No confidence petition in the board and campaign for removal

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]Presumably if they disagree with you?[/quote]

Alot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

[/quote]So in 500 years time we will all remember the far-sighted visionary Canary Cherub who will stand out as one of the great figures of the 21st Century! [/quote]

Er....No

The point is the minority aren''t always wrong. Just because 17k fans renewed season tickets doesn''t mean they''re right about the club.

[/quote]Fair enough - the minority are right against overwhelming majorities on a very few occasions. But for every Columbus there are millions of Canary Cherubs!

[pete_norw 0]

[quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

[quote user="First Wizard"]If the 17 thousand fans who renewed their ST, had just gone for a membership instead, that would have sent a very clear signal to the board.[/quote]

Yes it would such as, ''''sadly we can''t get any players as ST''s didn''t sell as well as anticipated so we don''t have the funds to go towards the wage bill for players''''.  Brilliant, why didn''t I think of that lol.

[/quote]

Or alternatively it might make them realise they can''t take the fans for granted any more.

It might also put pressure on them to offer the club for sale on terms that investors might realistically be prepared to meet

Continuing to renew in such numbers so far in advance is like an overprotective mother that goes on stuffing her child with junk food even though it''s morbidly obese. 

 

[/quote]

Yes of course, we could always go and get players from Telford, Redditch, Tamworth, Kidderminster, end up lower than Accrington Stanley,  Its a good job we Don''t have Wiz and co sat in the board room, Yes I want shot of the board just as much as Wiz does, but buying my S T  don''t mean I love Delia, but I do love my club,and wear my colours with pride,perhaps the high volume of season tickets might just help to find investors.

[kdncfc 0]

Don''t see how anyone can say that the minority want the board removed, I''d say it''s by far the majority but not many seem prepared to do anything about it.

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Excellent points Bobert, the main gripe I have with the current board of directors is as you have described. Why won''t they ''allow'' anyone who could help with good business sense onboard? I have asked this question and just got a glib answer saying they welcome anyone who can help. Words however not backed up with action. Five people with so much power and control and where have they got us? Changes have to come, but sadly I don''t think even relegation would force the current five into making any. They have convinced themselves they have only made TWO mistakes in all their time in control (Roeder and Grant) and that they are all experienced owners/directors of a football club, so that''s alright then isn''t it. Also, of course, we get the stock answers/statements from Doncaster saying we can''t compete with other clubs in the Championship as we don''t have wealthy benefactors. Again and again the stumbling block for me is the fact that two people own 62% of the shares and therefore as good as have total control. What has to happen to get them to change their thinking I don''t really know Bobert. Like you I believe there are people out there who could help the club produce some coherent plans and thinking for going forwards, but if you don''t look, you don''t find.[/quote]

Well Gazza you and I could always write our cvs and stand for election to the Board at the next AGM. Bet that would put a cat amongst the pigeons! Be interesting if we got elected on a show of hands and then a ballot was called for and we lost. Poor old Delia would have some explaining to do then ........................I nearly won a debate on banning fishing in a local pond once!!

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="Bobert"]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Excellent points Bobert, the main gripe I have with the current board of directors is as you have described. Why won''t they ''allow'' anyone who could help with good business sense onboard? I have asked this question and just got a glib answer saying they welcome anyone who can help. Words however not backed up with action. Five people with so much power and control and where have they got us? Changes have to come, but sadly I don''t think even relegation would force the current five into making any. They have convinced themselves they have only made TWO mistakes in all their time in control (Roeder and Grant) and that they are all experienced owners/directors of a football club, so that''s alright then isn''t it. Also, of course, we get the stock answers/statements from Doncaster saying we can''t compete with other clubs in the Championship as we don''t have wealthy benefactors. Again and again the stumbling block for me is the fact that two people own 62% of the shares and therefore as good as have total control. What has to happen to get them to change their thinking I don''t really know Bobert. Like you I believe there are people out there who could help the club produce some coherent plans and thinking for going forwards, but if you don''t look, you don''t find.[/quote]

Well Gazza you and I could always write our cvs and stand for election to the Board at the next AGM. Bet that would put a cat amongst the pigeons! Be interesting if we got elected on a show of hands and then a ballot was called for and we lost. Poor old Delia would have some explaining to do then ........................I nearly won a debate on banning fishing in a local pond once!!

[/quote]

Bobert, as you don`t seem to have a problem with the points Gtg makes in her excellent post, can you accept that fan pressure on the board is now appropriate if some kind of change is to happen?  As she points out, they have only admitted to two mistakes and Munby even stated at the AGM that their policies had been successful over the last 12 years.

Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?[/quote]Are you a passionate fan Mr Carrow? How and when do you suggest we perform "our duty"? 

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Bobert"]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Excellent points Bobert, the main gripe I have with the current board of directors is as you have described. Why won''t they ''allow'' anyone who could help with good business sense onboard? I have asked this question and just got a glib answer saying they welcome anyone who can help. Words however not backed up with action. Five people with so much power and control and where have they got us? Changes have to come, but sadly I don''t think even relegation would force the current five into making any. They have convinced themselves they have only made TWO mistakes in all their time in control (Roeder and Grant) and that they are all experienced owners/directors of a football club, so that''s alright then isn''t it. Also, of course, we get the stock answers/statements from Doncaster saying we can''t compete with other clubs in the Championship as we don''t have wealthy benefactors. Again and again the stumbling block for me is the fact that two people own 62% of the shares and therefore as good as have total control. What has to happen to get them to change their thinking I don''t really know Bobert. Like you I believe there are people out there who could help the club produce some coherent plans and thinking for going forwards, but if you don''t look, you don''t find.[/quote]

Well Gazza you and I could always write our cvs and stand for election to the Board at the next AGM. Bet that would put a cat amongst the pigeons! Be interesting if we got elected on a show of hands and then a ballot was called for and we lost. Poor old Delia would have some explaining to do then ........................I nearly won a debate on banning fishing in a local pond once!!

[/quote]

Bobert, as you don`t seem to have a problem with the points Gtg makes in her excellent post, can you accept that fan pressure on the board is now appropriate if some kind of change is to happen?  As she points out, they have only admitted to two mistakes and Munby even stated at the AGM that their policies had been successful over the last 12 years.

 

Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?

[/quote]

Mr C I will agree that a point of view needs to be put to Delia but it is not a case for ranting and chanting. I believe it is necessary to have a reasoned approach. I have met Delia and MWJ two or three times and they are nice inteligent people who seem slightly out of their depth when it comes to running a football club.

 I was talking to a supporter for 50 years tonight and I asked him:

" If Delia only had 30% of the shares how many directors do you think we should have to run the club?"

His answer was eight and I tend to agree with him.

Why don''t we find three "fans" with impeccable qualifications, happy to help run the club for nothing and have a meeting with Delia and her husband. with a view to getting the three elected to the Board. They need to be specialists in a particular field where the club needs the expertise.

Roger Munby is an expert in Marketing and his input has been very successful. We may need an expert in fund raising, an expert in fan relationships, an expert in managing managers, whatever. We need to sit down and work out who and what the club needs in people terms and put the case up to Delia. After all she is in her late sixties age wise and I am sure she would appreciate help.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Bobert, I saw your other thread on the same subject, but think this one has a better chance of receiving proper debate.

Personally if the said appointees have the relevant desires, skills and experience then I don''t care who they are, especially when it comes to where they come from. I don''t come from Norfolk and I care deeply about the club and always have done. Only Mr Foulger on the present board comes from Norfolk so that blows the keep it all local and a community club stuff out of the water. In reality it will have to be those with proven track records of something of value to add to the club - we are talking about additional thinking/business nous here rather than investment.

For me the board is well past its sell by date. I have noted IMO a few of their collective errors and what I think needs to be done, but sadly it all comes down to who can make things happen and more importantly if they (and frankly we really just mean Delia and Michael) want change. From what I have seen and heard I don''t think they do.

Mr Carrow, completely agree, the board need to know who feels they should make change/admit things are not going well/they will implement action/change. I, like you, attended the last AGM and heard the same thing. I am not advocating out and out protests, but think the board does need to realise that they do need to radically think about what comes next for Norwich City. Their ways are not working and if we carry on with the same old, same old (as in the past three/four years) eventually we are going to run out of luck/fans out of patience and lose much of what this club is about.

I still think the 62% shareholding gives Delia and Michael a false sense of security. If they feel untouchable (and unaccountable) then that in itself is a bad thing not only for them, but for the club.

Your friend was probably right regarding the numbers. We desperately need more on the board. Whatever the noises coming out of there, five people in charge of our club is a dangerously unhealthy number. Why did the Turners leave, and Skipper? Why has no one else been seen suitable as replacements?

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I didn''t realise Mr Carrow was at the AGM Gazza, I thought he was washing his hair (again)[8-)] You should have introduced us, it would''ve been nice to put a face to the name. I always introduce all my friends to you[;)]

I think fresh ideas would be good. I''m disappointed that Smith&Jones don''t seem able to come up with those idea''s. We need the ideas more than we need to hound out people who are still prepared to put large chunks of their personal wealth into the club.

