A carthartic outpouring!

[Beauseant 0]

So it''s happened at last. We are dropping to our lowest level in nearly half a century and I''m still trying to work out how I feel. To be honest I''ve been preparing for this day since the Coventry game, because I just couldn''t see the players mustering the guts and fight to get us out of it. While Barnsley''s players stood up to be counted our mob simply stood up and asked to be excused. Now it''s happened, I feel strangely detached, because I have found it harder and harder as the season has worn on to feel any sort of attachment to those representing our club on the pitch.

Inevitably today has seen insults flying around like pollen in the hayfever season because we all want to hit out at something. Whilst the board are most people''s favourites (mine included) Gunn, Cullum and fellow fans have all been targets. The "I told you so" brigade are out in force (presumably they were so busy typing vitriol about the fellow fans they so abhor that they forgot to go to Carrow Road and protest this afternoon), and there are lots of calls to protest/ return season tickets/boycott games and so on. At the end of the day I respect anything that any true City fan decides to do, because I sure as hell haven''t got any answers. My only hope is that now we have gone down something will happen. Unfortunately, the early signs aren''t good, but time will tell. While the division drop should make the value of the shares more negotiable, the loss of income will mean that any buyer will need to dig deeper to service the loans and to replace ( I suspect) a large proportion of the playing staff, although one hopes that the like of Clingan will generate some much needed revenue, although whether this finds it''s way into the playing budget remains to be seen. Certainly there can be no ongoing justification for a CEO earning nearly £200K pa.

As  for the manager''s position, I have been against Gunn''s appointment from day one, and do not see how we can progress if he stays in post. I''m afraid I don''t buy the argument that Butterworth or Chippy can step up and improve things, because they have been manning the ship as it has sunk without producing any discernible improvement.We need a new face untainted by the failures of this, or indeed the last few, seasons.

The board needs to go, but a replacement must be found. I''m sure even the most blinkered believers in Peter Cullum must accept that now we are down  he must make his move if he ever intends to. The club is at a low ebb, Delia knows that the majority want her out, and the time is ripe. We will see.

So, finally, where does this leave us, the fans? Speaking for myself, I love going to the games, even though I''ve watched some dross this year, and every game entails a 90 mile round trip (nothing to what some of you do, I know). I love chatting with fellow fans, the walk to the ground and the match day atmosphere, though not the standard of football we have been served in recent years. Would I sacrifice that to bring about change? Yes, if I really thought I could make a difference via a short term campaign, but not if I felt I was denying myself something I love to no real purpose over a longer period. .

If we are to achieve anything as fans, we will do so only by achieving a consensus . To do that we need a fulcrum to rally  around. I think that you can discount Smudger, whose pantomime villain act has alienated many who might otherwise have joined him. The obvious body would by NCISA, but whether it has sufficient membership numbers, the willingness to be a true voice of the fans, or indeed, whether it believes that the majority of fans want change are all open to debate. Maybe we can create something ourselves, but not while we''re all trying to score points off each other. I could no more give up supporting City than I could breathing, but that doesn''t mean that I accept the current regime.The status quo is no longer an acceptable option. However, I would say that if any potential new owner was relying on us to force the club into administration to get them the best possible deal then I would see them as no more acceptable as guardians of my club than the current bunch of clowns.

As I said, I don''t have the answers, but I just needed to get that off my chest!

 

[Mister Chops 7]

Slightly rambling response in reply, Beau, but a good post.With the "I told you so" brigade, I find it difficult to fathom this logic: they are "better" fans than the people who buy tickets or go to games because they are not putting their money into the club they claim to support... not raising their voices from the terraces ... not showing their support for the club in any way...and the fans who do spend money, show up and cheer the team on are lesser supporters than those who don''t.  It''s crazy.A club you support isn''t an affectation.  It''s not a hobby you turn off and on.  It''s something that''s part of your life.  Players, Managers, Boards of Directors come and go, many in each of our lifetimes.  We will all disagree about certain things - I think Otsemobor is dreadful, Croft has no end product, Gunn is the wrong manager, Delia Smith is less than honest and David Marshall is a decent ''keeper.  Any other fan may have any other opinion on any of those matters.  However, over and above all this small stuff, our support for the club is the thing which should unite us.   Especially now, given where we are.  We need to stop this small scale squabbling and front up to the club and demand better.  I''m sorry, but we do deserve better.  Three seasons of progressively increasing mediocrity ending in a 50 year low point is a shameful return on 19000 season tickets and crowds of 25000.Yes, we need a focal point.  I don''t think NCISA is the vehicle, but I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA.  Surely the time is right?  If not now, then when exactly?  How much more will we take?

