I clearly do not understand what is going on here. This works
--- include <BOSL2/std.scad> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; myZ = [0, 11, 22]; myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); --- but if I add the "right(1)", below, in myProfs, this fails with a syntax error: --- include <BOSL2/std.scad> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; myZ = [0, 11, 22]; myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) right(1) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); --- If I try wrapping the right() and the xscale() together, as module RightAndXScale(x) right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); then myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) RightAndXScale(x); fails with a syntax error --- and if I try function RightAndXScale(x) right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); then the function fails with a syntax error. _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
The problem is your mixing up the module versions and function versions of
the transformation commands. If you do right(1) without other arguments then it can be a module, in which case you need some geometry next or it can be a function, which returns the transformation matrix that shifts right by 1, in which case you need to do something with it, like perhaps pass it to multmatrix. (But see below.) In your "working" example (which actually doesn't work in the latest BOSL2) you're doing xscale(value, circle(...)); In this code, circle is the functional form of circle supplied by BOSL2. It's giving you a point list which is being passed as the second arg to xscale. To make this work robustly you should change it to xscale(value,p=circle(...)); A new argument was added to xscale (centerpoint) so the second arg changed, and for most of the other transformation functions the position of the point list argument is not fixed. So if you want to add right(1) to this you can do it like this: right(1, p=xscale(value, p=circle(...))); Now that's kind of messy. I recommend only using the "p=" form when you are applying just one transformation. If you want several, it's cleaner to use apply(). If you use a transformation without a point list it gives you the transformation matrix, and apply applies it to a point list, like multmatrix for point lists. So that would look like: apply(right(1)*xscale(x/15), circle(....)); Does that help? You can now stack transformations using multiplication similar to how you do it in plain OpenSCAD. jon_bondy wrote > I clearly do not understand what is going on here. This works > > --- > > include <BOSL2/std.scad> > include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> > include <BOSL2/skin.scad> > > myScale = [1, 2, 4]; > myZ = [0, 11, 22]; > myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) > xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; > > skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); > > --- > > but if I add the "right(1)", below, in myProfs, this fails with a syntax > error: > > --- > > include <BOSL2/std.scad> > include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> > include <BOSL2/skin.scad> > > myScale = [1, 2, 4]; > myZ = [0, 11, 22]; > myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) > right(1) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; > > skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); > > --- > > If I try wrapping the right() and the xscale() together, as > > module RightAndXScale(x) > right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); > > then > > myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) > RightAndXScale(x); > > fails with a syntax error > > --- > > and if I try > > function RightAndXScale(x) > right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); > > then the function fails with a syntax error. > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Excellent explanation! Thanks so much!
Jon On 12/31/2020 2:14 PM, adrianv wrote: > The problem is your mixing up the module versions and function versions of > the transformation commands. > > If you do right(1) without other arguments then it can be a module, in which > case you need some geometry next or it can be a function, which returns the > transformation matrix that shifts right by 1, in which case you need to do > something with it, like perhaps pass it to multmatrix. (But see below.) > > In your "working" example (which actually doesn't work in the latest BOSL2) > you're doing > > xscale(value, circle(...)); > > In this code, circle is the functional form of circle supplied by BOSL2. > It's giving you a point list which is being passed as the second arg to > xscale. To make this work robustly you should change it to > > xscale(value,p=circle(...)); > > A new argument was added to xscale (centerpoint) so the second arg changed, > and for most of the other transformation functions the position of the point > list argument is not fixed. So if you want to add right(1) to this you can > do it like this: > > right(1, p=xscale(value, p=circle(...))); > > Now that's kind of messy. I recommend only using the "p=" form when you are > applying just one transformation. If you want several, it's cleaner to use > apply(). If you use a transformation without a point list it gives you the > transformation matrix, and apply applies it to a point list, like multmatrix > for point lists. So that would look like: > > apply(right(1)*xscale(x/15), circle(....)); > > Does that help? You can now stack transformations using multiplication > similar to how you do it in plain OpenSCAD. > > > jon_bondy wrote >> I clearly do not understand what is going on here. This works >> >> --- >> >> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >> >> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >> >> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> >> --- >> >> but if I add the "right(1)", below, in myProfs, this fails with a syntax >> error: >> >> --- >> >> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >> >> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> right(1) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >> >> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> >> --- >> >> If I try wrapping the right() and the xscale() together, as >> >> module RightAndXScale(x) >> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >> >> then >> >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> RightAndXScale(x); >> >> fails with a syntax error >> >> --- >> >> and if I try >> >> function RightAndXScale(x) >> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >> >> then the function fails with a syntax error. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> Discuss@.openscad >> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by adrianv
