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I suggest someone sends Doncaster a dictionary open at the appropriate page - Ambition = An eager or strong desire to achieve something -

Either that or someone buy him today''s newspaper and show him who the scum have appointed as manager!

By the end of next season there will be at least two divisions between us...and possibly even three!

I really do wonder whether i can be bothered with the lot of them anymore![A]

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Hmm I have just posted something similare to Zema Tendons post.... here goes:

"an earnest desire for some type of achievement or distinction, as power, honor, fame, or wealth, and the willingness to strive for its attainment"

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Our whole regime is bankrupt, both in terms of money and ideas.

Doncaster is hanging on until he can jump ship to the FA/FL full-time, while our owner MWJ has even said "what''s the point in having a plan?" FFS.

They should have begged Cullum to take over this club. They didn''t. Now WE pay the price.

I seriously hope Mr Doncaster does not think he is worth £179,000 a year in L1.

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Why do people constantly suggest that administration is the answer?

This would not be good for the club in any way and to suggest it would inflict only short term pain is a little naive.

Like you I am very frustrated with the club and think  that we need new blood in the boardroom, but not at the risk of compromising our long term financial security.  Debts of £20m are preferable to administration as think this would see our club plummet down the leagues.

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[quote user="rjwc22"]

Why do people constantly suggest that administration is the answer?

This would not be good for the club in any way and to suggest it would inflict only short term pain is a little naive.

Like you I am very frustrated with the club and think  that we need new blood in the boardroom, but not at the risk of compromising our long term financial security.  Debts of £20m are preferable to administration as think this would see our club plummet down the leagues.

[/quote]

There is a good chance we will plummett down the leagues anyway rjwc, at least the administration route would eneable us to substatially reduce the debt. Hopefully someone would then buy the club for a quid and we''d get rid of the board. Not saying it''s ideal but as things are at the moment we have a clueless penniless board and are in dire need of investment for the playing squad, without that investment there is a real chance that we could slip even lower down the ladder.

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Administration would screw over all the local businesses we owe money to, cause all jobs deemed less than essential to the day to day running of the club to go at CR and would offer no guarantee as to the type of owner we might get at the end.

We could end up with someone with less money or football knowledge than the current board, or the same board we have now under a new entity.  Also quite possible that whoever buys the club has to get finance to complete the deal and then saddles the club with this additional debt (a la Man Utd, liverpool etc)

Of course there is a risk we are going down this season and who knows what that will mean to the club''s long term future but cannot see that these risks are as greivous as those posed by administration.

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[quote user="rjwc22"]

Administration would screw over all the local businesses we owe money to, cause all jobs deemed less than essential to the day to day running of the club to go at CR and would offer no guarantee as to the type of owner we might get at the end.

We could end up with someone with less money or football knowledge than the current board, or the same board we have now under a new entity.  Also quite possible that whoever buys the club has to get finance to complete the deal and then saddles the club with this additional debt (a la Man Utd, liverpool etc)

Of course there is a risk we are going down this season and who knows what that will mean to the club''s long term future but cannot see that these risks are as greivous as those posed by administration.

[/quote]

We will never go into administration, fact. But we will maintain the debt by just paying off the interest every year. Plus, losing 10 points will not help us at all!

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[quote user="rjwc22"]

Administration would screw over all the local businesses we owe money to, cause all jobs deemed less than essential to the day to day running of the club to go at CR and would offer no guarantee as to the type of owner we might get at the end.

We could end up with someone with less money or football knowledge than the current board, or the same board we have now under a new entity.  Also quite possible that whoever buys the club has to get finance to complete the deal and then saddles the club with this additional debt (a la Man Utd, liverpool etc)

Of course there is a risk we are going down this season and who knows what that will mean to the club''s long term future but cannot see that these risks are as greivous as those posed by administration.

[/quote]

I don''t actually think it''s possible to have anyone with less football knowledge than the current board.

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We best get used to our local derbys being against Colchester and Southend as it will be a long time before we play Ipshi*e again!

As to administration, we have to pay another £2.5 million in loan repayment in December 2010. That is when the crunch will come!

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

Administration anyone?  Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[/quote]

I would welcome admin with open arms, anything, to get shot of the cook.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="rjwc22"]

Administration would screw over all the local businesses we owe money to, cause all jobs deemed less than essential to the day to day running of the club to go at CR and would offer no guarantee as to the type of owner we might get at the end.

We could end up with someone with less money or football knowledge than the current board, or the same board we have now under a new entity.  Also quite possible that whoever buys the club has to get finance to complete the deal and then saddles the club with this additional debt (a la Man Utd, liverpool etc)

Of course there is a risk we are going down this season and who knows what that will mean to the club''s long term future but cannot see that these risks are as greivous as those posed by administration.