[Jim Smith 2,610]

Beausant - you and I may have locked horn a couple of times over the Cullum episode (and we may never agree on what happened there) but I agree with your outpouring here. Whatever happens this is not a time for the fans to start falling out If we are going to rebuild and come back stronger then we need to be united behind what is going to be a young team next season. If there was one, tiny, tiny positive to come out of yesterday it is in my view that we were so totally and utterly awful that there was no infighting amongst the fans and no slagging each other off for being pro or anti delia etc. We were all there and we all had one thing in common.. We all love our club and we have all been massively let down by virtually everyone involved with it over the last 5 years!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

Beausant - you and I may have locked horn a couple of times over the Cullum episode (and we may never agree on what happened there) but I agree with your outpouring here. Whatever happens this is not a time for the fans to start falling out If we are going to rebuild and come back stronger then we need to be united behind what is going to be a young team next season. If there was one, tiny, tiny positive to come out of yesterday it is in my view that we were so totally and utterly awful that there was no infighting amongst the fans and no slagging each other off for being pro or anti delia etc. We were all there and we all had one thing in common.. We all love our club and we have all been massively let down by virtually everyone involved with it over the last 5 years!

[/quote]

 

Couldn''t agree more Jim. At the end of the day I see no point in coming on a forum and expecting everyone to agree with you, but that''s healthy. What gets me are the dogmatists who won''t try to construct arguments, but simply resort to insults and categorisation (eg sheep, deliarites etc).That''s not to say that I never hit back, but I have very respect for posters like you who will actually debate things without abuse.Although we disagree on Cullum, I suspect we''d agree on many things.

Mister C also hits the nail on the head regarding, the whole "I''m a true supporter because I''ve not been near the ground for three years, even though it hasn''t resulted in a single thing changing"  nonsense. We can only make change happen by fighting together, not against one another.

[PurpleCanary 6,384]

Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.

[JJ 0]

Some good posts on here.

Yesterday was actually quite cathartic.  The discontent coming from the fans was not only from the majority but from a large set of fans who, by and large, had applied for tickets.  That means supporters who attend regularly rather than glory hunt.  People who have seen us reach dizzy heights and plumb the depths.  It was from a large set of hardcore fans and I felt pleased that people actually let their feelings known rather than sit and take it (like we did at Fulham - and I''ll hold my hands up and say I was one of them).

Chops comment about a focal point is spot on.  The fans are missing a voice, or an organisation and now is the time they need it more than ever.  It doesn''t have to disrupt the team - we all want to go back up as soon as possible - but its only right that we have a genuine platform for our views and input during this turbulent time at our club.

 

[astrodyne 0]

So why don''t we join NICSA enmasse? It seems to be democratic and a viable mouthpiece.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.

I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.[/quote]

 

We don''t disagree PC, I was just trying to avoid being immediately dismissed as a pro boarder (based on the normal ineffable logic employed by the Smudger clones)!

As you say,such an action would be beyond the pale( although someone will no doubt seek to justify it on the grounds of "brilliant business acumen" or some such buzz phrase).

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.

I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.[/quote]

Purple - I agree with this is well. There is however a difference between someone who deliberately waits for us to go into administration and someone who has no choice because their initial approaches are rebuffed by the owners!