So, if I want to do
shell2d(2, p=circle(20)) I am out of luck, because shell2d() only exists as a module and not as a function? And my attempt to convert this into a function function xxx() = shell2d(2) circle(d = 20, $fn = 80); also fails. Is there a way to convert this into a function which returns a point list? Jon On 12/31/2020 2:14 PM, adrianv wrote: > The problem is your mixing up the module versions and function versions of > the transformation commands. > > If you do right(1) without other arguments then it can be a module, in which > case you need some geometry next or it can be a function, which returns the > transformation matrix that shifts right by 1, in which case you need to do > something with it, like perhaps pass it to multmatrix. (But see below.) > > In your "working" example (which actually doesn't work in the latest BOSL2) > you're doing > > xscale(value, circle(...)); > > In this code, circle is the functional form of circle supplied by BOSL2. > It's giving you a point list which is being passed as the second arg to > xscale. To make this work robustly you should change it to > > xscale(value,p=circle(...)); > > A new argument was added to xscale (centerpoint) so the second arg changed, > and for most of the other transformation functions the position of the point > list argument is not fixed. So if you want to add right(1) to this you can > do it like this: > > right(1, p=xscale(value, p=circle(...))); > > Now that's kind of messy. I recommend only using the "p=" form when you are > applying just one transformation. If you want several, it's cleaner to use > apply(). If you use a transformation without a point list it gives you the > transformation matrix, and apply applies it to a point list, like multmatrix > for point lists. So that would look like: > > apply(right(1)*xscale(x/15), circle(....)); > > Does that help? You can now stack transformations using multiplication > similar to how you do it in plain OpenSCAD. > > > jon_bondy wrote >> I clearly do not understand what is going on here. This works >> >> --- >> >> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >> >> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >> >> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> >> --- >> >> but if I add the "right(1)", below, in myProfs, this fails with a syntax >> error: >> >> --- >> >> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >> >> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> right(1) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >> >> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> >> --- >> >> If I try wrapping the right() and the xscale() together, as >> >> module RightAndXScale(x) >> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >> >> then >> >> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >> RightAndXScale(x); >> >> fails with a syntax error >> >> --- >> >> and if I try >> >> function RightAndXScale(x) >> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >> >> then the function fails with a syntax error. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> Discuss@.openscad >> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
What does shell2d actually do when you write shell2d(2) circle(20)? It runs
offset to expand the circle by 2 and then subtracts the original circle. The resulting shell shape has two boundaries, an internal one which is circle(20) and an external one, circle(22). If you're planning to use skin() then you can only have one boundary. (Note that path_sweep and sweep will work on "regions" which can have multiple boundaries, but due to the complexity of point association, skin requires just a single boundary, so it only works on paths.) So the previous question that I'm guessing inspired your question, the poster wanted a shape that wasn't enclosed, like a circle with a slot cut in it. That sort of shape has only one boundary path so you can make it by concating the inside and outside boundaries (one reversed). But assuming you're interested in the two-boundary shape of a tube of some sort, then you'll need to construct the inside and outside separately as 3d objects and then difference them. If you are actually using circles it's easy to construct the outer boundary by changing the radius. If you have in mind something more complex then the way to construct the other boundary is with the offset() function (part of BOSL2) which will take a point list input and produce the offset point list as output. jon_bondy wrote > So, if I want to do > > shell2d(2, p=circle(20)) > > I am out of luck, because shell2d() only exists as a module and not as a > function? > > And my attempt to convert this into a function > > function xxx() = shell2d(2) circle(d = 20, $fn = 80); > > also fails. Is there a way to convert this into a function which > returns a point list? > > Jon > > > On 12/31/2020 2:14 PM, adrianv wrote: >> The problem is your mixing up the module versions and function versions >> of >> the transformation commands. >> >> If you do right(1) without other arguments then it can be a module, in >> which >> case you need some geometry next or it can be a function, which