here, even if it was only pointing them toward Worthy all those years ago. Maybe Hapless Hammy would have been a better choice than Stringer to help out in the most recent managerial appointments? Perhaps his strength is selecting managers and coaches and his weakness is selecting players.

 

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Blimey Nutty, Hamilton was rubbish, in fact he''s gone better than any other city manager in my long time following NCFC, he actually made me fall asleep while watching his terminally dull and rubbish side try to play football. Can''t remember the game, thank goodness. But no one before or since has managed to be as bad.

I think the only good thing we can say about him is he''s long gone.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Bigfeller, you are proper journo, I''ll give you that much. By the same token that Liverpool conveyer belt wouldn''t have happened if they never appointed Shankly. Worthington was on the radar before Rioch was appointed, do you remember that? Blackpool at the time rejected the approach and the talk was they would be asking for too much compensation. In fact if I remember rightly it was Gordon Bennett who made the approach. And yes, the intitiative probably came from Hamilton but that''s just a case of the board using people inside football to help them. The other name at the time was Steve Bruce, who I believe was interviewed before he ended up player manager at Sheffield United. Bruce Rioch, also linked with the Sheffield United job, ended up here with Hamilton. Was he first choice? Your guess is as good as mine.

I dare say even Hamilton did some good during his time here, even if it was only pointing them toward Worthy all those years ago. Maybe Hapless Hammy would have been a better choice than Stringer to help out in the most recent managerial appointments? Perhaps his strength is selecting managers and coaches and his weakness is selecting players.

 

[/quote]

I''m no journalist, NN - but you really, really, really need to get over your Worthington obsession. It''s ridiculous! Hamilton, who was an absolute disgrace of a manager, and a total charlatan of a human being, did two good things in his time here:

1. Brought in Worthington as assistant;

2. Signed Paul McVeigh.

That''s it. After he left, just for once, the board got lucky and we enjoyed some success before it went sour. Worthington should''ve gone a year before he finally did; that he didn''t, and especially because our boneheaded group of idiots hadn''t got a clue how to replace him with a decent manager, played a large part in where we now find ourselves.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I doubt Stringer was the only person they consulted bigfeller but whoever they consulted they got the appointments wrong. I stand by my point that a football man on the board could be counter productive. You love your history, did Watling need a football man to get the best out of Ron Saunders? Did Sir Arthur need a football man to get the best out of John Bond and Ken Brown? Did Big Bob need a football man to get the best out of Dave Stringer, Dave Williams and Mike Walker? Did Smith&Jones need a football man to get the best out of Worthy? Of course not, they managed it with mutual respect and, dare I say it, in most cases a close relationship.

I remember all the fuss about the youth set up back then too. We can but hope the youth we have now are more succesfull.

 

[/quote]

Quite clearly, Sir Geoffrey, Sir Arthur and to some extent Chase had their finger on the pulse footballing wise in a way the current lot don''t. (I say "to some extent" in Chase''s case because he appointed Deehan and left him in charge too long when he was really only ever a coach; and was *this* close to appointing Phil "Yes Boss!" Neal instead of Walker). But it''s different now in any case. We had something of a Liverpool-style conveyor belt back then; we don''t now, and the penalties for failure are infinitely greater. They simply got lucky with Worthington: if they''d never appointed Hamilton, NW wouldn''t even have entered their thoughts. As it was, getting lucky once, and getting it wrong four times now is ample evidence that changes are needed, and a very different sort of person needed to drag that boardroom into the 21st century at last.

[/quote]

Bigfeller, you are proper journo, I''ll give you that much. By the same token that Liverpool conveyer belt wouldn''t have happened if they never appointed Shankly. Worthington was on the radar before Rioch was appointed, do you remember that? Blackpool at the time rejected the approach and the talk was they would be asking for too much compensation. In fact if I remember rightly it was Gordon Bennett who made the approach. And yes, the intitiative probably came from Hamilton but that''s just a case of the board using people inside football to help them. The other name at the time was Steve Bruce, who I believe was interviewed before he ended up player manager at Sheffield United. Bruce Rioch, also linked with the Sheffield United job, ended up here with Hamilton. Was he first choice? Your guess is as good as mine.

I dare say even Hamilton did some good during his time here, even if it was only pointing them toward Worthy all those years ago. Maybe Hapless Hammy would have been a better choice than Stringer to help out in the most recent managerial appointments? Perhaps his strength is selecting managers and coaches and his weakness is selecting players.

Isn''t this level of masturbatory semantics part of the problem?

We definitely need some short list of demands to rally round whether this is compiled by the NCISA, BF, NN, Mello or Smudger. Someone or some group needs to start to drive this in an organised and incisive way and sadly the first statement disappointed me in terms of style and content. However some people are good at rallying others, some people are good at writing pithily and beautifully, some people are good at taking notes, getting subscriptions in, making tea, getting up the nose of failing managers, etc, etc.

So let''s decide who does what, get an agreed list to hit the board with in a controlled, professional and relentless way and move on from there. If this can be the NCISA then great, if it is as amateurish, not literally, as the first statement and somebody else wants a go then put yourself forward. I''m ready to rally.           

 

[/quote]

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