Beausant - re the fans staying away point I can see both sides of the argument to be honest and think people are entitled to do as they see fit. I did not renew my season ticket before the first deadline because I feared if we all renewed the board would again see that as an endorsement and would be under little or no pressure to act. I mistakenly thought many others would do the same and we could exert some real pressure. I was wrong and my protest has now proven to be possibly the worst pretest ever as I bottled it before the last deadline and renewed my season ticket thus paying £50 more! At the end of the day watching norwich is what i do and I did not want to deny myself that "pleasure" through a gesture that in isolation was not going to make any real difference. however I fully understand why some people feel that way and are not renewing and fair play to them. It is one of the few things the board takes notice if if enough people do it. The immediate sacking fo Roeder after the crowd at the Charlton game gave them a glimpse of the future shows that!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="astrodyne"]So why don''t we join NICSA enmasse? It seems to be democratic and a viable mouthpiece.
[/quote]

 

I think it fits the bill perfectly Astro. It''s easy to join (I''m already a member) and costs peanuts, as well as being recognised by the club.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.[/quote]i would suggest PC that the moment has long passed since when Naarwich City can be choosy about its future owners...we have been relegated into the third tier which will naturally entice out the preditors to pick over the remains...however - lets be clear - the current economic situation means only the credit worthy can apply - so only a rich punter or consortium with the necessary collaterols can afford to buy NCFC and take over the clubs debt in the process (or if they are rich enough pay off the debt)...by definition - this means the next owner of NCFC will be financially watertight - enough to satisfy the board or an administrator...maybe its time you re-evaluated your stance to take account of the change in our circumstances???for me - any suga daddy will do...

[Canary02 III 0]

Great post Beau. Totally agree as you can see from my post "lets pull the fence down" which I was probably typing at the same time as you were typing this one (not the first time we''ve done that I think!).

I''m going to look into signing up for NCISA. However we may actually be discussing the issue on the very forum that holds most sway. When you think of how often Archant quotes this message board and how many views they influence, maybe with the pace of change in the world and the instant updating, this is a better vehicle than NCISA?

[PurpleCanary 6,384]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.[/quote]

Purple - I agree with this is well. There is however a difference between someone who deliberately waits for us to go into administration and someone who has no choice because their initial approaches are rebuffed by the owners!

[/quote]Now, now, Jim! You''re trying to drag this on to Cullumgate, you naughty person, you!

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Beauseant, I agree with most of that, and disagree on one point. You say you would regard a would-be owner who had been counting on administration to get the club on the cheap as no better than the current owners.

I would regard any such would-be owner as totally unacceptable. I have my criticisms of the current owners, but to stand by and let the club go into administration and then act would be a managerial crime worse than any they have committed.[/quote]

Purple - I agree with this is well. There is however a difference between someone who deliberately waits for us to go into administration and someone who has no choice because their initial approaches are rebuffed by the owners!

[/quote]

Now, now, Jim! You''re trying to drag this on to Cullumgate, you naughty person, you![/quote]

 

I''m honestly not - am just pointing out there is a distinction!

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Canary02 III"]

Great post Beau. Totally agree as you can see from my post "lets pull the fence down" which I was probably typing at the same time as you were typing this one (not the first time we''ve done that I think!).

I''m going to look into signing up for NCISA. However we may actually be discussing the issue on the very forum that holds most sway. When you think of how often Archant quotes this message board and how many views they influence, maybe with the pace of change in the world and the instant updating, this is a better vehicle than NCISA?

[/quote]

 

As Mister Chops says, the time is right, but if we are to produce real pressure we have to have a united front. I don''t care what vehicle is used, as long as its effective, but I''m sick to the stomach of people being ripped to pieces on here because they profess continued and undying loyalty to the CLUB. Not the board,  not the current squad, not Bryan Gunn, but Norwich City itself. When exactly did that become a crime? And if it is one, then I have to confess I''m guilty as hell.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

So it''s happened at last. We are dropping to our lowest level in nearly half a century and I''m still trying to work out how I feel. To be honest I''ve been preparing for this day since the Coventry game, because I just couldn''t see the players mustering the guts and fight to get us out of it. While Barnsley''s players stood up to be counted our mob simply stood up and asked to be excused. Now it''s happened, I feel strangely detached, because I have found it harder and harder as the season has worn on to feel any sort of attachment to those representing our club on the pitch.