returns >> the >> transformation matrix that shifts right by 1, in which case you need to >> do >> something with it, like perhaps pass it to multmatrix. (But see below.) >> >> In your "working" example (which actually doesn't work in the latest >> BOSL2) >> you're doing >> >> xscale(value, circle(...)); >> >> In this code, circle is the functional form of circle supplied by BOSL2. >> It's giving you a point list which is being passed as the second arg to >> xscale. To make this work robustly you should change it to >> >> xscale(value,p=circle(...)); >> >> A new argument was added to xscale (centerpoint) so the second arg >> changed, >> and for most of the other transformation functions the position of the >> point >> list argument is not fixed. So if you want to add right(1) to this you >> can >> do it like this: >> >> right(1, p=xscale(value, p=circle(...))); >> >> Now that's kind of messy. I recommend only using the "p=" form when you >> are >> applying just one transformation. If you want several, it's cleaner to >> use >> apply(). If you use a transformation without a point list it gives you >> the >> transformation matrix, and apply applies it to a point list, like >> multmatrix >> for point lists. So that would look like: >> >> apply(right(1)*xscale(x/15), circle(....)); >> >> Does that help? You can now stack transformations using multiplication >> similar to how you do it in plain OpenSCAD. >> >> >> jon_bondy wrote >>> I clearly do not understand what is going on here. This works >>> >>> --- >>> >>> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >>> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >>> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >>> >>> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >>> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >>> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >>> xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >>> >>> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >>> >>> --- >>> >>> but if I add the "right(1)", below, in myProfs, this fails with a syntax >>> error: >>> >>> --- >>> >>> include <BOSL2/std.scad> >>> include <BOSL2/rounding.scad> >>> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> >>> >>> myScale = [1, 2, 4]; >>> myZ = [0, 11, 22]; >>> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >>> right(1) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80))]; >>> >>> skin(myProfs, z=myZ, slices=10, method="reindex"); >>> >>> --- >>> >>> If I try wrapping the right() and the xscale() together, as >>> >>> module RightAndXScale(x) >>> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >>> >>> then >>> >>> myProfs = [for (x=[0, 1, 2]) >>> RightAndXScale(x); >>> >>> fails with a syntax error >>> >>> --- >>> >>> and if I try >>> >>> function RightAndXScale(x) >>> right(x) xscale(x/15, circle(d = 15, $fn = 80)); >>> >>> then the function fails with a syntax error. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OpenSCAD mailing list >>> Discuss@.openscad >>> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> > Discuss@.openscad >> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Still flailing around... This works fine: left_half(planar = true) circle(1); This left_half(planar = true, circle(1)); fails with And this module Bowl() { fails with WARNING: Ignoring unknown function
'left_half' in file Spoon.scad, line 134 Why is left_half() recognized as a function in the 2nd example,
but not in the 3rd? At some point, it may be easier for me to just explain what I'm
trying to do, rather than keep beating my head against this. Jon _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
left_half() must be a module in your first two examples. You can only call a function in an expression, modules are statements. On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 14:37, jon <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by jon_bondy
I have this feeling that you're experimenting with different variations but
that you don't understand what's really going on. Revar is trying to write tutorials now for BOSL2, and it would be good if we could understand why you don't understand and what to say to help you (and others) understand better. The tutorials are here: https://github.com/revarbat/BOSL2/wiki/Tutorials and maybe the Paths and Regions tutorial would help? OpenSCAD has modules that create geometry and other modules that operate on geometry. In core OpenSCAD if you invoke circle() it creates 2d geometry. If you give it to linear_extrude as a child then you get a cylinder. It is impossible to get the points out of geometry, so doing more interesting manipulations requires that we work in a different way. To this end, BOSL2 provides function versions of the core geometry modules. They look the same, but what happens depends on context. So with BOSL2 loaded, circle() will sometimes make geometry (in a module context) and sometimes produce a "path" (in a function context). A path is BOSL2 term for an ordered list of points. Operating on paths requires that you use functions, not modules. So this is the difference between newpath=xscale(factor,p=some_path); and xscale(factor) some_geomety(); The former version is passing a path (point list) to a function and getting a new path out. The latter is generating geometry in a module and passing it as a child to xscale, resulting finally in geometry as the result. If you run the first one you won't see anything because no geometry has yet been created. You need to convert the output, newpath, into geometry, perhaps with polygon(newpath); So let's take a look at what you're doing below: left_half(planar=true) circle(1); You've used the core circle module to create geometry and you're giving it as a child to the left_half module which shows just the left part. left_half(planar=true, circle(1)); You're invoking the module left_half. We know it's a module because you didn't assign a return value to something. The circle(1) invocation is the