I think they miss old Bazza who made way for the Turners who proved to be a poor substitute. Don''t get all misty eyed over him now though, when he supported Worthy he was the devil incarnate on here.

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I didn''t realise Mr Carrow was at the AGM Gazza, I thought he was washing his hair (again)[8-)] You should have introduced us, it would''ve been nice to put a face to the name. I always introduce all my friends to you[;)]

I think fresh ideas would be good. I''m disappointed that Smith&Jones don''t seem able to come up with those idea''s. We need the ideas more than we need to hound out people who are still prepared to put large chunks of their personal wealth into the club.

I think they miss old Bazza who made way for the Turners who proved to be a poor substitute. Don''t get all misty eyed over him now though, when he supported Worthy he was the devil incarnate on here.

[/quote]

I''ve got some ideas, but since they can''t lead and inspire the club I''m afraid they''ll have to pay me for them - and I don''t come cheap, so I guess that''s that, eh? 

OTBC

[gazzathegreat 0]

Nutty, I have never met Mr Carrow, so wouldn''t know who to introduce to you. I have a fair idea who he is as he sometimes acknowledges the excellent fanzines he helped produce in the past.

It''s not just disappointment though Nutty, it''s more than that. It smacks of either severe lack of effort or forethought to have at least thought about bringing new and better qualified people onto the board to enable indeed better and more logical decision making to take place.

I can''t say I miss any board member personally. I never met Mr Skipper, but he did have some relevant things to say when he left, but as in my previous post, we really have no idea why he left, likewise the Turners. If you, or anyone else for that matter is concerned with the rather small, narrow thinking or incestuous nature of the present board, then I think it''s only natural we ask questions as to why it''s got so small. At this moment I don''t think we have the answers.

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?[/quote]Are you a passionate fan Mr Carrow? How and when do you suggest we perform "our duty"? 

[/quote]

However many more times do we have to say it?  Vote with your feet as Mr Carrow has done.

 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"][quote user="Badger"][quote user="canary cherub "]

17,000 can be wrong I can assure you. 

[/quote]

Presumably if they disagree with you?
[/quote]

Alot of people said Columbus was wrong when he declared the earth was round....

[/quote]

It was common knowledge (certainly amongst astronomers and navigators) that the world was round at that time. Columbus just said it was smaller (more navigable) than previously thought.

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I didn''t realise Mr Carrow was at the AGM Gazza, I thought he was washing his hair (again)[8-)] You should have introduced us, it would''ve been nice to put a face to the name. I always introduce all my friends to you[;)]

I think fresh ideas would be good. I''m disappointed that Smith&Jones don''t seem able to come up with those idea''s. We need the ideas more than we need to hound out people who are still prepared to put large chunks of their personal wealth into the club.

I think they miss old Bazza who made way for the Turners who proved to be a poor substitute. Don''t get all misty eyed over him now though, when he supported Worthy he was the devil incarnate on here.

[/quote]

I''ve got some ideas, but since they can''t lead and inspire the club I''m afraid they''ll have to pay me for them - and I don''t come cheap, so I guess that''s that, eh? 

OTBC

[/quote]

You were born cheap.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?[/quote]Are you a passionate fan Mr Carrow? How and when do you suggest we perform "our duty"? [/quote]

However many more times do we have to say it?  Vote with your feet as Mr Carrow has done.

 

[/quote]Most of the real lunatics already have voted with their feet. Hence their frustration when they realised just how little impact it has had - which is why they have now turned on the fans that were so stupid as to not follow their lead.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Well Gazza, you could be right. But I don''t know much about running a football club. The club was on the up with people like Bazza and Worthy but then we began to slip and those two in particular seemed to pay the price. The slip now appears to have become a plunge into the abyss, seemingly accelerated by the people who replaced those who paid the price. We can only say what we see and obviously I see it differently to you. It seems strange that Bazza only had relevant things to say when he was gone. I reckon he probably always did.