Inevitably today has seen insults flying around like pollen in the hayfever season because we all want to hit out at something. Whilst the board are most people''s favourites (mine included) Gunn, Cullum and fellow fans have all been targets. The "I told you so" brigade are out in force (presumably they were so busy typing vitriol about the fellow fans they so abhor that they forgot to go to Carrow Road and protest this afternoon), and there are lots of calls to protest/ return season tickets/boycott games and so on. At the end of the day I respect anything that any true City fan decides to do, because I sure as hell haven''t got any answers. My only hope is that now we have gone down something will happen. Unfortunately, the early signs aren''t good, but time will tell. While the division drop should make the value of the shares more negotiable, the loss of income will mean that any buyer will need to dig deeper to service the loans and to replace ( I suspect) a large proportion of the playing staff, although one hopes that the like of Clingan will generate some much needed revenue, although whether this finds it''s way into the playing budget remains to be seen. Certainly there can be no ongoing justification for a CEO earning nearly £200K pa.

As  for the manager''s position, I have been against Gunn''s appointment from day one, and do not see how we can progress if he stays in post. I''m afraid I don''t buy the argument that Butterworth or Chippy can step up and improve things, because they have been manning the ship as it has sunk without producing any discernible improvement.We need a new face untainted by the failures of this, or indeed the last few, seasons.

The board needs to go, but a replacement must be found. I''m sure even the most blinkered believers in Peter Cullum must accept that now we are down  he must make his move if he ever intends to. The club is at a low ebb, Delia knows that the majority want her out, and the time is ripe. We will see.

So, finally, where does this leave us, the fans? Speaking for myself, I love going to the games, even though I''ve watched some dross this year, and every game entails a 90 mile round trip (nothing to what some of you do, I know). I love chatting with fellow fans, the walk to the ground and the match day atmosphere, though not the standard of football we have been served in recent years. Would I sacrifice that to bring about change? Yes, if I really thought I could make a difference via a short term campaign, but not if I felt I was denying myself something I love to no real purpose over a longer period. .

If we are to achieve anything as fans, we will do so only by achieving a consensus . To do that we need a fulcrum to rally  around. I think that you can discount Smudger, whose pantomime villain act has alienated many who might otherwise have joined him. The obvious body would by NCISA, but whether it has sufficient membership numbers, the willingness to be a true voice of the fans, or indeed, whether it believes that the majority of fans want change are all open to debate. Maybe we can create something ourselves, but not while we''re all trying to score points off each other. I could no more give up supporting City than I could breathing, but that doesn''t mean that I accept the current regime.The status quo is no longer an acceptable option. However, I would say that if any potential new owner was relying on us to force the club into administration to get them the best possible deal then I would see them as no more acceptable as guardians of my club than the current bunch of clowns.

As I said, I don''t have the answers, but I just needed to get that off my chest!

 

[/quote]agree with most of that beau...but in our current posi - how much would you pay for NCFC???unless the board is prepared to sell for a peppercorn amount in my view (like wolves owner did 18 months ago) - i can only see the decline continuing - ending possibly in admin...so - lets drop all the new owner vetting BS - if a credit worthy suga daddy or consortium comes along - prepared to pay the current market value - then that will do for me...as soton is finding out - admin will pull plenty of suitors into the market - but clearly - as jack heywood believed - it was best to sell for a small amount to the right owner,,,and from a position of strength...

[Canary02 III 0]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Canary02 III"]

Great post Beau. Totally agree as you can see from my post "lets pull the fence down" which I was probably typing at the same time as you were typing this one (not the first time we''ve done that I think!).

I''m going to look into signing up for NCISA. However we may actually be discussing the issue on the very forum that holds most sway. When you think of how often Archant quotes this message board and how many views they influence, maybe with the pace of change in the world and the instant updating, this is a better vehicle than NCISA?