function version of circle, so it produces a path. So you're invoking the module with planar=true and a list of points. But if you check the manual, you'll see that the module version does not accept a path, only two scalars. So you've given invalid input. The error message need to be improved. If you change it to lcirc=left_half(....); then you will get the functional form. However, the functional form of the "half" operators was added recently and appears to be seriously buggy. So for now....don't try to use it. It looks like your version of BOSL2 predates the existence of the functional form of left_half because in your example below you show an error, "unknown function left_half". I think maybe your code would do what you want if you use arc() instead of circle(), since arc() can create a half circle directly. Here's your code with arc inserted. You didn't define wB so I'm not sure what you're after. You might want to explain what you're trying to do as there might possibly be a completely different approach. module Bowl() { myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) xscale(1, p=arc(angle=[180,360],d = wB[i], $fn = 80))]; skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); } jon_bondy wrote > Still flailing around... > > This works fine: > > left_half(planar = true) circle(1); > > This > > left_half(planar = true, circle(1)); > > fails with > > WARNING: vector*matrix requires vector length to match matrix row count > (3 != 100) in file > C:/Users/jon/Documents/OpenSCAD/libraries/BOSL2/mutators.scad, line 139 > > And this > > module Bowl() { > myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; > myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) > xscale(1, p = left_half(planar = true, circle(d = wB[i], $fn = > 80)))]; > skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); > } > > fails with > > WARNING: Ignoring unknown function 'left_half' in file Spoon.scad, line > 134 > > Why is left_half() recognized as a function in the 2nd example, but not > in the 3rd? > > At some point, it may be easier for me to just explain what I'm trying > to do, rather than keep beating my head against this. > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by nophead
The documentation says that left_half() can be used as a function and
provides examples... On 1/2/2021 10:22 AM, nop head wrote: > left_half() must be a module in your first two examples. You can only > call a function in an expression, modules are statements. > _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Yes, but you didn't use it as a function. You used it as a module. There
are in fact no examples in the manual of using it as a function. Here's an example: include <BOSL2/std.scad> include <BOSL2/polyhedra.scad> dodecahedron = regular_polyhedron_info("vnf","dodecahedron",side=10); // Get something to use as input half_dodec = left_half(dodecahedron); vnf_wireframe(half_dodec,$fn=32,r=0.2); Note that based on your previous post, your BOSL2 is probably older than the introduction of the functional form of left_half. Also note that the above code actually gives the right half. Like I said: the function version is buggy. jon_bondy wrote > The documentation says that left_half() can be used as a function and > provides examples... > > On 1/2/2021 10:22 AM, nop head wrote: >> left_half() must be a module in your first two examples. You can only >> call a function in an expression, modules are statements. >> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by adrianv
"you don't understand what's really going on"
Yes. Totally. Thank you for taking so much time to explain things to me (and, I hope, to others). The idea that a given named entity ("circle") behaves differently in different contexts (and in fact comes from the language intrinsics in one case and from a library in another), and produces different output in different contexts is powerful, but also confusing. At least to me. If I had written the library, I would have created circleM() for the module and circleF() for the function, for my own sanity. I grew up with Pascal, with strong type checking, so I never encountered these puns during my career. I understand that others in the OpenSCAD community see things differently. For example, at one point you say "You've used the core circle module". If you say so. In a previous email you mentioned "xscale(value,p=circle(...));" where that circle() came from BOSL2. One important issue for me is that I have no way of knowing which circle() I am using. For example, there is no way to query the compiler or the IDE to see how it resolved those characters, is there? Your familiarity with the library and the underlying issues allows you to see the code with more clarity than I do. This may be an issue for newbies, depending on the path they took to arrive at OpenSCAD. It seems that there is no easy way to look at an entity and know whether it emits geometry or lists-of-points. Sure, you can look it up in the documentation (if you can be SURE that the entity in question came from that library), but I said "easy". So maybe circleG() and circleP() for geometry and points. And, no, I am not implying that I believe that any of these entities will be renamed for my benefit. I am merely explaining how I see things. In some languages (Pascal), an entity is either a function or a procedure (module). In others (C, I believe), a function can be used as a procedure (discarding the returned result) so there are no procedures/modules. So I was not expecting x = fred() to behave differently than fred() although I did expect fred(x, p=joe) to behave differently, because of the "p" parameter name. It seems that if one can keep in the company of functions, then one can always have lists-of-points. I need to create a shape like a "C". One thought was to take a circle, offset it larger, subtract the original from the larger to get a washer, and then take half of that object. The problem is that the offset (and