 

 

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Bobert, I saw your other thread on the same subject, but think this one has a better chance of receiving proper debate. Personally if the said appointees have the relevant desires, skills and experience then I don''t care who they are, especially when it comes to where they come from. I don''t come from Norfolk and I care deeply about the club and always have done. Only Mr Foulger on the present board comes from Norfolk so that blows the keep it all local and a community club stuff out of the water. In reality it will have to be those with proven track records of something of value to add to the club - we are talking about additional thinking/business nous here rather than investment. For me the board is well past its sell by date. I have noted IMO a few of their collective errors and what I think needs to be done, but sadly it all comes down to who can make things happen and more importantly if they (and frankly we really just mean Delia and Michael) want change. From what I have seen and heard I don''t think they do. Mr Carrow, completely agree, the board need to know who feels they should make change/admit things are not going well/they will implement action/change. I, like you, attended the last AGM and heard the same thing. I am not advocating out and out protests, but think the board does need to realise that they do need to radically think about what comes next for Norwich City. Their ways are not working and if we carry on with the same old, same old (as in the past three/four years) eventually we are going to run out of luck/fans out of patience and lose much of what this club is about. I still think the 62% shareholding gives Delia and Michael a false sense of security. If they feel untouchable (and unaccountable) then that in itself is a bad thing not only for them, but for the club. Your friend was probably right regarding the numbers. We desperately need more on the board. Whatever the noises coming out of there, five people in charge of our club is a dangerously unhealthy number. Why did the Turners leave, and Skipper? Why has no one else been seen suitable as replacements?[/quote]

Well I have a pretty good idea why Barry Skipper was required to leave the Board and the Turners also and I suspect they were not replaced because Delia does not know who she can trust. She works hard, is successful and has a faith....there are not many like her who match all three catagories.

I honestly believe that if three or four of us came up with a strategic plan that was workable and if we met her and her husband and gained their confidence then it would be the best way forward for the shareholders, the fans and the club, It would have to be a plan that was also acceptable to the bank of course. Initially we need a finance man, a football man, an ideas man and a spin doctor. Are there guys out there willing to put their hands up and who experts in their fields?

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Well Bobert, we''ve got Mr Carrow or Tangie for the finance man. I much prefer Tangie but they both have a right downer on "our Deals" so that won''t work. Bucketman would be the best spin doctor in the house but he couldn''t work with Deals so that''s no good either. Football man??? Not on this board!

And I''ll call the bingo! [;)]

Sorry to be fippant Bobert because what you say makes perfect sense to me. You see the bigger picture. I just can''t go along with hounding the board out. Somebody has to replace them. I don''t agree with those who say someone replaced Chase so that was alright because this is a totally different kettle of fish. Times have changed I''m sorry to say. If Smith & Jones were hounded out of this club it could well have disastrous effects. So unless we know someone else who is willing to flash the cash at our great club the best chance of change is to do it in a way it embraces the two people who are prepared to put their money in.

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Nutty, re Barry Skipper, yes we had ONE season in the Premiership, but Skipper was here during the seasons when we didn''t do so well and all of them on the board made some rather strange decisions.

I confess I don''t know a thing about how to run a football club (in the finances sense) but we surely have a great example during the past few years on how not to run it. Change has to come, and what change that will be and to whom, we can only guess at this stage.

Whether we are relegated or not, the prospects for the next few years are not looking good, therefore it would seem logical to me for the board to look back at what they have done - both right and wrong - and make some serious plans as to what the next five years should bring. The fact they don''t make plans but live from day to day is for me the most frightening aspect of their tenure. They appear clueless, of course they may not be, but they certainly don''t give the impression that they are sure what to do next, as stated by themselves at the AGM.

As for what Skipper has to say, well I am sure his opinions might have differed from others on the board, likewise the Turners. In the end both parties have left. We can draw our own conclusions there can''t we.

[gazzathegreat 0]

I totally agree with essence of your final paragraph Bobert. I suggest you email it or make it known to the board. If the club have so many supporters then it stands to reason some of them have the credentials to move the club forward. Off the top of my head I can think of three people I know who work as Directors of Finance for various companies and I am sure I am not alone. We desperately need a football man, and I don''t mean those who have previously advised on managerial appointments. We need to hear far more from the Football Trust also. Spin Doctor? Not sure, I think Neil Doncaster has probably made more negative inroads than positive at the club and think it will be a good while before supporters in general would welcome another like him. The rest fine.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

Ah ha!!!

The keyboard problem solvers are seeking to take over from the keyboard warriors. The voices of reason.

Better grammar, higher moral tone, considered arguments, stating the obvious in nice sentences rather than expressive words or phrases. Nice.

Good luck lads and lassies.

Forwards ever, backwards never!

[C]

OTBC

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]Do the clubs passionate fans not have a duty to let them know that their performance is simply not good enough?[/quote]Are you a passionate fan Mr Carrow? How and when do you suggest we perform "our duty"? 

[/quote]

Now just why is it Lappy that  I am so sure that you and Deals would make a lovely pair?

Darn, it''ll come to me soon.

OTBC