[/quote]

 

As Mister Chops says, the time is right, but if we are to produce real pressure we have to have a united front. I don''t care what vehicle is used, as long as its effective, but I''m sick to the stomach of people being ripped to pieces on here because they profess continued and undying loyalty to the CLUB. Not the board,  not the current squad, not Bryan Gunn, but Norwich City itself. When exactly did that become a crime? And if it is one, then I have to confess I''m guilty as hell.

[/quote]

Absolutely. It''s ironic that when you speak to most people who support the club in person the consensus is generally very similar but as soon as it appears on this forum it gets polarised. Maybe this isn''t the best vehicle after all!

 

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

[quote]With the "I told you so" brigade, I find it difficult to fathom this logic: they are "better" fans than the people who buy tickets or go to games because they are not putting their money into the club they claim to support... not raising their voices from the terraces ... not showing their support for the club in any way...

and the fans who do spend money, show up and cheer the team on are lesser supporters than those who don''t.  It''s crazy.[/quote]

I think the point is by going to games you are effectively handing the board money to squander time and time again. By not going they don''t get the opportunity. Now you might say "but you''re starving the club of income", well the board don''t spend any of it wisely so technically they''re the ones who are starving the club by not investing in the right place anyway. Yes its hurts to take this course of action but if enough people boycotted just a few games (at most) it would only last a very short time before the message was accepted and change would occur. Would the board want to see empty seats and a news report about it on national television? Would they risk such a boycott to be extended and cause the club significant damage in the long run? I guess that depends just how much they really do care about the club.

[Metatron 0]

Interesting points all round.

Mr Chops states "I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA."

The point is that NCISA were not the organisers of the WO ''campaign''. At one point they organised the St Andrews Hall meeting but the main WO website, peaceful protests, car stickers, flyers and final-day ''red cards'' were all organised by a small group of fans who decided to get out from behind their keyboards and do something.

Whether you agree with their actions and the outcome or not, it was done without NCISA''s help or guidance.

This time round? Smudger and Cluck''s online personas have alienated so many potential supporters by their use of the terms ''sheep'' and ''idiots'' and the implication that anyone NOT boycotting games is somehow a lesser fan, mean that they will be fighting an uphill battle to organise themselves into doing anything much at all.

As for NCISA taking any ''action'', you would need to join en masse and set about getting yourselves elected to the committee and maybe the position of chairman.

From what I read on here, Mr Chops in particular seems like an excellent candidate to stand up and be counted!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Metatron"]Interesting points all round.

Mr Chops states "I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA."

The point is that NCISA were not the organisers of the WO ''campaign''. At one point they organised the St Andrews Hall meeting but the main WO website, peaceful protests, car stickers, flyers and final-day ''red cards'' were all organised by a small group of fans who decided to get out from behind their keyboards and do something. [/quote]I was not aware of that, thanks for straightening that out.

[The Butler 0]

Evening Beau, fully agree with your sentiments. I to have been expecting this to happen, I just don''t know why it has taken 4 years.

As I said the other day a numb feeling but not the "saddness" as we all new it was coming.

Gunn must not be appointed manager, I like you did not want him from the start, a nice guy but no experience or coaching ability.

There are several of us "moderates" attempting to "use" NCISA as the vehicle to get things moving.

Tilly is well aware that NCISA is really the only organisation in a position to bring all sides to battle the board.

Most of the comittee are in favour of change and an increase in membership might just swing the opinion to a more militant fashion.

It would not need to be a militant take over as they are already personally in favour. I am sure both Tilly and Kathy would confirm that themselves.

Time must now not be wasted further or again we will be to late to stop the pair that control our club taking 18,000 ticket sales as a gesture that we all agree with them.

Crocodile tears by DS yesterday must have no effect, or was it tears that the value of their shares is slowly becoming what they said they wanted.

NIL DESPERANDUM

[. 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Slightly rambling response in reply, Beau, but a good post.

With the "I told you so" brigade, I find it difficult to fathom this logic: they are "better" fans than the people who buy tickets or go to games because they are not putting their money into the club they claim to support... not raising their voices from the terraces ... not showing their support for the club in any way...

and the fans who do spend money, show up and cheer the team on are lesser supporters than those who don''t.  It''s crazy.