maybe difference) operators are modules, so once I leave the list-of-points domain, I am out of luck. Maybe one useful addition to the documentation (for me) would be a separate list of entities that emit lists-of-points. Then I would take that list as a the palette from which I would choose operations in my quest for the "C" shape. You say "It looks like your version of BOSL2 predates the existence of the functional form of left_half because in your example below you show an error, "unknown function left_half"." But in fact left_half() is present, because, as I said left_half(planar = true) circle(1); works fine. Confusing. This may well be a bug. So. I am trying to design a configurable spoon. The code in question is trying to create the bowl of the spoon. I started off trying to use semi-circular shapes with a parametrized thickness and diameter, but could not figure out how to generate those shapes as lists-of-points. I assume that eventually I will refine the shape a bit. Thanks, again, for being so helpful Jon On 1/2/2021 11:02 AM, adrianv wrote: > I have this feeling that you're experimenting with different variations but > that you don't understand what's really going on. Revar is trying to write > tutorials now for BOSL2, and it would be good if we could understand why you > don't understand and what to say to help you (and others) understand better. > The tutorials are here: https://github.com/revarbat/BOSL2/wiki/Tutorials > and maybe the Paths and Regions tutorial would help? > > OpenSCAD has modules that create geometry and other modules that operate on > geometry. In core OpenSCAD if you invoke circle() it creates 2d geometry. > If you give it to linear_extrude as a child then you get a cylinder. > > It is impossible to get the points out of geometry, so doing more > interesting manipulations requires that we work in a different way. To this > end, BOSL2 provides function versions of the core geometry modules. They > look the same, but what happens depends on context. So with BOSL2 loaded, > circle() will sometimes make geometry (in a module context) and sometimes > produce a "path" (in a function context). A path is BOSL2 term for an > ordered list of points. Operating on paths requires that you use functions, > not modules. So this is the difference between > newpath=xscale(factor,p=some_path); and xscale(factor) some_geomety(); The > former version is passing a path (point list) to a function and getting a > new path out. The latter is generating geometry in a module and passing it > as a child to xscale, resulting finally in geometry as the result. If you > run the first one you won't see anything because no geometry has yet been > created. You need to convert the output, newpath, into geometry, perhaps > with polygon(newpath); > > So let's take a look at what you're doing below: > > left_half(planar=true) circle(1); > > You've used the core circle module to create geometry and you're giving it > as a child to the left_half module which shows just the left part. > > left_half(planar=true, circle(1)); > > You're invoking the module left_half. We know it's a module because you > didn't assign a return value to something. The circle(1) invocation is the > function version of circle, so it produces a path. So you're invoking the > module with planar=true and a list of points. But if you check the manual, > you'll see that the module version does not accept a path, only two scalars. > So you've given invalid input. The error message need to be improved. > > If you change it to > > lcirc=left_half(....); > > then you will get the functional form. However, the functional form of the > "half" operators was added recently and appears to be seriously buggy. So > for now....don't try to use it. It looks like your version of BOSL2 > predates the existence of the functional form of left_half because in your > example below you show an error, "unknown function left_half". > > I think maybe your code would do what you want if you use arc() instead of > circle(), since arc() can create a half circle directly. > > Here's your code with arc inserted. You didn't define wB so I'm not sure > what you're after. You might want to explain what you're trying to do as > there might possibly be a completely different approach. > > module Bowl() { > myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; > myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) > xscale(1, p=arc(angle=[180,360],d = wB[i], $fn = 80))]; > skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); > } > > > > > > jon_bondy wrote >> Still flailing around... >> >> This works fine: >> >> left_half(planar = true) circle(1); >> >> This >> >> left_half(planar = true, circle(1)); >> >> fails with >> >> WARNING: vector*matrix requires vector length to match matrix row count >> (3 != 100) in file >> C:/Users/jon/Documents/OpenSCAD/libraries/BOSL2/mutators.scad, line 139 >> >> And this >> >> module Bowl() { >> myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; >> myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) >> xscale(1, p = left_half(planar = true, circle(d = wB[i], $fn = >> 80)))]; >> skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> } >> >> fails with >> >> WARNING: Ignoring unknown function 'left_half' in file Spoon.scad, line >> 134 >> >> Why is left_half() recognized as a function in the 2nd example, but not >> in the 3rd? >> >> At some point, it may be easier for me to just explain what I'm trying >> to do, rather than keep beating my head against this. >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
There is never any ambiguity whether you are using a function or a module even if they have the same name because functions can only be used in expressions and modules can only be used in statements. fred() circle(); // Must be a module operating on geometry. x = fred(circle()); // Fred must be a function and so must circle, functions cannot return geometry but that can return lists of points representing geometry, fred(circle()); // Fred must be a module and circle must be a function. On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 17:13, jon <[hidden email]> wrote: "you don't understand what's really going on" _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by adrianv