[/quote]

I don''t actually think it''s possible to have anyone with less football knowledge than the current board.

[/quote]

Fair point!

Would you please strike my previous comment as to the board from the record!

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There isn`t too much evidence that clubs which go into administration "plummet down the leagues", particularly those with a large fanbase such as ourselves. 

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]There isn`t too much evidence that clubs which go into administration "plummet down the leagues", particularly those with a large fanbase such as ourselves. [/quote]

Like Leeds Utd you mean?

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]There isn`t too much evidence that clubs which go into administration "plummet down the leagues", particularly those with a large fanbase such as ourselves. [/quote]

How many have stormed up the league though Mr Carrow. Leicester cheated their way back to the Premiership but didn''t last long. How many clubs in the Premiership have been in administration? I''m not trying to prove anything, it''s a genuine question that I don''t know the answer to. I''d be interested to know though.

 

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[quote user="rjwc22"]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]There isn`t too much evidence that clubs which go into administration "plummet down the leagues", particularly those with a large fanbase such as ourselves. [/quote]

Like Leeds Utd you mean?

[/quote]

And who else?  They could well be in a better position than us in every way next season.

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I don`t know nutty.  I don`t think anyone thinks that if we go into admin. we`ll storm up the league, rather that in our current position it may not be the disaster some people imply and it may even lead to competent people running our club again and we can start looking upwards rather than downwards for a change.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]I don`t know nutty.  I don`t think anyone thinks that if we go into admin. we`ll storm up the league, rather that in our current position it may not be the disaster some people imply and it may even lead to competent people running our club again and we can start looking upwards rather than downwards for a change.[/quote]

I think this "administration would be a good thing" is about as accurate as the "city fans are spineless" jibes. In point of fact I think that anyone who believes either must have kangaroos loose in the top paddock! Scum and Leicester tried to cheat their way back and still failed. Now the rules are changed. I wish I knew where to look to find out the answer to my question. Maybe you or Tangie could take a break from the accounts for a little while and help?

 

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For the poster "Administration is a good thing". NO.  The real problem longer term (putting aside the number of people who lose out at the time) is that by terms of the CVA for the next 3 years the organisation is severely restricted in what it can and cannot do. For instance no trading bank overdrafts and all cash flow has to be financed in advance - so if you think there is no ambition now, after administartion you tread water waiting for another ME to march in.  Not an ideal thing at any time, let alone with the current economic climate.  AS I said a couple of months ago, there is no way that Delia will allow it to happen - it would only be if you become insolvent and it''s a legal necessity (which is unlikey given the level of season ticket sales).

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[quote]There isn`t too much evidence that clubs which go into administration

"plummet down the leagues", particularly those with a large fanbase

such as ourselves. [/quote]The first half of that sentance is wrong, I suspect you realised this, hence the second half... [;)]  It''s probably fairer to say that neutrals tend not to notice teams "spiralling down the leagues" - it often takes 10 or 15 years for the rot to really set in.Have a quick look at the conference and see how many of these teams have been into administration - I''m fairly sure all of them have at some point in the last 10 years.Cambridge Utd - Narrowly failed to become founder members of the Premier League in 1992 - now in the conference.  Only a 9,000 capacity stadium, so I guess they don''t count eh...Oxford Utd - League cup winners in the 1986s, relegated from Premier league in 1988, now in the conference. Oxford had an attendance of 12,243 for a league 2 match. Oxford United is the best supported club in the Conference National and has had the largest average attendance every year since joining the league.York City - formerly a third / fourth tier team, currently 5th from bottom of the conference.Wrexham - used to be third tier, now 10th in the conference.Torquay Utd - 5th in the conference.Not to mention other clubs who used to be much higher placed, and have had financial trouble...Brighton & Hove Albion - Former FA Cup finalists - now struggling to maintain 3rd tier football, do they have a ground yet ?  Brighton used to average 18,000 attendances in the early 80s, when they were top flight.Bradford City - In the Premiership as recently as 2001, when their attendances ranged from 17 - 22,000 for home matches.  At the end of the first season back in Division One ( 01 / 02), Bradford were placed in administration with debts of nearly £13 million.  Two years later, (03/04) the club suffered a second spell in administration and a second relegation.  Now 11th in the 4th tier of league football.  I''d say that Bradford is getting towards a comparable size, fanbase-wise, to Norwich.Bournemouth - narrowly avoiding a second successive relegation after 2 administration penalties in the last 2 seasons.  4th from bottom of tier 4.Wimbledon - Fa Cup winners, Premiership regulars, administration, name change, and an eventual recovery of sorts to 3rd tier play-off status.  But again, small attendances so they don''t count despite all that lovely TV money.Leicester City - arguably their relegation to third tier occured after mandaric took them over, but they were a prem / champs yo-yo club before they went bust.  And then of course there is Luton.  Won the 1988 league cup, finalists in 1989.  Were in the championship in 2005, now in the conference.  A small club though, 7-9000 average attendance when they were in the championship in 05.

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Administration would probably cause more problems than it solves..because i don''t doubt the ground and training ground are security against the clubs debts. So the club would lose ownership of both!

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Don`t forget Gretna blah.....

None of those clubs are drastically below their natural level, some have simply regained it after a purple patch which nearly all clubs enjoy at some point.  There are plenty of examples of clubs slipping back to their natural level without going into admin.- it`s a fact of football- and several clubs with a similar fanbase to us who have been in admin quite recently yet are doing quite well.  Indeed there is a good chance we will be below all of them next season.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

None of those clubs are drastically below their natural level, some have simply regained it after a purple patch which nearly all clubs enjoy at some point.  There are plenty of examples of clubs slipping back to their natural level without going into admin.- it`s a fact of football- and several clubs with a similar fanbase to us who have been in admin quite recently yet are doing quite well.  Indeed there is a good chance we will be below all of them next season.

[/quote]If, when their club was winning a major trophy or narrowly missing promotion to the top league, you had told a fan of Brighton, Bradford, Oxford, Cambridge or Luton that they would be in the conference or floating just above it in 5, 10, or 20 years time, they would have laughed at you.  As their teams have fallen through the leagues as a result of bad financial management, so people gave up going. People  stop going if the team fails to perform, obviously. But I fail to ssee how going to admin would improve our football.  If Norwich spent 2 or 3 seasons in league 1, the 17,000 season ticket holders would more than likely become 12,000 or 10,000, and may lead to further erosion.[quote]There are plenty of examples of clubs slipping back to their natural level without going into admin.- it`s a fact of football-[/quote]Name them.  I''ll give you a clue (yet again...) - at least 46 clubs in administration since 1992.  There aren''t that many that haven''t gone under at some point, at least not many outside of the Premiership.  It can be disastrous unless someone with bags of money turns up once the debts are written off.  It has taken Bates 2 seasons to try to extricate Leeds from League 1, and that hasn''t worked yet.  The only one in the list above that had no mention of administration when I briefly checked was Oxford Utd, however that must have happened at some point as they were tied up in the whole Maxwell shambles.

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Blah, despite nutty`s customary childish over-reaction i haven`t said that going into admin would be a good thing, but it is an absolute fact that no-one can state that it would sent us plummeting down the leagues as recent evidence shows that similar clubs haven`t.  Also no-one can catagorically state that admin wouldn`t see better owners taking over.  Therefore i stand by my comment that it might not be as disastrous as some like to make out.

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[quote]it is an absolute fact that no-one can state that it would sent us

plummeting down the leagues as recent evidence shows that similar clubs

haven`t.[/quote]...and this recent evidence is ?  I''ve shown you my clubs, and didn''t resort to Gretna - you show me yours.[quote] Also no-one can catagorically state that admin wouldn`t see

better owners taking over.[/quote]Administration isn''t likely even if we go down a league.  What''s the difference in income ?  A couple of million in TV money ?  Players would be cheaper too.  With the season ticket holders we have, we should be able to afford the best team in that league, without administration.  If anything, staying in this league is more likely to cause administration than going down a level - wouldn''t you say ?

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Blah, i thought you were staying out of provoking silly arguments?  Those clubs exist, we both know it (as do plenty of clubs who have been in admin in the top two divisions), and on a lovely day there is absolutely no way i`m getting sucked into another brick-wall butting debate with another of the boards tunnel-visioned egotists.

You`re last paragraph: if you believe that, good luck to you.

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[quote]Blah, i thought you were staying out of provoking silly arguments? 

Those clubs exist, we both know it (as do plenty of clubs who have been

in admin in the top two divisions), and on a lovely day there is

absolutely no way i`m getting sucked into another brick-wall butting

debate with another of the boards tunnel-visioned egotists.[/quote]Takes one to know one, sweetheart - Is there a finer way of saying "can''t be arsed" - I have yet to find one [:)]It was a thought out loud, a question.  Is administration more likely in league 1 or the championship ?  I don''t know.

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Watch it, that`s almost a compliment blah!  [;)]

I think income would drop by at least £3m because of lower tv revenue, the ticket rebate, plus things like clauses in sponsorship contracts, lower corporate interest etc.  As i`m sure you`re aware i don`t think player wages are the biggest issue at the club but if non-player wage costs stay anywhere near the £17m (out of £19m income) they were in `08 then i think admin is a very real prospect if we go down.

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