A club you support isn''t an affectation.  It''s not a hobby you turn off and on.  It''s something that''s part of your life.  Players, Managers, Boards of Directors come and go, many in each of our lifetimes.  We will all disagree about certain things - I think Otsemobor is dreadful, Croft has no end product, Gunn is the wrong manager, Delia Smith is less than honest and David Marshall is a decent ''keeper.  Any other fan may have any other opinion on any of those matters.  However, over and above all this small stuff, our support for the club is the thing which should unite us.   Especially now, given where we are.  We need to stop this small scale squabbling and front up to the club and demand better.  I''m sorry, but we do deserve better.  Three seasons of progressively increasing mediocrity ending in a 50 year low point is a shameful return on 19000 season tickets and crowds of 25000.

Yes, we need a focal point.  I don''t think NCISA is the vehicle, but I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA.  Surely the time is right?  If not now, then when exactly?  How much more will we take?

[/quote]

You won''t see anywhere on here where I state I told you so..... but of course I did.

It''s hardly my fault if so many of you had the perception on a jellyfish........

[Barclay_Boy 0]

brilliant post Beauseant, and yes I think it''s frustration that has got us at each other''s throats, at least verbally.

I think nearly everyone can agree on the following though -

 

We need a new Board, one that has the ability to support the team financially, at least to put us in the upper half ot the Football Championship.

We need an experienced Manager, with the ability to motivate players and spot a bargain in the transfer market.

We need a new CEO, hopefully one that won''t prove so irritating to so many of us, and on less salary as well!

We need future transparency and honesty in communications from Carrow Rd, so we know what''s going on.

I think it''s difficult to start something from scratch, so perhaps the NCISA is the way to go, I''m not a member at the moment, and if it''s not doing what we want then it''s up to enough of us to become members to change it from within, that''s what I intend to do.

We somehow need to make the outside football world aware of our potential, right now we have more season ticket holders than the vast majority of other English clubs, and that''s against the backdrop of the absolute rubbish we''ve been watching this season! I am not convinced that enough potential investors realise what a loyal fan base we have.

 

Completely mad idea, but in the absence of anything else I will chuck it in and get destroyed for it. Through NCISA ( or set up a fans group if they won''t do it) we take a full page advert out in one of the popular national daily papers, pleading for someone to come and save/buy/takeover the club. Paid for by the fans, funds gathered through donations collected by NCISA. Local business people may be prepared to chip in as well. Would possibly get A LOT of publicity.

Even those fans who refuse to go to watch football under the current regime could contribute with a clear concience, as they would be genuinly attempting to do something to bring about change. Would not a potential investor be impressed at supporters so loyal that they would be prepared to pay for such an ad?

 Cam could tell us how much it would cost, and if it''s feasible I will chuck in the first £100, because I do not want to see things continue as they are.

Probably rubbish but am all out of other ideas at present.

 

 

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

As Mister Chops says, the time is right, but if we are to produce real pressure we have to have a united front. I don''t care what vehicle is used, as long as its effective, but I''m sick to the stomach of people being ripped to pieces on here because they profess continued and undying loyalty to the CLUB. Not the board,  not the current squad, not Bryan Gunn, but Norwich City itself. When exactly did that become a crime? And if it is one, then I have to confess I''m guilty as hell.

[/quote]

The issue of who''s loyal and who''s not has arisen because it''s the club''s main marketing strategy - "buy a season ticket and you''re a loyal fan".  But what they mean by loyalty is the same thing Sainsbury''s mean when they call me a loyal customer because that''s where I do my weekly shop.  What football fans mean by loyalty is something very different.  Loyalty to your club assumes that you won''t go and shop elsewhere if you''re not satisfied, but in return they will focus all their energy on running a club that takes pride in punching its weight on the field of play.  If they don''t keep their side of the bargain the deal''s off and staying away is a genuine option.   