If I go here https://github.com/revarbat/BOSL2/wiki/mutators.scad#left_half I see this
left_half()Type: Function/Module Usage: as module
Usage: as function
No wonder I thought that you could use it as a function without assigning it to anything. Jon
On 1/2/2021 11:44 AM, adrianv wrote:
Yes, but you didn't use it as a function. You used it as a module. There are in fact no examples in the manual of using it as a function. Here's an example: include <BOSL2/std.scad> include <BOSL2/polyhedra.scad> dodecahedron = regular_polyhedron_info("vnf","dodecahedron",side=10); // Get something to use as input half_dodec = left_half(dodecahedron); vnf_wireframe(half_dodec,$fn=32,r=0.2); Note that based on your previous post, your BOSL2 is probably older than the introduction of the functional form of left_half. Also note that the above code actually gives the right half. Like I said: the function version is buggy. jon_bondy wroteThe documentation says that left_half() can be used as a function and provides examples... On 1/2/2021 10:22 AM, nop head wrote:left_half() must be a module in your first two examples. You can only call a function in an expression, modules are statements. _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Library documentation assumes that you know the OpenSCAD language. On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 17:33, jon <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Understood, nop head, but the usage as a function could have been
more like "x = left_half(<x>, <x>, path)". More
clarity at a modest cost. :) On 1/2/2021 12:37 PM, nop head wrote:
_______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by jon_bondy
The difference between functions and modules is syntactic. If you write
return_value = foo(...); then it means foo() is a function. If you write foo(...); or foo(...) something_else(); then it means foo() is a module. It actually much more important to understand the module-function distinction than to know what's core OpenSCAD and what's a BOSL2 extension. Core OpenSCAD only supplies modules for manipulating your geometry. BOSL2 provides matching functions. And BOSL2, when it provides an extension very often provides it as both a module and function. It would be annoying to have to give two names to almost every module in the library. So any time you use or assign a return value it's a function. In these examples foo is a function: return = foo(...); polygon(foo(...)); // return value is input argument to polygon x=somefunction(arg1,foo(...),arg2,...); If you do not assign a return value then it's a module. In all of these examples foo is a module. foo(...); linear_extrude(..) foo(...); difference() { cube(...); foo(...);} So yes, you do have a way of knowing whether the circle module or circle function is used: examine the syntax of your code and see if it indicates that circle is a module or a function in that context. As I said, it's not so important whether something is core OpenSCAD or not. There's no way that I know of to figure that out. And it's possible for libraries to redefine core modules. BOSL2 does this, but it's supposed to be transparent. Regarding left_half, the module form has been in BOSL2 for a long time, but the function form was just contributed by somebody recently and, as I said, is buggy. You previously posted an example error that said "left_half" was an unknown function. So I expect that you'll find: left_half() circle(1); works because the module is defined, but x=left_half(path3d(circle(1)); fails because you don't have the function in your BOSL2 version. Note I forced the circle to 3d because left_half fails on 2d inputs right now. Almost every module in BOSL2 has a function form, so a list of "everything that emits points" doesn't seem particularly useful. Hmmm. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to write "error catcher" functions for the cases that don't that print a message like "<foo> is only available as a module but you used it in a function context". I agree with you that the documentation should show functions used in a function context. Since you want to use skin you need to stay in the domain of paths, so you need to use functions, as you realized, which operate on paths (point lists). You can get your point list any way you want. You can write a loop and construct it with sin and cos or other mathematical functions. I would imagine that using beziers might be desirable to get different spoon shapes. But for the most basic concept of a spoon as an arc, the way to do it is to construct the top side of the spoon and the bottom side of the spoon and then concat them together. include <BOSL2/std.scad> $fn=64; bottom = arc(angle=[210,330], d=20); top = offset(bottom, r=1); shape = concat(top,reverse(bottom)); polygon(shape); Note that the top and bottom both traverse the arc in the same direction, so you have to reverse one of the lists so that the concatenated list goes in the right order. jon_bondy wrote > "you don't understand what's really going on" > > Yes. Totally. > > Thank you for taking so much time to explain things to me (and, I hope, > to others). > > > The idea that a given named entity ("circle") behaves differently in > different contexts (and in fact comes from the language intrinsics in > one case and from a library in another), and produces different output > in different contexts is powerful, but also confusing. At least to me. > If I had written the library, I would have created circleM() for the > module and circleF() for the function, for my own sanity. I grew up > with Pascal, with strong type checking, so I never encountered these > puns during my career. I understand that others in the OpenSCAD > community see things differently. > > For example, at one point you say "You've used the core circle module". > If you say so. In a previous email you mentioned > "xscale(value,p=circle(...));" where that circle() came from BOSL2. One > important issue for me is that I have no way of knowing which circle() I > am using. For example, there is no way to query the compiler or the IDE > to see how it resolved those characters, is there? Your familiarity > with the library and the underlying issues allows you to see the code > with more clarity than I do. This may be an issue for newbies, > depending on the path they took to arrive at OpenSCAD. > > It seems that there is no easy way to look at an entity and know whether > it emits geometry or lists-of-points. Sure, you can look it up in the > documentation (if you can be SURE that the entity in question came from > that library), but I said "easy". So maybe circleG() and circleP() for > geometry and points. > > And, no, I am not implying that I believe that any of these entities > will be renamed for my benefit. I am merely explaining how I see things. > > In some languages (Pascal), an entity is either a function or a > procedure (module). In others (C, I believe), a function can be used as > a procedure (discarding the returned result) so there are no > procedures/modules. So I was not expecting > > x = fred() > > to behave differently than > > fred() > > although I did expect > > fred(x, p=joe) > > to behave differently, because of the "p" parameter name. > > It seems that if one can keep in the company of functions, then one can > always have lists-of-points. I need to create a shape like a "C". One > thought was to take a circle, offset it larger, subtract the original > from the larger to get a washer, and then take half of that object. The > problem is that the offset (and maybe difference) operators are modules, > so once I leave the list-of-points domain, I am out of luck. > > Maybe one useful addition to the documentation (for me) would be a > separate list of entities that emit lists-of-points. Then I would take > that list as a the palette from which I would choose operations in my > quest for the "C" shape. > > You say "It looks like your version of BOSL2 predates the existence of > the functional form of left_half because in your example below you show > an error, "unknown function left_half"." But in fact left_half() is > present, because, as I said > > left_half(planar = true) circle(1); > > works fine. Confusing. This may well be a bug. > > > So. I am trying to design a configurable spoon. The code in question > is trying to create the bowl of the spoon. I started off trying to use > semi-circular shapes with a parametrized thickness and diameter, but > could not figure out how to generate those shapes as lists-of-points. I > assume that eventually I will refine the shape a bit. > > Thanks, again, for being so helpful > > Jon > > > On 1/2/2021 11:02 AM, adrianv wrote: >> I have this feeling that you're experimenting with different variations >> but >> that you don't understand what's really going on. Revar is trying to >> write >> tutorials now for BOSL2, and it would be good if we could understand why >> you >> don't understand and what to say to help you (and others) understand >> better. >> The tutorials are here: https://github.com/revarbat/BOSL2/wiki/Tutorials >> and maybe the Paths and Regions tutorial would help? >> >> OpenSCAD has modules that create geometry and other modules that operate >> on >> geometry. In core OpenSCAD if you invoke circle() it creates 2d >> geometry. >> If you give it to linear_extrude as a child then you get a cylinder. >> >> It is impossible to get the points out of geometry, so doing more >> interesting manipulations requires that we work in a different way. To >> this >> end, BOSL2 provides function versions of the core geometry modules. They >> look the same, but what happens depends on context. So with BOSL2 >> loaded, >> circle() will sometimes make geometry (in a module context) and sometimes >> produce a "path" (in a function context). A path is BOSL2 term for an >> ordered list of points. Operating on paths requires that you use >> functions, >> not modules. So this is the difference between >> newpath=xscale(factor,p=some_path); and xscale(factor) some_geomety(); >> The >> former version is passing a path (point list) to a function and getting a >> new path out. The latter is generating geometry in a module and passing >> it >> as a child to xscale, resulting finally in geometry as the result. If >> you >> run the first one you won't see anything because no geometry has yet been >> created. You need to convert the output, newpath, into geometry, perhaps >> with polygon(newpath); >> >> So let's take a look at what you're doing below: >> >> left_half(planar=true) circle(1); >> >> You've used the core circle module to create geometry and you're giving >> it >> as a child to the left_half module which shows just the left part. >> >> left_half(planar=true, circle(1)); >> >> You're invoking the module left_half. We know it's a module because you >> didn't assign a return value to something. The circle(1) invocation is >> the >> function version of circle, so it produces a path. So you're invoking >> the >> module with planar=true and a list of points. But if you check the >> manual, >> you'll see that the module version does not accept a path, only two >> scalars. >> So you've given invalid input. The error message need to be improved. >> >> If you change it to >> >> lcirc=left_half(....); >> >> then you will get the functional form. However, the functional form of >> the >> "half" operators was added recently and appears to be seriously buggy. >> So >> for now....don't try to use it. It looks like your version of BOSL2 >> predates the existence of the functional form of left_half because in >> your >> example below you show an error, "unknown function left_half". >> >> I