For years on this forum, it was taken as read that anyone who didn''t have a season ticket was "not a true fan" who didn''t even have a right to express an opinion and should f*** off and support someone else.  Now some searching questions are being asked of those who thought they could claim the moral high ground simplying by renewing their season tickets year after year.  No one''s saying they''re not loyal, but there''s more to loyalty than that and those who boycott are no less loyal than they are.

But this isn''t a judgement against any particular group of fans so much as a judgement against the board for putting us in this position in the first place.  Any fan has a basic right to expect their club to punch its weight, it shouldn''t even be an issue.  Under the present regime our club doesn''t look as though it even wants to try.  That''s where we should focus our attention, not on who is and who isn''t a loyal fan.  Apart from anything else, the board must love it when we fight among ourselves instead of fingering the real culprits.

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,596]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Slightly rambling response in reply, Beau, but a good post.

With the "I told you so" brigade, I find it difficult to fathom this logic: they are "better" fans than the people who buy tickets or go to games because they are not putting their money into the club they claim to support... not raising their voices from the terraces ... not showing their support for the club in any way...

and the fans who do spend money, show up and cheer the team on are lesser supporters than those who don''t.  It''s crazy.

A club you support isn''t an affectation.  It''s not a hobby you turn off and on.  It''s something that''s part of your life.  Players, Managers, Boards of Directors come and go, many in each of our lifetimes.  We will all disagree about certain things - I think Otsemobor is dreadful, Croft has no end product, Gunn is the wrong manager, Delia Smith is less than honest and David Marshall is a decent ''keeper.  Any other fan may have any other opinion on any of those matters.  However, over and above all this small stuff, our support for the club is the thing which should unite us.   Especially now, given where we are.  We need to stop this small scale squabbling and front up to the club and demand better.  I''m sorry, but we do deserve better.  Three seasons of progressively increasing mediocrity ending in a 50 year low point is a shameful return on 19000 season tickets and crowds of 25000.

Yes, we need a focal point.  I don''t think NCISA is the vehicle, but I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA.  Surely the time is right?  If not now, then when exactly?  How much more will we take?

[/quote]

You won''t see anywhere on here where I state I told you so..... but of course I did.

It''s hardly my fault if so many of you had the perception on a jellyfish........

[/quote]

Why do you think Mr Chops includes you in the '''' I told you so " brigade Cluck ?

I can''t see your name mentioned at all.

But if the cap fits ..........

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

Completely mad idea, but in the absence of anything else I will chuck it in and get destroyed for it. Through NCISA ( or set up a fans group if they won''t do it) we take a full page advert out in one of the popular national daily papers, pleading for someone to come and save/buy/takeover the club. Paid for by the fans, funds gathered through donations collected by NCISA. Local business people may be prepared to chip in as well. Would possibly get A LOT of publicity.

Even those fans who refuse to go to watch football under the current regime could contribute with a clear concience, as they would be genuinly attempting to do something to bring about change. Would not a potential investor be impressed at supporters so loyal that they would be prepared to pay for such an ad?

 Cam could tell us how much it would cost, and if it''s feasible I will chuck in the first £100, because I do not want to see things continue as they are.

Probably rubbish but am all out of other ideas at present.

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

Not a mad idea at all, BB. It would garner some great publicity. I''d happily match you £100.

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]Slightly rambling response in reply, Beau, but a good post.

With the "I told you so" brigade, I find it difficult to fathom this logic: they are "better" fans than the people who buy tickets or go to games because they are not putting their money into the club they claim to support... not raising their voices from the terraces ... not showing their support for the club in any way...

and the fans who do spend money, show up and cheer the team on are lesser supporters than those who don''t.  It''s crazy.

A club you support isn''t an affectation.  It''s not a hobby you turn off and on.  It''s something that''s part of your life.  Players, Managers, Boards of Directors come and go, many in each of our lifetimes.  We will all disagree about certain things - I think Otsemobor is dreadful, Croft has no end product, Gunn is the wrong manager, Delia Smith is less than honest and David Marshall is a decent ''keeper.  Any other fan may have any other opinion on any of those matters.  However, over and above all this small stuff, our support for the club is the thing which should unite us.   Especially now, given where we are.  We need to stop this small scale squabbling and front up to the club and demand better.  I''m sorry, but we do deserve better.  Three seasons of progressively increasing mediocrity ending in a 50 year low point is a shameful return on 19000 season tickets and crowds of 25000.

Yes, we need a focal point.  I don''t think NCISA is the vehicle, but I am amazed that three years ago we could have an organised and passionate Worthy Out campaign including St Andrews Hall meetings, and yet here we are in a far worse position and nothing is being organised by NCISA.  Surely the time is right?  If not now, then when exactly?  How much more will we take?

[/quote]

You won''t see anywhere on here where I state I told you so..... but of course I did.

It''s hardly my fault if so many of you had the perception on a jellyfish........

[/quote]

http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1531181/ShowPost.aspx

Now get off home and pluck yourself.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

Completely mad idea, but in the absence of anything else I will chuck it in and get destroyed for it. Through NCISA ( or set up a fans group if they won''t do it) we take a full page advert out in one of the popular national daily papers, pleading for someone to come and save/buy/takeover the club. Paid for by the fans, funds gathered through donations collected by NCISA. Local business people may be prepared to chip in as well. Would possibly get A LOT of publicity.

Even those fans who refuse to go to watch football under the current regime could contribute with a clear concience, as they would be genuinly attempting to do something to bring about change. Would not a potential investor be impressed at supporters so loyal that they would be prepared to pay for such an ad?

 Cam could tell us how much it would cost, and if it''s feasible I will chuck in the first £100, because I do not want to see things continue as they are.

Probably rubbish but am all out of other ideas at present.

[/quote]

 

Not a mad idea at all, BB. It would garner some great publicity. I''d happily match you £100.

[/quote]

I can afford £50

 

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="Beauseant"][quote user="Barclay_Boy"]

Completely mad idea, but in the absence of anything else I will chuck it in and get destroyed for it. Through NCISA ( or set up a fans group if they won''t do it) we take a full page advert out in one of the popular national daily papers, pleading for someone to come and save/buy/takeover the club. Paid for by the fans, funds gathered through donations collected by NCISA. Local business people may be prepared to chip in as well. Would possibly get A LOT of publicity.

Even those fans who refuse to go to watch football under the current regime could contribute with a clear concience, as they would be genuinly attempting to do something to bring about change. Would not a potential investor be impressed at supporters so loyal that they would be prepared to pay for such an ad?

 Cam could tell us how much it would cost, and if it''s feasible I will chuck in the first £100, because I do not want to see things continue as they are.

Probably rubbish but am all out of other ideas at present.

[/quote]

 

Not a mad idea at all, BB. It would garner some great publicity. I''d happily match you £100.

[/quote]

I can afford £50

 

[/quote]great idea - but cos my 4 timer went west yesterday - i could only afford a tenner[:D][:D][:D]

[gazzathegreat 0]

Beau and Chops, great hard hitting posts, and very apt on this oh so depressing of days. I joined the NCISA to become part of an organisation which would afford all fans fed up to the back teeth of the spin machine at Carrow Road, a real alternative.

I have just returned from an Open Day like none I have ever attended. The forum had to be witnessed to be believed, some real stick issued out to the board members, Doncaster and Munby, and also some to Bryan Gunn also. Some frank and very passionate views were made. Of course there are still a lot of fans who really will follow the board''s policy to the edge of a cliff and beyond, but I sense that there are now sufficient amounts of people seeking an alternative voice and a body to campaign for change. That''s the reason I joined the committee and I hope to encourage others to do the same.

I have had far more than I can take of the same old same old excuses and platitudes. It''s time for the fans who don''t support the boards'' policies to stand up and counter them. If enough of us do it it can only be good for the fans out there who feel at present there is nothing or no one to stand up for their views.

I stress this is just my view and not NCISA policy, but would encourage all of you who do want change where it really counts at NCFC to put across your views within NCISA. Strength in numbers and all that.