think maybe your code would do what you want if you use arc() instead >> of >> circle(), since arc() can create a half circle directly. >> >> Here's your code with arc inserted. You didn't define wB so I'm not sure >> what you're after. You might want to explain what you're trying to do as >> there might possibly be a completely different approach. >> >> module Bowl() { >> myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; >> myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) >> xscale(1, p=arc(angle=[180,360],d = wB[i], $fn = 80))]; >> skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); >> } >> >> >> >> >> >> jon_bondy wrote >>> Still flailing around... >>> >>> This works fine: >>> >>> left_half(planar = true) circle(1); >>> >>> This >>> >>> left_half(planar = true, circle(1)); >>> >>> fails with >>> >>> WARNING: vector*matrix requires vector length to match matrix row count >>> (3 != 100) in file >>> C:/Users/jon/Documents/OpenSCAD/libraries/BOSL2/mutators.scad, line 139 >>> >>> And this >>> >>> module Bowl() { >>> myZB = [for (i=[0:14]) -5*i]; >>> myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) >>> xscale(1, p = left_half(planar = true, circle(d = wB[i], $fn = >>> 80)))]; >>> skin(myProfsB, z=myZB, slices=10, method="reindex"); >>> } >>> >>> fails with >>> >>> WARNING: Ignoring unknown function 'left_half' in file Spoon.scad, line >>> 134 >>> >>> Why is left_half() recognized as a function in the 2nd example, but not >>> in the 3rd? >>> >>> At some point, it may be easier for me to just explain what I'm trying >>> to do, rather than keep beating my head against this. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In the code you provided, below, you use all functions except at the very end:
$fn=64; bottom = arc(angle=[210,330], d=20); top = offset(bottom, r=1); shape = concat(top,reverse(bottom)); polygon(shape); the result is that this fails because polygon() is not a function myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) xscale(1, polygon(concat(offset(bottom, r=1), reverse(arc(angle=[210,330], d=wB[i])))))]; Any hints? _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
If you want to see something in OpenSCAD you have to eventually run a module
that creates geometry. In my example below I create the shape and then I show it with polygon, which converts the point list into something you can view. If you want to do something else with the point list then you shouldn't invoke polygon on it, because polygon turns the point list into geometry. The point list, shape, is what you were after. In your example below remove the reference to polygon and change your second arg to xscale to say p= to ensure it works in other BOSL2 versions. jon_bondy wrote > In the code you provided, below, you use all functions except at the very > end: > > $fn=64; > > bottom = arc(angle=[210,330], d=20); > top = offset(bottom, r=1); > shape = concat(top,reverse(bottom)); > polygon(shape); > > the result is that this fails because polygon() is not a function > > myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) > xscale(1, polygon(concat(offset(bottom, r=1), > reverse(arc(angle=[210,330], d=wB[i])))))]; > > Any hints? > > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > Discuss@.openscad > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org -- Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
LOL. As soon as I sent that to you, I took a walk, and almost
immediately thought "the polygon() was just there to reveal the geometry". Thanks! On 1/2/2021 2:30 PM, adrianv wrote: > If you want to see something in OpenSCAD you have to eventually run a module > that creates geometry. In my example below I create the shape and then I > show it with polygon, which converts the point list into something you can > view. If you want to do something else with the point list then you > shouldn't invoke polygon on it, because polygon turns the point list into > geometry. The point list, shape, is what you were after. > > In your example below remove the reference to polygon and change your second > arg to xscale to say p= to ensure it works in other BOSL2 versions. > > > > jon_bondy wrote >> In the code you provided, below, you use all functions except at the very >> end: >> >> $fn=64; >> >> bottom = arc(angle=[210,330], d=20); >> top = offset(bottom, r=1); >> shape = concat(top,reverse(bottom)); >> polygon(shape); >> >> the result is that this fails because polygon() is not a function >> >> myProfsB = [for (i=[0:14]) >> xscale(1, polygon(concat(offset(bottom, r=1), >> reverse(arc(angle=[210,330], d=wB[i])))))]; >> >> Any hints? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OpenSCAD mailing list >> Discuss@.openscad >> http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.openscad.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > OpenSCAD mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org > _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
In reply to this post by adrianv
I tried to write a function that returns a list-of-points, but I get
this error
ERROR: Assertion '(len(bad) == 0)' failed: "Profiles [1] are not a paths or have length less than 3", in file C:/Users/jon/Documents/OpenSCAD/libraries/BOSL2/skin.scad, line 366 TRACE: called by 'skin' in file C:/Users/jon/Documents/OpenSCAD/libraries/BOSL2/skin.scad, line 353 TRACE: called by 'skin' in file
Skin Test.scad, line 14 with this code: include <BOSL2/std.scad> include <BOSL2/skin.scad> od = 101.75; id = od - 2 * 3.2; th = 3; function Semi() = difference( circle(d = id - 3*th), // cut out just over 1/2 move([-990, -500], square(1000))); skin( [square([2,.2], center=true), Semi()], z=[0,3], slices=40,sampling="length",method="reindex"); _______________________________________________ OpenSCAD mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.openscad.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.openscad.org |
Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |